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GuyLambert wrote:ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…
Hi Guys:
I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.
Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month.
http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite
Well, what a nice surprise. I will have to seek out the new MOJO for your article alone!GuyLambert wrote:ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…
Hi Guys:
I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.
Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month.
http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite
Marion Keisker:
No, it was just a demo of a record called, Without You. It was a single voice, apparently a black man playing a guitar and singing. So Sam immediately tried to contact the songwriter, whom I think was a woman in Nashville, and finally found her and said, “Who’s that artist, I want them to make that record, I want to release that record just as it is, I need to get another side and we’ll release it.” And this woman, whose name I don’t know, said that she didn’t know who the singer was. He had made the demo in a Nashville studio and they had called in somebody that sang this song, Without You.
Sam says, “Well, I give up. I sure wanted that.” And I said, “You know, that reminds me of the kid with the sideburns. I bet he could do that song.” And Sam said, “Oh I don’t even know his name, I don’t know how to get in touch with him.” I said, “I do!” and went under my blotter and pulled out the name and he says, “Well give him a call,” and I called him and said, “Mr. Phillips would like you to come over, he’d like to hear you, try you on a song.” I think I was still on the phone when Elvis came panting in with his guitar. He’d run all the way!
Sam didn’t like the way Elvis did Without You, and said he never recorded it. Sam says there never was such a record but I had a copy of it because I loved it so much that I made a copy! I have given it to a person who asked me not to identify him, because he doesn’t wish to be besieged by people. Obviously it’s a very valuable, one-of-a-kind record.
But it has been taped and included on the program they have been presenting at Memphis State. And every time it’s included in the medley of Elvis songs, people think that it is Elvis singing that song. Which is very strange because Sam rejected him as a possibility of doing that song. I said later, “This story has been taken out of context and used in many different ways, the only time it occurred was later when Elvis came back and listened to the song and he would beat his head and say, “Why can’t I do that, listen to that voice, listen to that tone!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6wkwkp2PIE
Hi Doc, I look forward to you reading it and hearing your thoughts. I couldn't believe it when I put two and two together.drjohncarpenter wrote:Well, what a nice surprise. I will have to seek out the new MOJO for your article alone!GuyLambert wrote:ELVIS: THE LAST MYSTERY Without You was the record Sam Phillips asked Elvis to emulate at his key audition, but who was its anonymous singer? Maybe now, finally, he can be named…
Hi Guys:
I have a feature article in the latest issue of Mojo Magazine about a recent discovery I made re the mystery singer of Without You.
Available Tuesday, Aug 22 in the UK and will hit the States in about a month.
http://www.mojo4music.com/25650/mojo-287-dave-grohl-foo-fighters-nirvana/?platform=hootsuite
From what I know, there are actually two stories about "Without You." Sam Phillips recalls he picked up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got an unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when he cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.*
* Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins, Good Rockin' Tonight: Sun Records and the Birth of Rock 'n' Roll (New York: St. Martin's Press, 1992).
Sadly, the full demo of "Without You" has never been issued, although a small segment was aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody." It pops up on the internet from time to time, and FECC member Keith has it on his site:
http://www.keithflynn.com/audio/withoutyouoriginal.MP3
There is still a glimmer of hope, however faint, that a reference acetate of Elvis trying "Without You" still exists. But we're now at the 63rd year of waiting, and nothing has surfaced. Maybe it's now half a glimmer.
-----
Found this in the comments of a YouTube video:
Marion Keisker:
No, it was just a demo of a record called, Without You. It was a single voice, apparently a black man playing a guitar and singing. So Sam immediately tried to contact the songwriter, whom I think was a woman in Nashville, and finally found her and said, “Who’s that artist, I want them to make that record, I want to release that record just as it is, I need to get another side and we’ll release it.” And this woman, whose name I don’t know, said that she didn’t know who the singer was. He had made the demo in a Nashville studio and they had called in somebody that sang this song, Without You.
Sam says, “Well, I give up. I sure wanted that.” And I said, “You know, that reminds me of the kid with the sideburns. I bet he could do that song.” And Sam said, “Oh I don’t even know his name, I don’t know how to get in touch with him.” I said, “I do!” and went under my blotter and pulled out the name and he says, “Well give him a call,” and I called him and said, “Mr. Phillips would like you to come over, he’d like to hear you, try you on a song.” I think I was still on the phone when Elvis came panting in with his guitar. He’d run all the way!
Sam didn’t like the way Elvis did Without You, and said he never recorded it. Sam says there never was such a record but I had a copy of it because I loved it so much that I made a copy! I have given it to a person who asked me not to identify him, because he doesn’t wish to be besieged by people. Obviously it’s a very valuable, one-of-a-kind record.
But it has been taped and included on the program they have been presenting at Memphis State. And every time it’s included in the medley of Elvis songs, people think that it is Elvis singing that song. Which is very strange because Sam rejected him as a possibility of doing that song. I said later, “This story has been taken out of context and used in many different ways, the only time it occurred was later when Elvis came back and listened to the song and he would beat his head and say, “Why can’t I do that, listen to that voice, listen to that tone!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6wkwkp2PIE
The citation does not tell us which Lichter book the statement is taken from, but it must be from one of his books because the date of the call is incorrect. Marion contacted Elvis on 6-26-1954 (Sat) to come down to the studio and try out the song with Sam.MikeFromHolland wrote:Came across this on Wikipedia:
A Paul Lichter fantasy I guess?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Elvis_Presley_on_the_Sun_label
The Marion Keisker interview posted above indicates she saved a full copy, and it may have been the one donated to MSU. My understanding about the demo is that the main issue was fans not wanting a non-Elvis cut on the 2012 collection.kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists, it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.
