"If Dogs Have A Heaven, There's One Thing I Know ..."

[Steve Morse]

From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! . It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded!

Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.

That is correct.

[Spellbinder]

From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! . It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded!

Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.

Wasn't the alternate take included on the original UK Rock n Roll No. 2?

A common fallacy. No - the alternate take was maybe first detected in the UK but it was, as I stated above, found on copies of the US album imported into the UK by the UK Fan Club.

[When In Rome]

From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! . It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded!

Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.

Wasn't the alternate take included on the original UK Rock n Roll No. 2?

A common fallacy. No - the alternate take was maybe first detected in the UK but it was, as I stated above, found on copies of the US album imported into the UK by the UK Fan Club.

Hmmn, the Elvisrecords.com site mentions the UK version (as well as some pressings of the US version) as being believed to be the culprit for that alternate take
https://www.elvisrecords.com/lpm-1382-elvis/

Capture.PNG

and the recent 'Rebel With A Cause '56' bonus CD includes the alternate take also, therefore perpetuating that fallacy...

[Spellbinder]

From a collectable point of view, RCA mistakenly included an alternate take of "Old Shep" on some early pressings of the Elvis LPM-1382 lp! . It´s very much sought after by collectors, with an estimated value of $700!.

This alternative outtake was first identified on the Bootleg lp Eternal Elvis in 1978, more than 20 years after it was recorded!

Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.

Wasn't the alternate take included on the original UK Rock n Roll No. 2?

A common fallacy. No - the alternate take was maybe first detected in the UK but it was, as I stated above, found on copies of the US album imported into the UK by the UK Fan Club.

Hmmn, the Elvisrecords.com site mentions the UK version (as well as some pressings of the US version) as being believed to be the culprit for that alternate take
https://www.elvisrecords.com/lpm-1382-elvis/

Capture.PNG

and the recent 'Rebel With A Cause '56' bonus CD includes the alternate take also, therefore perpetuating that fallacy...

Yes - it is a pity that such a well respected site as Elvisrecords.com continues to have this mistake.

[colonel snow]

Copies with matrix numbers G2WP-7208-15S, G2WP-7208-17S, or G2WP-7208-19S stamped on Side 2

In the leadout groove you'll find besides the maxtrix number
17S = Indianapolis pressing;
15S & 19S = Rockaway pressing.

colonel snow

[cs2003]

"... Old Shep has a wonderful home."

Yes October 3, 1945 and that's where Elvis should have left it, however it would be wonderful if a recording of this 1945 performance was discovered.

Even with Elvis at the height of his 1950's powers he could do nothing to improve this DOG of a song, it's a struggle to listen to it all the way through. Elvis 1976 recording of Danny Boy, similarly maudlin is much more successful and satisfying, although it would be better it it had been recorded for his second 56' album instead of Old Shep.

[drjohncarpenter]

"Old Shep" is one of Elvis' most heartfelt, emotional vocals from the 1950's.

That's about as good a one-sentence summation as anyone will write about Elvis' stunning 1956 recording.

The original is just another song for me, but Elvis takes this to a completely different level.

This is one of the songs that truly shows Elvis abilities to convey emotion through song. You can feel the despair and sadness.
What happened to his creativity during the sixties?

He made good recordings all through his career, but the originality slowly faded away...

You are right on about how Elvis transformed the song in 1956. And it's why folks like John Denver found their lives changed after hearing his recording.

Maybe the originality faded through the years, but it never completely went away. At least I'd like to think so.

Digging around, I discovered that the Red Foley recording you posted from YouTube appears to be the fourth and final official variation of his "signature" song. It was made in March 1963, produced by Owen Bradley, and released on The Red Foley Story (Decca DXS-7177, June 1964).

So ... in total Foley taped five versions, the one in 1944 never issued to retail:



#1

..

Conqueror 8631
Cut 12-09-1935 in Chicago
Released circa January 1936
Red Foley (solo vocal and guitar)



#2

"Old Shep" Decca 5944 - sample

Decca 5944
Cut 04-1941 in Chicago
Released May 1941
Red Foley with Ozzie Westley (guitar), Clyde Moffett (bass), Harry Sims (fiddle), Augie Klein (accordion)



#3

Unissued commercially
Cut 1-18-1944 in Chicago for World Broadcasting radio syndication
Released June 2006 on Bear Family Box BCD 16759
Red Foley (vocal and guitar), unknown (guitar), Smoky Lohman (steel guitar), Duane Swalley (bass), Harry Sims (fiddle), Augie Klein (accordion)



#4

..

