American Sound '69 Postscript --> What Could Have Been

[drjohncarpenter]

In Memphis Boys, author Roben Jones' superb book on the men and women who made music -- and history -- at American Sound studios in Memphis, her chapter on Elvis' titanic sessions there ends with a lot of interesting "what-ifs."

Memphis Boys_p218.png

Roben Jones, Memphis Boys - page 218



Those who were there recall the success of the 1969 Presley work also shed tremendous light on all of them, both a good and bad thing. And they also noticed that although Elvis did not return for encore sessions, he continued to reach back to the kind of songs that came his way while working with producer Chips Moman and the peerless house band. Or to new songs from the same writers.

Among those mentioned:

It's Only Love
Raised On Rock
Moody Blue
Always On My Mind
Holly Leaves and Christmas Trees
If You Talk In Your Sleep
Steamroller

For those who don't know the Memphis recordings of that last one, cut at American Sound, here it is:





Masqueraders "Steamroller" (Bell 932, November 1970)



Then keyboardist Bobby Emmons mentions a track he claims Presley had an acetate of in his briefcase "for his last ten sessions." And then writer Wayne Carson mentions a handful of tunes given to the Box Tops, and even one he first cut on his own before handing it to B.J. Thomas, who had a hit with it in 1971.

All of them are damn good. Ah, if only Elvis had given Chips and the gang another shot in 1970. Maybe we'd have missed out on songs like "Life," but how bad would that be today?





Dan Penn "Nobody's Fool" (Happy Tiger 538, April 1970)






Box Tops "The Letter" (Mala 565, August 1967)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton (just 16 at the time!)






Box Tops "Soul Deep" (Mala 12,040, June 1969)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton






Wayne Carson "No Love At All" (Monument 1192, February 1970)

He would have sung the sh'it out of "No Love At All."

- Wayne Carson

Yup.

'

[eric c]

Elvis-1969-Dennis-Laverty-doco-Pt2d-.jpg

his greatest recording sessions,by far in my opinion.
he thrived when presented a challenge....and at times he needed to be challenged.
these sessions provide both.
knee deep in his comeback....these sessions provided him enough material worth a damn.
most...if not all...dripping with the elements and from the musical traditions closest to his musical soul and ALWAYS brought out his best efforts....gospel,country and rhythm and blues.
strong contemporary material that showed...you damn right he's worth listening to.
in producer chips moman...he had what he needed sometimes....a producer who would challenge him.
and who liked the same kinda music.
i still think the nashville marathon was his prefered way to record...LIVE....and the marathon are americans only real rival during this period.
both offer some of his very best music.
but he didn't ever have a producer that challenged him like sam phillips did til chips in '69.
and you can't argue with the success of those sessions and what was accomplished...
•from elvis in memphis...his greatest album.
•suspicious minds...his greatest song.
•in the ghetto/any day now...a dynamite pairing.
•don't cry daddy
•kentucky rain
you really can't go wrong with what Elvis put down at american.
i don't know if Elvis and chips could've continued to work together over a longer period since they had different prefered styles on how to record.
but it woulda been so cool to watch it...or listen to it...play out.
Elvis needed both the american sessions and the nashville marathon.
they served his musical soul well.
but he also needed...every now and then...the challenger.
and that was missing post '69.
i always thought it woulda been cool if he returned to sun studios at some point in the 70s to cut an album...and the same with american.
but i'm damn glad he did in '69.

[pmp]

There's nothing really to suggest that a repeat batch of sessions at American would have been as good as the first time around. Elvis worked best when faced with a new challenge or new people around him to impress. The first year for RCA, the fusion of jazz and rock in King Creole, the post-army sessions, the beginning of the road to the comeback in 1966, American in 1969, Nashville in 1970. But trying to repeat that success was much more difficult. Outside of Jailhouse Rock and a few select other songs in 1957, it didn't equal 1956. Something for Everybody didn't equal Elvis is Back. GGG didn't even equal Blue Hawaii. And we know all too well that Nashville 1971 didn't equal Nashville 1970. There's nothing in Elvis's career to suggest that a second set of sessions with Chip, or even a second TV show with Binder, would have matched what had already been.

