March 25, 1961 Hawaii show for a Legacy release?

[Greg1995]

Next year it will be 60th anniversary of this legendary gig - one of his very best concerts, Elvis in top form.
It should be available at retail - but this time taken from the original tape and not from RCA copy used for "Rock Around The Bloch".
As for the sound quality, it could be improved when working from the original source. Of course it's a not a professional sounding recording, but Sony has released tracks in much more inferior quality on a retail release "A Boy From Tupelo".
What do you think?

[Rob]

I think if this were to be released to the general public, the casual fan wouldn't understand nor appreciate the sound quality. They also may not comprehend the historical significance to make up for the sound. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I don't think I am.

If this were ever to be released and the sound was accepted, why not shortly after it happened in 1961? It could have been his first official live album.

[Mike C]

I agree and I would buy it again if taken from the original tape. Maybe a documentary detailing how it was made and located.

It is Elvis in his prime and should be avialable to a wider audience. You could pair with it the Blue Hawaii LP. Call it "Hawaiian March".

[Greg1995]

I think if this were to be released to the general public, the casual fan wouldn't understand nor appreciate the sound quality. They also may not comprehend the historical significance to make up for the sound. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I don't think I am.

If this were ever to be released and the sound was accepted, why not shortly after it happened in 1961? It could have been his first official live album.

The goal of the Legacy series is not only to release original catalogue, albums etc but they also put out rarities, outtakes etc.
People who bought "A Boy From Tupelo" were probably in majority hard-core fans, so I don't see a problem with that.
I would also buy it again if it were transferred from the original tape (I have "Rock Around The Bloch" set).

[rockinrebel]

The show has already had a mainstream release from MRS, so I really can't see it happening.

As much as I enjoy the show, I really don't think it would be successful in the mainstream market.

The Sun recordings are much better known, and in the case of the Tupelo set, whilst some substandard audio has been included for historical reasons, the majority of the set is a major upgrade over previous releases, particularly on the studio recordings, so I don't think you can compare the Hawaii show to the Sun set.

It's also worth noting, and Ernst has discussed this in the past, that if Sony went back to the original tapes and carried out restoration and remastering work, as soon as the set was issued, the recording would fall into the public domain, and Sony would not see a decent return on their investment.

[Greg1995]

The show has already had a mainstream release from MRS, so I really can't see it happening.

As much as I enjoy the show, I really don't think it would be successful in the mainstream market.

The Sun recordings are much better known, and in the case of the Tupelo set, whilst some substandard audio has been included for historical reasons, the majority of the set is a major upgrade over previous releases, particularly on the studio recordings, so I don't think you can compare the Hawaii show to the Sun set.

It's also worth noting, and Ernst has discussed this in the past, that if Sony went back to the original tapes and carried out restoration and remastering work, as soon as the set was issued, the recording would fall into the public domain, and Sony would not see a decent return on their investment.

The SUN material was also released by MRS before the Legacy release of "A Boy From Tupelo".

[rockinrebel]

The show has already had a mainstream release from MRS, so I really can't see it happening.

As much as I enjoy the show, I really don't think it would be successful in the mainstream market.

The Sun recordings are much better known, and in the case of the Tupelo set, whilst some substandard audio has been included for historical reasons, the majority of the set is a major upgrade over previous releases, particularly on the studio recordings, so I don't think you can compare the Hawaii show to the Sun set.

It's also worth noting, and Ernst has discussed this in the past, that if Sony went back to the original tapes and carried out restoration and remastering work, as soon as the set was issued, the recording would fall into the public domain, and Sony would not see a decent return on their investment.

The SUN material was also released by MRS before the Legacy release of "A Boy From Tupelo".

I know, but it's a different situation. The MRS release of the Hawaii '61 show was an affordable 2 disc set.

Their Sun releases in comparison were multi disc sets, with DVD audio etc.

Of course Sony could lay claim to having the better sources when the Tupelo set finally got a mainstream release, even though by this point, the rarities had already been reissued by MRS and the boot labels.

This is the issue with the Hawaii show. The potential for sales at retail level wouldn't be great, and the fact that the recording would be fair game for various PD labels as soon as it was released, means that the restoration work simply isn't financially viable.

[Buddy]

The sound Is too poor.
It should have at least the same sound quality as the 56 vegas recordings...

[londonflash]

It's a fantastic performance and we're fortunate to have a recording of it. That said, I can't see there being any mainstream market appeal for a 60th anniversary edition unfortunately.

