RECORD SALES UPDATE?

[brian]

Yes i can, this also affects many hundreds of artists that have been robbed by the RIAA, not just Elvis.

I see this differently than you do. I don't see them changing the rules from needing one million to 500,000 as a big deal. Artists during Elvis' era didn't sell that many records. It was a big deal back then when a singer or a group got a million seller so in theory this was a good thing. It did benefit Elvis because then only 27 of his singles would be certified. Also record labels agreed to the rules changing. It's not a big conspiracy like you are acting like.

[FredAistair]

Yes i can, this also affects many hundreds of artists that have been robbed by the RIAA, not just Elvis.

I see this differently than you do. I don't see them changing the rules from needing one million to 500,000 as a big deal. Artists during Elvis' era didn't sell that many records. It was a big deal back then when a singer or a group got a million seller so in theory this was a good thing. It did benefit Elvis because then only 27 of his singles would be certified. Also record labels agreed to the rules changing. It's not a big conspiracy like you are acting like.

I am Bing Crosby and I can sure as hell tell ya, the RIAA totally , absolutely and utterly understate my sales.

[brian]

I've said this before It's not the RIAA it's the record labels. If the record labels would submit the proper sales documentation then these artists that are under certified would be credited with more sales. The problem with Bing Crosby and many of these older artists is their record labels don't have the records of their sales anymore. So they cannot prove how much they have sold. You are blaming the RIAA but it's the labels. I don't know that I blame the labels for not keeping track of sales from 60 or 70 years. Elvis Presley is more fortunate than them.

[minkahed]

So what about the RIAA changing its certification rules and now singles that sold a million copies are now certified with 500k, such as The Wonder Of You.

If we apply your pov then you agree that The Wonder Of You has sold 500,000 copies LESS than the RIAA accredited it with on 1970?

I don't believe that the Wonder of You actually sold 1 million copies in the United States when it was released. Since it peaked in the lower rungs of the top ten in 1970 it probably did sell 500-600k. Back in those days in order to have a genuine million seller you usually had to get into the top 5. So I am okay with the rule changes. That actually benefited Elvis more and more of his singles have gotten certified as a result.

How can you not believe "The Wonder of You" did not receive a gold record for 1 million sales when the president of RCA presented the award to Elvis personally in vegas, August of 1972 ? Nonsense.

[brian]

How can you not believe "The Wonder of You" did not receive a gold record for 1 million sales when the president of RCA presented the award to Elvis personally in vegas, August of 1972 ? Nonsense.

I wasn't sure if the gold record was from RCA or from the RIAA. That's what I was talking about.

[elvis-fan]

How can you not believe "The Wonder of You" did not receive a gold record for 1 million sales when the president of RCA presented the award to Elvis personally in vegas, August of 1972 ? Nonsense.

I wasn't sure if the gold record was from RCA or from the RIAA. That's what I was talking about.

OMG stop talking... you are continuously contradicting yourself... as incorrect as it is, you may your point... move on.

[brian]

IOMG stop talking... you are continuously contradicting yourself... as incorrect as it is, you may your point... move on.

I like you but I have noticed you can be very rude sometimes to people if you don't like what they have to say. I think it's best if you move on and not say anything else. Please for the love of god.

[ForeverElvis]

Yes i can, this also affects many hundreds of artists that have been robbed by the RIAA, not just Elvis.

I see this differently than you do. I don't see them changing the rules from needing one million to 500,000 as a big deal. Artists during Elvis' era didn't sell that many records. It was a big deal back then when a singer or a group got a million seller so in theory this was a good thing. It did benefit Elvis because then only 27 of his singles would be certified. Also record labels agreed to the rules changing. It's not a big conspiracy like you are acting like.

Let me understand - you read Neal Umphred's blog links i provided and thunk its a conspiracy theory!
OMG! I can assure you its not a conspiracy theory.

did you read the other article about the records sales worldwide?

[brian]

Let me understand - you read Neal Umphred's blog links i provided and thunk its a conspiracy theory!
OMG! I can assure you its not a conspiracy theory.

did you read the other article about the records sales worldwide?

I have read them all before.

[ForeverElvis]

Since you believe the RIAA was wrong back then, you believe that the rule changed that have taken place that reduce the Wonder of you'd certified million shipped to 500,000 is now correct?

Yes. Was it an RIAA gold record or a gold record from RCA. I suspect the gold record back then was from RCA.

The 1970 award for TWOY single was from RIAA and for over a million sales in the US. After the certification date returns came in and that reduced the net shipment to a little below 1M singles (995k I read somewhere IIRC), hence it was not possible to certify the single platinum for 1M sales in the 1990s.

that is possible but i have a hard time believing that RIAA would certify, hand out the award and then go oops, not quite a million!
but when the rules changed instead of applying the rule retroactively they should have made all GOLD records that had been certified at 1 million upgraded to platinum.

but then the RIAA wouldn't have made any money out of that gesture to all those artists that now have
records that are certified 500k less than reality.

[ForeverElvis]

Let me understand - you read Neal Umphred's blog links i provided and thunk its a conspiracy theory!
OMG! I can assure you its not a conspiracy theory.

did you read the other article about the records sales worldwide?