What Elvis needed to be at his best were NEW challenges, not trying to repeat old ones.

[James27]

Elvis was at his best when he faced what he perceived as a daunting challenge, something scary. I've often thought about other truly greats in other entertainment fields, like Muhammad Ali, Frank Sinatra. Only when they had something to prove, proving that they belonged, not to be overlooked, did they show what they were really capable of. The hunt, conquering whatever they've put in front of themselves to conquer including the fear of failing, and then the satisfaction of knowing they've nailed it, a feeling of pride and accomplishment that can't last ...

[Lee Wood]

In Memphis Boys, author Roben Jones' superb book on the men and women who made music -- and history -- at American Sound studios in Memphis, her chapter on Elvis' titanic sessions there ends with a lot of interesting "what-ifs."






Roben Jones, Memphis Boys - page 218



Those who were there recall the success of the 1969 Presley work also shed tremendous light on all of them, both a good and bad thing. And they also noticed that although Elvis did not return for encore sessions, he continued to reach back to the kind of songs that came his way while working with producer Chips Moman and the peerless house band. Or to new songs from the same writers.

Among those mentioned:

It's Only Love
Raised On Rock
Moody Blue
Always On My Mind
Holly Leaves and Christmas Trees
If You Talk In Your Sleep
Steamroller

For those who don't know the Memphis recordings of that last one, cut at American Sound, here it is:





Masqueraders "Steamroller" (Bell 932, November 1970)



Then keyboardist Bobby Emmons mentions a track he claims Presley had an acetate of in his briefcase "for his last ten sessions." And then writer Wayne Carson mentions a handful of tunes given to the Box Tops, and even one he first cut on his own before handing it to B.J. Thomas, who had a hit with it in 1971.

All of them are damn good. Ah, if only Elvis had given Chips and the gang another shot in 1970. Maybe we'd have missed out on songs like "Life," but how bad would that be today?





Dan Penn "Nobody's Fool" (Happy Tiger 538, April 1970)






Box Tops "The Letter" (Mala 565, August 1967)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton (just 16 at the time!)






Box Tops "Soul Deep" (Mala 12,040, June 1969)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton






Wayne Carson "No Love At All" (Monument 1192, February 1970)

He would have sung the sh'it out of "No Love At All."

- Wayne Carson

Yup.

'

If only....

There were some great tracks there, and many more come to mind that he could have tackled. Chips certainly brought out the best in Elvis, but I always get the feeling that Elvis wasn't comfortable with the way he was handled. He was in a room with musicians who were at the top of their game, a producer who stood for no nonsense, and I don't think he'd been put under this kind of pressure before, not even with Sam back at Sun.

I think we'd all have liked him to have gone back and worked with Chips again, but he didn't, so it is what it is. Shame.

[timothy_sideburns]

Sam Philips, Leiber/Stoller, Steve Binder, Chips Moman..... Elvis's career seems like an endless list of people he did INCREDIBLE work with who were then cut out never to darken his doorstep again. To think we don;t have a recording of him singing Dan Penn's Nobodys Fool but we do have a recording of him singing Queenie Wahine's Papaya.

It's so counter intuitive to discuss the career of the most successful recording artist of the century, in terms of "What if.." but sadly that is what we must do. For the moments of artistic greatness were fleeting. I'd have loved to have seen Elvis down at Muscle Shoals with those guys in 1966/67. I wonder what Jerry Wexler or Ahmet Ertegun would've done with Elvis. Or even Jerry Moss/Herb Alpert at A&M. What if, what if, what if...

[AndrewJ]

Did Elvis not want to work with Chips Moman again or was it his management? On the session tapes, their relationship seems to be at least cordial and at times very close. There is no obvious friction - even when Chips stops a take or suggests changes.

