Revelator wrote:Someone earlier grouped "Padre" with "Rags to Riches"--though his purpose was to damn both, I think "Padre" is an unsuccessful version of what Elvis achieved with "Rags to Riches." The latter song conveys more emotion in more muscular way, whereas "Padre"'s vocals have a note of hesitancy that makes even the grand finale feel slightly removed, as if there was a mental block that prevented Elvis from leaping to the song's jugular, the way he did in "Rags." The master feels like an outtake.
I like Rags to Riches - not because of Elvis's bombast, but in spite of it. And because it was on one of the LPs I heard growing up (Hits of the 70s). I recognise that Elvis starts off loud, continues loudly, and then gets a bit louder at the end. It's hardly a subtle performance. But I think the thing here is that Elvis swaggering his way up to the microphone and just letting rip with everything he had. Perhaps he was in a bad mood. Perhaps his mind was not where it should be. But the key thing with Rags to Riches - and this is clearly what the British public thought when it took it into to the top 10 - is that it doesn't matter. Elvis attacks the song in a way he had never attacked a ballad before, and it doesn't matter why he did it, only that he had his instrument, his voice, was capable of pulling it off.
I don't see the same thing with Padre at all. Elvis is yelling his way through the song not through wanting to show off his vocal power, but because his voice was not in the form it was a seven or eight months earlier. Rags to Riches might be over the top, it might be Elvis letting out frustrations, but Padre is Elvis clearly frustrated that he can't deliver the goods. And if we listen to the takes we have, he seems to get louder and more desperate with each and every one.
Revelator wrote:Someone earlier grouped "Padre" with "Rags to Riches"--though his purpose was to damn both, I think "Padre" is an unsuccessful version of what Elvis achieved with "Rags to Riches." The latter song conveys more emotion in more muscular way, whereas "Padre"'s vocals have a note of hesitancy that makes even the grand finale feel slightly removed, as if there was a mental block that prevented Elvis from leaping to the song's jugular, the way he did in "Rags." The master feels like an outtake.
I like Rags to Riches - not because of Elvis's bombast, but in spite of it. And because it was on one of the LPs I heard growing up (Hits of the 70s). I recognise that Elvis starts off loud, continues loudly, and then gets a bit louder at the end. It's hardly a subtle performance. But I think the thing here is that Elvis swaggering his way up to the microphone and just letting rip with everything he had. Perhaps he was in a bad mood. Perhaps his mind was not where it should be. But the key thing with Rags to Riches - and this is clearly what the British public thought when it took it into to the top 10 - is that it doesn't matter. Elvis attacks the song in a way he had never attacked a ballad before, and it doesn't matter why he did it, only that he had his instrument, his voice, was capable of pulling it off.
I don't see the same thing with Padre at all. Elvis is yelling his way through the song not through wanting to show off his vocal power, but because his voice was not in the form it was a seven or eight months earlier. Rags to Riches might be over the top, it might be Elvis letting out frustrations, but Padre is Elvis clearly frustrated that he can't deliver the goods. And if we listen to the takes we have, he seems to get louder and more desperate with each and every one.
I think what we hear on RTR is amphetamine induced. By Padre he's heavy into all kinds of stuff that impacts his voice and vocal control. Not crippling yet but on the way. This Sept 1970 session could have been magnificent. His voice peaked here imo or perhaps better said it was the last time it would be this good. Unfortunately he had no desire to be there and powers through-no nuance or delicacy after snowbird. I still find it amazing that Snowbird was recorded at the same time as the other 3.
Hack n. 1. a person, esp. a professional, who surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward
Revelator wrote:Someone earlier grouped "Padre" with "Rags to Riches"--though his purpose was to damn both, I think "Padre" is an unsuccessful version of what Elvis achieved with "Rags to Riches." The latter song conveys more emotion in more muscular way, whereas "Padre"'s vocals have a note of hesitancy that makes even the grand finale feel slightly removed, as if there was a mental block that prevented Elvis from leaping to the song's jugular, the way he did in "Rags." The master feels like an outtake.
I like Rags to Riches - not because of Elvis's bombast, but in spite of it. And because it was on one of the LPs I heard growing up (Hits of the 70s). I recognise that Elvis starts off loud, continues loudly, and then gets a bit louder at the end. It's hardly a subtle performance. But I think the thing here is that Elvis swaggering his way up to the microphone and just letting rip with everything he had. Perhaps he was in a bad mood. Perhaps his mind was not where it should be. But the key thing with Rags to Riches - and this is clearly what the British public thought when it took it into to the top 10 - is that it doesn't matter. Elvis attacks the song in a way he had never attacked a ballad before, and it doesn't matter why he did it, only that he had his instrument, his voice, was capable of pulling it off.
