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"If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by drjohncarpenter »

"... Old Shep has a wonderful home."


360100_Conquerer 8631.JPG

Originally recorded as a solo vocal and guitar piece by Red Foley in December 1935, and released as Conqueror 8631 around the time of Elvis' first birthday in January 1936, Presley's master of "Old Shep" taped twenty years later has come to be reviled by certain segments of the Presley fan base.




..

Elvis Presley "Old Shep" Elvis (RCA Victor LPM 1382, October 1956)



Besides appearing on Elvis' second LP for RCA, the song was included on an EP called Elvis, Volume 2 (RCA EPA 993, November 1956), along with three other tracks from the LP.

And, amazingly, from that EP "Old Shep" became a HIT!

It CHARTED in Billboard's "Top 100," reaching #47 in the last issue of the year.


Billboard Dec 29 1956 p28.JPG
Billboard - December 29, 1956
Elvis tunes appear at #2, #7, #26, #38, #54, #54 (yes, twice: 2 songs tied), #78 and #93.
What a year for the kid from Tupelo.



Listening today, more than sixty years later, we hear in "Old Shep" an incredible, utterly sincere performance. Taped at West Hollywood's Radio Recorders in September 1956, Elvis lays it all on the line, leading the way on piano, clearly remembering the painful death of his own dog, Tex, from mange.

Too bad he couldn't have sung "Old Tex" instead, but that might have pushed emotions too far forward to complete even one take.


You get in moods sometimes where you're very happy, you get in moods where you're very sad, where everything looks dark and gloomy, and it looks like there's nothing for you in life. I guess everybody feels that way, it's human nature.

Yes. And on that song that you do, "Old Shep," I suppose that you were feeling that when you were singing about ol' Shep?

Yes, because I had a dog that the same thing happened to.

What was your dog's name?

My dog was named Tex. But he had mange real bad and they had to kill him.


- radio interview with Buddy - circa early 1957


Let's also not forget it was with "Old Shep" that Elvis made his stage debut.

Mrs. Oleta Grimes, his fifth grade teacher at East Tupelo Consolidated, had been so impressed by his singing at school that she brought him to the principal, Mr. Cole, who in turn entered the 10 year-old in the WELO radio talent contest on "Children's Day" -- Wednesday, October 3, 1945 -- part of the annual "Mississippi-Alabama Fair and Dairy Show" at the Tupelo Fairgrounds.



Image

At the Mississippi-Alabama Fair and Dairy Show talent contest in Tupelo - Wednesday, October 3, 1945
Elvis is second from the right, first place winner Shirley Gillentine fourth from the left, second place winner Nubin Payne fourth from the right.



Elvis won fifth place for his acapella, standing-on-a-chair version of "Old Shep," and later a whipping from Gladys. In his July 1972 MGM interview he remembered, "I wore glasses, no music, and I won, I think it was fifth place in this state talent contest. I got a whipping the same day, my mother whipped me for something, I don't know, [going on] one of the rides. Destroyed my ego completely."



Friend, actor, songwriter and bodyguard Bobby "Red" West revealed in the stunning 2018 HBO documentary "Elvis Presley: The Searcher" that the Humes High talent show, likely part of the school's annual "carnival" benefit on March 27, 1953, was won by Elvis singing ... "Old Shep."



Image


I had a little four piece band, I was playing the trumpet, and Elvis had his guitar and he got up and sang "Old Shep," Red Foley's sad song about his old dog that died.

Singing that tearjerker, he put emotion into it, sang the heck out of it. And he won first place (laughs). And my little band didn't do sh
'it.

- Red West, "Elvis Presley: The Searcher" (April 2018)


So it is beyond debate that "Old Shep" as done by Elvis blew people away. Later we would learn this included some very famous artists.

One of them, Lubbock, Texas singer-songwriter Mac Davis, told Elvis when they first met that, of all songs, "Old Shep" struck him to the core. Mac was a bit of a talisman in Presley's renaissance period (1968-1970).

Read a cool interview with him here:

Mac Davis on Elvis --> "Beyond My Wildest Dreams"
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53569

And I also recall reading an article shortly after Elvis died, where another famous musician gave props to the Presley song that changed his life:


Hollywood Hotline —

John Denver’s Originality Inspired By Another Original -- Elvis Presley

By NANCY ANDERSON


HOLLYWOOD - John Denver says that when he was 12 years old he suffered a bout with measles which kept him in bed for two weeks during which time he heard a singer whose style was so original and so moving that he, Denver, was inspired.

