Juan Luis wrote:Like all threads of ditties that the thought police dislikes. It gets derailed from the start on page one or two. In this case on page one with a hypocritical and dramatic "Oh, the pain", followed by an insulting only a "fanboy"... The "pain" indeed of posting anything that doesn't meet the "approval" of the few and their yes-men. Nevertheless, this will not stop anyone from posting what they desire and like. They will be able to count on me and others that respect and find joy in all aspects of Elvis' vast catalog of music.
A number one in Japan (a HUGE record market), Malaysia, and Singapore... Plus a top ten hit in other territories. "Clam" was clearly, obviously, evidently and definitely a global smash. More importantly, The King was far from the mid-60's washed-up has-been that he is regularly been portrayed as on this site on an almost daily basis as he continued to Rock the charts right throughout the planet. He remained a huge international star continuously throughout the decade. You know it, I know, and they know it. They just can't bring themselves to admit it. You can lead a horse...
You are correct. I checked combined population in 1965 of those countries was over 100 million! Elvis was, and will always be, The King, no matter what. They kept buying them records!
Hard Rocker wrote:Yes! Yes I can! And I'll do so just as soon as you substantiate your unworthy claim that that The Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show in 1964 is "generally accepted" as "Rock's big bang" ...
As I suspected, you were parroting something you read that cannot be substantiated by a credible source.
It should be noted yet again that your unceasing anger and rudeness make your presence unwelcome. You didn't even acknowledge my beautiful scan of the single I asked you about, or the fact that my interaction was civil. Why you are so filled with anger is a question none of us can answer, but one imagines you are insecure and lonely.
jetblack wrote:Here are the FACTS:-
From this 29 May 1965 UK issue of New Musical Express (NME).
Billboards 'Hits Of The World' on page 24 states that 'Do The Clam' is Number 1 in Malaysia and was Number 1 the week before.
Thus proving that 'Do The Clam' was indeed a number 1 single.
The question I asked was much more specific, and had nothing to do with Malaysia:
"I've never been able to find a credible source which states if the single made #1 in the Land of the Rising Sun ... Can you share how you know this?"
We can see that this question remains unanswered, and that's a FACT. I suspect this is because the statement made by "hard rocker" is false, and we must conclude that the terrible single "Do The Clam" was not "a number one smash ... in Japan back in '65."
Also, your link does not send us to a page from the "29 May 1965 UK issue of New Musical Express (NME)." It's from Billboard, and that's a FACT, too.
Billboard May 25 1965 p24.JPG
Billboard - May 25, 1965
Again, it's a sad state of affairs to tout a hit foreign single as an "accomplishment" for a major American artist. These are secondary markets. Taking such a view is just grasping at straws. It's been fifty years, let it go.
Totally agree. Threads seem to take real nosedive when said person gets involved and often end up in some kind of slanging match until the thread is pulled.
Thanks. I don't know what's his deal, but the angry postings, again and again, are really unpleasant.
Yes, they are very unpleasant. But what makes me laugh, people like Juan Luis are always pressing the "like button" on Hard Rockers rude and angry unpleasant posts, even though he's plainly wrong So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
Juan Luis wrote:Like all threads of ditties that the thought police dislikes. It gets derailed from the start on page one or two. In this case on page one with a hypocritical and dramatic "Oh, the pain", followed by an insulting only a "fanboy"... The "pain" indeed of posting anything that doesn't meet the "approval" of the few and their yes-men. Nevertheless, this will not stop anyone from posting what they desire and like. They will be able to count on me and others that respect and find joy in all aspects of Elvis' vast catalog of music.
A number one in Japan (a HUGE record market), Malaysia, and Singapore... Plus a top ten hit in other territories. "Clam" was clearly, obviously, evidently and definitely a global smash. More importantly, The King was far from the mid-60's washed-up has-been that he is regularly been portrayed as on this site on an almost daily basis as he continued to Rock the charts right throughout the planet. He remained a huge international star continuously throughout the decade. You know it, I know, and they know it. They just can't bring themselves to admit it. You can lead a horse...
