Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

[Ciscoking]

To some extent Elvis was a creature of habit.

I see his remarks regarding 'Tiger Man' as just something he said off the cuff.

It's like when he messed with the lyrics of 'Don't Be Cruel' in concert with the 'you feel like you been had', 'kick your ***' lyrics. He was doing that in 1970 and still in 1972.

Andy

He did that already in 1969.

[Gamma Master]

To some extent Elvis was a creature of habit.

I see his remarks regarding 'Tiger Man' as just something he said off the cuff.

It's like when he messed with the lyrics of 'Don't Be Cruel' in concert with the 'you feel like you been had', 'kick your ***' lyrics. He was doing that in 1970 and still in 1972.

Andy

He did that already in 1969.

Still did it in '77 too

[Moderator3]

!

Message from: Moderator3

A reminder. Personal wars will not be tolerated in this or any other topic. Some need to be reminded further that the topic here is if Elvis recorded Tiger Man at SUN Records. This is not a topic about trying to bait members. Those believing in a larger conspiracy need to be reminded that if a members' username is not green or red in color they do not have the ability to delete or edit submissions in this or any other section. If the member has a section of their own then in some cases they are listed as a moderator in that section alone as a technicality. Further thread drift will result in suspensions. Please keep things on topic from here on in. Thank you.

[EP Fan]

Every sane person knows the likelyhood of acetates been made is as good as a certainty. Some people seem to not want it to exist as the Doc would be proven right.
How sad and childish can one be....

Sweeping statement about who is a sane person. Others:

-Acetate is virtually certain; think otherwise and you are not sane/are insane
-People who question assertions and evidence rigorously do so because they do not want the object to exist
-They don’t want it to exist because individual X has a theory based on questionable evidence so far
-By examining the current analysis and the use of evidence, people are sad and childish.

You got it.

[Wayfarer]

Every sane person knows the likelyhood of acetates been made is as good as a certainty. Some people seem to not want it to exist as the Doc would be proven right.
How sad and childish can one be....

Sweeping statement about who is a sane person. Others:

-Acetate is virtually certain; think otherwise and you are not sane/are insane
-People who question assertions and evidence rigorously do so because they do not want the object to exist
-They don’t want it to exist because individual X has a theory based on questionable evidence so far
-By examining the current analysis and the use of evidence, people are sad and childish.

You got it.

There’s always a reason for editing another's words. Here is the original:

Sweeping statement about who is a sane person. Others:

-Acetate is virtually certain; think otherwise and you are not sane/are insane
-People who question assertions and evidence rigorously do so because they do not want the object to exist
-They don’t want it to exist because individual X has a theory based on questionable evidence so far
-By examining the current analysis and the use of evidence, people are sad and childish

I don’t think even the starter of this topic would agree with all or any of that.

In the last year or so, "The Man and Music Magazine", considered the words surrounding a "Golden Gate Quartet" tape. Let's not go off-topic, but you get the point about questioning words, asking people who were there, and finding inconsistencies in recollections. At no point did the author say they did not want the tape to exist - the same applies to any historic find in arts or science.

[drjohncarpenter]

Earlier in this topic I shared super-fan John Heath's July 1954 Sun acetate find.

Given all the recent discussion about how producer Sam Phillips operated after making Elvis his top priority, I thought I'd share the full FB posting, including some interesting additional information from John.

The label, likely typed by assistant Marion Keisker, reads:

SUN

PRE RELEASE SAMPLE

ELVIS PRESLEY

and Scotty Moore's Band

with SCOTTY + BILL

209

What is interesting about the hand-written change to the typing is that Marion assumed Elvis had the backing of the Starlight Wranglers, Scotty's current band. Someone, presumably Sam, told her it was just two of the members, Scotty and Bill. She had no idea.

John Heath
Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 4:56 AM

This is a Pre-release sample acetate of Elvis first recording at Sun studio, “That’s Alright/ Blue Moon Of Kentucky” This acetate was made and given out to WHBQ to play on the air before the vinyl was pressed. The record was made after cutting the B side/Blue Moon of Kentucky, somewhere after July 8th, 1954. It play on the air from July 9/17 to promote Elvis’ first single. The record was then taken by secretary of the radio station and given to her best friend daughter when they received the pressed vinyl. It remained with her until I purchased it from her 50 years later. It truly is the rarest vinyl in the world. It’s the song that changed the world. Hope you enjoy.