[brian]

I suppose if Elvis had returned to American studios the singles would've been better in 1970-1971 and that's the main reason he should've went back there. I think its possible that Elvis records songs by Mark James, Wayne Carson and Chips Moman and those songs would've been released as singles. Also rather than recording Elvis Country he ends up recording a blue eyed soul album. Some of the better songs that Elvis did record in Nashville like Just Pretend and How the web was woven would probably still end up being recorded at American because I would have expected Freddy Bienstock to attend the session. Freddy would bring those songs to Elvis and he would like them enough to record them. In 1969 Elvis got songs from several different people and I see that continuing if he had gone back to American. If the singles at American were good quality then those sessions would be more highly regarded than the Nashville sessions of 1970-1971 are. I think not working with Elvis again was a missed opportunity for Chips Moman. Chips left Memphis in 1972 partly because he felt underappreciated by them but working with Elvis more often would've raised his profile. It would've made Chips Moman more well known if he had become Elvis's regular record producer instead of Felton Jarvis. Elvis's star power would've helped Chips Moman get more recognition than he did they could've helped in each other. Some of the better songs that Elvis recorded in seventies I could see Chips Moman producing for him. Songs like Always on my mind, I've got a thing about you baby, If you talk in your sleep, Promised land, For the heart and Moody Blue I could see Chips recording with Elvis. Even if Elvis had continued recording with Chips I still see RCA flooding the market with too many albums. I still see them releasing too many albums from Elvis's sessions and that being a problem even if Elvis had continued recording at American studios. That still would've been a problem. That's how I see it.

[brian]

Did Elvis not want to work with Chips Moman again or was it his management? On the session tapes, their relationship seems to be at least cordial and at times very close. There is no obvious friction - even when Chips stops a take or suggests changes.

After the sessions were over Colonel Parker told Elvis that Chips Moman had tried to record ''In the ghetto'' with another artist. The story told by Parker was a lie but Elvis believed what Colonel Parker said about Chips and made him not want to work with him again. You see Mac Davis had given Elvis the song In the ghetto and it was Elvis that brought the song to the session. So Elvis didn't like the idea that Chips was wanting to record ''In the ghetto'' with another artist instead of him. That's why it made Elvis upset and not want to work with him again. Colonel Parker didn't like the fact that he didn't have control of the session and he didn't like the fact that Chips Moman didn't give up a piece of the publishing on Suspicious minds. That's why Colonel Parker didn't want Elvis to record with Chips Moman again and that's why he made up the story. Felton Jarvis was originally supposed to produce the 1969 sessions in Nashville and was upset and disappointed when Elvis chose to record with Chips Moman instead. Felton Jarvis wanted to be Elvis's record producer and he wanted to recognized for that. So he backed up Colonel Parker's story about Chips trying to steal ''In the ghetto'' from Elvis. That's why Elvis never went back to American.

[eric c]

Did Elvis not want to work with Chips Moman again or was it his management? On the session tapes, their relationship seems to be at least cordial and at times very close. There is no obvious friction - even when Chips stops a take or suggests changes.

i think the business side got in the way.
i'm sure the col saw moman as a threat.
i've never heard of any friction between Elvis and chips.

[drjohncarpenter]

Sam Philips, Leiber/Stoller, Steve Binder, Chips Moman..... Elvis's career seems like an endless list of people he did INCREDIBLE work with who were then cut out never to darken his doorstep again. To think we don;t have a recording of him singing Dan Penn's Nobodys Fool but we do have a recording of him singing Queenie Wahine's Papaya.

It's so counter intuitive to discuss the career of the most successful recording artist of the century, in terms of "What if.." but sadly that is what we must do. For the moments of artistic greatness were fleeting. I'd have loved to have seen Elvis down at Muscle Shoals with those guys in 1966/67. I wonder what Jerry Wexler or Ahmet Ertegun would've done with Elvis. Or even Jerry Moss/Herb Alpert at A&M. What if, what if, what if...

Don't think the greatness was fleeting, but it was not nurtured or respected. Sometimes it only happened because Elvis broke through the barriers put up by management and other entities. And so it was inconsistently evident, to a point where only the hardcore saw it.