If you say anything to yourself enough times, you will truly believe you are right. However sensible fans know that this track was not a global smash hit.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
Juan Luis wrote:Like all threads of ditties that the thought police dislikes. It gets derailed from the start on page one or two. In this case on page one with a hypocritical and dramatic "Oh, the pain", followed by an insulting only a "fanboy"... The "pain" indeed of posting anything that doesn't meet the "approval" of the few and their yes-men. Nevertheless, this will not stop anyone from posting what they desire and like. They will be able to count on me and others that respect and find joy in all aspects of Elvis' vast catalog of music.
A number one in Japan (a HUGE record market), Malaysia, and Singapore... Plus a top ten hit in other territories. "Clam" was clearly, obviously, evidently and definitely a global smash. More importantly, The King was far from the mid-60's washed-up has-been that he is regularly been portrayed as on this site on an almost daily basis as he continued to Rock the charts right throughout the planet. He remained a huge international star continuously throughout the decade. You know it, I know, and they know it. They just can't bring themselves to admit it. You can lead a horse...
You are correct. I checked combined population in 1965 of those countries was over 100 million! Elvis was, and will always be, The King, no matter what. They kept buying them records!
Relevance
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
Davelee wrote:
Yes, they are very unpleasant. But what makes me laugh, people like Juan Luis are always pressing the "like button" on Hard Rockers rude and angry unpleasant posts So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
What really makes me laugh is stepping away from this board for a couple days and remembering that there are literally billions of people in the world right now, who do not know or care about anything being said by the people on this board, nor Do the Clam, or frankly, at any given moment, Elvis himself. Be these comments rude or angry or narcissistic or egotistical or well informed or idiotic, mean or nice... Get some f**king perspective guys. Go outside. Do you even KNOW how many Facebook pages, forum posts, Tweets, Instagram posts, etc get "liked" every day by people all around the world, with many different opinions? This forum is small potatoes in the big scheme day to day, even less so in the scheme of history. Certainly nobody cares to remember the specific details of arguments had by peasants a couple hundred years ago, so I think it's probably safe to say what we say here will equally be forgotten.
We all have blood coursing through our veins, we all face mortality one day, and rich or poor, smart or stupid, nice or mean, we're all gonna bite the big one one day so maybe we should ALL try not being total d**ks to one another.
Davelee wrote:
Yes, they are very unpleasant. But what makes me laugh, people like Juan Luis are always pressing the "like button" on Hard Rockers rude and angry unpleasant posts So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
What really makes me laugh is stepping away from this board for a couple days and remembering that there are literally billions of people in the world right now, who do not know or care about anything being said by the people on this board, nor Do the Clam, or frankly, at any given moment, Elvis himself. Be these comments rude or angry or narcissistic or egotistical or well informed or idiotic, mean or nice... Get some f**king perspective guys. Go outside. Do you even KNOW how many Facebook pages, forum posts, Tweets, Instagram posts, etc get "liked" every day by people all around the world, with many different opinions? This forum is small potatoes in the big scheme day to day, even less so in the scheme of history. Certainly nobody cares to remember the specific details of arguments had by peasants a couple hundred years ago, so I think it's probably safe to say what we say here will equally be forgotten.
We all have blood coursing through our veins, we all face mortality one day, and rich or poor, smart or stupid, nice or mean, we're all gonna bite the big one one day so maybe we should ALL try not being total d**ks to one another.
This post is totally irrelevant to the behavior of some of the members of this board - what goes on on the outside of this forum by people who have never heard of this board or are not Elvis fans is, some what, besides the point.
The point is, it's undeniable that Hard Rocker does post rude and angry comments, surely anyone can see this, especially on this topic, and yet, there are people liking his posts, which tells me they are just as bad as he is - it's clearly the wrong attitude. If someone posts a comment just to be mean and is wrong, why press the "like button"? It doesn't make sense... it's just to be mean and childish, and it's also a chance to gang up on one person. We can all have "opinions" and "disagreements" but there's no need for such childish behaviour.
I think 'Do the Clam' is a clunker be it mono, stereo or 7.2 channels of discrete audio. I don't generally like songs that tell me to 'do' things anyway, like 'Do the Clam' or 'Do the Vega'; No, I don't want to do the clam or the vega thanks, I'm washing the pots, etc.
I would consider doing the hucklebuck though. I like that song. However, I don't know how to do it, so I guess I'm out of luck...
Well, Good evenin', don't that sun look good goin' down...
