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Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:20 pm

ML4EP wrote:
brian wrote:
ML4EP wrote:. She also stated at that time he was viewed as very passe' as a performer (I guess she meant along the lines of Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin) but that when she saw his show he "really moved her emotionally."


She meant that when she started getting into music in her teens like a lot of people do The Beatles and The Rolling Stones were considered hip and cool and she was into that kinda music.

During that time as you know Elvis was making family musicals that had very bad music in them so he was considered unhip and uncool by the teenagers of the mid to late 60s.

Even when Elvis made a comeback in the late 60s he really wasn't making rock music that teenagers or young adults liked.

That's what Cybill Shepherd meant when she said he had become passe.


I saw the interview she said that in (Good Morning America or Today Show) and she was inferring at that moment in time - Aug 1972, he was considered passe'...never mind that at that time it was considered quite the status symbol to have seen Elvis in Las Vegas, plus the career peak he was riding. It reminds me of some of the naive/revisionist history comments my 14 year old daughter makes.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago when celebrities were making snide comments about meeting Elvis, "yeah...I met him, he was fat, seemed out of it, etc, etc." Now you see celebrities saying, "well when I met him he was still "ELVIS !", such as Alice Cooper and Steve Martin.


That is different to what Cybill was saying.

Elvis was thought to be passe by a lot of people in Cybill Shepherd's age group because they didn't really grow up with his music.

He was their older brothers and sisters music while they liked the Rolling Stones.

That Elvis could sell out shows, Burning love, EOT winning the Golden Globe etc. doesn't mean that he wasn't considered passe by them.

You are taking her comments the wrong way.

She wasn't being negative or putting down Elvis.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:23 pm

Never said she was ugly or gross...overrated.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:34 pm

Image

Well, I'm sticking with my original statement.

She's gross.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:49 pm

jparsons1969 wrote:Never said she was ugly or gross...overrated.


I found her to be attractive from the Last Picture Show all the way to her Moonlighting days but i'd put her at the bottom of the list of the women Elvis dated.

I don't know if i'd say she was overrated because i've never heard anyone say Cybill Shepherd was one of the most gorgeous women of all time.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:07 pm

Cybil exaggerates a lot when it comes to Elvis. For one thing, she did not date Elvis in August of 1972. It was either pre-Linda, like in 1970 or '71 or post 1972. Elvis was still known as a rock music star in 1972. After that he watered down his show to a more ballad-filled event. So the "passe" comment would refer to post Aloha period. Besides, Elvis was strictly with Linda Thompson from July '72 up to '73. and didn't date anyone else. Linda met Elvis in July 1972 and moved into Graceland a couple weeks later. I've heard Linda say that he was loyal to her for about a year and then began to see other women and she began to see other men. But they stayed together on and off up to November 1976 when they ended their relationship for good. I still think they would have reconciled had Elvis lived.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:14 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:Cybil exaggerates a lot when it comes to Elvis. For one thing, she did not date Elvis in August of 1972. It was either pre-Linda, like in 1970 or '71 or post 1972. Elvis was still known as a rock music star in 1972. After that he watered down his show to a more ballad-filled event. So the "passe" comment would refer to post Aloha period.


I think it was after Priscilla left in February but before he started seeing Linda in 1972.

Remember Elvis met Linda in July of 72 but she went on vacation with her family to Alabama right after that so Cybill could have still been seeing him in August.

I don't know how many times i have to explain her passe comment but it doesn't refer to Elvis post Aloha!

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:26 pm

jparsons1969 wrote:Never really found her attractive, very overrated. Didn't care for her in Moonlighting either. If Elvis hit that, I just don't understand what he saw in her. But in the end sex is like pizza, even the worst pizza is still pretty darn good.


The best reading of the sex/pizza joke I've ever heard was: "Sex is like pizza; when it's good, it's great but when it's bad, it's not too bad!"

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:39 pm

ML4EP wrote:
brian wrote:
ML4EP wrote:. She also stated at that time he was viewed as very passe' as a performer (I guess she meant along the lines of Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin) but that when she saw his show he "really moved her emotionally."


She meant that when she started getting into music in her teens like a lot of people do The Beatles and The Rolling Stones were considered hip and cool and she was into that kinda music.

During that time as you know Elvis was making family musicals that had very bad music in them so he was considered unhip and uncool by the teenagers of the mid to late 60s.

Even when Elvis made a comeback in the late 60s he really wasn't making rock music that teenagers or young adults liked.

That's what Cybill Shepherd meant when she said he had become passe.


I saw the interview she said that in (Good Morning America or Today Show) and she was inferring at that moment in time - Aug 1972, he was considered passe'...never mind that at that time it was considered quite the status symbol to have seen Elvis in Las Vegas, plus the career peak he was riding. It reminds me of some of the naive/revisionist history comments my 14 year old daughter makes.