540709_Sun acetate_John Heath.jpg

John Heath
Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 5:57 AM

This is probably the rarest thing in my collection. It is on loan to the Johnny Cash Museum in Nashville. I did the Elvis part on "Legend Of Sun"



John Heath
Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 3:43 PM

Now! the story. Several years ago while at work Marion Jr High. I got a call from a friend (Mile Lollar) a reporter for the Memphis Commercial Appeal. Mike, had done several stories on me for the paper. He said, " that he had lady who wanted to get in touch with me" and he asked would it be alright to give out my phone number. I told him sure that would be fine . I thought that it would be another whiskey decanters or old album that she wanted to get rid of. The next evening I received a call and it was from the lady that had receive my number. She started to tell me something about this record that she had and told me that her mother best friend worked at WHBQ and gave it to her. She lived in Poplar Bluff, Mo. Anyway, I said, how about us meeting in Blytheville, AR. She, "how about Walmart" I said that would be fine. So the next day after school my and I drove to Blytheville. We met her at Walmart in the canteen. We had the usual acknowledgement and we sat down and then she pulls out the old album jacket and then she pulled out the record. I nearly died. I was speechless and I told her what she had. A test pressing of Elvis early recording. I asked her how she came about to get the record. She said she was a little girl and that her mother best friend worked at WHBQ radio in Memphis and that she knew that her friends daughter was a huge Elvis fan. She said the lady told her mother that when the pressed vinyl came to the radio station she asked her boss could she have the acetate, he said "sure".She took the record to her friends daughter. The lady told me the she played for a view times and put in back into the album cover and kept it for 50 years. She said, that it was time to sell. I asked her how much she wanted and she didn't know. I made an offer and she declined. I then asked her for the right of first refusal and she agreed t. I waited and waited and then finally she called and gave me an amount that we both agreed on drove the record to my house a week later. I'm still blown away over this piece.



John Heath
Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 4:17 AM

This record is now on loan to the, "Johnny Cash Museum" in Nashville, Tn. I have fourteen items out of my collection their, I did the Elvis portion ,"Legends Of Sun". If you are in Nashville, go by and see it. Bill Miller, the owner of the museum has done a great job and has a great museum.


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1065707840132585&set=pb.100000801360167.-2207520000..&type=3

[escapeguy]

Elvis tried a lot of songs out at Sun studios. A lot. Sam had the tape machine running most of the time. There is more than a good chance Tiger Man was one of thee songs. What happened to all those tapes is anyone's guess, but it was probably recorded along with other tunes.

Sam didn't like to waste tape so any such recordings are taped over, erased and lost forever.

Andy

So we are told.

And yet Sam kept tapes of Blue Moon, Harbor Lights, I Love You Because, I Got a Woman, When it Rains it Really Pours, I'll Never Let You Go, Satisfied, Tomorrow Night and the early version of Trying to Get to You - recordings he had no intention of ever releasing himself.

So this notion that Sam taped over everything he didn't want is clearly not true, and probably just another false rumour that has been told so often that it has become regarded as "truth".

And, of course, the undeniable fact that Philips kept lots of Elvis recordings on tape that he was not going to use is something that will never be addressed by those trying to make out that the Sun Tiger Man master recording occurred. Why would Sam tape over a song he viewed as a master and thought enough of to make acetates from, but keep I Love You Because, Harbor Lights, the first version of Trying to Get to You, or a 75 second run through of Satisfied? It makes absolutely no sense - unless of course Tiger Man never achieved a master take, was never considered as a second single, and no acetates were ever made.

Interestingly an acetate WAS made of My Baby's Gone so it MUST have been considered for release at some point before it was re-recorded as I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone. If Tiger Man was considered in a similar manner and such acetates (plural) MUST have been pressed and distributed for review, then where are they and where is the corroborating evidence in the form of said acetates, paperwork, tape, or memories other than Elvis comments that were made 15 or 16 years later? That's all we're asking for.