I have read them all before.

and you still maintain that unless the RIAA hasn't certified it, then it is a recognized sale and Elvis has sold any more than the 136million albums? that's not very open minded.

what about the rest of the world - the RIAA is USA only - do none of those sales count?

in addition do you also believe that it is right that Billboard changed it's rules and eliminated 11 of Elvis' number one hits? and before that eliminated the double number one of hound dog / don't be cruel?

[brian]

and you still maintain that unless the RIAA hasn't certified it, then it is a recognized sale and Elvis has sold any more than the 136million albums? that's not very open minded.

what about the rest of the world - the RIAA is USA only - do none of those sales count?

in addition do you also believe that it is right that Billboard changed it's rules and eliminated 11 of Elvis' number one hits? and before that eliminated the double number one of hound dog / don't be cruel?

I have always acknowledged that Elvis has some missing non certified sales. In this thread and in the past in other threads. The only thing I am saying is that no one really knows for sure what the correct number of sales Elvis has overall. All that is certain is his sales that have been certified. I feel that is a very reasonable point of view but Hard Rocker and a couple of other people were being rude to me about it. Even though it's a valid point. I have said nothing about his worldwide sales except asking on page 2 if anyone knew what Elvis' certified sales in the U.K., Canada and Australia were but no one answered. His certified sales overseas certainly do count. Billboard needs to be more consistent with Elvis' number ones either count them or don't. Instead of all this back and forth.

[Hard Rocker]

and you still maintain that unless the RIAA hasn't certified it, then it is a recognized sale and Elvis has sold any more than the 136million albums? that's not very open minded.

what about the rest of the world - the RIAA is USA only - do none of those sales count?

in addition do you also believe that it is right that Billboard changed it's rules and eliminated 11 of Elvis' number one hits? and before that eliminated the double number one of hound dog / don't be cruel?

I have always acknowledged that Elvis has some missing non certified sales. In this thread and in the past in other threads. The only thing I am saying is that no one really knows for sure what the correct number of sales Elvis has overall. All that is certain is his sales that have been certified. I feel that is a very reasonable point of view but Hard Rocker and a couple of other people were being rude to me about it.

Nope. You were very insistent that Elvis's total of US album sales came to a grand total of no more that 136m because the RIAA has certified that amount.

You have now changed your tune but don't try and twist it... and spare us the moralizing.

Here's a reminder:

Elvis' album sales in the U.S. don't exceed 136 million until his record label submits proper sales documentation to the RIAA to get more sales upgrades. Until then the only album sales he has are 136 million. That's fact. Any figure that you say that he has sold that's higher than the 136 million that's been documented would be speculation on your part

You should have said "Elvis' album CERTIFICATIONS in the U.S. don't exceed 136 million until his record label submits proper sales documentation to the RIAA". However you DID NOT say "certifications". You said "sales", which of course as we all know is nonsense.

[brian]

Nope. You were very insistent that Elvis's total of US album sales came to a grand total of no more that 136m because the RIAA has certified that amount.

You have now changed your tune but don't try and twist it... and spare us the moralizing.

I did because that's what can be proven without a doubt. But I still acknowledged a couple of times that he has some non certified sales. I see nothing wrong with that. I have been of the point of view that non certified sales don't mean much.

[Hard Rocker]

You should have said "Elvis' album CERTIFICATIONS in the U.S. don't exceed 136 million until his record label submits proper sales documentation to the RIAA".

However you DID NOT say "certifications". You said "sales", which of course as we all know is nonsense.

Here's your direct quote again: "Elvis' album sales in the U.S. don't exceed 136 million until his record label submits proper sales documentation to the RIAA"

These are your words and it's pretty clear that you've got it wrong.

[brian]

Hard Rocker sure does like to argue. I never realized he could get so pissy about record sales and certifications. He again is accusing me of saying something wrong. I just have a different point of view that is all. I respect Hard Rocker's point of view. I wish he would respect mine and let it go.

[Hard Rocker]

There is no argument here and it is not a matter of opinion or "point of view". It is simply a matter of fact that you are wrong when you say that Elvis's total album sales equal the amount certified by he RIAA.

By the way, I'm accusing you of nothing. I merely cite your own words and they are what have defeated you.

And as regards "respecting Hard Rocker's opinion", that would be more believable if you hadn't demanded an apology for simply highlighting the fact that your analysis was mistaken. You add to that by calling my perspective "pissy", so again, spare me the BS about "respect".

[brian]

And as regards "respecting Hard Rocker's opinion", that would be more believable if you hadn't demanded an apology for simply highlighting the fact that your analysis was mistaken. You add to that by calling my perspective "pissy", so again, spare me the BS about "respect".

In that case you should be reminded that Elvisfan1970 original post asked what Elvis' certified sales were and other specific questions about his certifications. I answered the questions to the best of my ability. You then tried to argue with me over non certified sales and you were argumentative and rude about it. Not to mention you took the thread off topic. So thanks for that.

[Hard Rocker]

Nope, there's no dispute over certifications. Don't try to twist it.
The dispute here is over your assertion that Elvis sold a total of 136m album sales in the US, which is wrong.