Gaining permission to use was a possible issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.
Kevan Budd.
drjohncarpenter wrote:My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.
This?George Smith wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.
100%, John (and thanks for the nod).
Among other things, yes.drjohncarpenter wrote:This?George Smith wrote:drjohncarpenter wrote:My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.
100%, John (and thanks for the nod).
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=97574&p=1606678#p1606678
Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.
Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.
It was shortlisted for inclusion.
Kevan Budd.
Doc, you made me nervous re the date, I had to check what I wrote. Luckily I got it right, June. I will say that I'm thrilled that Greil Marcus agreed with my findings and was instrumental in getting this piece published in Mojo.drjohncarpenter wrote:The citation does not tell us which Lichter book the statement is taken from, but it must be from one of his books because the date of the call is incorrect. Marion contacted Elvis on 6-26-1954 (Sat) to come down to the studio and try out the song with Sam.MikeFromHolland wrote:Came across this on Wikipedia:
A Paul Lichter fantasy I guess?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_songs_recorded_by_Elvis_Presley_on_the_Sun_label
The archived disc has been mentioned in many previous books, such as Greil Marcus' Mystery Train. He noted it being played at MSU in 1979, for a gathered audience.
The Marion Keisker interview posted above indicates she saved a full copy, and it may have been the one donated to MSU. My understanding about the demo is that the main issue was fans not wanting a non-Elvis cut on the 2012 collection.kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists, it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.
Gaining permission to use was a possible issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.
Kevan Budd.
My feeling was that it would have been an essential addition.
Hi Guy,GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.
Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.
It was shortlisted for inclusion.
Kevan Budd.
Excellent. Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong.GuyLambert wrote: Doc, you made me nervous re the date, I had to check what I wrote. Luckily I got it right, June. I will say that I'm thrilled that Greil Marcus agreed with my findings and was instrumental in getting this piece published in Mojo.
It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.kevanbudd wrote:Hi Guy,GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.
I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..
The info came direct from Ernst.
Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Just realized you're who you are. Thank you for all the great work you've done, I'm a long time fan. Re the Phillips family, I understand how the connection with the demo was made.kevanbudd wrote:Hi Guy,GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.
Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.
It was shortlisted for inclusion.
Kevan Budd.
I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..
The info came direct from Ernst.
Kevan Budd.
Hi Guy,GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Just realized you're who you are. Thank you for all the great work you've done, I'm a long time fan. Re the Phillips family, I understand how the connection with the demo was made.kevanbudd wrote:Hi Guy,GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.
Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.
It was shortlisted for inclusion.
Kevan Budd.
I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..
The info came direct from Ernst.
Kevan Budd.
Doc, when I made the discovery of who the mystery singer was, I contacted Greil to get his thoughts, because I grew up on that beautiful paragraph out of his book Mystery Train regarding Without You. When he agreed with my findings, I thought it would be awesome if he was the one who wrote about the discovery, it would carry more weight than if I tried to get it published. He graciously encouraged it was my discovery, and I should be the one to reveal it. He helped with editing and we both agreed Mojo would be an excellent place for the article. Greil put me in touch with Mojo's editor who loved the story and agreed to publish it.drjohncarpenter wrote:Excellent. Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong.GuyLambert wrote: Doc, you made me nervous re the date, I had to check what I wrote. Luckily I got it right, June. I will say that I'm thrilled that Greil Marcus agreed with my findings and was instrumental in getting this piece published in Mojo.
Care to share how Marcus helped you out?
Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.drjohncarpenter wrote:It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.kevanbudd wrote:Hi Guy,GuyLambert wrote:Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.
I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..
The info came direct from Ernst.
Kevan Budd.
Very cool! Some here tend to denigrate Greil Marcus whenever I bring him up, but from my view he's been an important voice on Elvis and his stunning music for over 40 years.GuyLambert wrote:Doc, when I made the discovery of who the mystery singer was, I contacted Greil to get his thoughts, because I grew up on that beautiful paragraph out of his book Mystery Train regarding Without You. When he agreed with my findings, I thought it would be awesome if he was the one who wrote about the discovery, it would carry more weight than if I tried to get it published. He graciously encouraged it was my discovery, and I should be the one to reveal it. He helped with editing and we both agreed Mojo would be an excellent place for the article. Greil put me in touch with Mojo's editor who loved the story and agreed to publish it.drjohncarpenter wrote:Excellent. Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong.
Care to share how Marcus helped you out?
That was my assumption, but thought the additional topic input implied otherwise. For me, Marion Keisker is a huge, huge key to understanding and appreciating the Presley Sun years. As Elvis put it, nothing would have ever happened had it not been for her.GuyLambert wrote:Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.drjohncarpenter wrote:It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.
If he'd done that he would never have discovered what he discovereddrjohncarpenter wrote: Stick with the wisdom of FECC, you can't go wrong.
Ok, so 99% sure the MSU tale is a fantasy after all.GuyLambert wrote:Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.drjohncarpenter wrote:
It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.
The University of Memphis does play into the story.MikeFromHolland wrote:Ok, so 99% sure the MSU tale is a fantasy after all.GuyLambert wrote:Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.drjohncarpenter wrote:
It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.
.