Exactly. And the tapes were kept for My Baby's Gone, too.

I am sooooo not an expert on this but in the Elvis world you never know what could show up. For example until a few years ago I’m A Roustabout wasn’t even known or rumored then all of a sudden the writer goes hey wait a minute and finds an old acetate in his trunk…..We never knew about the wire recording of I’m left your right she’s gone and while Ernst is releasing this epic release all of a sudden boom wire recording.
I have no issue believing Tiger Man was recorded at sun or perhaps the other studio in Memphis.

I’m probably wrong, i usually am, ask my ex lol. But hey what if?….

[pmp]

Elvis tried a lot of songs out at Sun studios. A lot. Sam had the tape machine running most of the time. There is more than a good chance Tiger Man was one of thee songs. What happened to all those tapes is anyone's guess, but it was probably recorded along with other tunes.

Sam didn't like to waste tape so any such recordings are taped over, erased and lost forever.

Andy

So we are told.

And yet Sam kept tapes of Blue Moon, Harbor Lights, I Love You Because, I Got a Woman, When it Rains it Really Pours, I'll Never Let You Go, Satisfied, Tomorrow Night and the early version of Trying to Get to You - recordings he had no intention of ever releasing himself.

So this notion that Sam taped over everything he didn't want is clearly not true, and probably just another false rumour that has been told so often that it has become regarded as "truth".

And, of course, the undeniable fact that Philips kept lots of Elvis recordings on tape that he was not going to use is something that will never be addressed by those trying to make out that the Sun Tiger Man master recording occurred. Why would Sam tape over a song he viewed as a master and thought enough of to make acetates from, but keep I Love You Because, Harbor Lights, the first version of Trying to Get to You, or a 75 second run through of Satisfied? It makes absolutely no sense - unless of course Tiger Man never achieved a master take, was never considered as a second single, and no acetates were ever made.

Interestingly an acetate WAS made of My Baby's Gone so it MUST have been considered for release at some point before it was re-recorded as I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone. If Tiger Man was considered in a similar manner and such acetates (plural) MUST have been pressed and distributed for review, then where are they and where is the corroborating evidence in the form of said acetates, paperwork, tape, or memories other than Elvis comments that were made 15 or 16 years later? That's all we're asking for.

Exactly. And the tapes were kept for My Baby's Gone, too.

I am sooooo not an expert on this but in the Elvis world you never know what could show up. For example until a few years ago I’m A Roustabout wasn’t even known or rumored then all of a sudden the writer goes hey wait a minute and finds an old acetate in his trunk…..We never knew about the wire recording of I’m left your right she’s gone and while Ernst is releasing this epic release all of a sudden boom wire recording.
I have no issue believing Tiger Man was recorded at sun or perhaps the other studio in Memphis.

I’m probably wrong, i usually am, ask my ex lol. But hey what if?….

It's very different finding a live recording or a forgotten movie song to finding a master take where copies were supposedly pressed and sent to DJs. There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

[EP Fan]

Elvis tried a lot of songs out at Sun studios. A lot. Sam had the tape machine running most of the time. There is more than a good chance Tiger Man was one of thee songs. What happened to all those tapes is anyone's guess, but it was probably recorded along with other tunes.

Sam didn't like to waste tape so any such recordings are taped over, erased and lost forever.

Andy

So we are told.

And yet Sam kept tapes of Blue Moon, Harbor Lights, I Love You Because, I Got a Woman, When it Rains it Really Pours, I'll Never Let You Go, Satisfied, Tomorrow Night and the early version of Trying to Get to You - recordings he had no intention of ever releasing himself.

So this notion that Sam taped over everything he didn't want is clearly not true, and probably just another false rumour that has been told so often that it has become regarded as "truth".

And, of course, the undeniable fact that Philips kept lots of Elvis recordings on tape that he was not going to use is something that will never be addressed by those trying to make out that the Sun Tiger Man master recording occurred. Why would Sam tape over a song he viewed as a master and thought enough of to make acetates from, but keep I Love You Because, Harbor Lights, the first version of Trying to Get to You, or a 75 second run through of Satisfied? It makes absolutely no sense - unless of course Tiger Man never achieved a master take, was never considered as a second single, and no acetates were ever made.