[monkboughtlunch]

I think if this were to be released to the general public, the casual fan wouldn't understand nor appreciate the sound quality. They also may not comprehend the historical significance to make up for the sound. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I don't think I am.

If this were ever to be released and the sound was accepted, why not shortly after it happened in 1961? It could have been his first official live album.

The goal of the Legacy series is not only to release original catalogue, albums etc but they also put out rarities, outtakes etc.
People who bought "A Boy From Tupelo" were probably in majority hard-core fans, so I don't see a problem with that.
I would also buy it again if it were transferred from the original tape (I have "Rock Around The Bloch" set).

Is that a photo of the original master tape box?

Or is that box a copy tape of the original?

Does Sony not have the original source tape?

[Greg1995]

I think if this were to be released to the general public, the casual fan wouldn't understand nor appreciate the sound quality. They also may not comprehend the historical significance to make up for the sound. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I don't think I am.

If this were ever to be released and the sound was accepted, why not shortly after it happened in 1961? It could have been his first official live album.

The goal of the Legacy series is not only to release original catalogue, albums etc but they also put out rarities, outtakes etc.
People who bought "A Boy From Tupelo" were probably in majority hard-core fans, so I don't see a problem with that.
I would also buy it again if it were transferred from the original tape (I have "Rock Around The Bloch" set).

Is that a photo of the original master tape box?

Or is that box a copy tape of the original?

Does Sony not have the original source tape?

It's the RCA copy tape box.

[frus75]

I can’t see it happen...

Iván

Japan album lot for sale

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[monkboughtlunch]

Where’s the original tape, and does it sound superior to the copy tape RCA published?

[pmp]

I think if this were to be released to the general public, the casual fan wouldn't understand nor appreciate the sound quality. They also may not comprehend the historical significance to make up for the sound. Maybe I'm underestimating them, but I don't think I am.

If this were ever to be released and the sound was accepted, why not shortly after it happened in 1961? It could have been his first official live album.

The goal of the Legacy series is not only to release original catalogue, albums etc but they also put out rarities, outtakes etc.
People who bought "A Boy From Tupelo" were probably in majority hard-core fans, so I don't see a problem with that.
I would also buy it again if it were transferred from the original tape (I have "Rock Around The Bloch" set).

You are mixing things slightly.
Legacy is a sub-label of Sony.
Legacy Editions are a series of reissues of original albums with extra material, normally over two discs, but sometimes more.
So, while Legacy might release the show on its label, it wouldn't be as part of a Legacy Edition release unless it was the second disc with a studio album from the period on the first.

I think we have to be a bit careful regarding the "original tape." That tape is sixty years old - is it even playable? It may be that Sony can only use the one they used on Rock Around the Bloch.

But I don't see it getting a release at mainstream. It's already been on CD when the silver box was reissued twenty or so years ago, plus it's been on FTD, and it's also been on MRS. I was hoping the Silver box would have been reissued when Sony was going back and reissuing Platinum, Close-Up etc. But that, alas, didn't happen.

[rockinrebel]

Do we know whether RCA have a better source than the copy tape?

Surely the FTD book project was the ideal opportunity to upgrade the audio?

If they had a better source tape, why use an inferior source for the FTD project?

[Greg1995]

The tape belongs to the estate of DJ Ron Jacobs, who recorded it.
As far as I know, FTD has tried to contact him and use his original tape on the release but he was in bad health.

[LSP-4445]

The show belongs on FTD that it was released a few years ago and not on the main label.
I wasnt impressed with it when released officially in 1980 and I have only played the whole thing one time.
The sound is so poor that I cant enjoy it......

[rockinrebel]

The tape belongs to the estate of DJ Ron Jacobs, who recorded it.
As far as I know, FTD has tried to contact him and use his original tape on the release but he was in bad health.

Thanks for the info. So it's more likely that the producers would have to work with the copy tape for any proposed mainstream release then?

If that's the case, it would be unlikely to sound any better than the MRS release.

Unless they got Giles Martin to work on it, but then we are back to the question of the project being financially viable.

[monkboughtlunch]

The 1961 performance is superb. The poor audio fidelity and spliced edits are unfortunate. I've always wondered if a superior sounding tape exists.