Decca 46052
Cut 7-31-1946 in New York
Released December 1947, reissued on 45 in mid-1950
Red Foley with Roy Ross and His Ramblers - Chet Atkins (guitar), Eddie McMullen (steel guitar), Lester Braun (bass), Phil Kraus (drums), Frank Froeba (piano), George Koch (fiddle), Irving Ross (accordion), Tony Colella (trumpet), unknown (backing vocal trio)



#5

..

Decca DXS-7177 [album track]
Cut 3-06-1963 in Nashville
Released June 1964
Red Foley with unknown musicians



Although Decca 5944 -- #2 -- was likely the version on the radio he learned to sing in grade school and at the talent contest in 1945, I'm certain that Decca 46052 -- #4 -- was the one Elvis was so moved by as a teen-ager, and informed his later RCA master.

It was available as a 78, and then a 45, during that period where he moved from middle school to high school, and from Tupelo to the big city.

[drjohncarpenter]

Not so. It had been spotted in the very early 60s by UK fans who had bought imported US copies of the album from the UK Fan Club. Just by chance some of these imported copies had the alternate take. I didn't have one (I couldn't afford to buy the album from the fan club) but a friend of mine (Brian Nelson) had one - so I guess I first heard the alternate take around 1965.

Wasn't the alternate take included on the original UK Rock n Roll No. 2?

A common fallacy. No - the alternate take was maybe first detected in the UK but it was, as I stated above, found on copies of the US album imported into the UK by the UK Fan Club.

Hmmn, the Elvisrecords.com site mentions the UK version (as well as some pressings of the US version) as being believed to be the culprit for that alternate take
https://www.elvisrecords.com/lpm-1382-elvis/




and the recent 'Rebel With A Cause '56' bonus CD includes the alternate take also, therefore perpetuating that fallacy...

Yes - it is a pity that such a well respected site as Elvisrecords.com continues to have this mistake.

I made a careful review of all the site footnotes ... and they actually agree with your explanation:

Copies with matrix numbers G2WP-7208-15S, G2WP-7208-17S, or G2WP-7208-19S stamped on Side 2 (Side 1 doesn't matter) are likely candidates to contain the alternate take of Old Shep which contain an added word in two different phrases. Words in upper case are added in the alternative take: "As the years fast did roll, Old Shep he grew old AND his eyes were fast growing dim." and "He came to my side and he looked up at me, and HE laid his old head on my knee."

This alternate take was identified in 1980 from the "Eternal Elvis" and "Rockin' Rebel Vol. 3" bootleg albums, which was believed to have been taken from the HMV album "Elvis Presley No. 2" from England. This is interesting because it took even longer, over 25 years from the first release of this album, to determine that this song variation existed on a U.S. release.

So Elvisrecords.com is simply conveying that bootleg publicity for the track back in 1980 claims the alternate is found on the U.K. version of the second LP. But their position is that this rare version likely originates with certain pressings of the U.S. release.

So Spellbinder's assessment is correct, and complements what is written on the website.

What is funny is that there are more than a few examples of 1950s alternates slipping out during that period, some by intent, and some by accident. How did they happen, we may never know.

But all of them are like hen's teeth, of course.

[DEH]

its not the only time Elvis mentioned Old Shep in concert. there were fan requests for it before and he says pretty much the same thing that he does in the 1977 concert. i think it was a 1971 show i was listening to where it came up. i never listen to 77 shows so it was not then.

[drjohncarpenter]

Fantastic post Doc as always ! Thank you very much. Old Shep is one of my favorites. The John Denver story is so moving. Great singer by the way.

Thank you. I had forgotten all about the John Denver story until I ran across it the other day. It inspired this topic.

[drjohncarpenter]

Nice topic. Old Shep is part of the Elvis folklore. It’s the first song - or one of the first - where Elvis as a kid learned how to use music to affect people’s emotions. I think author Elain Dundy referred to it as one of Elvis’s old standbys when he was asked by adults to sing.

And on the 1956 recording, he could have sung this song in an over the top way but he doesn’t. The restraint ends up adding to the emotional impact. And I think it fits nicely on the “Elvis” album.

Fantastic reply, thank you. Your observations about what the song meant in his career, and the way he approached the material in the studio, are terrific.

Interestingly, davide on another topic noted that Elvis was extremely light-hearted in-between takes. IIRC, these observations from the September 1956 session in West Hollywood were made by management secretary Trude Forsher, and memorialized in her book, The Love Me Tender Years Diary.