I don't see the same thing with Padre at all. Elvis is yelling his way through the song not through wanting to show off his vocal power, but because his voice was not in the form it was a seven or eight months earlier. Rags to Riches might be over the top, it might be Elvis letting out frustrations, but Padre is Elvis clearly frustrated that he can't deliver the goods. And if we listen to the takes we have, he seems to get louder and more desperate with each and every one.
I think what we hear on RTR is amphetamine induced. By Padre he's heavy into all kinds of stuff that impacts his voice and vocal control. Not crippling yet but on the way. This Sept 1970 session could have been magnificent. His voice peaked here imo or perhaps better said it was the last time it would be this good. Unfortunately he had no desire to be there and powers through-no nuance or delicacy after snowbird. I still find it amazing that Snowbird was recorded at the same time as the other 3.
I don't think it matters what state Elvis was in providing he was delivering. Much music and art and literature has been produced in all kinds of states and no-one gives a damn. This is where knowing too much information about a session is not good. Whole Lotta Shakin is often viewed here as an amphetamine-fuelled frenzy - by the same people who bemoan the fact that Elvis wasn't taking songs and making them his own, which is exactly what he did there. What's clear, though, is that Elvis had been singing Rags to Riches that way for years - we know this because when he performed it as a one-off in 1976, it's done in the same way. I very much doubt he would have remembered that arrangement from 1970 if he wasn't singing it this way for years just for fun in private.
fn2drive wrote:I think what we hear on RTR is amphetamine induced. By Padre he's heavy into all kinds of stuff that impacts his voice and vocal control. Not crippling yet but on the way. This Sept 1970 session could have been magnificent. His voice peaked here imo or perhaps better said it was the last time it would be this good. Unfortunately he had no desire to be there and powers through-no nuance or delicacy after snowbird. I still find it amazing that Snowbird was recorded at the same time as the other 3.
I don't think it matters what state Elvis was in providing he was delivering.
And when he is not, as fn2drive points out is true of both the 1970 and 1971 sessions, it matters quite a bit what state the singer was in, both physically and mentally.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
poormadpeter2 wrote:
I don't think it matters what state Elvis was in providing he was delivering. Much music and art and literature has been produced in all kinds of states and no-one gives a damn. This is where knowing too much information about a session is not good. Whole Lotta Shakin is often viewed here as an amphetamine-fuelled frenzy - by the same people who bemoan the fact that Elvis wasn't taking songs and making them his own, which is exactly what he did there. What's clear, though, is that Elvis had been singing Rags to Riches that way for years - we know this because when he performed it as a one-off in 1976, it's done in the same way. I very much doubt he would have remembered that arrangement from 1970 if he wasn't singing it this way for years just for fun in private.
Agreed. It's clear that Elvis delivered a far more committed and heartfelt performance of "Rags to Riches" than "Padre," which seems blustery and devoid of passion. I don't understand the mindset that praises the "subtlety" of pleasant, undemanding fluff like "Snowbird" and overlooks what Elvis does with "Rags," which is to take a placid American songbook standard and give it the full Elvis treatment: un-self-consciously bringing out the buried emotions overlooked by other singers. Elvis's version is the only one I know of where the singer really sounds like someone who's gone from complete poverty to the richness of love and is terrified of becoming a beggar again. Even Jackie Wilson, the singer I love most next to Elvis, doesn't convey that (and if Jackie Wilson's versions were Elvis's model, no one could really call those subtle either). What Elvis does here is what he does in his best ballads--take songwriters' cliches and make them sound like a genuine emotional experience. The "wired intensity" that Peter Gurlanick detects in that September session contributes to the "weirdly beautiful" performance of "Rags," a song about the uncertainty and highs-and-lows of being in-and-out of love, rather than detracting from it.
"Padre" by contrast is undermined by whatever was limiting his voice, which lacks the muscularity he employed in "Rags," so the climax is underwhelming. The rest of the performance suffers from uncreative, monotonous phrasing--you'd never guess the song meant anything to him by listening to this version--and a narrative pompousness that detracts from the drama, rather than enhancing it. He buries emotion instead of experiencing it.
I liked Padre when I was a child, but grew to almost dislike it as I got older. I think it needed "tidying up" Elvis could have done a beautiful version in the early '60's. I once loved Rags To Riches too but can't listen to it now. Elvis sounds like he's shouting to me now...
Dan_T wrote:I liked Padre when I was a child, but grew to almost dislike it as I got older. I think it needed "tidying up" Elvis could have done a beautiful version in the early '60's. I once loved Rags To Riches too but can't listen to it now. Elvis sounds like he's shouting to me now...
Both songs would have been much better if Elvis sang them in 1960/61. He was a better singer then.
r&b wrote:Both songs would have been much better if Elvis sang them in 1960/61. He was a better singer then.