Interestingly an acetate WAS made of My Baby's Gone so it MUST have been considered for release at some point before it was re-recorded as I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone. If Tiger Man was considered in a similar manner and such acetates (plural) MUST have been pressed and distributed for review, then where are they and where is the corroborating evidence in the form of said acetates, paperwork, tape, or memories other than Elvis comments that were made 15 or 16 years later? That's all we're asking for.

Exactly. And the tapes were kept for My Baby's Gone, too.

I am sooooo not an expert on this but in the Elvis world you never know what could show up. For example until a few years ago I’m A Roustabout wasn’t even known or rumored then all of a sudden the writer goes hey wait a minute and finds an old acetate in his trunk…..We never knew about the wire recording of I’m left your right she’s gone and while Ernst is releasing this epic release all of a sudden boom wire recording.
I have no issue believing Tiger Man was recorded at sun or perhaps the other studio in Memphis.

I’m probably wrong, i usually am, ask my ex lol. But hey what if?….

It's very different finding a live recording or a forgotten movie song to finding a master take where copies were supposedly pressed and sent to DJs. There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

It's fascinating how you keep returning to a topic you find totally incredible. The acetate(s) are out there and I can't wait till its discovery. In that case a phrase like "Holy Grail" is more than justified, unlike when finding a rusted old ambulance

[drjohncarpenter]

Billboard's major article on Elvis' signing to RCA in 1955 appeared in their December 3rd issue.

Billboard Dec 03 1955_p01.jpg

Billboard Dec 03 1955_p15.jpg

Billboard - December 3, 1955



Among the many interesting things in it is this paragraph:

The Victor deal involved a reported pay-off of $40.000 to Sun Records for Presley's contract. The latter still had a year to run. In addition, Victor acquired rights to all of the singer's Sun pressings, including five unreleased waxings as well. Presley's most recent Sun disk, "I Forgot to Remember to Forget," No. 4 on the c.&w. retail best-seller chart this week, will be brought out shortly under the Victor label.

Wow. Of the "five unreleased waxings" these specific titles come to mind, as RCA did indeed issue them:


I Love You Because
Blue Moon
Tomorrow Night
I'll Never Let You Go
Just Because
Tryin' to Get to You


But that's six "unreleased waxings."

Is it possible that RCA really didn't have a handle on what they'd received from Sam Phillips?

[drjohncarpenter]

It's very different finding a live recording or a forgotten movie song to finding a master take where copies were supposedly pressed and sent to DJs. There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

It's fascinating how you keep returning to a topic you find totally incredible. The acetate(s) are out there and I can't wait till its discovery. In that case a phrase like "Holy Grail" is more than justified, unlike when finding a rusted old ambulance

He returns because he is obsessed with trolling the discussion. As he declared on this topic just last week, " I can't stand you." So everything he writes has nothing to do with "Tiger Man" and everything to do with me. It's kind of creepy.

And, of course, he's wrong twice over in the quoted statement.

The tapes from Sun were handed over in December 1955, if not sooner.

And as noted on previous pages of this topic, a finished master of "I'm Left, You're Right, My Baby's Gone" was not known about until super-fan Cees Klop, "The Boppin' Dutchman," found an acetate of it in Memphis in 1970.

Sadly, he passed away in August 2017. Read more about Cees here:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1524404-Cees-Klop
http://www.rockabillyhall.com/ThatsNewToMe03.html
https://www.facebook.com/RockabillyDJ/posts/a-tribute-to-cees-klop-of-collector-records

[pmp]

Elvis tried a lot of songs out at Sun studios. A lot. Sam had the tape machine running most of the time. There is more than a good chance Tiger Man was one of thee songs. What happened to all those tapes is anyone's guess, but it was probably recorded along with other tunes.

Sam didn't like to waste tape so any such recordings are taped over, erased and lost forever.

Andy

So we are told.

