American Sound '69 Postscript --> What Could Have Been

[drjohncarpenter]

No, that's not it, I believe. To blame Parker for everything we don't understand, is intellectual laziness.

Publishing politics was the reason Elvis didn't go back to American. After the early years publishing politics plagued Elvis's career. All of that has been well documented. Colonel Parker does deserve blame for that.

Disputes over publishing were the foundation from which Presley management schemed to separate the singer from American Sound.

Recall that after "Suspicious Minds" was in the can RCA and Presley publishers wanted to immediately make a deal to get a piece of the Mark James song. But Press Music Co. was owned by Chips Moman, and he'd secured the publishing months before, when the songwriter cut his own version on the Scepter label.

And so Chips told them no.

When they pushed back, he said they could call the January 1969 dates a demo session for Elvis, and get the fu'ck out. They relented, and most the of RCA brass returned to Nashville.

But they were not happy, and management noticed as well. Like with the NBC-TV special a year before, Parker thought Chips and Elvis, left on their own, would fail. They did not, the singles and subsequent LP doing incredibly well at retail and on radio, and the critics went bananas.

So management, with help of certain Presley insiders and RCA employees, worked to undermine the Moman-Presley relationship. That power structure could not be tolerated. They succeeded, but in the end they hurt the artist and his career.

It would never be the same after American Sound.

[brian]

I'm wondering now which of the following songs were published by Elvis' company?
The Wonder of You
You Don't Have to Say You Love Me
Burning Love
Steamroller Blues
Fool
I've Got a Thing About You Baby
Help Me
Promised Land
It's Midnight
My Boy
For the Heart
Hurt
Moody Blue
Way Down

Fool was published by Gladys music. Elvis got It's Midnight from Lamar Fike through Hill & Range. All the other songs were outside songs that weren't published by Elvis's publishing companies. Once in a while Felton Jarvis or Marty Lacker would bring Elvis an outside song that they couldn't get the publishing on. Burning love, I've got a thing about you baby, For the Heart and Way Down were published by Combine music and those songs were brought to him by Felton Jarvis. Moody Blue was published by Screen Gems and was brought to Elvis by Marty Lacker. Occasionally someone that knew Elvis would bring him an outside song that they didn't have the publishing on and if he liked the song he'd record them. Marty Lacker and Felton Jarvis weren't supposed to do that but they did sometimes. Steamroller blues was also an outside song that was brought to Elvis by Marty Lacker.

[Mike C]

Did Elvis not want to work with Chips Moman again or was it his management? On the session tapes, their relationship seems to be at least cordial and at times very close. There is no obvious friction - even when Chips stops a take or suggests changes.

After the sessions were over Colonel Parker told Elvis that Chips Moman had tried to record ''In the ghetto'' with another artist. The story told by Parker was a lie but Elvis believed what Colonel Parker said about Chips and made him not want to work with him again. You see Mac Davis had given Elvis the song In the ghetto and it was Elvis that brought the song to the session. So Elvis didn't like the idea that Chips was wanting to record ''In the ghetto'' with another artist instead of him. That's why it made Elvis upset and not want to work with him again. Colonel Parker didn't like the fact that he didn't have control of the session and he didn't like the fact that Chips Moman didn't give up a piece of the publishing on Suspicious minds. That's why Colonel Parker didn't want Elvis to record with Chips Moman again and that's why he made up the story. Felton Jarvis was originally supposed to produce the 1969 sessions in Nashville and was upset and disappointed when Elvis chose to record with Chips Moman instead. Felton Jarvis wanted to be Elvis's record producer and he wanted to recognized for that. So he backed up Colonel Parker's story about Chips trying to steal ''In the ghetto'' from Elvis. That's why Elvis never went back to American.

I thought Chips is the one who told Elvis that he would cut the song with another artist -- ex-football player Rosey Grier -- when Elvis' management and some of the Memphis Mafia balked at the idea of him recording "In the Ghetto." It was this statement that finally convinced Elvis not to pass up the tune.

Ironically, Elvis' good friend, Sammy Davis, Jr., covered the song in 1970 with a totally different arrangement. However, in my opinion, it pales comparison to the gentle approach Chips and Elvis took with the tune.

[brian]

I thought Chips is the one who told Elvis that he would cut the song with another artist -- ex-football player Rosey Grier -- when Elvis' management and some of the Memphis Mafia balked at the idea of him recording "In the Ghetto." It was this statement that finally convinced Elvis not to pass up the tune.