This seems to be turning into a forum cliche, and I don't fully buy it. Certainly both songs would have been prettier and more subdued, with better vocal control. "Padre" would have benefited because the version we have is bad to start with. But I'm not convinced "Rags" would have been better, only more technically assured. Elvis's voice was probably at its flexible in 1961, but he was at his best from 1968 to 1970.
r&b wrote:Both songs would have been much better if Elvis sang them in 1960/61. He was a better singer then.
This seems to be turning into a forum cliche, and I don't fully buy it. Certainly both songs would have been prettier and more subdued, with better vocal control. "Padre" would have benefited because the version we have is bad to start with. But I'm not convinced "Rags" would have been better, only more technically assured. Elvis's voice was probably at its flexible in 1961, but he was at his best from 1968 to 1970.
I agree with your whole post and especially the high lighted part... the recordings of both seem a little sloppy to me know, as apposed to the recording quality of the early '60's...that's what I mean about "Tidying up" Elvis' insistence of using a hand Mic for instance doesn't do any favours to these later recordings.
"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
"Padre" is a priest that blessed the marriage at the start of the song and after he's left all alone, asks the priest (Padre) to pray for his love and him. The title also includes songs about faith and inspiration.
Elvis himself included the non-religious "A Thing Called Love' on "He Touched Me" Album. Anyway, sorry for you guys all worried about "Padre'" meriting inclusion on that Joan Deary "He Walks Beside Me" album release. I was ecstatic about the inclusion of the unreleased "If I Can Dream" outtake and "Impossible Dream" unreleased live version!
poormadpeter2 wrote:
I don't think it matters what state Elvis was in providing he was delivering. Much music and art and literature has been produced in all kinds of states and no-one gives a damn. This is where knowing too much information about a session is not good. Whole Lotta Shakin is often viewed here as an amphetamine-fuelled frenzy - by the same people who bemoan the fact that Elvis wasn't taking songs and making them his own, which is exactly what he did there. What's clear, though, is that Elvis had been singing Rags to Riches that way for years - we know this because when he performed it as a one-off in 1976, it's done in the same way. I very much doubt he would have remembered that arrangement from 1970 if he wasn't singing it this way for years just for fun in private.
Agreed. It's clear that Elvis delivered a far more committed and heartfelt performance of "Rags to Riches" than "Padre," which seems blustery and devoid of passion. I don't understand the mindset that praises the "subtlety" of pleasant, undemanding fluff like "Snowbird" and overlooks what Elvis does with "Rags," which is to take a placid American songbook standard and give it the full Elvis treatment: un-self-consciously bringing out the buried emotions overlooked by other singers. Elvis's version is the only one I know of where the singer really sounds like someone who's gone from complete poverty to the richness of love and is terrified of becoming a beggar again. Even Jackie Wilson, the singer I love most next to Elvis, doesn't convey that (and if Jackie Wilson's versions were Elvis's model, no one could really call those subtle either). What Elvis does here is what he does in his best ballads--take songwriters' cliches and make them sound like a genuine emotional experience. The "wired intensity" that Peter Gurlanick detects in that September session contributes to the "weirdly beautiful" performance of "Rags," a song about the uncertainty and highs-and-lows of being in-and-out of love, rather than detracting from it.
"Padre" by contrast is undermined by whatever was limiting his voice, which lacks the muscularity he employed in "Rags," so the climax is underwhelming. The rest of the performance suffers from uncreative, monotonous phrasing--you'd never guess the song meant anything to him by listening to this version--and a narrative pompousness that detracts from the drama, rather than enhancing it. He buries emotion instead of experiencing it.
To be clear i not offering up Snowbird as the second coming. Just contrasting it (and his rather nuanced and delicate rendering which is what it needed) to the uncontrolled bombast of RTR and Where did They Go. It always seemed that the amphetemines took over as the session wore on. And he clearly had no interest in being there. I love his take on Whole Lotta Shakin but there is zero discipline in this song. Just get it done and get out. His producer operated the tape recorder at this session.
Hack n. 1. a person, esp. a professional, who surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
"Padre" is a priest that blessed the marriage at the start of the song and after he's left all alone, asks the priest (Padre) to pray for his love and him. The title also includes songs about faith and inspiration.
Elvis himself included the non-religious "A Thing Called Love' on "He Touched Me" Album. Anyway, sorry for you guys all worried about "Padre'" meriting inclusion on that Joan Deary "He Walks Beside Me" album release. I was ecstatic about the inclusion of the unreleased "If I Can Dream" outtake and "Impossible Dream" unreleased live version!
Exactly how the genius of Felton gave us Good Times-lets see how many tracks with Good Times we can cram into a theme album. Hey what about For The Good Times? Nah save that for Good Times 2.
