"Without You" - has the full version ever circulated?

[Eggrert]

I'm currently in the process of rereading Mystery Train, and up until now, I completely forgot about the Sun demo of Without You. A few years ago I downloaded a 30-second clip that someone posted here, but I've never heard the full version. Does it circulate? Is it available anywhere online?

[drjohncarpenter]

I'm currently in the process of rereading Mystery Train, and up until now, I completely forgot about the Sun demo of Without You. A few years ago I downloaded a 30-second clip that someone posted here, but I've never heard the full version. Does it circulate? Is it available anywhere online?

That was probably my share. No, I have never found the whole version anywhere.

What I really want to hear is Elvis' version, taped on 6-26-1954 (Sat) at Sun. But that's a pipe dream.

[Davelee]

I remember a few seconds of it was on a documentary once, never heard it since! I remember liking what I heard of it very much!

[Keith]

I'm currently in the process of rereading Mystery Train, and up until now, I completely forgot about the Sun demo of Without You. A few years ago I downloaded a 30-second clip that someone posted here, but I've never heard the full version. Does it circulate? Is it available anywhere online?

That was probably my share...

Yes, it probably was, of my original upload from 2005!

Here it is again for those who haven't heard the sample of it - All 31 seconds of it:

Without You

Keith

[drjohncarpenter]

I'm currently in the process of rereading Mystery Train, and up until now, I completely forgot about the Sun demo of Without You. A few years ago I downloaded a 30-second clip that someone posted here, but I've never heard the full version. Does it circulate? Is it available anywhere online?

That was probably my share. No, I have never found the whole version anywhere.

What I really want to hear is Elvis' version, taped on 6-26-1954 (Sat) at Sun. But that's a pipe dream.

Yes, it probably was, of my original upload from 2005!

Here it is again for those who haven't heard the sample of it - All 31 seconds of it:

Without You

Keith

Any chance you can quit with the "one-upping" comments? You are so insecure.

No, the file was sent to me long ago by someone else, who works professionally as a mastering engineer.

Maybe you got your copy from him as well.

[Keith]

I'm currently in the process of rereading Mystery Train, and up until now, I completely forgot about the Sun demo of Without You. A few years ago I downloaded a 30-second clip that someone posted here, but I've never heard the full version. Does it circulate? Is it available anywhere online?

That was probably my share. No, I have never found the whole version anywhere.

What I really want to hear is Elvis' version, taped on 6-26-1954 (Sat) at Sun. But that's a pipe dream.

Yes, it probably was, of my original upload from 2005!

Here it is again for those who haven't heard the sample of it - All 31 seconds of it:

Without You

Keith

Any chance you can quit with the "one-upping" comments? You are so insecure.

No, the file was sent to me long ago by someone else, who works professionally as a mastering engineer.

Maybe you got your copy from him as well.

I'm insecure? "Glass Houses" comes to mind, but I won't go into that!

No, I got mine directly from the 1987 two-part documentary "Presley" and I sent it to Sebastian when I did the edit of it - Who is the "Mastering Engineer" you are probably referring to, who sent it to you!

There is no "one-upping" here, I'm just stating just facts, as you are are normally a stickler for facts!

Keep it real John - Don't go taking credit for something you didn't do.

Keith

[dannyboy1]

Why does it always have to a competition?

Thanks for reposting. I had also forgotten about it.
That two-part Presley documentary was exceptional.

[sweetangeline]

That two-part Presley documentary was exceptional.

yes it was and deserved a DVD official release that never came!!

[drjohncarpenter]

There is no "one-upping" here ...

Post this ten more times, maybe we'll start believing you.

[Harty]

Well, is this really Elvis ?

[G.I. Blues]

Well, is this really Elvis ?

exactly my thoughts

[drjohncarpenter]

Well, is this really Elvis ?

What you're hearing is a segment of a May 1954 demo, by a singer no one has ever been able to identify. There are two stories about how "Without You" got to Sam Phillips. He recalls picking up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got the unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when the producer cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.

Below is my look at a crucial event in Elvis' life and career, which I've shared before.

---

Memphis, TN - Saturday, June 26, 1954

Sun Records producer Sam Phillips asks assistant Marion Keisker to call Elvis Presley and see if the 19 year-old would be interested in coming down to 706 Union to try out singing a demo Phillips got from Peer Music in Nashville. The song is called "Without You."