[mike edwards66]

However, I have never liked "I can do no more for him Jim" - it's a rather cringe-worthy bit of rhyming. If Elvis had made 'more' last over 2 beats, then he could have omitted 'Jim'.

"I can do no more for him, Jim" is my favourite line from Old Shep. And the kool thing is, we catch up with Jim six years later, when he pops in to just say hello.

..

On stage in Madison - Friday, June 24, 1977

That clip with, as elvisjock might say, its Zapruder-like quality, would have made a perfect and chilling way to open The Searcher. The later King harking back to his first performance, with a haunting "I cried so I scarcely could see" segue into a sepia rendition of the picture of the 10 year old, bespectacled Presley brat. Elvis at the end, Elvis at the beginning.

[stevelecher]

Always liked the song and loved Elvis' singing of it. I don't think it would work for today's younger people and they would think it's corny.

[drjohncarpenter]

Elvis sang ballads so plainly and so simply in the 50's, but so heartfelt, all of them without the least bit of bombast or oversinging. I'll take a ballad from the 50's over any from the 70's, dont need the over dramatic readings on those songs. This song I never really appreciated until the 80's, when I really stared to appreciate the difference in his voice thru the years. The 50's win out every time.

Some might argue, though, you're only in your early twenties once. The Elvis studio recordings of 1954-1958 have several commonalities, the one that comes to mind in general and in regard to "Old Shep," is Gladys Love Presley.

Who comforted him after his beloved dog Tex got put down? She did. Who was always there for him? She was. The emotional openness we hear in his ballads comes from a place of comfort, a place where he doesn't have to worry about expressing himself.

After the shock and tragedy of her death at 46 -- so young -- and as his career marched on through Germany and Hollywood incarceration in the 1960s, that yearning and warmth slowly faded away. He grew a hard shell that only certain producers were able to break through, like Chips Moman at American in 1969.

[Rockin_John]

Always liked the song and loved Elvis' singing of it. I don't think it would work for today's younger people and they would think it's corny.

It is a corny song, just like "Are You Lonesome Tonight". I can't imagine any other singer getting away with it. Elvis does.

[drjohncarpenter]

I am reading the Freedland book about Elvis . He interviews people from Tupleo to Memphis....schoolfriends and cousins and according to them Elvis was singing Old Shep all the time when he was young.
And the way they tell it is that he said he wanted to enter the contest above mentioned and they said, he could, as long as he DIDN'T sing Old Shep . They were fed up of hearing it. And what does he do.....he goes up and sings Old Shep and wins 5th prize which was $5 . Same one where he stands on a chair, no music and wearing glasses.

He looks so cute .

You must be referring to his Elvis Memories: The Real Presley: By Those Who Knew Him, published in June 2014.

Interesting tale, but I do wonder if those the author spoke with were reliable, as their claims contradict the known history. An article that appeared in the Guardian in December 2009 showed him falling for some historical cliches regarding Elvis, and not questioning some dubious statements, such as "the night" Presley died.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/dec/29/elvis-presley

[colonel snow]

Old shep - promo EP


colonel snow

[rjm]

I've never disliked the Elvis recording.

However, I have never liked "I can do no more for him Jim" - it's a rather cringe-worthy bit of rhyming. If Elvis had made 'more' last over 2 beats, then he could have omitted 'Jim'.

The full lyrics tell a slightly different story of Old Shep according to this Internet link https://genius.com/Red-foley-old-shep-lyrics

When I was a lad and Old Shep was a pup
O'er hills and meadows we'd stray
Just a boy and his dog, we both full of fun
We grew up together that way

I remember the time at the old swimmin' hole
When I would have drowned beyond doubt
Shep was right there, to the rescue he came
He jumped in and helped pull me out

So the years sped along and at last he grew old
His eyesight was fast growin' dim
Then one day, the doctor looked at me and said
"I can't do no more for him, Jim"

With a hand that was tremblin', I picked up my gun
I aimed it at Shep's faithful head
I just couldn't do it, I wanted to run
And I wished that they'd shoot me instead

I went to his side and I sat on the ground
He laid his head on my knee
I stroked the best pal that a man ever found
I cried, so I scarcely could see

Old Sheppie, he knew he was goin' to go
For he reached out and licked at my hand
He looked up at me, just as much as to say
"We're parting, but you understand"

Now Old Shep is gone where the good doggies go
And no more with Old Shep will I roam
But if dogs have a heaven, there's one thing I know
Old Shep has a wonderful home

'Stroked' became 'struck' in Elvis's slightly truncated version, in which the story doesn't make complete sense. But I guess many 'folk' songs emerged with varying lyrics in the days before printed or recorded versions became the norm.

