Did P & P conspire against Elvis?

[Graceland Gardener]

Did Parker & Priscilla conspire against Elvis?

note the odd timing:

1961 - Elvis is so self-confident about his popularity and touring potential...... but Priscilla suddenly calls/writes to distract him, seduce him.

1963 - Priscilla, at Graceland, is a live-in.....spy for Parker?

1967 - Elvis hates film career, maybe wants new mgmt.....
they conspire to arrange the wedding! Get married now!

1971-72 - Elvis is so self-confident about his popularity and touring potential..... but suddenly she walks out on him, ruining marriage and Elvis gets distracted and depressed. (Rot sets in)



1980s - She and Parker conspire to merchandise Elvis stuff out the wazoo. She takes exclusive Parker 101 course on Tackiness and laughs all the way to the bank.


--- at pivotal moments when Elvis might've realized he didn't need/didn't want his old oppressive sneaky carny mgmt...(1970s especially)
she does something to detour Elvis' plans and knock him off kilter.
To ruin his momentum. Even embarass him, humiliate him.

Coincidence? Or planned?

[TJ]

Did Parker & Priscilla conspire against Elvis?

note the odd timing:

1961 - Elvis is so self-confident about his popularity and touring potential...... but Priscilla suddenly calls/writes to distract him, seduce him.

Do we know that she called first? It seems the ball was in Elvis' court and he was happy to extend the relationship. Besides, in what way was that a distraction to him touring?

1963 - Priscilla, at Graceland, is a live-in.....spy for Parker?

Based on what evidence? Esposito is known to have been a spy for the Colonel, but I've not heard any evidence to suggest Priscilla was.

1967 - Elvis hates film career, maybe wants new mgmt.....they conspire to arrange the wedding! Get married now!

What does him getting married have to do with his thoughts on new management or him hating his film career? If anything, his career began to turnaround just after the marriage, with better studio recordings and the tv special.

1972 - Elvis is so self-confident about his popularity and touring potential..... but suddenly she walks out on him, ruining marriage and Elvis gets distracted and depressed. (Rot sets in to a degree)

I think that's got more to do with Elvis' serial cheating and absence from her life than a plot to undermine Elvis' confidence and keep him shackled to the Colonel.

1980s - She and Parker conspire to merchandise Elvis stuff out the wazoo. She takes exclusive Parker 101 course on Tackiness.

No excuse for the crap that has been marketed with Elvis' name.

--- at pivotal moments when Elvis might've realized he didn't need/didn't want his old carny mgmt...('72 especially)
she does something to detour Elvis' plans and knock him off kilter. To ruin his momentum.

Coincidence? Or planned?

Well you can select any dates and come up with the same argument. Had they married in 1965, you could have made the same point about the movie career. Had she left him in 1970, the point about touring potential and popularity would still stand.

I don't buy into any of it.

[Simon1]

Don't know exactly what to make of this GG. I don't particularly like the woman either but are you serious with this???

[Graceland Gardener]

just observations.

just coincidence. That's all.

She wasn't a tool for Parker to control Elvis.

or was she?




- plus who's idea was it to name the baby..."Marie" after Mrs. Parker?


this thread.......
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19013
a topic about how she allows Elvis Inc. to do stuff that would make Parker proud.

[Silver]

GG - in this case, I kind of agree with you. P & P and the other colonel (B). I have also felt this pattern. Won't go into detail because I know it never convinces anyone if they disagree!!

[Graceland Gardener]

Thanks Sue. See, there is a "pattern"

Just when Elvis was on top of the world and could readily strike out on his own
(1961, 1972 for example)
something soap opera happened in his personal life to knock the wind out of his sails.
- and she did it.
But why??????

the hurry-get-married-and-start-a-family thing
"You better marry that girl soon or word gets out she lives with you in sin!"
wedded bliss suddenly happened when Elvis was annoyed with Hollywood, annoyed with soundtracks, and who wanted him to stay in that movie rut and not rock the boat....Parker.


Parker had alot to gain and selfishly protect by Elvis being distracted
and lo, he was, by a seducing little armybase lolita, and later, distracted with the drama of separation and divorce.

Maybe she wasn't a willing tool - it's a case of Parker being lucky.

When Elvis was at his lowest of lows...she wants a wedding.
When he's at his highest of highs....she walks out.

coincidence.

[Silver]

Oh, but I think she was a willing tool. Who wouldn't want to be Mrs. Elvis Presley? Then you could have ANYTHING your little heart desired!! Even if you got divorced and refused to give up the Presley name??

[TJ]

I don't think she was a tool, willing or otherwise. This has the makings of a quite ludicrous conspiracy theory. Elvis was ultimately the architect of his own downfall through ridiculous compliance with the Colonel's decisions, a wandering eye that ensured he'd never settle down and have a fulfilling home life in the long term, and an addiction to various prescribed meds.