That story is out there. That's unrelated to Colonel Parker's story about Chips Moman. That's a different situation.

[eligain]

Did Elvis not want to work with Chips Moman again or was it his management? On the session tapes, their relationship seems to be at least cordial and at times very close. There is no obvious friction - even when Chips stops a take or suggests changes.

After the sessions were over Colonel Parker told Elvis that Chips Moman had tried to record ''In the ghetto'' with another artist. The story told by Parker was a lie but Elvis believed what Colonel Parker said about Chips and made him not want to work with him again. You see Mac Davis had given Elvis the song In the ghetto and it was Elvis that brought the song to the session. So Elvis didn't like the idea that Chips was wanting to record ''In the ghetto'' with another artist instead of him. That's why it made Elvis upset and not want to work with him again. Colonel Parker didn't like the fact that he didn't have control of the session and he didn't like the fact that Chips Moman didn't give up a piece of the publishing on Suspicious minds. That's why Colonel Parker didn't want Elvis to record with Chips Moman again and that's why he made up the story. Felton Jarvis was originally supposed to produce the 1969 sessions in Nashville and was upset and disappointed when Elvis chose to record with Chips Moman instead. Felton Jarvis wanted to be Elvis's record producer and he wanted to recognized for that. So he backed up Colonel Parker's story about Chips trying to steal ''In the ghetto'' from Elvis. That's why Elvis never went back to American.

I thought Chips is the one who told Elvis that he would cut the song with another artist -- ex-football player Rosey Grier -- when Elvis' management and some of the Memphis Mafia balked at the idea of him recording "In the Ghetto." It was this statement that finally convinced Elvis not to pass up the tune.

Ironically, Elvis' good friend, Sammy Davis, Jr., covered the song in 1970 with a totally different arrangement. However, in my opinion, it pales comparison to the gentle approach Chips and Elvis took with the tune.

I saw an interview somewhere online a while back by Davis where he said that Mac Davis offered him the song first in Lake Tahoe and he said he was too involved in "the movement" and didn't realize the value of it until Elvis cut it.

[drjohncarpenter]

I saw an interview somewhere online a while back by Davis where he said that Mac Davis offered him the song first in Lake Tahoe and he said he was too involved in "the movement" and didn't realize the value of it until Elvis cut it.

Not familiar with this tale. Sammy Davis Jr. did have a weekend booking at Harrah's Tahoe on December 20-21, 1968, but why would Mac Davis offer him the song when it was likely already slated for the upcoming Presley sessions in less than three weeks? It makes no sense at all.

[joeroberts]

I saw an interview somewhere online a while back by Davis where he said that Mac Davis offered him the song first in Lake Tahoe and he said he was too involved in "the movement" and didn't realize the value of it until Elvis cut it.

What makes you think it was already slated? There’s no evidence that it was. Weren’t the sessions at American booked at the last minute?


Not familiar with this tale. Sammy Davis Jr. did have a weekend booking at Harrah's Tahoe on December 20-21, 1968, but why would Mac Davis offer him the song when it was likely already slated for the upcoming Presley sessions in less than three weeks? It makes no sense at all.

What makes you think it was already slated? There’s no evidence that it was. Weren’t the sessions at American booked at the last minute?

[drjohncarpenter]

What makes you think it was already slated? There’s no evidence that it was. Weren’t the sessions at American booked at the last minute?

Elvis had a session date at RCA Nashville in January. Songs were slated, studio time and musicians booked, with less than three weeks to go.

Furthermore, the Billy Strange-Mac Davis partnership had already placed several songs with Presley, with increasing success:

A Little Less Conversation
Memories
Charro
Nothingville

Those are undeniable factors in suggesting the Sammy Davis Jr. story makes no sense.

[joeroberts]

Oh. Thank you so much. I didn’t realize how wrong I was. To my dark, small-town little mind it made more than NO sense. I would bring up some other undeniable things but I now realize how silly they would seem to you. Thank you for saving me the time.

[drjohncarpenter]

Oh. Thank you so much. I didn’t realize how wrong I was. To my dark, small-town little mind it made more than NO sense. I would bring up some other undeniable things but I now realize how silly they would seem to you. Thank you for saving me the time.

Also, Davis last reached the top 20 in early 1964. Presley would be there again soon with "If I Can Dream," and just a few weeks before blown away TV audiences with his #1 ratings hit, the dynamic special "Singer Presents Elvis."

Which artist would a young songwriter choose? Seems obvious.