And yet Sam kept tapes of Blue Moon, Harbor Lights, I Love You Because, I Got a Woman, When it Rains it Really Pours, I'll Never Let You Go, Satisfied, Tomorrow Night and the early version of Trying to Get to You - recordings he had no intention of ever releasing himself.

So this notion that Sam taped over everything he didn't want is clearly not true, and probably just another false rumour that has been told so often that it has become regarded as "truth".

And, of course, the undeniable fact that Philips kept lots of Elvis recordings on tape that he was not going to use is something that will never be addressed by those trying to make out that the Sun Tiger Man master recording occurred. Why would Sam tape over a song he viewed as a master and thought enough of to make acetates from, but keep I Love You Because, Harbor Lights, the first version of Trying to Get to You, or a 75 second run through of Satisfied? It makes absolutely no sense - unless of course Tiger Man never achieved a master take, was never considered as a second single, and no acetates were ever made.

Interestingly an acetate WAS made of My Baby's Gone so it MUST have been considered for release at some point before it was re-recorded as I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone. If Tiger Man was considered in a similar manner and such acetates (plural) MUST have been pressed and distributed for review, then where are they and where is the corroborating evidence in the form of said acetates, paperwork, tape, or memories other than Elvis comments that were made 15 or 16 years later? That's all we're asking for.

Exactly. And the tapes were kept for My Baby's Gone, too.

I am sooooo not an expert on this but in the Elvis world you never know what could show up. For example until a few years ago I’m A Roustabout wasn’t even known or rumored then all of a sudden the writer goes hey wait a minute and finds an old acetate in his trunk…..We never knew about the wire recording of I’m left your right she’s gone and while Ernst is releasing this epic release all of a sudden boom wire recording.
I have no issue believing Tiger Man was recorded at sun or perhaps the other studio in Memphis.

I’m probably wrong, i usually am, ask my ex lol. But hey what if?….

It's very different finding a live recording or a forgotten movie song to finding a master take where copies were supposedly pressed and sent to DJs. There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

It's fascinating how you keep returning to a topic you find totally incredible. The acetate(s) are out there and I can't wait till its discovery. In that case a phrase like "Holy Grail" is more than justified, unlike when finding a rusted old ambulance

And you base this solely on Elvis's comments on stage. None of which mention an acetate. None of which mention DJs having heard them. In other words, no evidence whatsoever that the acetates existed in the first place, let alone that they still exist now.

[pmp]

It's very different finding a live recording or a forgotten movie song to finding a master take where copies were supposedly pressed and sent to DJs. There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

It's fascinating how you keep returning to a topic you find totally incredible. The acetate(s) are out there and I can't wait till its discovery. In that case a phrase like "Holy Grail" is more than justified, unlike when finding a rusted old ambulance

He returns because he is obsessed with trolling the discussion. As he declared on this topic just last week, " I can't stand you." So everything he writes has nothing to do with "Tiger Man" and everything to do with me. It's kind of creepy.

And, of course, he's wrong twice over in the quoted statement.

The tapes from Sun were handed over in December 1955, if not sooner.

And as noted on previous pages of this topic, a finished master of "I'm Left, You're Right, My Baby's Gone" was not known about until super-fan Cees Klop, "The Boppin' Dutchman," found an acetate of it in Memphis in 1970.

Sadly, he passed away in August 2017. Read more about Cees here:

https://www.discogs.com/artist/1524404-Cees-Klop
http://www.rockabillyhall.com/ThatsNewToMe03.html
https://www.facebook.com/RockabillyDJ/posts/a-tribute-to-cees-klop-of-collector-records

Funny how you refrain from mentioning the rest of my post from last week.

Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Cees Klop's book, and actually start looking for the acetate, rather than spend ten years talking about it.

[pmp]

Billboard's major article on Elvis' signing to RCA in 1955 appeared in their December 3rd issue.









Billboard - December 3, 1955



Among the many interesting things in it is this paragraph:

The Victor deal involved a reported pay-off of $40.000 to Sun Records for Presley's contract. The latter still had a year to run. In addition, Victor acquired rights to all of the singer's Sun pressings, including five unreleased waxings as well. Presley's most recent Sun disk, "I Forgot to Remember to Forget," No. 4 on the c.&w. retail best-seller chart this week, will be brought out shortly under the Victor label.