Davelee wrote:
Yes, they are very unpleasant. But what makes me laugh, people like Juan Luis are always pressing the "like button" on Hard Rockers rude and angry unpleasant posts So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
.....it's undeniable that Hard Rocker does post rude and angry comments, surely anyone can see this, especially on this topic, and yet, there are people liking his posts, which tells me they are just as bad as he is - it's clearly the wrong attitude. If someone posts a comment just to be mean and is wrong, why press the "like button"? It doesn't make sense... it's just to be mean and childish, and it's also a chance to gang up on one person. We can all have "opinions" and "disagreements" but there's no need for such childish behaviour.
Fully agree. He simply cannot accept that Elvis had faults, recorded poor songs at times, made some poor films, and had lulls in his career etc. And heaven help you if you try to compare what Elvis was doing or wasn't doing with other great artists of the time. He just winds people up so much that in the end, the thread gets deleted.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
Elvis never had much artistic success with songs about shellfish. I think he may have been thinking of these types of songs when he told Binder, I'll never sing another song I dont believe in.
It seems that some are mistaking a credible rebuttal with regard to Elvis career position in 1965 to 1967 and highlighting the irony that sometimes answers and corrections are demanded by those who have shown an unwillingness in the past to offer answers and corrections themselves, as rudeness and anger.
In short, despite many lesser soundtrack recordings, Elvis was still having a pretty successful career during the 65-67 period, and the comeback was just around the corner.
Davelee wrote:
Yes, they are very unpleasant. But what makes me laugh, people like Juan Luis are always pressing the "like button" on Hard Rockers rude and angry unpleasant posts So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
What really makes me laugh is stepping away from this board for a couple days and remembering that there are literally billions of people in the world right now, who do not know or care about anything being said by the people on this board, nor Do the Clam, or frankly, at any given moment, Elvis himself. Be these comments rude or angry or narcissistic or egotistical or well informed or idiotic, mean or nice... Get some f**king perspective guys. Go outside. Do you even KNOW how many Facebook pages, forum posts, Tweets, Instagram posts, etc get "liked" every day by people all around the world, with many different opinions? This forum is small potatoes in the big scheme day to day, even less so in the scheme of history. Certainly nobody cares to remember the specific details of arguments had by peasants a couple hundred years ago, so I think it's probably safe to say what we say here will equally be forgotten.
We all have blood coursing through our veins, we all face mortality one day, and rich or poor, smart or stupid, nice or mean, we're all gonna bite the big one one day so maybe we should ALL try not being total d**ks to one another.
This post is totally irrelevant to the behavior of some of the members of this board - what goes on on the outside of this forum by people who have never heard of this board or are not Elvis fans is, some what, besides the point.
The point is, it's undeniable that Hard Rocker does post rude and angry comments, surely anyone can see this, especially on this topic, and yet, there are people liking his posts, which tells me they are just as bad as he is - it's clearly the wrong attitude. If someone posts a comment just to be mean and is wrong, why press the "like button"? It doesn't make sense... it's just to be mean and childish, and it's also a chance to gang up on one person. We can all have "opinions" and "disagreements" but there's no need for such childish behaviour.
Drjohncarpenter just called HardRocker "insecure and lonely." That is an insult no matter which way you cut it, and my request that EVERYONE should try to treat each other well because what we say here means very little in the big picture is literally the most relevant thing regarding behavior here.
Does it really matter to you so much that a handful of people like a s***ty song? Because again, there are billions of people who do not care. They do not care about their behavior, they do not care what music they like, they do not care whether they are even alive. Again, step back, take a breather and realize that the things that you are taking so seriously are very small, unimportant things. You are getting so worked up over a "like" and "likes" mean very little. At best they're a thank you or an agreement, at worst they're "internet points" which do not matter.
Since you think this behavior is childish, I will tell you what my teachers in elementary (primary) school told me: if someone is being mean to you, ignore them. Do NOT be mean back. Be the bigger person and walk away.
I will not argue with you anymore in this thread, Davelee. I am trying to act like an adult with some level of perspective here.