“I didn’t want to copy him,” Denver says, “but after hearing him I knew that I wanted to sing in my own way.” In other words, the originality of the singer he heard, convinced young John that he could dare to be original too.

So, during his opening performance at Harrah’s at Tahoe, Nev., on Aug. 26, he dedicated a song to the man who’d inspired him.

The song was “Old Shep,” and at its close Denver said, “That’s for you, Elvis.” He explained to his audience that Elvis had recorded "Shep” as the flip side of one of his early hits.

But he didn’t say because he didn't know that “Shep” was the first song Elvis ever sang publicly for strangers.

He was in the fifth grade when his teacher persuaded him to sing the song in a talent contest at a fair.

I don’t know whether or not he won, but I know the teacher said there was hardly a dry eye in the audience when the little boy finished his performance.

Now back to Denver:

His stand at Harrah’s, Aug. 26 through Sept. 4, was his only live public appearance in this country this year, though the public will have plenty of chance to see him in his first movie, “Oh, God,” for Warner’s, co-starring George Burns in the title role.

Supporting Denver’s ecologist image, the stage at Harrah’s was dressed with hanging baskets of ferns, airplane plants, etc., and several of his songs were illustrated with moving pictures of blowing wheat fields. soaring birds, mountains, trees and other wonders of nature.

Denver’s opening night performance was larded with the songs which made him famous including “Annie’s Song,” “Annie’s Other Song," “Rocky Mountain High” which he described as his very favorite song, and “Thank God I’m a Country Boy.”

Denver says he’d gotten so tired of “Thank God I’m a Country Boy” that for a while he didn’t want to sing it but that, after he became interested in the problem of world hunger which he thinks can be solved within the next score of years, he changed his attitude toward the song.

"I think we can end world hunger within the next 10 or 20 years,” Denver says, “and, if we don’t, maybe it’ll be because I’m not doing my part.

“I’ve found out that the American farmer produces 30 per cent more than any other farmer in the world, so now I say thank God I am a country boy.

“Now I love to sing the song.”

Annie, Denver’s wife who usually accompanies him to club and concert engagements, wasn’t at Harrah’s on his opening night because, he explained, she wasn’t feeling well.

However, she was well remembered not only in “Annie’s Song” and “Annie’s Other Song” but in “How Can I Leave You Again?,” a bit of musical self-examination Denver wrote the day after Christmas when he had to fly away from home to Los Angeles to finish his picture for Warner’s. “Annie had thought I was going to be home for a week at Christmas,” he says, “but I didn’t get there until Christmas Eve, and she was pretty ticked off.”

On opening night, Denver sang “How Can I Leave You Again?” without the orchestra, because the orchestration hadn’t arrived at Tahoe in time for the show.

His engagement had been sold out for weeks before it began, and though a minimum of $25 was being charged for dinner in the show room opening night, nobody in the audience seemed to begrudge a penny of that the dinner show was costing as the crowd reacted with whoops, applause and standing ovations.

One table, however, appeared more interested in Presley than in Denver, since, throughout a considerable segment of the concert, its occupants were debating:

“Did Elvis really record Old Shep?”’

Denver isn’t the new Elvis Presley, because that’s not his goal, and because be couldn’t realize it if it were. Nobody could.

On the other hand, nobody will ever be a new John Denver.

Like the singer who inspired him when he was 12, he’s an original.


Desert Sun, Thursday, October 13, 1977
https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DS19771013.2.165

"That’s for you, Elvis."

Wow.

Note this John Denver interview was conducted by Nancy Anderson, who covered Elvis in Hollywood for nearly twenty years and interviewed him several times.


561000_Old Shep sheet music.JPG
"Old Shep" sheet music, circa October 1956 - Autographed by Elvis and Sam Phillips!!
- From the estate of Dan Oberholtz, AKA prominent Kansas City area disc jockey "Dan Diamond"
http://www.popculturesignatures.com/elprsamphaus.html

Thanks to Mister Moon for the link.