[drjohncarpenter]

Elvis was at his best when he faced what he perceived as a daunting challenge, something scary. I've often thought about other truly greats in other entertainment fields, like Muhammad Ali, Frank Sinatra. Only when they had something to prove, proving that they belonged, not to be overlooked, did they show what they were really capable of. The hunt, conquering whatever they've put in front of themselves to conquer including the fear of failing, and then the satisfaction of knowing they've nailed it, a feeling of pride and accomplishment that can't last ...

"Only"?

All of these men originally came to prominence through their talent, charisma, uniqueness and vision.

The "something to prove" scenario was later, after a career stumble or miscue.

[pmp]

Elvis was at his best when he faced what he perceived as a daunting challenge, something scary. I've often thought about other truly greats in other entertainment fields, like Muhammad Ali, Frank Sinatra. Only when they had something to prove, proving that they belonged, not to be overlooked, did they show what they were really capable of. The hunt, conquering whatever they've put in front of themselves to conquer including the fear of failing, and then the satisfaction of knowing they've nailed it, a feeling of pride and accomplishment that can't last ...

That's not true in Sinatra's case. He was only rarely off his game - arguably the late 1940s and early 1950s when Mitch Miller tried to influence his choice of material. His catalogue of recordings for Capitol and the first half decade of Reprise (1953-1965) rarely shifts from masterful, although he struggle to find his place in the late 1960s music field, but still only had a handful of sub-par albums (most notably The World We Knew and a Christmas album). The difference between Sinatra and Elvis is that Sinatra challenged himself with almost every recording project. Never did he just pick a dozen songs and throw them together on an album. There was always a plan, always a different approach to each album even when they appeared similar on the surface (Swing Easy, Songs for Swinging Lovers, A Swinging Affair, Sinatra's Swinging Session etc - all similar, but all still approached in different ways). Elvis didn't challenge himself beyond when he had to. And that's the big difference.

[Kylan]

This isn’t aimed at anyone specific but this whole conversation reminds me of Paul McCartney in anthology. It’s fing Elvis Presley. Shut the hell up and move on down the road!

[frus75]

Wonderful posts everyone!

I’m in the minority but I think it’s good Elvis left SUN, left his band in 57, left American after 69, etc.

Why? Because Elvis had a natural tendency to thrive on new projects, new environments etc.

Once he came back again, the results were not guaranteed. By leaving SUN or American early in the game he contributed to its legendary status. I’m not saying that necessary it would have failed, but I have the feeling that a 1970 third visit to American could have been worse than we envision.

Imagine that he had left Nashville after the June 70 sessions. Maybe we’ll be saying the same. That he should’ve returned there. With that stellar band. That maybe as he had improvised a country album, a blues album could have happened on his next visit. But it turned out that he came back to Nashville in 71, and we know the results were not on par with 1970.

Again, I’m not saying that necessarily it would have been disappointing, I’m just introducing another point of view to the discussion.

[brian]

I disagree that Elvis Presley constantly needed a new environment to do quality work. In general the 1950s as a whole is considered his best and most consistent period because he consistently had good songs to record. After that he was up and down but when the material was good he generally produced good results and when it wasn't the results were bad. What Elvis needed was to have good material brought to his sessions and to have a good producer working with him. Elvis had great success working with Chips Moman so he should've returned there a second time. Given his success there it would've made sense to go back there for another session. I think at that point in his life recording in Memphis with Chips Moman and the Memphis Boys was a better environment than recording in Nashville. His glory days in Nashville had long since faded and were behind him.

[seaward]

Excluding his command performances, Presley early studio work were great challenges for him and he met them with great success. With the Sun singles, the albums Elvis Presley, Elvis, Elvis Is Back, Something For Everybody, and Pot Luck, the artist was consistently evolving. There is no shame in the work that Elvis did on these recordings and I would recommend them all to any music lover today. They respectfully reflect his prime period of 55-62. So, in addition, Chips and the American Sound Studio was what Presley needed by ‘69. It was another enormous challenge on an artistic level and it was amazing what Elvis had accomplished there. No doubt, it would have worked extremely well if Elvis has made another album there.

[eric c]

Tampa 1955.jpg

from sun...

tb_s77052111.jpg

to sundial.
AMEN!