Wow. Of the "five unreleased waxings" these specific titles come to mind, as RCA did indeed issue them:


I Love You Because
Blue Moon
Tomorrow Night
I'll Never Let You Go
Just Because
Tryin' to Get to You


But that's six "unreleased waxings."

Is it possible that RCA really didn't have a handle on what they'd received from Sam Phillips?

Hardly. All six songs were noted in Steve Sholes listings of what was on the tapes (+ I Got a Woman, + the early Trying to Get to You, + Satisfied). So quite clearly RCA had a "handle" on what they had received. All of those were listed by Sholes, and yet Tiger Man...is not. Just because something is printed in the press doesn't mean that it's true...

[BobDylan]

Elvis also said from the stage several times that he was going to sing a song by BJ Thomas (I Can't Help Believin') that he didn't like.

So are we to believe that he continued to sing a song that he didn't like? It sounded to me like he said it in a dead serious manner.

Awfully strange that he would continue to sing a song that he didn't like.

[Domino]

Elvis also said from the stage several times that he was going to sing a song by BJ Thomas (I Can't Help Believin') that he didn't like.

So are we to believe that he continued to sing a song that he didn't like? It sounded to me like he said it in a dead serious manner.

Awfully strange that he would continue to sing a song that he didn't like.

You call that dead serious ?
Even the audience knew he was joking because they laughed.
How many laughs do you think he was getting from his dead serious Tigerman joke ? Answer would be none.

[BobDylan]

Elvis also said from the stage several times that he was going to sing a song by BJ Thomas (I Can't Help Believin') that he didn't like.

So are we to believe that he continued to sing a song that he didn't like? It sounded to me like he said it in a dead serious manner.

Awfully strange that he would continue to sing a song that he didn't like.

You call that dead serious ?
Even the audience knew he was joking because they laughed.
How many laughs do you think he was getting from his dead serious Tigerman joke ? Answer would be none.

You're using one example. There are more when he used a far more serious tone.

[Domino]

Elvis also said from the stage several times that he was going to sing a song by BJ Thomas (I Can't Help Believin') that he didn't like.

So are we to believe that he continued to sing a song that he didn't like? It sounded to me like he said it in a dead serious manner.

Awfully strange that he would continue to sing a song that he didn't like.

You call that dead serious ?
Even the audience knew he was joking because they laughed.
How many laughs do you think he was getting from his dead serious Tigerman joke ? Answer would be none.

You're using one example. There are more when he used a far more serious tone.

This is getting ridiculously hilarious .
Funny how now producing one example isn't proof enough but that Tigerman file that's been reposted a couple dozen times is looked at by some as the ultimate proof.
So then we produce multiple examples spanning 4 years and that isn't proof enough.
Like I said ridiculously hilarious .

[Domino]

There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

Kind of like there has not been another single instance of Elvis seriously and repeatedly saying he recorded a song that we have no evidence of him recording .

[pmp]

There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

Kind of like there has not been another single instance of Elvis seriously and repeatedly saying he recorded a song that we have no evidence of him recording .

That proves nothing.

[Ciscoking]

!	Message from: Moderator3
	I wasn't Joking: https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1835939#p1835939

[pmp]

There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

Kind of like there has not been another single instance of Elvis seriously and repeatedly saying he recorded a song that we have no evidence of him recording .

We have evidence of Elvis telling every audience for a month that his first single was a demo recorded in 1953, that Sam Philips issued in 1954 and was a local hit. Told repeatedly. Told seriously. but not a true story.

[Domino]

There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

Kind of like there has not been another single instance of Elvis seriously and repeatedly saying he recorded a song that we have no evidence of him recording .

We have evidence of Elvis telling every audience for a month that his first single was a demo recorded in 1953, that Sam Philips issued in 1954 and was a local hit. Told repeatedly. Told seriously. but not a true story.

Difference is he did actually record it.The facts around it matters not a bit.I don't care if he couldn't remember what he had for breakfast by the end of the day.Careerwise he was spot on with every other song.Makes it very unlikely he would be consistently wrong about just one song in 23 years.I wouldn't be putting any money on that bet.