I heard this rather early in my fandom, and even in reprocessed stereo, it was moving. And I never had a beloved old dog. (I had a poodle who was given away after a month because I got my first job.) Still, you feel what you don't feel from Foley.

The lyric change is significant, in my view, and I never thought "struck" was a mispronunciation. It was his way of inserting the actual horror of shooting a being whom he loved. He wanted you to see, perhaps, what he was prevented from seeing as a child. That's what I thought, especially when learning about Tex later on. I have become more firm in my belief that he meant "struck" so you could feel his youthful horror. (Yes, I have a memory of a child, not me but a 10 year old child, on learning of a beloved family dog having been put down. She busted out sobbing and ran out of the room. I was dispatched to comfort her.) To a young kid, it must have just horrifying He said "they had to kill him." People usually say "put down." But he said it straight up: "they had to kill him."

The song is more convincing due to the lyric changes. The dog also comes to him, as if betrayed.

Thanks Doc.

rjm

[colonel snow]

Old shep - 45 rpm promo


colonel snow

[mike edwards66]

'Stroked' became 'struck' in Elvis's slightly truncated version, in which the story doesn't make complete sense.

The lyric change is significant, in my view, and I never thought "struck" was a mispronunciation. It was his way of inserting the actual horror of shooting a being whom he loved.

No! Dear barking up the wrong tree God, No!

If we add more words, it makes it a little easier to understand.

Elvis was NOT saying:

He came to my side and he looked up at me
And laid his old head on my knee
I had struck down the best friend that a man ever had
I cried so I scarcely could see

Elvis WAS saying:

He came to my side and he looked up at me
And laid his old head on my knee
I had struck up with the best friend that a man ever had
I cried so I scarcely could see


In other words, Jim had found the best friend that a man ever had.

[elvis-fan]

Elvis was NOT saying:

He came to my side and he looked up at me
And laid his old head on my knee
I had struck down the best friend that a man ever had
I cried so I scarcely could see

Mike, I thought this is exactly what Elvis was saying... as in he killed his best friend.

[rickeap]

I find Old Shep dated and corny but I think I'd cry if I listened tonight as my little dog has had another relapse of her meningitis. It's really tough going.

[Bill B]

I find Old Shep dated and corny but I think I'd cry if I listened tonight as my little dog has had another relapse of her meningitis. It's really tough going.

I feel the same, The song is dreadful and boring but as a lifelong dog lover and owner and someone that donate's regular to Humane Society, I get what your saying..

[mike edwards66]

Elvis was NOT saying:

He came to my side and he looked up at me
And laid his old head on my knee
I had struck down the best friend that a man ever had
I cried so I scarcely could see

Mike, I thought this is exactly what Elvis was saying... as in he killed his best friend.

No. He alluded to it in the next verse - Old Shep, he has gone where the good doggies go, clearly somebody had dispatched the manky mutt.

But, the verse in question, Old Shep had come to Jim's side and laid his old head on his knee. If he'd done the deed then, Jim would have shot himself in the leg.

Elvis was saying:

He came to my side and he looked up at me
And laid his old head on my knee
I had struck up with the best friend that a man ever had
I cried so I scarcely could see


In other words, Jim had found the best friend that a man ever had.

[drjohncarpenter]

Some remarks about the changes Elvis made to the original lyrics as stated in this book:

Handbook of Psychobiography - Cover.png

From Chapter 10 "Twelve Ways To Say 'Lonesome': Assessing Error And Control In The Music Of Elvis Presley" by Alan A. Elms and Bruce Heller.

Handbook of Psychobiography - William Todd Schultz - 01 Old Shep.png

Handbook of Psychobiography - William Todd Schultz - 02 Old Shep.png

Source: https://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Psychobiography-William-Todd-Schultz/dp/0195168275

Thanks for that share. Schultz's comments on Elvis' recording of "Old Shep" are interesting, although they reek of intellectual over-analysis. Whatever alterations the singer made were developed by instinct and the years he'd spent singing it to family, friends and classmates.

His conclusions are kind of odd. I'm not an advocate of psychobiographies, and don't hear a connection to Gladys in the 1956 recording. And his chronology of the Red Foley release is also off by four years, as my analysis above clearly proves.

This book is but one of many he has published:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Todd_Schultz