Given the history in front of us, it's not difficult to imagine Elvis singing "Old Shep" to Sam Phillips at 706 Union as a possible Sun recording, back in 1954-1955. Phillips recalled that many sessions found them going through lots and lots of ballads before getting to the r&b, pop and country material that the producer really wanted to capture on tape.



R.I.P. Tex.
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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by midnightx »

"Old Shep" is one of Elvis' most heartfelt, emotional vocals from the 1950's.



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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Rockin_John »

..


The original is just another song for me, but Elvis takes this to a completely different level.

This is one of the songs that truly shows Elvis abilities to convey emotion through song. You can feel the despair and sadness.
What happened to his creativity during the sixties?

He made good recordings all through his career, but the originality slowly faded away...


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Yvosus »

Fantastic post Doc as always ! Thank you very much. Old Shep is one of my favorites. The John Denver story is so moving. Great singer by the way.

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by colonel snow »

Addition:
Besides the original version recorded on 9 december 1935 Red Foley re-recorded the song several times:

4 march 1941 - released on Decca 5944;
18 january 1944 - unreleased on Decca label;
31 july 1946 - released on Decca 46052.

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Steve Morse »

I've never disliked the Elvis recording.

However, I have never liked "I can do no more for him Jim" - it's a rather cringe-worthy bit of rhyming. If Elvis had made 'more' last over 2 beats, then he could have omitted 'Jim'.

The full lyrics tell a slightly different story of Old Shep according to this Internet link https://genius.com/Red-foley-old-shep-lyrics

When I was a lad and Old Shep was a pup
O'er hills and meadows we'd stray
Just a boy and his dog, we both full of fun
We grew up together that way

I remember the time at the old swimmin' hole
When I would have drowned beyond doubt
Shep was right there, to the rescue he came
He jumped in and helped pull me out

So the years sped along and at last he grew old
His eyesight was fast growin' dim
Then one day, the doctor looked at me and said
"I can't do no more for him, Jim"

With a hand that was tremblin', I picked up my gun
I aimed it at Shep's faithful head
I just couldn't do it, I wanted to run
And I wished that they'd shoot me instead

I went to his side and I sat on the ground
He laid his head on my knee
I stroked the best pal that a man ever found
I cried, so I scarcely could see

Old Sheppie, he knew he was goin' to go
For he reached out and licked at my hand
He looked up at me, just as much as to say
"We're parting, but you understand"

Now Old Shep is gone where the good doggies go
And no more with Old Shep will I roam
But if dogs have a heaven, there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home


'Stroked' became 'struck' in Elvis's slightly truncated version, in which the story doesn't make complete sense. But I guess many 'folk' songs emerged with varying lyrics in the days before printed or recorded versions became the norm.


"Won't you sing me away to a summer night - let me hold her in my arms again"

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Hobbes »

Nice topic. Old Shep is part of the Elvis folklore. It’s the first song - or one of the first - where Elvis as a kid learned how to use music to affect people’s emotions. I think author Elain Dundy referred to it as one of Elvis’s old standbys when he was asked by adults to sing.

And on the 1956 recording, he could have sung this song in an over the top way but he doesn’t. The restraint ends up adding to the emotional impact. And I think it fits nicely on the “Elvis” album.



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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by r&b »

Elvis sang ballads so plainly and so simply in the 50's, but so heartfelt, all of them without the least bit of bombast or oversinging. I'll take a ballad from the 50's over any from the 70's, dont need the over dramatic readings on those songs. This song I never really appreciated until the 80's, when I really stared to appreciate the difference in his voice thru the years. The 50's win out every time.




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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by poppii »

I am reading the Freedland book about Elvis . He interviews people from Tupleo to Memphis....schoolfriends and cousins and according to them Elvis was singing Old Shep all the time when he was young.
And the way they tell it is that he said he wanted to enter the contest above mentioned and they said, he could, as long as he DIDN'T sing Old Shep . They were fed up of hearing it. And what does he do.....he goes up and sings Old Shep and wins 5th prize which was $5 . Same one where he stands on a chair, no music and wearing glasses.

He looks so cute .
Last edited by poppii on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Juan Luis »

This song had no business being included on The King Of Rock and Roll's second album. Dog or no dog.



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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by MikeFromHolland »

Steve Morse on Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:25 pm wrote:I've never disliked the Elvis recording.