"I was there by the time she hung up the phone," recalls Elvis.

The demo, acquired by Phillips in May 1954, was made by someone that neither Sam nor Marion could track down. Thus, the inspiration a few weeks later -- thanks Marion! -- to call young Presley. About a week after the June 26 visit, on Sunday, July 4, Elvis met up with local guitarist and musician Scotty Moore, jammed on some tunes that afternoon with Moore and his fellow musician and friend Bill Black, and the very next evening the three of them met up at the studio after work and ultimately taped what would become the A-side of Sun 209. And nothing would ever be the same after that.

Sadly, the full demo of "Without You" has never been issued, although a small segment was aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody."

[elvis-fan]

Well, is this really Elvis ?

[George Smith]

There are two stories about how "Without You" got to Sam Phillips. He recalls picking up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got the unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when the producer cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.

This is very interesting to read, John, because I too had heard it was a Peer song, but Guralnick's recent Sam Phillips book suggests the song came from small-time publisher Red Wortham who did indeed pass it on to Sam (or possibly set it aside for him) at Nashville State.

I therefore presume it's a Red Wortham published song and not a Peer?

[mrbthebarber]

I'm currently in the process of rereading Mystery Train, and up until now, I completely forgot about the Sun demo of Without You. A few years ago I downloaded a 30-second clip that someone posted here, but I've never heard the full version. Does it circulate? Is it available anywhere online?

That was probably my share...

Yes, it probably was, of my original upload from 2005!

Here it is again for those who haven't heard the sample of it - All 31 seconds of it:

Without You

Keith

Thanks for posting Keith ... sounds a little like Johnny Bragg to me.

[drjohncarpenter]

There are two stories about how "Without You" got to Sam Phillips. He recalls picking up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got the unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when the producer cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.

This is very interesting to read, John, because I too had heard it was a Peer song, but Guralnick's recent Sam Phillips book suggests the song came from small-time publisher Red Wortham who did indeed pass it on to Sam (or possibly set it aside for him) at Nashville State.

I therefore presume it's a Red Wortham published song and not a Peer?

Given Peter's book is so new, one must assume he has the latest information possible.

But ... if "Without You" is a song Red Wortham published, there should be a paper trail. But is there? And how could the song be pressed onto an acetate but Sam remained clueless about the singer on it? Recall he originally wanted to find the man, and bring him to 706 Union to re-record it. But he could not find him, thus the call to Elvis in late June. Wouldn't Phillips have first called Wortham in trying to locate the singer? And wouldn't the publisher know exactly who the guy was?

I read somewhere that Johnny Bragg worked with Wortham on publishing his songs, so that may be some kind of connection.

[hli]

Well, is this really Elvis ?

What you're hearing is a segment of a May 1954 demo, by a singer no one has ever been able to identify. There are two stories about how "Without You" got to Sam Phillips. He recalls picking up the demo in a late May 1954 from Peer-Southern Music in Nashville. But authors Colin Escott and Martin Hawkins maintain Phillips got the unpublished recording from someone at Nashville State Penitentiary, when the producer cut tracks with the Prisonaires on May 8, 1954.

Altough no one has ever identify the singer, we can be pretty sure it's not Elvis, right?
Not to offend anyone but it's actually a fine example of how rumors can arise about unreleased audio in the
hands of private collectors who actually think that this is Elvis.

Apart from above how we know for sure that this sample we hearing is actually dating back to 1954?
Listening to the audio quality i get the strong feeling that this sample we hearing isn't likely from 1954 either,
or am i getting far too suspicious now ?
What is the exact story of the mastering engineer who send this sample..?

[TJ]

Altough no one has ever identify the singer, we can be pretty sure it's not Elvis, right?
Not to offend anyone but it's actually a fine example of how rumors can arise about unreleased audio in the
hands of private collectors who actually think that this is Elvis.

No one is suggesting that it is Elvis. If authentic, this is the demo that Sam played to Elvis in order to see whether Elvis might be suited to the song.

[hli]

Altough no one has ever identify the singer, we can be pretty sure it's not Elvis, right?
Not to offend anyone but it's actually a fine example of how rumors can arise about unreleased audio in the
hands of private collectors who actually think that this is Elvis.