Most threads here work fine until said person decides to railroad the thread with his somewhat obnoxious comments. Likes and dislikes are all subjective, but when members try to substantiate things with certain facts such as poor chart placings/poor sales to Elvis' earlier standards, his responses that you are effectively talking out of your backside can be quite infuriating for some people. We are all members of this forum because we are Elvis fans. Just because many members recognise that Elvis was only human, made mistakes, recorded some poor songs, allowed RCA to release poor material and that in the mid 60s, he was not as good as he was 5 or 10 years earlier, does not mean we have to be subjected to his 'rose tinted thoughts'. To state that Do The Clam was a worldwide smash hit is unbelievable. Thankfully, most fans will realise it was not and that during said years of 64-68, Elvis was not considered by the general public as the force he once was, hence the lower chart placings etc.during this period.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
goldbelt wrote:It seems that some are mistaking a credible rebuttal with regard to Elvis career position in 1965 to 1967 and highlighting the irony that sometimes answers and corrections are demanded by those who have shown an unwillingness in the past to offer answers and corrections themselves, as rudeness and anger.
In short, despite many lesser soundtrack recordings, Elvis was still having a pretty successful career during the 65-67 period, and the comeback was just around the corner.
As I have said before, his success during this time was down to a strong fan base - NOT via the general public. He was not considered a major recording artist anymore during this period by the record buying public. Of course lesser artists would have been happy to get a single into the top 40 or bottom of the top 20, but as fans, we knew that Elvis could do so much better than those placings by recording the right/better material. That is what we wanted, but it did not really happen until the end of '68.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
emjel wrote:Most threads here work fine until said person decides to railroad the thread with his somewhat obnoxious comments. Likes and dislikes are all subjective, but when members try to substantiate things with certain facts such as poor chart placings/poor sales to Elvis' earlier standards, his responses that you are effectively talking out of your backside can be quite infuriating for some people. We are all members of this forum because we are Elvis fans. Just because many members recognise that Elvis was only human, made mistakes, recorded some poor songs, allowed RCA to release poor material and that in the mid 60s, he was not as good as he was 5 or 10 years earlier, does not mean we have to be subjected to his 'rose tinted thoughts'. To state that Do The Clam was a worldwide smash hit is unbelievable. Thankfully, most fans will realise it was not and that during said years of 64-68, Elvis was not considered by the general public as the force he once was, hence the lower chart placings etc.during this period.
I don't even fall down on the side of defending 65-68 - even the much touted studio work of that period was unsuccessful in the charts and is barely remembered by the general public today. I very much doubt that even a cohesive packaging like the Tomorrow Is A Long Time CD would have changed the public's opinion of Elvis because what was being marketed were the movies. Elvis wasn't performing live, wasn't giving interviews, wasn't on TV - the only means of seeing him was at the movies, and as formulaic as they had become by 1966, I don't blame audiences for not going.
That being said, I see "obnoxious" comments from both sides. Goldbelt's "credible rebuttal" may not take into account the bigger picture, the fact that the movies were the driving force and they indisputably failed, but it certainly does offer at least a different perspective - the international one, which shouldn't be entirely discounted - and it's hard to argue that Elvis didn't have some successes in that period, e.g. How Great Thou Art/Crying in the Chapel. We as fans and Elvis himself were (and are) frustrated because of the shoulda/coulda/woulda. We know he should have been doing better, we know the quality should have been there. But any other artist would have been thrilled to be in the Top 20 albums and Top 10 singles for any release.
This spell of 3-4 years is a difficult topic and will always be a point of contention among fans, but I think with a level head, it's easy to see that both sides have points and there are nuances that one side or the other are not considering. Rose colored glasses are not the most helpful or insightful, but be honest with yourself, neither is pessimism or cynicism.
Every single artist with longevity has up's and downs carrer-wise.
To write off Elvis chart achievements between 1965 - 1968 with inaccuracies just won't do.
13 hits to reach the UK charts within that time period is what some artists never get.
The FACT is he was still having hit singles throughout parts of the world other than the USA.
Let's get back to the facts instead of derailing by personal attacks and double-talk.
Davelee wrote:
Yes, they are very unpleasant. But what makes me laugh, people like Juan Luis are always pressing the "like button" on Hard Rockers rude and angry unpleasant posts So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
What really makes me laugh is stepping away from this board for a couple days and remembering that there are literally billions of people in the world right now, who do not know or care about anything being said by the people on this board, nor Do the Clam, or frankly, at any given moment, Elvis himself. Be these comments rude or angry or narcissistic or egotistical or well informed or idiotic, mean or nice... Get some f**king perspective guys. Go outside. Do you even KNOW how many Facebook pages, forum posts, Tweets, Instagram posts, etc get "liked" every day by people all around the world, with many different opinions? This forum is small potatoes in the big scheme day to day, even less so in the scheme of history. Certainly nobody cares to remember the specific details of arguments had by peasants a couple hundred years ago, so I think it's probably safe to say what we say here will equally be forgotten.