1. If the photo of the tape box is the copy tape RCA used for the Elvis Aaron Presley box set (1980), it tells me the master tape may indeed sound better.
2. Note that the copy tape box is a consumer-grade 7 inch reel designed for machines with a maximum tape speed of 7.5 ips.
3. This tells us that DJ Ron Jacobs probably made the dub himself for RCA. We can conclude this because if he had loaned his original tape (presumably 7" at 7.5 ips) to RCA, the RCA engineers would have most likely recorded their dub copy at a professional grade of 15 ips on pro-grade tape to archive it for RCA's vaults.
4. If I recall correctly, there are also splices in the released RCA copy tape version from the 1980 EAP box. Didn't Reconsider Baby have a splice from tape damage? Unclear if that damage exists on the original master or only on the copy tape RCA used.
5. We also don't know when Jacobs made the dub tape for RCA. That tape box looks like 1960s era Scotch tape...

Regardless, I think it is worthwhile for Sony to explore trying to obtain the original master tape from the Jacobs family. It may sound significantly better and may not have the splice damage heard in the released RCA version.

I've read that Jacobs may have taped the original event by holding a mic next to a PA speaker. Has anyone confirmed this? The notes on the RCA copy box say "not direct," which suggests the original master tape is not a soundboard recording. But that wording on the tape box could also be viewed as ambiguous. What if the original tape was direct from a soundboard, but the copy tape made for RCA (presumably by Jacobs) was not direct?

Ultimately, the recording is precious and important. I'd love to hear what someone like a Vic Anesini could do with the original master tape. Of course, it appears to be an offline recording, probably originally recorded at 7.5 ips, but with access to the master tape, maybe it can made to be sound better, especially with better EQ, than what RCA released 40 years ago on the EAP box.

[monkboughtlunch]

I think we have to be a bit careful regarding the "original tape." That tape is sixty years old - is it even playable? It may be that Sony can only use the one they used on Rock Around the Bloch.

Tapes from the 1950s and 1960s can be remarkably resilient if stored under decent conditions. In the early 1970s, tape manufacturers changed from whale lard to synthetics which results in the infamous "sticky shed syndrome" when 1970s era tapes are played back. This is why some 1970s era tapes have to be baked in an oven before playback.

It appears that Sony does not own (or did not own as of several years ago) the original master recording.

[drjohncarpenter]

The show has already had a mainstream release from MRS ...

The SUN material was also released by MRS ...

[Mike C]

The tape belongs to the estate of DJ Ron Jacobs, who recorded it.
As far as I know, FTD has tried to contact him and use his original tape on the release but he was in bad health.

Jacobs passed away in March 2016. But he was the DJ who taped the show and gave out a few copies to handful of folks, one of whom the late Vic Colanna met and befriended. You would hope his estate would understand the significance of the tape and make a deal with Sony. Perhaps, they think the tape is worth much more than it actually is.

[pmp]

I think we have to be a bit careful regarding the "original tape." That tape is sixty years old - is it even playable? It may be that Sony can only use the one they used on Rock Around the Bloch.

Tapes from the 1950s and 1960s can be remarkably resilient if stored under decent conditions. In the early 1970s, tape manufactures changed from whale lard to synthetics which results in the infamous "sticky shed syndrome" when 1970s era tapes are played back. This is why some 1970s era tapes have to be baked in an oven before playback.

It appears that Sony does not own (or did not own as of several years ago) the original master recording.

While I appreciate your glass half full stance, nobody knows what state that tape would be in today, or how it has been kept.

[monkboughtlunch]

So did RCA obtain their copy of the Hawaii show from a dub Jacobs made? Or did RCA obtain a dub of the copy tape used for the 1978 bootleg by Vic?

===============

http://altomelvis.dk/temaer/elvis-bootlegs-2/chapter-8/

"Cary” handed us a tape of the 1961 Hawaii concert. He went on to explain that only half a dozen people in the world had a copy and that the performance was recorded by the disc jockey associated with the radio station promoting the show. He had placed a reel–to–reel tape recorder, microphone attached, on a table at the back of the stage. A famous actor became a friend of said disc jockey and happened to be an Elvis fan. Mr. Actor got a copy, apparently only the third or fourth one ever given out. “Cary” met Mr. Actor over some business deal, they became friends, and when it was revealed “Cary” was an Elvis fan, he was given a copy of the concert. “Cary” had had this tape for years. He never told a soul. He said it was ours to enjoy but it could not be given to anyone else. I asked if I could share it with Paul and “Cary” said that would be permissible. He knew my word was good as gold and if I vouched for Paul, that was all he needed to hear."

[elvis-fan]

It should be available at retail - but this time taken from the original tape and not from RCA copy used for "Rock Around The Bloch".
As for the sound quality, it could be improved when working from the original source...

Wishful thinking... but I believe it's pretty safe to assume that RATB is the last official release you'll see of that show in our lifetime...