The 1961 part of the theory is particularly absurd. Elvis fell for a girl and had her come and live with him. If that in itself signifies that a career downturn will follow, the same could be said of any relationship. It's like saying that Elvis would only have made better films and toured if single. Bizarre!

[Rob]

I don't think she was a tool, willing or otherwise. This has the makings of a quite ludicrous conspiracy theory.

I too, think that it is nonsense. However, don't be too harsh on GG. I mean, even Sherlock Holmes had to start somewhere.

[Graceland Gardener]

Elvis fell for a girl and had her come and live with him. If that in itself signifies that a career downturn will follow, the same could be said of any relationship. It's like saying that Elvis would only have made better films and toured if single. Bizarre!

She jinxed him. She jinxed the **** out of him.

Priscilla was not his "good luck charm"

She moving in at G'land coincides with the era of sh*tty songs and dumb films, and dismal sales figures, and the failure to achieve a US #1 single - none in '63, 64, 65, 67, 68....

no teenage piece of *** is worth that career slump.


And her leaving him in '72 to "go find her feminist self" blows chunks. Who cares. Live at G'land and shut up.

the mystery is:
did Col. Parker have a role in the timing of her beguiles and betrayals of Elvis?

[TJ]

Elvis fell for a girl and had her come and live with him. If that in itself signifies that a career downturn will follow, the same could be said of any relationship. It's like saying that Elvis would only have made better films and toured if single. Bizarre!

She jinxed him. She jinxed the **** out of him.

Priscilla was not his "good luck charm"

She moving in at G'land coincides with the era of sh*tty songs and dumb films, and dismal sales figures, and the failure to achieve a US #1 single - none in '63, 64, 65, 67, 68....

no teenage piece of *** is worth that career slump.


And her leaving him in '72 to "go find her feminist self" blows chunks. Who cares. Live at G'land and shut up.

the mystery is:
did Col. Parker have a role in the timing of her beguiles and betrayals of Elvis?

Are you serious? She jinxed him? What say did she have in his movie career or whether or not he stood up to the Colonel and demanded better scripts? She was a teenage girl whose job was to keep the home fires burning while he was off having his fun with other women in Hollywood. Her role in any career choices that Elvis did and didn't make was nil. As for her leaving him, that's hardly a surprise really. Elvis was a terrible husband and you can only push a woman so far before losing her. I'm not some huge Priscilla fan, but to suggest that she was responsible for every career failing and unfulfilled ambition that Elvis had is almost comical. I'm starting to think you are in fact joking to get a response.

[Promocollector]

GG

You're talking out through your a## again!! but whats new!! The only conspiracy going on here is how you are conspiring to waste space with this bs.

[Graceland Gardener]

GG is just trying to get some debate going here...and debate is always good........ I think GG is just giving us a time line of things that happened during Elvis career, and how Priscilla could have been involved.

I'm glad our lady members understand where I'm coming from.
It is a half-serious point I'm making.

There was uncanny coincidence with Priscilla moving in and his #1 hits stop. (believe in superstitions? She did jinx him)
and her leaving him "to find herself" is a bogus excuse imo.

plus, what was Col. Parker's role/position on these things?

If Elvis gets too powerful and confident (like 1970-71 proved he was in TOP FORM) he could exert more individual decision making ---
Parker didn't want him doing that.
He might've been glad Prisiclla gave Elvis so much headaches and heartaches and distractions away from business

[Luuk]

With Graceland Gardener's reasoning you can prove "anything".
Was Elvis gay? Yes!
1956 he was seen with well known gay's such as Liberace and was friends with Nick Adams.
In 1957 Elvis had several guys living with him.
In 1958, 1959 and part of 1960 while in the Army Elvis preferred to live at home and had some guys living with him again.
Back at Graceland Elvis had several guys living with him, even when he did not work in-between filming.
Although most male singers who were popular have children here and there, nothing of this kind was ever heard about Elvis fathering any child except for Lisa-Marie.
Priscilla claimed in her book that Elvis did not touch her after Lisa-Marie was born.
Graceland groupies say nothing ever happened at Graceland. All Elvis wanted to do was make music and sing.

So, was Elvis gay and did The Colonel urge Elvis finally to marry Priscilla "to end the rumours"?