We all have blood coursing through our veins, we all face mortality one day, and rich or poor, smart or stupid, nice or mean, we're all gonna bite the big one one day so maybe we should ALL try not being total d**ks to one another.
This post is totally irrelevant to the behavior of some of the members of this board - what goes on on the outside of this forum by people who have never heard of this board or are not Elvis fans is, some what, besides the point.
The point is, it's undeniable that Hard Rocker does post rude and angry comments, surely anyone can see this, especially on this topic, and yet, there are people liking his posts, which tells me they are just as bad as he is - it's clearly the wrong attitude. If someone posts a comment just to be mean and is wrong, why press the "like button"? It doesn't make sense... it's just to be mean and childish, and it's also a chance to gang up on one person. We can all have "opinions" and "disagreements" but there's no need for such childish behaviour.
Drjohncarpenter just called HardRocker "insecure and lonely." That is an insult no matter which way you cut it, and my request that EVERYONE should try to treat each other well because what we say here means very little in the big picture is literally the most relevant thing regarding behavior here.
Does it really matter to you so much that a handful of people like a s***ty song? Because again, there are billions of people who do not care. They do not care about their behavior, they do not care what music they like, they do not care whether they are even alive. Again, step back, take a breather and realize that the things that you are taking so seriously are very small, unimportant things. You are getting so worked up over a "like" and "likes" mean very little. At best they're a thank you or an agreement, at worst they're "internet points" which do not matter.
Since you think this behavior is childish, I will tell you what my teachers in elementary (primary) school told me: if someone is being mean to you, ignore them. Do NOT be mean back. Be the bigger person and walk away.
I will not argue with you anymore in this thread, Davelee. I am trying to act like an adult with some level of perspective here.
The thing is your not seeing properly where these arguments are stemming from, Hard Rocker as been attacking the Doc long before this thread even started, if someone was doing this to me i'd react in the same fashion, and he's not the only one following him around, it's like these people are some kind of mission. Naturally, yes, it would bother me, because i'm not the sort of person who takes this kind of sh*t from anyone. As you say, yes, we are all human beings, and every human reacts differently to different things - some people will see it as just being silly and others will react, it's human nature. That's one of the reasons they're are guidelines to this forum because bad behaviour is not exceptable - and that goes for all walks of life.
Last edited by Davelee on Sun May 29, 2016 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
emjel wrote:Most threads here work fine until said person decides to railroad the thread with his somewhat obnoxious comments. Likes and dislikes are all subjective, but when members try to substantiate things with certain facts such as poor chart placings/poor sales to Elvis' earlier standards, his responses that you are effectively talking out of your backside can be quite infuriating for some people. We are all members of this forum because we are Elvis fans. Just because many members recognise that Elvis was only human, made mistakes, recorded some poor songs, allowed RCA to release poor material and that in the mid 60s, he was not as good as he was 5 or 10 years earlier, does not mean we have to be subjected to his 'rose tinted thoughts'. To state that Do The Clam was a worldwide smash hit is unbelievable. Thankfully, most fans will realise it was not and that during said years of 64-68, Elvis was not considered by the general public as the force he once was, hence the lower chart placings etc.during this period.
I don't even fall down on the side of defending 65-68 - even the much touted studio work of that period was unsuccessful in the charts and is barely remembered by the general public today. I very much doubt that even a cohesive packaging like the Tomorrow Is A Long Time CD would have changed the public's opinion of Elvis because what was being marketed were the movies. Elvis wasn't performing live, wasn't giving interviews, wasn't on TV - the only means of seeing him was at the movies, and as formulaic as they had become by 1966, I don't blame audiences for not going.