[eligain]

I saw an interview somewhere online a while back by Davis where he said that Mac Davis offered him the song first in Lake Tahoe and he said he was too involved in "the movement" and didn't realize the value of it until Elvis cut it.

Not familiar with this tale. Sammy Davis Jr. did have a weekend booking at Harrah's Tahoe on December 20-21, 1968, but why would Mac Davis offer him the song when it was likely already slated for the upcoming Presley sessions in less than three weeks? It makes no sense at all.

Sammy quote is at 19:25

[drjohncarpenter]

Sammy quote is at 19:25

So songwriter Mac Davis never said anything about this, only Davis?

That's significant enough to lay this story to rest now.

[frus75]

I'm wondering now which of the following songs were published by Elvis' company?
The Wonder of You
You Don't Have to Say You Love Me
Burning Love
Steamroller Blues
Fool
I've Got a Thing About You Baby
Help Me
Promised Land
It's Midnight
My Boy
For the Heart
Hurt
Moody Blue
Way Down

Fool was published by Gladys music. Elvis got It's Midnight from Lamar Fike through Hill & Range. All the other songs were outside songs that weren't published by Elvis's publishing companies. Once in a while Felton Jarvis or Marty Lacker would bring Elvis an outside song that they couldn't get the publishing on. Burning love, I've got a thing about you baby, For the Heart and Way Down were published by Combine music and those songs were brought to him by Felton Jarvis. Moody Blue was published by Screen Gems and was brought to Elvis by Marty Lacker. Occasionally someone that knew Elvis would bring him an outside song that they didn't have the publishing on and if he liked the song he'd record them. Marty Lacker and Felton Jarvis weren't supposed to do that but they did sometimes. Steamroller blues was also an outside song that was brought to Elvis by Marty Lacker.

So there goes the idea that Elvis HAD to have the publishing on a song to record it.
There's the legend, and there's the truth. People don't like it when the truth contradicts the legend.

Ernst has written that, after July 1973, the publishing thing was dead, and songs came from everywhere.

[drjohncarpenter]

Back to the core topic, almost no one has commented on the songs Elvis might have tried during an encore session at American Sound.

They're all very good, it's funny no one has given them any space here.

Dan Penn "Nobody's Fool" (Happy Tiger 538, April 1970)






Box Tops "The Letter" (Mala 565, August 1967)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton (just 16 at the time!)






Box Tops "Soul Deep" (Mala 12,040, June 1969)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton






Wayne Carson "No Love At All" (Monument 1192, February 1970)

He would have sung the sh'it out of "No Love At All."

- Wayne Carson

[eligain]

Sammy quote is at 19:25

So songwriter Mac Davis never said anything about this, only Davis?

That's significant enough to lay this story to rest now.

According to record producer Jimmy Bowen in his book "Rough Mix", Mac Davis played him the song and he sent Mac to Lake Tahoe to pitch it to Sammy.

Screen Shot 2022-09-26 at 1.32.02 AM.png

Screen Shot 2022-09-26 at 1.34.09 AM.png

[brian]

So there goes the idea that Elvis HAD to have the publishing on a song to record it.
There's the legend, and there's the truth. People don't like it when the truth contradicts the legend.

Elvis would occasionally record songs that they didn't have the publishing on but 90% of the songs that were brought to his sessions came from Freddy Bienstock. Before the sessions songs were sent to Freddy Bienstock and then he would pre screen the songs and only pick the ones that they had the publishing on. Freddy would then bring those demos to the sessions and then Elvis would pick the songs he liked from what he was being given. That hurt Elvis's recording career tremendously that's not a myth. As evidence you can see that after the Memphis sessions Elvis's singles were pretty poor in 1970-1971 and that's because of the publishing policy. The material that Freddy brought to Elvis in July of 1973 was pretty poor as well. All because of the publishing policy and the restrictions it placed on getting material.

[drjohncarpenter]

So songwriter Mac Davis never said anything about this, only Davis?

That's significant enough to lay this story to rest now.

According to record producer Jimmy Bowen in his book "Rough Mix", Mac Davis played him the song and he sent Mac to Lake Tahoe to pitch it to Sammy.

Bowen_01.png

Bowen_02.png

For the last time, this isn't coming from Mac Davis.

But let's take a closer look, since you keep pushing this.

The book excerpt is a pile of racially-tinged garbage from Jimmy Bowen.

So the dressing room meeting between Billy Strange, Mac, guitar in hand, and Sammy was filled with nothing but Black folks? And it was a tough situation?

(they) were the only white men in Sammy's dressing-room entourage, which included Jesse Jackson and some Black Power cronies. Mac found it uncomfortably tense.

