Pied Piper Of Cleveland/ Exhibit

[iamhekev]

I thought an EP fan was someone who bought his music...1st and foremost.


EPE = $$$ = crap.


Just "my" view.

[ColinB]

EPCOLLECTOR -

You wrote:

I would say that a person willing to spend 10k on a shirt worn by Elvis, or thousands of dollars for footage of Elvis is certainly a "true fan."
The devotion of a fan not willing to PAY for the privilage, is a "true fan" who should be questioned.
By implying that those of us "in the circle" are not fans is again insulting.....strike 2.

I would say that the devotion of a fan cannot be measured by the size of their wallet or bank balance.

A fan, so penniless that they can't afford a single CD, may more devoted than a rich fan who buys everything.

Come on, guys, what do the rest of you think ?

[ColinB]

EPCOLLECTOR -

You wrote:

I do not believe that the amount of money spent on Elvis product, whether it be cd's or artifacts is the measure of devotion.

I'm sorry, I thought that was exactly what you said.

And:

However I do believe that those of us who spend thousands of dollars of Elvis items, should not be frowned upon.

We don't frown on you for spending the money.

But for keeping info from the rest of us lowly 'ordinary' fans.

As you pointed out you "Don't care about the opinions of Elvis fans not within the circle".

Well, I care about all the fans, in the circle, out of the circle, rich and poor, and I even care about you.

[Delboy]

EPCOLLECTOR,

Let me ask you this question. If (God forbid) anything happened to you, what would you do with your collection? Chances are you would leave it to someone who cares about it a great deal less than you do, and would likely sell it. I can't buy into the argument that someone who spends 10k on a shirt is a bigger fan than the rest, they just have more money.

Take the guy who leaked the EOT stuff. I agree he's caused major disruptions in the collecting and Turner/EPE worlds but it's nothing compared to the pleasure fans have enjoyed who otherwise wouldn't have had the chance.

It's swings and roundabouts as we say in the UK!

[Steve_M]

Hmmm.....I see both sides but I think the confusion is that a "true collector" is being mixed up with a "true fan".

I came to that conclusion based upon the example of the price tag on ashirt.

If a collector would spend 10k on a shirt would he spend 10 million on a shirt ?
The answer for me is an assuming "no" so that means that although he wouldn't dislike Elvis any the less, therefore still as much a fan, he would have not collected that which he desired therefore its down to the pure business side of collecting and nothing to do with the degree of being a fan or not.

As for the argument about retainging collected items, footage, srtifacts etc, well I can understand the non collector fans taking the view that they do, but I can't agree with it. If you want it buy it, if you can't afford it then that's not the fault of someone who can afford to invest in it.

What incentive is there for a collector to part with high funds if he is to merely give the item away to other fans ? How can that possibly work ?

[Tits McGhee]

Okay, let's get this right. The 'Pied Piper' footage is the most disireable Elvis footage there is. Fans have talked about it for years. Many stories have been written on the subject. Now someone tells us that Elvis wasn't actually filmed during performance and that several copies of the existing film are "floating around". Yet nobody has seen it or checked it out and reported on it in the Elvis world?

What a total crock. Told you earlier I smelt a rat.

[Delboy]

I smelt a rat.

Yep! And I think that rat's just farted!

[ColinB]

Steve -

You wrote:

What incentive is there for a collector to part with high funds if he is to merely give the item away to other fans ?
How can that possibly work ?

I wasn't talking about giving the stuff away to other fans.

I was talking about sharing the info !

The collector guy suddenly pops up & says that an elite circle of collectors have known for years that there is no Elvis Pied Piper footage.

And they kept quiet because "they don't care about the opinion of fans not in the circle".

Now tell me, do you think that's the right attitude ?

[Steve_M]

I know you didn't say that Colin, I was merely summising my own post and trying to give a balanced conclusion.

I have to fess that that's not the first time I've seen that said about no Elvis performing in it, but that I ignored that before as I thought it was someone not knowing what they were talking about.

I wonder how many of us may have dismissed or ignored out of hand that kind of remark because we didn't believe it to be true - or maybe we didn't want it to be true.

I'll see if i can find that again, it wasn't on an MB but the content of a standard website.

[Steve_M]

This so called circle, I guess it is like the masons to a degree. I know that's not going to go down well with fans but never-the-less it does exist in a similar principle and that principle is one of trust.

Collectors swap with each other material that they know has to be kept between those collectors only as it is each of their respective investments the other is swapping.

I'm sure I have spelled that out a little too much and that no one would dispute the reasons for why they do that.

But information about such investments is also another area that is shared between collectors and not always divulged.

The original movie short was supposed to be about 15 minutes in length in its finished version.
The copy of what some of these collectors have is a series of rough cuts - Pied Piper out takes if you wish - that total about 43 minutes in length.

Now putting Elvis aside, even Pat Boone fans, Bill Haley fans etc would still give a lot of money to own this, therefore that value has to be protected by staying out of circulation.

As far as I know the info about Elvis not performing on stage in any of the 43 minutes of footage is accurate. No, I wouldn't state my life on it, I'm not asking anyone to believe me - the info really could be wrong and it really could exist on footage no one has even touched since 1955 - but the collectors who have seen it and those who have a copy say Elvis doesn't perform on any of those 43 minutes.

I do not have a copy, that's not what I'm saying either. The info is as I've given it with no guarantee or claim other than literally what I've said. It is not a "NO FOOTAGE OF ELVIS PERFORMING EXISTS" claim, just that the 43 minutes of rough cuts say no Elvis on those cuts.

Having said all that, I'd still give anything almost to see the footage of him signing autographs

[ColinB]

Steve -

Thanks for the investigation, and for sharing the results !

However 'elite' this group is, they aren't the owners of the rights to this footage any more than I am.