That being said, I see "obnoxious" comments from both sides. Goldbelt's "credible rebuttal" may not take into account the bigger picture, the fact that the movies were the driving force and they indisputably failed, but it certainly does offer at least a different perspective - the international one, which shouldn't be entirely discounted - and it's hard to argue that Elvis didn't have some successes in that period, e.g. How Great Thou Art/Crying in the Chapel. We as fans and Elvis himself were (and are) frustrated because of the shoulda/coulda/woulda. We know he should have been doing better, we know the quality should have been there. But any other artist would have been thrilled to be in the Top 20 albums and Top 10 singles for any release.
This spell of 3-4 years is a difficult topic and will always be a point of contention among fans, but I think with a level head, it's easy to see that both sides have points and there are nuances that one side or the other are not considering. Rose colored glasses are not the most helpful or insightful, but be honest with yourself, neither is pessimism or cynicism.
Every single artist with longevity has up's and downs carrer-wise.
To write off Elvis chart achievements between 1965 - 1968 with inaccuracies just won't do.
13 hits to reach the UK charts within that time period is what some artists never get.
The FACT is he was still having hit singles throughout parts of the world other than the USA.
Let's get back to the facts instead of derailing by personal attacks and double-talk.
Andy
The FACT is that he was not having BIG hits during this period in two of the biggest markets I.e USA and UK like he did. In the UK, apart from 3 singles, one of which did get to No 1 and was recorded in 1960, all the others were bottom end of top 20 and the rest were outside. PRIOR TO this period, he was top 3 material in just about every country.
The FACT of the matter is that Elvis was not having the chart success during this period like he had years before. If we look at the movies, by 1967/8 UK distributors had virtually given up on screening his movies. Easy Come had limited distribution, Speedway was relegated to B movie against A Man a from Uncle film, Staw Away Joe had a very very limited release, whilst Live A Little did not get a release at all. Even in 69, Charro only got a special one day screening in London as a special for fans and Change of Habit did not get a release at all. All based on the poorer box office receipts in the two years before, due to the lack of interest in both music and movies by the general public. You can dress it up anyway you like, but during said period, Elvis was not recognised as the same musical force/entertainer as he had been in previous years. It is what it is. Elvis recognised that things had not been so good and decided to do something about it. If he can acknowledge there were problems, why can't certain members on this forum do the same.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
jurasic1968 wrote:So what? Elvis failed badly in the movies in the 60's. This is the reality.
Yes, and even he would admit it too.
We all know he hated these movies and the songs, but does anyone or did anyone take his feelings into account? No!
Whether or not some fans like his crap period or not doesn't take into account that he as an artist knew they were crap, some of the outtakes even reveal this, and some interviews he gave hint this too. If the fans like his mediocre work, that's all very well, but the reality of the matter they were crap songs and Elvis thought so too.
jurasic1968 wrote:So what? Elvis failed badly in the movies in the 60's. This is the reality.
Yes, and even he would admit it too.
We all know he hated these movies and the songs, but does anyone or did anyone take his feelings into account? No!
Whether or not some fans like his crap period or not doesn't take into account that he as an artist knew they were crap, some of the outtakes even reveal this, and some interviews he gave hint this too. If the fans like his mediocre work, that's all very well, but the reality of the matter they were crap songs and Elvis thought so too.
We definitely share the same thoughts at the same time lol.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
emjel wrote:Most threads here work fine until said person decides to railroad the thread with his somewhat obnoxious comments. Likes and dislikes are all subjective, but when members try to substantiate things with certain facts such as poor chart placings/poor sales to Elvis' earlier standards, his responses that you are effectively talking out of your backside can be quite infuriating for some people. We are all members of this forum because we are Elvis fans. Just because many members recognise that Elvis was only human, made mistakes, recorded some poor songs, allowed RCA to release poor material and that in the mid 60s, he was not as good as he was 5 or 10 years earlier, does not mean we have to be subjected to his 'rose tinted thoughts'. To state that Do The Clam was a worldwide smash hit is unbelievable. Thankfully, most fans will realise it was not and that during said years of 64-68, Elvis was not considered by the general public as the force he once was, hence the lower chart placings etc.during this period.
I don't even fall down on the side of defending 65-68 - even the much touted studio work of that period was unsuccessful in the charts and is barely remembered by the general public today. I very much doubt that even a cohesive packaging like the Tomorrow Is A Long Time CD would have changed the public's opinion of Elvis because what was being marketed were the movies. Elvis wasn't performing live, wasn't giving interviews, wasn't on TV - the only means of seeing him was at the movies, and as formulaic as they had become by 1966, I don't blame audiences for not going.
