Hound Dog - Who wrote the revised lyrics ?

[Steve Morse]

The lyrics on Elvis's Hound Dog are almost entirely different from Big Mama Thornton's - so who wrote them ?

I know that Elvis was 'inspired' by Freddie Bell & The Bellboys, but did they revise the lyrics ? - and, if so, did Leiber & Stoller simply adopt those lyrics for royalty reasons ?

Does anyone know the facts ?

While writing, I have long since believed that it ought to be, "That was just a line" (rhymes with "Ain't no friend of mine", and is more subtle), rather than "That was just a lie".

[Dan_T]

The lyrics on Elvis's Hound Dog are almost entirely different from Big Mama Thornton's - so who wrote them ?

I know that Elvis was 'inspired' by Freddie Bell & The Bellboys, but did they revise the lyrics ? - and, if so, did Leiber & Stoller simply adopt those lyrics for royalty reasons ?

Does anyone know the facts ?

While writing, I have long since believed that it ought to be, "That was just a line" (rhymes with "Ain't no friend of mine", and is more subtle), rather than "That was just a lie".

I always thought he sang "line" ?

[colonel snow]

The original version was recorded by Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton on 13-08-52 for the Peacock label.

Johnny Otis was present as drummer and producer and he was credited besides Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller
(see wrong name on the label) for the song; by law suit his name was errased.

Elvis' version was inspired by Freddy Bell & the Bellboys (a 1955 recording)

colonel snow

[Steve Morse]

The lyrics on Elvis's Hound Dog are almost entirely different from Big Mama Thornton's - so who wrote them ?

I know that Elvis was 'inspired' by Freddie Bell & The Bellboys, but did they revise the lyrics ? - and, if so, did Leiber & Stoller simply adopt those lyrics for royalty reasons ?

Does anyone know the facts ?

While writing, I have long since believed that it ought to be, "That was just a line" (rhymes with "Ain't no friend of mine", and is more subtle), rather than "That was just a lie".

I always thought he sang "line" ?

I think that if you look at any published version, they print 'lie'.

[drjohncarpenter]

The lyrics on Elvis's Hound Dog are almost entirely different from Big Mama Thornton's - so who wrote them ?

I know that Elvis was 'inspired' by Freddie Bell & The Bellboys, but did they revise the lyrics ? - and, if so, did Leiber & Stoller simply adopt those lyrics for royalty reasons ?

Does anyone know the facts ?

While writing, I have long since believed that it ought to be, "That was just a line" (rhymes with "Ain't no friend of mine", and is more subtle), rather than "That was just a lie".

"Hound Dog" was "updated" for comic effect by Freddie Bell and the Bell Boys, and they used it in their show. They also issued a single on the indie label Teen, but it did not chart.

After Elvis caught their act while in Las Vegas in April 1956, he added it to his set. Ironically, the live Little Rock recording from May 1956 reveals Presley mixing in a bit of the original, 1952 r&b single as well.



..

Freddie Bell and the Bell Boys "Hound Dog" (Teen 101, March 1955)



The original lyrics, specifically written by Leiber and Stoller for "Big Mama" Thornton, would not work too well sung by a man.

1952 r&b version

You ain't nothing but a hound dog
Been snoopin' 'round the door
You ain't nothing but a hound dog
Been snoopin' 'round my door
You can wag your tail
But I ain't gonna feed you no more

You told me you was high class
But I could see through that
Yes, you told me you was high class
But I could see through that
And daddy I know
You ain't no real cool cat

You ain't nothing but a hound dog
Been snoopin' 'round the door
You're just an old hound dog
Been snoopin' 'round my door
You can wag your tail
But I ain't gonna feed you no more

You made me feel so blue
You made me weep and moan
You made me feel so blue
Well you made me weep and moan
'Cause I'm looking for a woman
All your lookin' for is a home

You ain't nothing but a hound dog
Been snoopin' 'round the door
You ain't nothing but a hound dog
Been snoopin' 'round my door
You can wag your tail
But I ain't gonna feed you no more