[drjohncarpenter]

I disagree that Elvis Presley constantly needed a new environment to do quality work. In general the 1950s as a whole is considered his best and most consistent period because he consistently had good songs to record. After that he was up and down but when the material was good he generally produced good results and when it wasn't the results were bad. What Elvis needed was to have good material brought to his sessions and to have a good producer working with him. Elvis had great success working with Chips Moman so he should've returned there a second time. Given his success there it would've made sense to go back there for another session. I think at that point in his life recording in Memphis with Chips Moman and the Memphis Boys was a better environment than recording in Nashville. His glory days in Nashville had long since faded and were behind him.

Indeed, to imagine giving American Sound at least one more go-around in 1970 is glorious. For one thing, many of the terrible songs would never have been admitted to the session, Chips Moman always pushed for good material.

In the case of this topic, the specific songs noted at the end of the Memphis Boys chapter caught my eye, and I felt it would be fun to consider any of them being given the Elvis magic, backed by the American house band and produced by Chips.

It's hard to believe anyone having a problem with it. But it's a big forum.

[eligain]

from sun...

to sundial.
AMEN!

I wonder what 1954 Elvis would have thought of the guy in the sundial suit?

[egilj]

Did Elvis not want to work with Chips Moman again or was it his management? On the session tapes, their relationship seems to be at least cordial and at times very close. There is no obvious friction - even when Chips stops a take or suggests changes.

i think the business side got in the way.
i'm sure the col saw moman as a threat.
i've never heard of any friction between Elvis and chips.

No, that's not it, I believe. To blame Parker for everything we don't understand, is intellectual laziness, and that apply to many on this forum. Gurlanick wrote something about it on page 376 in Careless Love. Some in the Elvis camp, (possible Felton in the lead, my comm) saw Chips as greedy and disrespectful. Besides, Chips spoke negatively about Elvis. If all this was true or if it was because of jealousy in the Elvis camp, we don't know of course. A little bit of both, is my guess. My interpretation from Gurlanick, is that the bad-mouthing got back to Elvis. And when he in additon felt he had to choose between Chips and Felton, the decision was easy because of the friendship with Felton.

[brian]

In the case of this topic, the specific songs noted at the end of the Memphis Boys chapter caught my eye, and I felt it would be fun to consider any of them being given the Elvis magic, backed by the American house band and produced by Chips.

It's hard to believe anyone having a problem with it. But it's a big forum.

I could see Elvis covering Brother loves traveling Salvation show on stage. Chips produced that for Neil Diamond. I could see Elvis covering Loving you is a natural thing and having a country hit with it. Chips Moman produced that song for Ronnie Milsap. I think that Elvis could've done a good version of the song Dark End of the street. Dark End of the street wasn't recorded at American but its associated with Chips Moman because he co-wrote it and I could see Elvis recording a version of it at American studios. Soul deep is another song produced by Chips Moman that I could see Elvis covering for one of his albums. Nobody's fool by Dan Penn is a song that I could see Elvis recording at either American studios or Stax and it being released as a single by him. I could certainly see Chips producing that for Elvis. I think Elvis would've done a very good job on all those songs. I would've loved for Chips Moman to produce Always on my mind for Elvis. I feel that song would've been better produced with Chips.

[minkahed]

I often wonder that myself from time to time …

from sun...

to sundial.
AMEN!

I wonder what 1954 Elvis would have thought of the guy in the sundial suit?

[brian]

No, that's not it, I believe. To blame Parker for everything we don't understand, is intellectual laziness.

Publishing politics was the reason Elvis didn't go back to American. After the early years publishing politics plagued Elvis's career. All of that has been well documented. Colonel Parker does deserve blame for that.

[eligain]

I do think that Elvis maybe didn't like, or maybe (preferred not to be) "produced" by a taskmaster like Chips. So that may have played into him not going back. I think Elvis liked to fool around more and get things done faster and be in control, kind of "hold court" if you will. I think he appreciated Chips but he had been in control of his sessions since going to RCA, so Chips was the first time he had been produced since Sam Phillips. I've heard some of the guys chided him for letting Chips boss him around so I think his ego maybe came into play. Felton really just did what Elvis wanted and so was no real producer.