That being said, I see "obnoxious" comments from both sides. Goldbelt's "credible rebuttal" may not take into account the bigger picture, the fact that the movies were the driving force and they indisputably failed, but it certainly does offer at least a different perspective - the international one, which shouldn't be entirely discounted - and it's hard to argue that Elvis didn't have some successes in that period, e.g. How Great Thou Art/Crying in the Chapel. We as fans and Elvis himself were (and are) frustrated because of the shoulda/coulda/woulda. We know he should have been doing better, we know the quality should have been there. But any other artist would have been thrilled to be in the Top 20 albums and Top 10 singles for any release.
This spell of 3-4 years is a difficult topic and will always be a point of contention among fans, but I think with a level head, it's easy to see that both sides have points and there are nuances that one side or the other are not considering. Rose colored glasses are not the most helpful or insightful, but be honest with yourself, neither is pessimism or cynicism.
Every single artist with longevity has up's and downs carrer-wise.
To write off Elvis chart achievements between 1965 - 1968 with inaccuracies just won't do.
13 hits to reach the UK charts within that time period is what some artists never get.
The FACT is he was still having hit singles throughout parts of the world other than the USA.
Let's get back to the facts instead of derailing by personal attacks and double-talk.
Andy
The FACT is that he was not having BIG hits during this period in two of the biggest markets I.e USA and UK like he did.
emjel wrote:Most threads here work fine until said person decides to railroad the thread with his somewhat obnoxious comments. Likes and dislikes are all subjective, but when members try to substantiate things with certain facts such as poor chart placings/poor sales to Elvis' earlier standards, his responses that you are effectively talking out of your backside can be quite infuriating for some people. We are all members of this forum because we are Elvis fans. Just because many members recognise that Elvis was only human, made mistakes, recorded some poor songs, allowed RCA to release poor material and that in the mid 60s, he was not as good as he was 5 or 10 years earlier, does not mean we have to be subjected to his 'rose tinted thoughts'. To state that Do The Clam was a worldwide smash hit is unbelievable. Thankfully, most fans will realise it was not and that during said years of 64-68, Elvis was not considered by the general public as the force he once was, hence the lower chart placings etc.during this period.
I don't even fall down on the side of defending 65-68 - even the much touted studio work of that period was unsuccessful in the charts and is barely remembered by the general public today. I very much doubt that even a cohesive packaging like the Tomorrow Is A Long Time CD would have changed the public's opinion of Elvis because what was being marketed were the movies. Elvis wasn't performing live, wasn't giving interviews, wasn't on TV - the only means of seeing him was at the movies, and as formulaic as they had become by 1966, I don't blame audiences for not going.
That being said, I see "obnoxious" comments from both sides. Goldbelt's "credible rebuttal" may not take into account the bigger picture, the fact that the movies were the driving force and they indisputably failed, but it certainly does offer at least a different perspective - the international one, which shouldn't be entirely discounted - and it's hard to argue that Elvis didn't have some successes in that period, e.g. How Great Thou Art/Crying in the Chapel. We as fans and Elvis himself were (and are) frustrated because of the shoulda/coulda/woulda. We know he should have been doing better, we know the quality should have been there. But any other artist would have been thrilled to be in the Top 20 albums and Top 10 singles for any release.
This spell of 3-4 years is a difficult topic and will always be a point of contention among fans, but I think with a level head, it's easy to see that both sides have points and there are nuances that one side or the other are not considering. Rose colored glasses are not the most helpful or insightful, but be honest with yourself, neither is pessimism or cynicism.
Every single artist with longevity has up's and downs carrer-wise.
To write off Elvis chart achievements between 1965 - 1968 with inaccuracies just won't do.
13 hits to reach the UK charts within that time period is what some artists never get.
The FACT is he was still having hit singles throughout parts of the world other than the USA.
Let's get back to the facts instead of derailing by personal attacks and double-talk.
Andy
The FACT is that he was not having BIG hits during this period in two of the biggest markets I.e USA and UK like he did. In the UK, apart from 3 singles, one of which did get to No 1 and was recorded in 1960, all the others were bottom end of top 20 and the rest were outside. PRIOR TO this period, he was top 3 material in just about every country.