No one is suggesting that it is Elvis. If authentic, this is the demo that Sam played to Elvis in order to see whether Elvis might be suited to the song.

Well, the following question was asked "is this really Elvis ?"
The answer given ".........by a singer no one has ever been able to identify".
Thats neiher a confirm nor denial response. A simple answer would be no.
It certainly would clear up misunderstandings for those actually thinking that this could be Elvis.

If authentic...that's the real question. I find this a very interesting story and
a nice read, but how can we verify if the posted sample is authentic.
That's why i would like to hear the story of the mastering engineer who send this sample.

[TJ]

The Doc wasn't trying to be cagey about it. He was explaining that this is a demo from an unknown singer that was presented to Elvis. Someone misunderstood the context and thought it might be Elvis' version of it. It isn't.

No need to know about the story of the mastering engineer either. This snippet has been around for 30 years and first appeared on that BBC doc.

[TCBell]

I'm sure we all know the story surrounding the demo.

So, to clarify... the thirty second clip above is NOT Elvis - no one is claiming that. However, what had been asked is, can we be sure that the clip is from the original 1954 demo?

[drjohncarpenter]

I'm sure we all know the story surrounding the demo.

So, to clarify... the thirty second clip above is NOT Elvis - no one is claiming that. However, what had been asked is, can we be sure that the clip is from the original 1954 demo?

Celebrated rock 'n' roll critic and historian Greil Marcus confirms the May 1954 demo as authentic ... and "ghostly":

The original Nashville demo has never been released or bootlegged: (Marion) Keisker kept the only copy, which a few years before her death in 1989, at seventy-two, she gave to John Bakke, who has written extensively on Keisker, Phillips and the recording, "It's A Mystery! The Story of Elvis Presley and 'Without You'" (2012). A bit can be heard in the 1987 BBC radio documentary Presley: "I Don't Sing Like Nobody"; heard entire, the performance is ghostly, demanding to be played again and again, as if by so doing one could get to the bottom of it. To listen, now, is to be transported back to the very instant before the beginning of the present age. The unnamed singer's voice is full of pain and full of acceptance, gliding along the stately lines of the song, reaching for solace, falling short, reaching again. It's pure Sisyphus -- and as Camus said of Sisyphus, one must imagine the singer happy.

Though Guralnick hears a white singer, I hear Sonny Til of the Orioles, Bill Kenny of the Ink Spots, and the gospel tones of Johnny Bragg and the Prisonaires (Marion Keisker told Jerry Hopkins, Elvis' first serious biographer, that "Sam couldn't find out who the singer was"; much later Sam asserted that it was in fact Johnny Bragg).

Greil Marcus, Mystery Train: Images of America in Rock 'n' Roll Music (New York: Penguin Publishing Group, 6th revised edition, April 28, 2015)
https://books.google.com/books?id=trEBDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA326

And for those who don't know the story surrounding the demo:

He also left the prison with an acetate that had been set aside for him by Red Wortham, the song publisher who had steered the Prisonaires to Sun. He listened to it when he got back to Memphis. It was a plaintive ballad called "Without You," sung in a quavering voice that sounded like a cross between the Ink Spots and a sentimental Irish tenor -- he could never remember, he may never have known, whether it came from a prisoner, and it was not really an accomplished performance, but the song stayed with him.

Peter Guralnick, Sam Phillips: The Man Who Invented Rock 'n' Roll (Boston: Little, Brown, November 10, 2015)
https://books.google.com/books?id=AmTkBgAAQBAJ&pg=PT234

BONUS PHOTO: THE BIG THREE

560923_w Sam Phillips_Marion Keisker_Memphis.jpg

With Sam Phillips and Marion Keisker, 706 Union in Memphis - Sunday, September 23, 1956
Elvis came by to say hello. It was Marion's 39th birthday, too! Maybe he knew that.

[Domino]

..

..

..

[TCBell]

I'm sure we all know the story surrounding the demo.

So, to clarify... the thirty second clip above is NOT Elvis - no one is claiming that. However, what had been asked is, can we be sure that the clip is from the original 1954 demo?

Celebrated rock 'n' roll critic and historian Greil Marcus confirms the May 1954 demo as authentic ... .

Thanks!

[Davelee]

To my knowledge, the whole song has never been heard except for the snippet that we have. Why is that? You would've thought someone would've had it out by now!

So the question is, who actually owns it?