[Silver]

I don't really think that Priscilla jinxed Elvis. I think she just wasn't up to helping him. Elvis was: emotional, impulsive, extremely sexually seductive, engaged in risky decisions, at times overly energetic, had an overinflated ego, had difficulty with sleep, at times talked incessantly, was easily distracted, had increased goal-directed activity and physical agitation, had a very quick temper, was at times extremely morose, had significant changes in appetite and weight, at times loss of energy (kept to himself in his room), sometimes feelings of guilt, sometimes difficulty in concentrating, had recurring thoughts of death (first song: death of a dog; My Way - the end is near; Heartbreak Hotel - so lonely I could die; American Trilogy - your daddy's bound to die, etc. You know you could find a LOT of songs like this; plus he was born with death, a dead twin.) Now if you read this list, don't you think: It's Elvis. He greatest fear was being alone. This list is not mine. It comes from the American Phychiatric Association. It is the list of symptoms of bi-polars. I have said this many times before on various message boards. I recognize them instantly because I am married to a diagnosed bipolar. Priscilla didn't and still doesn't recognize that. Unless you are totally committed to a person, it would be impossible to live with this condition. Elvis would have been much better living single and changing partners every once in awhile unless he met someone who was totally committed. I do believe that getting married was the beginning of the end for him. He could NOT live in fidelity to anyone. TJ you are correct. But it was NOT his fault. Bipolarism is inherited. He got it from Gladys (You may or may not know of the time she ran off with a married man for a few weeks; then came home and went to bed for a few weeks.) He also gave it to Lisa. How else would you explain her marriage to Michael Jackson? To Nic Cage for 3 months?

He is in good company: Winston Churchill (who got it from his father, Sir Randolph Churchill), Abraham Lincoln, Lord Nelson, Robert E. Lee, Michaelangelo, Vincent Van Gogh, Rubens, Picasso, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Lizst, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Stephen Foster, a lot of artists and a lot of musicians, and a lot of writers, poets, actors (Robin Williams, Ned Beatty, Patty Duke, Connie Frances, Brian Wilson, Frances Ford Coppola (where does this put Nic Cage?). With artistic talent does come a bit of risk. It's not that having talent makes you bipolar, but that many many bipolars are very talented and extremely intelligent.

By the way their birth orders make it impossible that they stay together. He was an only child and she was the oldest. They make a deadly combination.

I will leave this post here for a day and then will delete it. Maybe less than a day. Well, I guess I can't delete this, since it's in someone else's post now. So, Carolyn, will leave it here as you requested!!

[Luuk]

I don't really think that Priscilla jinxed Elvis. I think she just wasn't up to helping him. Elvis was: emotional, impulsive, extremely sexually seductive, engaged in risky decisions, at times overly energetic, had an overinflated ego, had difficulty with sleep, at times talked incessantly, was easily distracted, had increased goal-directed activity and physical agitation, had a very quick temper, was at times extremely morose, had significant changes in appetite and weight, at times loss of energy (kept to himself in his room), sometimes feelings of guilt, sometimes difficulty in concentrating, had recurring thoughts of death (first song: death of a dog; My Way - the end is near; Heartbreak Hotel - so lonely I could die; American Trilogy - your daddy's bound to die, etc. You know you could find a LOT of songs like this; plus he was born with death, a dead twin.) Now if you read this list, don't you think: It's Elvis. He greatest fear was being alone. This list is not mine. It comes from the American Phychiatric Association. It is the list of symptoms of bi-polars. I have said this many times before on various message boards. I recognize them instantly because I am married to a diagnosed bipolar. Priscilla didn't and still doesn't recognize that. Unless you are totally committed to a person, it would be impossible to live with this condition. Elvis would have been much better living single and changing partners every once in awhile unless he met someone who was totally committed. I do believe that getting married was the beginning of the end for him. He could NOT live in fidelity to anyone. TJ you are correct. But it was NOT his fault. Bipolarism is inherited. He got it from Gladys (You may or may not know of the time she ran off with a married man for a few weeks; then came home and went to bed for a few weeks.) He also gave it to Lisa. How else would you explain her marriage to Michael Jackson? To Nic Cage for 3 months?

He is in good company: Winston Churchill (who got it from his father, Sir Randolph Churchill), Abraham Lincoln, Lord Nelson, Robert E. Lee, Michaelangelo, Vincent Van Gogh, Rubens, Picasso, Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Lizst, Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky, Wagner, Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, Stephen Foster, a lot of artists and a lot of musicians, and a lot of writers, poets, actors (Robin Williams, Ned Beatty, Patty Duke, Connie Frances, Brian Wilson, Frances Ford Coppola (where does this put Nic Cage?). With artistic talent does come a bit of risk. It's not that having talent makes you bipolar, but that many many bipolars are very talented and extremely intelligent.

By the way their birth orders make it impossible that they stay together. He was an only child and she was the oldest. They make a deadly combination.

I will leave this post here for a day and then will delete it. Maybe less than a day.

If one really wants, one can explain everything.
If someone does something the easy way, that person is lazy.
Yet if someone does it the difficult way, that person is not too bright!
Either way you lose.