And another thing.
You say that you're not saying he couldn't have tried the song and even could've been put on tape.
So how does calling Elvis a liar fit in with that ?
He either tried the song or he's lying.
It can't be both.
If you say he could've recorded it then anything is possible including he is actually remembering a little know event in his life.

[pmp]

There has not been a single instance of a finished Sun master turning up that wasn't known about when the tapes were handed over in 1956.

Kind of like there has not been another single instance of Elvis seriously and repeatedly saying he recorded a song that we have no evidence of him recording .

We have evidence of Elvis telling every audience for a month that his first single was a demo recorded in 1953, that Sam Philips issued in 1954 and was a local hit. Told repeatedly. Told seriously. but not a true story.

Difference is he did actually record it.The facts around it matters not a bit.I don't care if he couldn't remember what he had for breakfast by the end of the day.Careerwise he was spot on with every other song.Makes it very unlikely he would be consistently wrong about just one song in 23 years.I wouldn't be putting any money on that bet.

And another thing.
You say that you're not saying he couldn't have tried the song and even could've been put on tape.
So how does calling Elvis a liar fit in with that ?
He either tried the song or he's lying.
It can't be both.
If you say he could've recorded it then anything is possible including he is actually remembering a little know event in his life.

You seem to be confused with Elvis "trying a song" and saying it was his "second record." If he did "try the song" and then said it was his "second record," he is LYING. He would NOT have been telling the truth, because it wasn't his second record!

He didn't say "here's a song I tried out at Sun." He says it was his "second record." Not only that, Doc has made 100+ pages not out of him "trying the song" but completing a master, acetates being pressed, and DJs getting copies!

You do realise there is a vast difference between the two scenarios, right?

And now you have the balls to say that "facts don't matter!" So, in other words, he COULD have just tried the song at Sun, but he could have been making it up completely when he said it was his "second record" and therefore got you in a hot sweat over nothing for the ten years that this fiasco has been continuing.

And he wasn't "spot on" with every other song.
He was wrong about My Happiness being his first record.
He was wrong about Trying to Get to You being recorded in 1959.
He was wrong about The Wonder of You being a single in 1972.
He was wrong about the story of Softly As I Leave You.
And we know that he was WRONG about Tiger Man being his second record.

We ALL KNOW perfectly well that Tiger Man was not his second record. It was never released as his second record. And Elvis doesn't say "this was going to be my second record but it was pulled at the last minute." He says this was "my second record."

So, unless people are living in some alternate universe where Good Rockin' Tonight wasn't released, Tiger Man never was, and never will be, his second record. But if you are so certain, provide me one source from a legitimate author/researcher than says that Tiger Man was his second record. Find me a review of it. Find it listed in the pages of Billboard or Cashbox. Just one of those things. You already KNOW that you won't find those things, because it didn't happen.

Meanwhile, I have said from the very beginning that no-one here is saying he didn't try it out at Sun at some point. It's quite likely that he did. But, for the hundredth time, that is NOT the argument made in the opening post, and Doc has never conceded that he over-reached by saying it MUST have had acetates pressed and DJs must have been given copies. And even if acetates WERE made, Elvis was STILL lying when he said it was his second record! It wasn't.

And you know what's funny? What's funny is that you and others are saying we wouldn't be taking this stance if it wasn't the Doc's thread.
Well, let's turn that on its head.
If I had come up with the opening post of this thread saying Elvis's second record was Tiger Man, and it was the Doc listing every reason why I was totally wrong, then you would be siding with him again, but this time siding with him saying the idea of it being Elvis's second record was utterly stupid. And don't tell me you wouldn't, because it's quite clear the opposite is true.

Have you REALLY taken the time to look at the miniscule evidence when deciding whether you agree with DJC's theory? Have you wondered what you would think of such an idea if ANYBODY else had posted it based on the same evidence.

[elvis-fan]

The tiger man thing aside, I find it odd how so many "elvis-fans" don't "get" Elvis' sense of humor... I realize it's the society we live in today... people need everything explained to them otherwise they're offended or misunderstand... sad