The FACT of the matter is that Elvis was not having the chart success during this period like he had years before. If we look at the movies, by 1967/8 UK distributors had virtually given up on screening his movies. Easy Come had limited distribution, Speedway was relegated to B movie against A Man a from Uncle film, Staw Away Joe had a very very limited release, whilst Live A Little did not get a release at all. Even in 69, Charro only got a special one day screening in London as a special for fans and Change of Habit did not get a release at all. All based on the poorer box office receipts in the two years before, due to the lack of interest in both music and movies by the general public. You can dress it up anyway you like, but during said period, Elvis was not recognised as the same musical force/entertainer as he had been in previous years. It is what it is. Elvis recognised that things had not been so good and decided to do something about it. If he can acknowledge there were problems, why can't certain members on this forum do the same.
No-one is saying there weren't problems but Elvis was still there - he didn't disappear chartwise as his contemporaries from the 1950's had. Top 20 is still a hit and Elvis had 8 of those within that period.
An artist will never be able to sustain top 3 continuously.
The Beatles, Tom Jones and Peter Noone (Herman's Hermits) all met Elvis in '64 and '65 and he a made worldwide news on his marriage to Priscilla in 1967 so he was still a major force.
I don't get your point with the movies as 4 of them were released after the 'ELVIS' (1968 TV Special). We all know they weren't doing as well box-office wise.
emjel wrote:Most threads here work fine until said person decides to railroad the thread with his somewhat obnoxious comments. Likes and dislikes are all subjective, but when members try to substantiate things with certain facts such as poor chart placings/poor sales to Elvis' earlier standards, his responses that you are effectively talking out of your backside can be quite infuriating for some people. We are all members of this forum because we are Elvis fans. Just because many members recognise that Elvis was only human, made mistakes, recorded some poor songs, allowed RCA to release poor material and that in the mid 60s, he was not as good as he was 5 or 10 years earlier, does not mean we have to be subjected to his 'rose tinted thoughts'. To state that Do The Clam was a worldwide smash hit is unbelievable. Thankfully, most fans will realise it was not and that during said years of 64-68, Elvis was not considered by the general public as the force he once was, hence the lower chart placings etc.during this period.
I don't even fall down on the side of defending 65-68 - even the much touted studio work of that period was unsuccessful in the charts and is barely remembered by the general public today. I very much doubt that even a cohesive packaging like the Tomorrow Is A Long Time CD would have changed the public's opinion of Elvis because what was being marketed were the movies. Elvis wasn't performing live, wasn't giving interviews, wasn't on TV - the only means of seeing him was at the movies, and as formulaic as they had become by 1966, I don't blame audiences for not going.
That being said, I see "obnoxious" comments from both sides. Goldbelt's "credible rebuttal" may not take into account the bigger picture, the fact that the movies were the driving force and they indisputably failed, but it certainly does offer at least a different perspective - the international one, which shouldn't be entirely discounted - and it's hard to argue that Elvis didn't have some successes in that period, e.g. How Great Thou Art/Crying in the Chapel. We as fans and Elvis himself were (and are) frustrated because of the shoulda/coulda/woulda. We know he should have been doing better, we know the quality should have been there. But any other artist would have been thrilled to be in the Top 20 albums and Top 10 singles for any release.
This spell of 3-4 years is a difficult topic and will always be a point of contention among fans, but I think with a level head, it's easy to see that both sides have points and there are nuances that one side or the other are not considering. Rose colored glasses are not the most helpful or insightful, but be honest with yourself, neither is pessimism or cynicism.
Every single artist with longevity has up's and downs carrer-wise.
To write off Elvis chart achievements between 1965 - 1968 with inaccuracies just won't do.
13 hits to reach the UK charts within that time period is what some artists never get.
The FACT is he was still having hit singles throughout parts of the world other than the USA.
Let's get back to the facts instead of derailing by personal attacks and double-talk.
Andy
The FACT is that he was not having BIG hits during this period in two of the biggest markets I.e USA and ]UK like he did.
Secondary to the Japan, Asian market.
Japan might have had a decent record buying population, but not the rest of Asia. And you are basing your support for this period on Do The Clam supposedly getting to No.1 in Japan. All you are doing is clutching at straws.
~
Living is easy with eyes closed...misunderstanding all you see...
They kept buying them records!
So what does that tell you?! The behavior of both men is so unnecessary.