[Silver]

Ask any bipolar alive today about their spending habits. I can attest to that!! in spades!! Remember all of the cars, the horses, the trucks, the house trailers at the Circle G, the jewelry for Linda, etc. etc.?

Plus, I lived through all of the addictions: pharmaceutical drugs (fortunately he didn't have a Dr. Nick), alcohol (several times), eating addictions, sexual excapades, etc., etc., until he finally realized that I wasn't leaving. There are lots and lots of "tests" that a bipolar puts you through to make sure you won't leave him "alone."

And Carolyn you are entirely correct. You can be a GREAT ENTHUSIASTIC fan and still see the dark side. Elvis, I believe, was a genius and yet he was still bipolar. I still love him, just as I still love my husband.

And, GG, yes, I still think that Priscilla manipulated him into an unwise marriage, not understanding what she was getting into, even if she lived there for several years. He was gone a lot of the time and she was desperate to marry him (because she had been living there - things were different in those days and it wouldn't have done her reputation much good to have been living there without getting married, finally). And she did have Parker's help (didn't she name her daughter after his wife, Marie?

[Renan]

Did Parker & Priscilla conspire against Elvis?

note the odd timing:

1961 - Elvis is so self-confident about his popularity and touring potential...... but Priscilla suddenly calls/writes to distract him, seduce him.

1963 - Priscilla, at Graceland, is a live-in.....spy for Parker?

1967 - Elvis hates film career, maybe wants new mgmt.....
they conspire to arrange the wedding! Get married now!

1971-72 - Elvis is so self-confident about his popularity and touring potential..... but suddenly she walks out on him, ruining marriage and Elvis gets distracted and depressed. (Rot sets in)



1980s - She and Parker conspire to merchandise Elvis stuff out the wazoo. She takes exclusive Parker 101 course on Tackiness and laughs all the way to the bank.


--- at pivotal moments when Elvis might've realized he didn't need/didn't want his old oppressive sneaky carny mgmt...(1970s especially)
she does something to detour Elvis' plans and knock him off kilter.
To ruin his momentum. Even embarass him, humiliate him.

Coincidence? Or planned?

Isn´t it funny so much "coincidence"?

Good topic.

[Graceland Gardener]

Thanks Renan. Just wanted to wake the board up a bit.



Luuk, Your rebuttal post is abominable.

I was making charges at Col. Parker and Priscilla.

I know you heatedly defend Parker (yet again, I see)
but is he your hero so much as to make a disgusting illustration about Elvis?

Unlike your smarmy sarcastic theory, I didn't slander Elvis himself at all.
But other characters.
The ones closest to him who exerted the most life-changing and sometimes horrendous control over his life path, with bad timing,
and who capitalized on his wealth and death the most.
P & P

[Silver]

Yes, GG, I do believe that you were defending Elvis. You do love him as we all do.
sue

[Graceland Gardener]

I do Sue. And that was a reasonable and intersting contribution about bipolarocity (sp?)

[iamhekev]

look at the fun the man had when he was making viva las vegas

[TJ]

I don't think we can say with certainty that Elvis was bipolar, but I agree that a lot of the vital signs are there.

[Graceland Gardener]

I guess another way of posing the original question is:

Was it to Col. Parker's advantage (and taking advantage thereof).......

that A - Elvis moves an underage girl in at Graceland?
that B - Elvis finally marries her and starts family?
that C - Elvis winds up divorced?

each situation has Elvis vulnerable in some respect.

The more vulnerable means the more off-balance as to being in total control and focus of his own life/career.
Control-freak Parker didn't want that. He preferred his client "caught in a trap and can't walk out"

Each situation (A,B,C) has a blackmail capacity with it too.

underage = obvious
married = adultery
separated/divorced = ?

Did Priscilla involve herself in these things unwittingly or calculatingly?

The story goes Elvis asked/begged/charmed her parents to let her move in.
But was the moving to Memphis his idea? May have been HER idea. Or Parker's?

Her moving in with Elvis may not be a literal "jinx"
but look at the '63-67 sales figures & chart positions =
she did not help his career. A jinx theory is plausible!

But nevertheless,
The Arrival of Lolita did set two certain persons up with leverage for future use.

-- used against Elvis himself
-- and even used against his fans

And each laughed all the way to the bank and lived high on the hog
while we (still) buy EP salt & pepper shakers and bumperstickers.

[Melanie]

The idea of burning the religious books was hatched by Parker and Priscilla. In February '67 they got Elvis to agree to burn them. After they got married, she talked Elvis into going to Palm Springs on weekends primarily with Joe & Joanie Esposito. What happened there, amongst other things, was discussions of politics of the group. Parker and Priscilla pushed Joe to be the sole person Elvis relied on, because Joe was a pipeline to Parker on what Elvis was doing every day.