1955 rock 'n' roll version

You ain't nothin' but a hound dog
Cryin' all the time.
You ain't nothin' but a hound dog
Cryin' all the time.
Well, you ain't never caught a rabbit
And you ain't no friend of mine

When they said you was high-classed,
Well, that was just a lie.
When they said you was high-classed,
Well, that was just a lie.
You ain't never caught a rabbit
And you ain't no friend of mine

[colonel snow]

Around april 1953 6 versions of Hound dog were released (including Big Mama Thornton version);

recorded by:
00-02-53 - Jack Turner & his Granger County Gang (RCA 20-5267);
16-03-53 - Tommy Duncan (Intro 6071);
18-03-53 - Eddie Hazelwood (Intro 6069);
18-03-53 - Betsy Gay (Intro 6070);
00-03-53 - Billy Starr (Imperial 8186);
00-04-53 - Cleve Jackson (Herald 6000);
00-04-53 - Little Esther (federal 12126).

for all the recordings Johnny Otis was mentioned as co-writer on the labels.


colonel snow

[Steve Morse]

The original version was recorded by Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton on 13-08-52 for the Peacock label.

Johnny Otis was present as drummer and producer and he was credited besides Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller
(see wrong name on the label) for the song; by law suit his name was errased.

Elvis' version was inspired by Freddy Bell & the Bellboys (a 1955 recording)

colonel snow

Thanks - but that doesn't really address my question : who came up with the revised lyrics that Elvis used ?

[colonel snow]

The original version was recorded by Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton on 13-08-52 for the Peacock label.

Johnny Otis was present as drummer and producer and he was credited besides Jerry Leiber & Mike Stoller
(see wrong name on the label) for the song; by law suit his name was errased.

Elvis' version was inspired by Freddy Bell & the Bellboys (a 1955 recording)

colonel snow

Thanks - but that doesn't really address my question : who came up with the revised lyrics that Elvis used ?

I've no more information about these different lyrics but Elvis "copied" the version by Freddy Bell (see previous post by DJC).
The versions I mentioned for 1953 are simular to the original version.

colonel snow

[George Smith]

Freddie Bell and his friend Pep Lattanzi seemed to claim most copyrights for the Bellboys singles so my guess would be those two guys.

[drjohncarpenter]

Thanks - but that doesn't really address my question : who came up with the revised lyrics that Elvis used ?

I've no more information about these different lyrics but Elvis "copied" the version by Freddy Bell (see previous post by DJC).
The versions I mentioned for 1953 are simular to the original version.

colonel snow

The question is addressed there!

Freddie Bell and his friend Pep Lattanzi seemed to claim most copyrights for the Bellboys singles so my guess would be those two guys.

Yup.

[colonel snow]

here a scan for Hound dog by Freddie Bell & The Bell Boys on 78 rpm (Teen 101). Leiber & Stoller are mentioned as songwriting team.


colonel snow

[George Smith]

here a scan for Hound dog by Freddie Bell & The Bell Boys on 78 rpm (Teen 101). Leiber & Stoller are mentioned as songwriting team.


colonel snow

Indeed, but as Marion Keisker discovered, you can alter a song all you like but the writers ain't gonna give you jack.

[Ricky]

Chances are Freddie Bell's group changed the words or they came up with this version during the recording session. According to Leiber & Stoller's autobiography, they were irritated at the change as well. They also mention not knowing who rewrote their song. They didn't do it, as Stoller was on vacation in Europe during the recording session (he actually came home on the ill-fated cruise ship, the Andrea Doria the night it sank). They wrote it from a woman's point of view and felt no one nailed it better than Big Mama.

[Steve Morse]

Thanks to a fellow member on here, we have an answer (of sorts) from Leiber and Stoller, themselves :

"So Elvis got his lyrics from Freddie Bell?
LEIBER & STOLLER: Yeah.
And it was Freddie Bell who rewrote the lyrics?
STOLLER: Yeah. Or somebody did."

The source for this is a long interview with L&S, transcribed on this excellent website https://bluerailroad.wordpress.com/leiber-stoller-the-bluerailroad-interview/

L&S didn't like Elvis's version; and I am now beginning to understand their feelings in this regard, because Hound Dog was their baby, and their baby was Big Mama Thornton's version. Somebody had messed with it and they didn't like that.