However, I have never liked "I can do no more for him Jim" - it's a rather cringe-worthy bit of rhyming. If Elvis had made 'more' last over 2 beats, then he could have omitted 'Jim'.

The full lyrics tell a slightly different story of Old Shep according to this Internet link https://genius.com/Red-foley-old-shep-lyrics

When I was a lad and Old Shep was a pup
O'er hills and meadows we'd stray
Just a boy and his dog, we both full of fun
We grew up together that way

I remember the time at the old swimmin' hole
When I would have drowned beyond doubt
Shep was right there, to the rescue he came
He jumped in and helped pull me out

So the years sped along and at last he grew old
His eyesight was fast growin' dim
Then one day, the doctor looked at me and said
"I can't do no more for him, Jim"

With a hand that was tremblin', I picked up my gun
I aimed it at Shep's faithful head
I just couldn't do it, I wanted to run
And I wished that they'd shoot me instead

I went to his side and I sat on the ground
He laid his head on my knee
I stroked the best pal that a man ever found
I cried, so I scarcely could see

Old Sheppie, he knew he was goin' to go
For he reached out and licked at my hand
He looked up at me, just as much as to say
"We're parting, but you understand"

Now Old Shep is gone where the good doggies go
And no more with Old Shep will I roam
But if dogs have a heaven, there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home


'Stroked' became 'struck' in Elvis's slightly truncated version, in which the story doesn't make complete sense. But I guess many 'folk' songs emerged with varying lyrics in the days before printed or recorded versions became the norm.


Some remarks about the changes Elvis made to the original lyrics as stated in this book:
Handbook of Psychobiography - Cover.png


From Chapter 10 "Twelve Ways To Say 'Lonesome': Assessing Error And Control In The Music Of Elvis Presley" by Alan A. Elms and Bruce Heller.
Handbook of Psychobiography - William Todd Schultz - 01 Old Shep.png
Handbook of Psychobiography - William Todd Schultz - 02 Old Shep.png



Source: https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Psychobiography-William-Todd-Schultz/dp/0195168275




Bonus
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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Ryan73 »

Definitely one of my favourite Elvis recordings. I rarely play it though as being a dog lover it's always hard to heard. Great performance and glad he recorded it.



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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Steve Morse »

Re. Some remarks about the changes Elvis made to the original lyrics as stated in this book:

Very interesting, Mike, but to my way of thinking, the conclusions are a bit of a stretch.

Elvis often omitted verses from songs and I think it is more likely that the 1956 recording is the way he'd always sung the song, though doubtless being aware of the alternative (original?) lyrics.


"Won't you sing me away to a summer night - let me hold her in my arms again"

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Note: "Old Shep" was a HIT in 1956, and I have added this to the original post. Take a peek!

-----

In the 1970s, "Old Shep" was not forgotten.

RCA slotted the ballad to close the budget LP Separate Ways (RCA Camden CAS 2611, January 20, 1973), so it reached new ears then.

There are known examples of audience members yelling it out, or Presley doing a one-liner:


2-23-1970 CS (Las Vegas)
2-19-1971 MS (Las Vegas)
11-09-1972 (Tucson)
5-06-1973 MS (Lake Tahoe)
8-12-1973 MS (Las Vegas)
6-24-1977 (Madison)


But Elvis never took the request seriously.


451003_Tupelo_WELO Fifth Place.JPG


..

On stage in Madison - Friday, June 24, 1977

"'Old Shep' ... my God. I've haven't done 'Old Shep' since I was eight years old, a mere child."
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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Rockin_John »

drjohncarpenter on Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:14 pm wrote:


..

On stage in Madison - Friday, June 24, 1977

That's some really good 8 mm footage. The original source must have looked great. Too bad Elvis is stoned, sick and in no condition to be on stage. :cry:


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by MikeFromHolland »

Steve Morse on Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:26 pm wrote:Re. Some remarks about the changes Elvis made to the original lyrics as stated in this book:

Very interesting, Mike.
You're welcome.

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Rockin_John on Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:32 pm wrote:That's some really good 8 mm footage.
This may be the only footage in concert where we see him acknowledge "Old Shep."


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by elvisjock »

drjohncarpenter on Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:14 pm wrote:Note: "Old Shep" was a HIT in 1956, and I have added this to the original post. Take a peek!

-----

In the 1970s, "Old Shep" was not forgotten.