And they aren't bigger fans than the rest of us 'ordinary' guys either, just in a position to get hold of stuff we can't.

Doesn't make them any better than the rest of us in my eyes.

Someone who pays $10,000 for something Elvis-related, is probably doing so with a view to selling it down the line for a lot more than that.

Not so much a fan, more a wily entrepenuer !

Anyway, if no footage was shot of Elvis at the Pied Piper show, what a wasted opportunity !!

[ROCKABILLY MAN]

The owner of the amature footage is asking 10K. When she is approached about the purchase, she becomes very shifty, tells you she will think about it, then never calls you back. She does have to footage, I have seen it, so have higher powers in the area, so to speak. The footage is clear, but like I said earlier far from the stage. There is no sound, since it was 8mm. The shots from 56 were not from "filmed" by Universals cameramen. Could the photos have been from someone else, 8mm film, sure, there were lots of students who had 8mm cameras at the show. Just like the above woman, they were also told to stop filming. Judgin by how clsoe the shots are to the stage, I would doubt, any student was able to film for a long period of time without being caught. The school aditorium is very small, and there are no hiding places. Last night there were 3 students at the show, who attended the orignial perfomance, and confirmed from first hand account, that Elvis was basicly left alone by students, while the other performers were mobbed. Elvis was NO ONE then, hence the desicion not to film him.

EPCOLLECTOR

My dad read his love letters to some actress his was nailing in Germany - nobody believes this. Along with seeing pictures of him and this chick.
I know what you are saying. So I never bother telling nobody this stuff - they look at you like you are crazy or full of sh*t or both.
Big E nailed alot of chicks - lots of pictures and love letters in safty boxes the world over.

[traxfax]

I am always taken back by members on this board. When ever a FACT is presented, they tear the info apart, and try their hardest to prove what they feel is just. Could there be footage.......sure, but that would mean the following:

1. The camera men interviewed by The Brooklyn Historical Society lied
2. Universal Pictures is lying
3. Bill Randals daughter is lying
4. Former principle of the school is lying
5. Owners of the footage are lying

Let me assist by presenting the real facts:

3. Bill Randals daughter never made / sold copies to 'friends' in the area.
4. The S.O.B lied all his life and sold the audio master for lots of $$.
5. She (*) does not live in your area; copies of edited footage are not 16 minutes (as claimed) - in fact only copies of raw footage are known to be in the hands of some Elvis collectors. This includes footage of Elvis shaking hands backstage.

The full raw footage was shown at the Euclid Shore Junior High (Nov' 55). Part of the raw footage was screened on WEWS-TV (Jan 56).

(*) Now residing in Austria.

[Steve_M]

I agree with the above Colin, i wouldn't have used those words, but yes in essence you have an Elvis fan and you have an Elvis collector plaus you have people that can be both, but both sides are really independant of each other as far as comparing goes.

Yes, a wasted opportunity it was.
I would suggest that there may have been a request but that the Colonel would have vetoed any such notion. Parker was and had been for a few weeks, trying to get Elvis a TV deal at that point in time. To have a film competeing where Elvis was merely one of many other stars would not have been good business in the Colonels eyes.

Going back to Randles words on the first TV show, "We saw him whilst making a movie short...." yes, but he never says performing does he ? Just that he was seen in the footage.

But like I said, we'd settle for that anyway wouldn't we ?

[Graceland Gardener]

In Last Taxi From Memphis, it says Randle first met Elvis in early '55, months before a "movie short" was done.
So Randle, on TV debut in '56, could've said I met this young man in Cleveland in Feb. '55. But he mentioned the movie short, because Elvis was involved in it.

Is Guralnick a liar/dupe too?

[Steve_M]

Traxfax, umm... maybe someone has a copy of this rough cut footage and they might not be too far away.

Then again maybe not, eh ?

I couldn't possibly say.

but thanks for the info. i thnk there is a picture emerging the more info we have. what people say and what they meant to say doesn't always match, but I'm sure if there's any genuine errors folks will soon say so.

[Renan]

Having said all that, I'd still give anything almost to see the footage of him signing autographs

Only one autograph I would be happy!

[Gregory Nolan Jr.]

Steve -

Thanks for the investigation, and for sharing the results !

However 'elite' this group is, they aren't the owners of the rights to this footage any more than I am.

And they aren't bigger fans than the rest of us 'ordinary' guys either, just in a position to get hold of stuff we can't.

Doesn't make them any better than the rest of us in my eyes.

Someone who pays $10,000 for something Elvis-related, is probably doing so with a view to selling it down the line for a lot more than that.

Not so much a fan, more a wily entrepenuer !

Anyway, if no footage was shot of Elvis at the Pied Piper show, what a wasted opportunity !!

This is an interesting thread, and with all due respect to
EPCOLLECTOR but I tend to side with Colin on this!

Either way, let's empty the vaults already. First generation fans are
in their 70s at least. Let's not just be about the dollar...

[Tallhair AKA Ger Rijff]

... Sorry, EP Collector, but dont you take yourself a wee- bit too serious? An inner circle of collectors sharing the goods only with each other and not with the outside Elvis fan world? I mean, whats the point had I not shared my hundreds of rare photos, and other goodies with the other fans thru the years, but just kept them for myself? Whats the fun in sitting on it, and not sharing? We [ the circle???] can only exist because of having more money to spend than the less fortunate. And that is nothing to brag about... But if having a closet filled with rarities that only you, and a chosen few, can enjoy,makes you happy, be my guest. But dont make it sound if its all so important. Its not.

[iamhekev]

100% with you on that GER.

People have spent small fortunes on film clips etc,and have gone on to share it with the world...like the guy in England who give some (at the time)rare clips of our man,to the team who were putting together THIS IS ELVIS.