My reading of the lyrics question is this : Freddie Bell and 'associates' redrafted a slightly parodied version of the song, that could be sung by a man. I doubt they ever wrote it down but someone transcribed the lyrics so that these new lyrics could be an alternative version under the names of L&S. Thus, L&S could pick up the royalties on lyrics which only partly referenced what they had originally written; and which, subsequently, became the lyrics of that song because of Elvis's superb version and its huge success.

I think "That was just a line" was wrongly transcribed as "That was just a lie" because, if you listen to FB&TBB's recording, especially on the repeat of this phrase, it does sound like 'line'. However, 'lie' is easier to sing and that is what people tend to hear whenever the song is played.

[drjohncarpenter]

Thanks to a fellow member on here, we have an answer (of sorts) from Leiber and Stoller, themselves :

"So Elvis got his lyrics from Freddie Bell?
LEIBER & STOLLER: Yeah.
And it was Freddie Bell who rewrote the lyrics?
STOLLER: Yeah. Or somebody did."

The source for this is a long interview with L&S, transcribed on this excellent website https://bluerailroad.wordpress.com/leiber-stoller-the-bluerailroad-interview/

L&S didn't like Elvis's version; and I am now beginning to understand their feelings in this regard, because Hound Dog was their baby, and their baby was Big Mama Thornton's version. Somebody had messed with it and they didn't like that.

My reading of the lyrics question is this : Freddie Bell and 'associates' redrafted a slightly parodied version of the song, that could be sung by a man. I doubt they ever wrote it down but someone transcribed the lyrics so that these new lyrics could be an alternative version under the names of L&S. Thus, L&S could pick up the royalties on lyrics which only partly referenced what they had originally written; and which, subsequently, became the lyrics of that song because of Elvis's superb version and its huge success.

I think "That was just a line" was wrongly transcribed as "That was just a lie" because, if you listen to FB&TBB's recording, especially on the repeat of this phrase, it does sound like 'line'. However, 'lie' is easier to sing and that is what people tend to hear whenever the song is played.

A gracious person might think of thanking those who already delivered the correct answer, such as George Smith.

[elvis-fan]

I really like Eric Clapton's take on the original...

..

[Steve Morse]

Thanks to a fellow member on here, we have an answer (of sorts) from Leiber and Stoller, themselves :

"So Elvis got his lyrics from Freddie Bell?
LEIBER & STOLLER: Yeah.
And it was Freddie Bell who rewrote the lyrics?
STOLLER: Yeah. Or somebody did."

The source for this is a long interview with L&S, transcribed on this excellent website https://bluerailroad.wordpress.com/leiber-stoller-the-bluerailroad-interview/

L&S didn't like Elvis's version; and I am now beginning to understand their feelings in this regard, because Hound Dog was their baby, and their baby was Big Mama Thornton's version. Somebody had messed with it and they didn't like that.

My reading of the lyrics question is this : Freddie Bell and 'associates' redrafted a slightly parodied version of the song, that could be sung by a man. I doubt they ever wrote it down but someone transcribed the lyrics so that these new lyrics could be an alternative version under the names of L&S. Thus, L&S could pick up the royalties on lyrics which only partly referenced what they had originally written; and which, subsequently, became the lyrics of that song because of Elvis's superb version and its huge success.

I think "That was just a line" was wrongly transcribed as "That was just a lie" because, if you listen to FB&TBB's recording, especially on the repeat of this phrase, it does sound like 'line'. However, 'lie' is easier to sing and that is what people tend to hear whenever the song is played.

A gracious person might think of thanking those who already delivered the correct answer, such as George Smith.

Is there no limit to your ill manners ??

This is what George Smith said : "Freddie Bell and his friend Pep Lattanzi seemed to claim most copyrights for the Bellboys singles so my guess would be those two guys." My addition of bold.

I acknowledge that George has a far deeper knowledge of these things than I but at least he has never shown any sign of one-upmanship.