RCA slotted the ballad to close the budget LP Separate Ways (RCA Camden CAS 2611, January 20, 1973), so it reached new ears then.

There are known examples of audience members yelling it out, or Presley doing a one-liner:


2-23-1970 CS (Las Vegas)
2-19-1971 MS (Las Vegas)
11-09-1972 (Tucson)
5-06-1973 MS (Lake Tahoe)
8-12-1973 MS (Las Vegas)
6-24-1977 (Madison)


But Elvis never took the request seriously.


451003_Tupelo_WELO Fifth Place.JPG


..

On stage in Madison - Friday, June 24, 1977

"'Old Shep' ... my God. I've haven't done 'Old Shep' since I was eight years old, a mere child."
"And leave the driving to Stump."


"Don't tell me to play it. I will when I get ready. Do you understand me?"

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Simon1 »

Nice childs song but of course not suited anymore to a star of Elvis' stature when he recorded it. And talk about maudlin....


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by colonel snow »

A few more early versions:

10-06-38 - Jackie & Leslie (Decca 5575);
26-08-40 - Dick Powell & The Foursome (Decca 3389);
00-10-40 - Pine Ridge Boys (Bluebird 8556 / Montgomery Ward 8878 /RCA 20-2403);
30-06-44 - Wilf Carter (Montana Slim) - Canadian Bluebird 55-3219;
04-10-46 - Wesley Tuttle (Capitol 40146 /Capitol 48007);
00-03-47 - Doye O'Dell (Exclusive 15X);
00-04-47 - Denver Darling & his Smokey Mountain Hillbillies (DeLuxe 5036).


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Steve Morse »

Juan Luis on Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:16 pm wrote:This song had no business being included on The King Of Rock and Roll's second album. Dog or no dog.
I don't agree, Juan. We otherwise may never have had a recording of a hugely significant song from Elvis's formative years.

I may have first heard it on a borrowed Strictly Elvis E.P. in 1963-64 but when I bought the LP in 1964, the selection of songs was obviously a "fait accompli" and, therefore, just an accepted part of that album.

Because of the Jordanaires part in the recording, it has shades of doo-wop, too. *It is what it is", as they say, and I'm glad we have it.


"Won't you sing me away to a summer night - let me hold her in my arms again"

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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Mike Windgren »

Hi there!! :D :D :D.

Love this song! :smt020.

From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! 8). It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

Image
Elvis-RCA Victor LPM-1382. Released in 10-19-1956.
Copies with matrix numbers G2WP-7208-15S, G2WP-7208-17S, or G2WP-7208-19S stamped on Side 2 (Side 1 doesn't matter) are likely candidates to contain the alternate take of Old Shep which contain an added word in two different phrases. Words in upper case are added in the alternative take: "As the years fast did roll, Old Shep he grew old AND his eyes were fast growing dim." and "He came to my side and he looked up at me, and HE laid his old head on my knee."


..

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded! ::rocks. Bye for now :smt006.

Image

Image

Image

Source: https://www.elvisrecords.com/lpm-1382-elvis/ / https://www.elvisrecords.com/eternal-elvis/ / http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-sessions/560902.html#04


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

Post by Juan Luis »

Steve Morse on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:35 am wrote:
Juan Luis on Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:16 pm wrote:This song had no business being included on The King Of Rock and Roll's second album. Dog or no dog.
I don't agree, Juan. We otherwise may never have had a recording of a hugely significant song from Elvis's formative years.

I may have first heard it on a borrowed Strictly Elvis E.P. in 1963-64 but when I bought the LP in 1964, the selection of songs was obviously a "fait accompli" and, therefore, just an accepted part of that album.

Because of the Jordanaires part in the recording, it has shades of doo-wop, too. *It is what it is", as they say, and I'm glad we have it.
I just meant on that album. Not that it couldn't be included on an EP or B-side, the future "For LP Fans Only" etc. I never did get the love for it ever. Same with the 1956 "Love Me Tender".



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Mike Windgren on Sun 29 Apr 2018 12:39 pm wrote:
From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! 8). It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded!
Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.


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Re: "If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

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Spellbinder wrote:
Mike Windgren on Sun 29 Apr 2018 12:39 pm wrote:
From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! 8). It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded!
Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.
Wasn't the alternate take included on the original UK Rock n Roll No. 2?


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