I knew the feeling. At a meeting in Chicago once, Sammy . . . eagerly tried introducing me around to the "brothers," but the first two didn't even look at me or extend their hands. I got the hell outta there . . .

If Mac was a little uneasy as he got out his acoustic guitar to sing "In The Ghetto," I understood.

But when he was finished, the brothers were in tears.

Casual racism aside, the suggestion that Rev. Jesse Jackson of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference would be hanging out backstage at Harrah's Lake Tahoe is ludicrous. Then Bowen claims Jackson stayed around the entire weekend.

You'd think someone in the local or national press might notice that?

And then, Bowen claims Jackson popped by Davis' hotel room the next morning, to ask to hear "In The Ghetto" again?

Nonsense.

Unsurprisingly, what the press did note at the time was how Jackson was in Chicago on the weekend of December 21-22, 1968, including a public statement about black priests having limited options to leave the Catholic diocese, and a Sunday TV appearance on "Blacks Only."


Pittsburgh Courier - Saturday, December 21, 1968
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/38383664/

Racine Journal Times - Sunday, December 22, 1968
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/342568990/


What else? The idea that Jackson attended the "In The Ghetto" session Bowen produced also stretches reality. It certainly didn't happen after Lake Tahoe in December 1968.

Among other things, a comprehensive Davis sessionography shows NO studio work from December 1968 until March 1969, well after Elvis cut "In The Ghetto."

Bowen was not involved in that March 1969 session. His first production work with Davis that year was in October, and the Davis cover of "In The Ghetto" was produced in November.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lindenbrae/sdj/sessions.html


Doing the research helps to dispel the fantasy.

Let's leave this alone now.

[brian]

Ernst has written that, after July 1973, the publishing thing was dead, and songs came from everywhere.

It wasn't dead.

[eligain]

So songwriter Mac Davis never said anything about this, only Davis?

That's significant enough to lay this story to rest now.

According to record producer Jimmy Bowen in his book "Rough Mix", Mac Davis played him the song and he sent Mac to Lake Tahoe to pitch it to Sammy.

For the last time, this isn't coming from Mac Davis.

But let's take a closer look, since you keep pushing this.

The book excerpt is a pile of racially-tinged garbage from Jimmy Bowen.

So the dressing room meeting between Billy Strange, Mac, guitar in hand, and Sammy was filled with nothing but Black folks? And it was a tough situation?

(they) were the only white men in Sammy's dressing-room entourage, which included Jesse Jackson and some Black Power cronies. Mac found it uncomfortably tense.

I knew the feeling. At a meeting in Chicago once, Sammy . . . eagerly tried introducing me around to the "brothers," but the first two didn't even look at me or extend their hands. I got the hell outta there . . .

If Mac was a little uneasy as he got out his acoustic guitar to sing "In The Ghetto," I understood.

But when he was finished, the brothers were in tears.

Casual racism aside, the suggestion that Rev. Jesse Jackson of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference would be hanging out backstage at Harrah's Lake Tahoe is ludicrous. Then Bowen claims Jackson stayed around the entire weekend.

You'd think someone in the local or national press might notice that?

And then, Bowen claims Jackson popped by Davis' hotel room the next morning, to ask to hear "In The Ghetto" again?

Nonsense.

Unsurprisingly, what the press did note at the time was how Jackson was in Chicago on the weekend of December 21-22, 1968, including a public statement about black priests having limited options to leave the Catholic diocese, and a Sunday TV appearance on "Blacks Only."


Pittsburgh Courier - Saturday, December 21, 1968
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/38383664/

Racine Journal Times - Sunday, December 22, 1968
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/342568990/


What else? The idea that Jackson attended the "In The Ghetto" session Bowen produced also stretches reality. It certainly didn't happen after Lake Tahoe in December 1968.

Among other things, a comprehensive Davis sessionography shows NO studio work from December 1968 until March 1969, well after Elvis cut "In The Ghetto."

Bowen was not involved in that March 1969 session. His first production work with Davis that year was in October, and the Davis cover of "In The Ghetto" was produced in November.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~lindenbrae/sdj/sessions.html


Doing the research helps to dispel the fantasy.

Let's leave this alone now.

Actually is not quite as simple as that.

In Linda Thompson's book she says that Elvis told her that Mac Davis offered "In The Ghetto" to Sammy Davis first.