Does it bug you that I, thanks to another member, have published a link which gives us the best answer yet ? I don't doubt that the same link may well have been used before; so I claim nothing other than to have helped throw some light on my original query.

Get a life.

[mike edwards66]

Thanks to a fellow member on here, we have an answer (of sorts) from Leiber and Stoller, themselves :

"So Elvis got his lyrics from Freddie Bell?
LEIBER & STOLLER: Yeah.
And it was Freddie Bell who rewrote the lyrics?
STOLLER: Yeah. Or somebody did."

The source for this is a long interview with L&S, transcribed on this excellent website https://bluerailroad.wordpress.com/leiber-stoller-the-bluerailroad-interview/

L&S didn't like Elvis's version; and I am now beginning to understand their feelings in this regard, because Hound Dog was their baby, and their baby was Big Mama Thornton's version. Somebody had messed with it and they didn't like that.

My reading of the lyrics question is this : Freddie Bell and 'associates' redrafted a slightly parodied version of the song, that could be sung by a man. I doubt they ever wrote it down but someone transcribed the lyrics so that these new lyrics could be an alternative version under the names of L&S. Thus, L&S could pick up the royalties on lyrics which only partly referenced what they had originally written; and which, subsequently, became the lyrics of that song because of Elvis's superb version and its huge success.

I think "That was just a line" was wrongly transcribed as "That was just a lie" because, if you listen to FB&TBB's recording, especially on the repeat of this phrase, it does sound like 'line'. However, 'lie' is easier to sing and that is what people tend to hear whenever the song is played.

A gracious person might think of thanking those who already delivered the correct answer, such as George Smith.

George, when you have finished cringing, you can consign that comment to your bulging 'djc - WTF' file.

[George Smith]

Thanks to a fellow member on here, we have an answer (of sorts) from Leiber and Stoller, themselves :

"So Elvis got his lyrics from Freddie Bell?
LEIBER & STOLLER: Yeah.
And it was Freddie Bell who rewrote the lyrics?
STOLLER: Yeah. Or somebody did."

This is a good link, Steve, and as I read it, Stoller is saying he presumes it was Bell but he doesn't really know.

As such, I think the question still remains open?

[Steve Morse]

Thanks to a fellow member on here, we have an answer (of sorts) from Leiber and Stoller, themselves :

"So Elvis got his lyrics from Freddie Bell?
LEIBER & STOLLER: Yeah.
And it was Freddie Bell who rewrote the lyrics?
STOLLER: Yeah. Or somebody did."

This is a good link, Steve, and as I read it, Stoller is saying he presumes it was Bell but he doesn't really know.

As such, I think the question still remains open?

Agreed, George. It seems likely that 'someone' in the Bell camp wrote it but possibly it was a collaborative effort. 60+ years having elapsed, I very much doubt that we will ever know for certain - but at least there's some flesh on the bone.

I quite like it that there are still a few mysteries left !

[brian]

Freddie Bell re-wrote the lyrics. All the cover versions prior to Freddie Bell in 1955 that I have heard contain the original Leiber & Stoller lyrics that they wrote for Big Mama Thornton.They include versions by Tommy Duncan, Betsy Gay, Eddie Hazzlewood and Jack Turner. As you know Leiber and Stoller didn't re-write the lyrics. As you also know singers can re-work lyrics and change arrangements.

[egilj]

A disturbing example of cultural appropriation

[Juan Luis]

A disturbing example of cultural appropriation

Ha!

[drjohncarpenter]

A gracious person might think of thanking those who already delivered the correct answer, such as George Smith.

Is there ...

George Smith is correct, and you should graciously thank him instead of praising an anonymous person who does not even appear on your topic. Others have also kindly contributed interesting information, and it's disappointing you choose not to respond in the same manner.

[George Smith]

A couple of further thoughts.

Musically rather than lyrically, this from 1954 could be seen as a missing link between Thornton and Bell:

..

And this is the B-side of Thornton's original and, maybe I'm reaching too far, but I do hear just a little of Scotty's approach in the guitar solo of Pete Lewis (1:40).

..