Hack n. 1. a person, esp. a professional, who surrenders individual independence, integrity, belief, etc., in return for money or other reward
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
"Padre" is a priest that blessed the marriage at the start of the song and after he's left all alone, asks the priest (Padre) to pray for his love and him. The title also includes songs about faith and inspiration.
Elvis himself included the non-religious "A Thing Called Love' on "He Touched Me" Album. Anyway, sorry for you guys all worried about "Padre'" meriting inclusion on that Joan Deary "He Walks Beside Me" album release. I was ecstatic about the inclusion of the unreleased "If I Can Dream" outtake and "Impossible Dream" unreleased live version!
I can see by this post you have no idea of "concept", or the understanding of how things should be done based on an idea.
Last edited by Davelee on Wed May 25, 2016 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
fn2drive wrote:To be clear i not offering up Snowbird as the second coming. Just contrasting it (and his rather nuanced and delicate rendering which is what it needed) to the uncontrolled bombast of RTR and Where did They Go. It always seemed that the amphetemines took over as the session wore on. And he clearly had no interest in being there.
"Snowbird" isn't a creatively nuanced or delicate recording though--it's a nice but undemanding cover of Anne Murray's version and sounds far more tossed-off than the tracks you dislike. It doesn't have the originality of Elvis's attack on "Rags," which is more aggressive and impassioned than bombastic. The mind-reading attempt doesn't work, because we know what Elvis sounded like when he had no interest in being a recording studio: lifeless.
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
"Padre" is a priest that blessed the marriage at the start of the song and after he's left all alone, asks the priest (Padre) to pray for his love and him. The title also includes songs about faith and inspiration.
Elvis himself included the non-religious "A Thing Called Love' on "He Touched Me" Album. Anyway, sorry for you guys all worried about "Padre'" meriting inclusion on that Joan Deary "He Walks Beside Me" album release. I was ecstatic about the inclusion of the unreleased "If I Can Dream" outtake and "Impossible Dream" unreleased live version!
Exactly how the genius of Felton gave us Good Times-lets see how many tracks with Good Times we can cram into a theme album. Hey what about For The Good Times? Nah save that for Good Times 2.
You are just talking for the sake of it. If it only made a little sense...
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
"Padre" is a priest that blessed the marriage at the start of the song and after he's left all alone, asks the priest (Padre) to pray for his love and him. The title also includes songs about faith and inspiration.
Elvis himself included the non-religious "A Thing Called Love' on "He Touched Me" Album. Anyway, sorry for you guys all worried about "Padre'" meriting inclusion on that Joan Deary "He Walks Beside Me" album release. I was ecstatic about the inclusion of the unreleased "If I Can Dream" outtake and "Impossible Dream" unreleased live version!
I can see by this post you have no idea of "concept", or the understanding of how things should be done based on an idea.
I can see you are incapable of getting the idea I was driving at. No surprise.
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
It's not really about being classy so much as having a clear idea of the man's music. This is not the case with the producer of this LP.
"Padre" is an old-school pop ballad. It is neither a song of faith nor inspiration. The person in this song is lamenting the breakup of his or her marriage to the priest who presided over the union. That doesn't make it "religious." He or she could have been down at their local bar, crying his or her eyes out, singing "Barkeep, oh, barkeep, in my grief I turn to you."
Another inept choice on that 1978 LP was the inclusion of "Where Did They Go, Lord." The Frazier and Owens tune is another lost love lament, where a man is talking to himself. He could have sung "where did they go, Bob" and it wouldn't have changed the fact that it is not a song of faith or inspiration.
Last edited by drjohncarpenter on Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
. Dr. John Carpenter, M.D. Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
drjohncarpenter wrote:"Padre" first stood out for me when RCA's Joan Deary included it in an album of religious numbers.
He Walks Beside Me (RCA AFL1 2772, February 14, 1978)
Subtitled "Favorite Songs of Faith and Inspiration," it was the first RCA LP since Elvis In Concert the previous October. I thought to myself, it can't get worse than this. I was mistaken.
Padre in with religious music
RCA were a classy company
"Padre" is a priest that blessed the marriage at the start of the song and after he's left all alone, asks the priest (Padre) to pray for his love and him. The title also includes songs about faith and inspiration.
Elvis himself included the non-religious "A Thing Called Love' on "He Touched Me" Album. Anyway, sorry for you guys all worried about "Padre'" meriting inclusion on that Joan Deary "He Walks Beside Me" album release. I was ecstatic about the inclusion of the unreleased "If I Can Dream" outtake and "Impossible Dream" unreleased live version!
I can see by this post you have no idea of "concept", or the understanding of how things should be done based on an idea.
I can see you are incapable of getting the idea I was driving at. No surprise.
That is correct, because what you're saying has no valid point, so therefore the reader would be confused. No surprise.
Padre in with religious music 