I'd seen Sammy Davis in person 4 times. 3 times in Las Vegas and once in Lake Tahoe. 2 of those times he sang "In The Ghetto" and told the story of how the song was offered to him first but felt that Elvis not only nailed it but was the only singer who could have done the song to it's full potential. He sang the song as part of a tribute to Elvis.

When we went to Las Vegas in the summer of 78, both Mac Davis and Sammy Davis Jr. were playing the strip at the same time. We went to see Mac Davis at the MGM Grand. The next night we saw Sammy at Caesar's palace and Mac Davis was in the audience for Sammy's show. When Sammy introduced Mac he told the story of how he got offered "Ghetto" first and Mac nodded and said "That's right." and then Sammy went on to sing the song in honor of both Elvis and Mac. Now I don't know if Sammy was telling the truth and if he wasn't, I doubt Mac would have corrected him in front of Sammy's audience but he did nod and say "That's right" to Sammy's claim.

Since both Elvis and Mac and Sammy are now dead, I guess we will never know for sure what the truth is, but I will take the word of legendary record producer Jimmy Bowen, Legendary artist Sammy Davis Jr. and Linda Thomson over a guy on a Elvis forum.

[drjohncarpenter]

Actually is not quite as simple as that.

In Linda Thompson's book she says that Elvis told her that Mac Davis offered "In The Ghetto" to Sammy Davis first.

Actually, it is.

AGAIN, we have nothing from Mac Davis on this point.

This is the fourth time you've turned off-topic to bring this up. I've responded every time, in great detail.

I'd appreciate it being left alone now. Or go start your own topic.

[Steve Morse]

Words you will NEVER hear a certain person say :

"Thank you. I stand corrected".

[eligain]

Actually is not quite as simple as that.

In Linda Thompson's book she says that Elvis told her that Mac Davis offered "In The Ghetto" to Sammy Davis first.

Actually, it is.

AGAIN, we have nothing from Mac Davis on this point.

This is the fourth time you've turned off-topic to bring this up. I've responded every time, in great detail.

I'd appreciate it being left alone now. Or go start your own topic.

I posted a response to Mike C, who posted Sammy Davis' cover of "In The Ghetto" so it was part of the then discussion of this thread and then I responded to your posts. So not off topic as the discussion was progressing.

It wasn't off topic like when you posted that Elvis worked with guitar player "Jerry Kennedy" when I posted about the death of Elvis' Denver police friend Captain Jerry Kennedy. That had nothing to do with that post and looked like an attempt to derail that thread.

[Mike C]

Back to the core topic, almost no one has commented on the songs Elvis might have tried during an encore session at American Sound.

They're all very good, it's funny no one has given them any space here.

Dan Penn "Nobody's Fool" (Happy Tiger 538, April 1970)






Box Tops "The Letter" (Mala 565, August 1967)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton (just 16 at the time!)






Box Tops "Soul Deep" (Mala 12,040, June 1969)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton






Wayne Carson "No Love At All" (Monument 1192, February 1970)

He would have sung the sh'it out of "No Love At All."

- Wayne Carson

Out of all these tunes, I think Elvis would have hit it out of the park with "Soul Deep". Great groove tune and perfect for his vocals at that time.

Gary Bonds released an excellent cover of the tune in 1982 on his "On The Line" LP which was produced by Bruce Springsteen and Steve Van Zandt.

[drjohncarpenter]

Anyone?

Back to the core topic, almost no one has commented on the songs Elvis might have tried during an encore session at American Sound.

They're all very good, it's funny no one has given them any space here.

Dan Penn "Nobody's Fool" (Happy Tiger 538, April 1970)






Box Tops "The Letter" (Mala 565, August 1967)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton (just 16 at the time!)






Box Tops "Soul Deep" (Mala 12,040, June 1969)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton






Wayne Carson "No Love At All" (Monument 1192, February 1970)

He would have sung the sh'it out of "No Love At All."

- Wayne Carson

[Mike C]

Anyone?

Back to the core topic, almost no one has commented on the songs Elvis might have tried during an encore session at American Sound.

They're all very good, it's funny no one has given them any space here.

Dan Penn "Nobody's Fool" (Happy Tiger 538, April 1970)






Box Tops "The Letter" (Mala 565, August 1967)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton (just 16 at the time!)






Box Tops "Soul Deep" (Mala 12,040, June 1969)
Lead vocal: Alex Chilton






Wayne Carson "No Love At All" (Monument 1192, February 1970)

He would have sung the sh'it out of "No Love At All."

- Wayne Carson

I just responded to your query a few hours ago. Did you not see it?