Remember, it wasn't that long ago when celebrities were making snide comments about meeting Elvis, "yeah...I met him, he was fat, seemed out of it, etc, etc." Now you see celebrities saying, "well when I met him he was still "ELVIS !", such as Alice Cooper and Steve Martin.


It depends on when they saw him. Alice Cooper and Steve Martin saw him when he still looked good and was still slim. When Elton John saw him (who said he looked like a walking corpse) he was fat and out of it. A lot of celebs did meet Elvis after his Vegas shows and I'm sure their opinion of him would be different depending on when they saw him. Say 1971 vs 1975/76.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:51 pm

brian wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Cybil exaggerates a lot when it comes to Elvis. For one thing, she did not date Elvis in August of 1972. It was either pre-Linda, like in 1970 or '71 or post 1972. Elvis was still known as a rock music star in 1972. After that he watered down his show to a more ballad-filled event. So the "passe" comment would refer to post Aloha period.


I think it was after Priscilla left in February but before he started seeing Linda in 1972.

Remember Elvis met Linda in July of 72 but she went on vacation with her family to Alabama right after that so Cybill could have still been seeing him in August.

I don't know how many times i have to explain her passe comment but it doesn't refer to Elvis post Aloha!


It doesn't matter if you're talking about Vegas 1969 or post Aloha, Elvis was considered passe by the vast majority of people under 30. The mere fact of him playing Vegas made him passe. No matter how big his comeback was, Elvis was still considered unhip by rock standards at the time.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:22 pm

Jokerlola wrote:
brian wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Cybil exaggerates a lot when it comes to Elvis. For one thing, she did not date Elvis in August of 1972. It was either pre-Linda, like in 1970 or '71 or post 1972. Elvis was still known as a rock music star in 1972. After that he watered down his show to a more ballad-filled event. So the "passe" comment would refer to post Aloha period.


I think it was after Priscilla left in February but before he started seeing Linda in 1972.

Remember Elvis met Linda in July of 72 but she went on vacation with her family to Alabama right after that so Cybill could have still been seeing him in August.

I don't know how many times i have to explain her passe comment but it doesn't refer to Elvis post Aloha!


It doesn't matter if you're talking about Vegas 1969 or post Aloha, Elvis was considered passe by the vast majority of people under 30. The mere fact of him playing Vegas made him passe. No matter how big his comeback was, Elvis was still considered unhip by rock standards at the time.


Yes.

Finally someone who understands.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:41 am

Jokerlola wrote:
brian wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Cybil exaggerates a lot when it comes to Elvis. For one thing, she did not date Elvis in August of 1972. It was either pre-Linda, like in 1970 or '71 or post 1972. Elvis was still known as a rock music star in 1972. After that he watered down his show to a more ballad-filled event. So the "passe" comment would refer to post Aloha period.


I think it was after Priscilla left in February but before he started seeing Linda in 1972.

Remember Elvis met Linda in July of 72 but she went on vacation with her family to Alabama right after that so Cybill could have still been seeing him in August.

I don't know how many times i have to explain her passe comment but it doesn't refer to Elvis post Aloha!


It doesn't matter if you're talking about Vegas 1969 or post Aloha, Elvis was considered passe by the vast majority of people under 30. The mere fact of him playing Vegas made him passe. No matter how big his comeback was, Elvis was still considered unhip by rock standards at the time.


What rock standards? Rock in general was very soft at the time, not many hard rocking performers out there except for the Stones, CCR, Doors, Grand Funk, some Doobie Bros, but there sure was a whole lotta If You're Going To Saaan Fraaaancisco, California Dreaming, Billy Don't Be a Hero, etc, etc. Probably why you see a sign for 70s nite at a club...all they play is disco. Sweet Home Alabama was recorded at the same time Elvis did Promised Land and I love them both...but which is meaner? The answer should be obvious, one has attitude, the other not as much. I'm 50 and I remember alot of the music on the radio at that time, not very impressive.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:54 am

jparsons1969 wrote:Never said she was ugly or gross...overrated.


From my part it was just meant as a little tease, nothing to be taken seriously.

Each his own BTW because I remember being in my teens when Moonlighting was shown and I was only watching because of Cybill. Teens... Hormones... :wink:

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:03 pm

Rob wrote:Image

Well, I'm sticking with my original statement.

She's gross.


Haha. Where did you pull that pic from?

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:01 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:Cybil exaggerates a lot when it comes to Elvis. For one thing, she did not date Elvis in August of 1972. It was either pre-Linda, like in 1970 or '71 or post 1972. Elvis was still known as a rock music star in 1972. After that he watered down his show to a more ballad-filled event. So the "passe" comment would refer to post Aloha period. Besides, Elvis was strictly with Linda Thompson from July '72 up to '73. and didn't date anyone else. Linda met Elvis in July 1972 and moved into Graceland a couple weeks later. I've heard Linda say that he was loyal to her for about a year and then began to see other women and she began to see other men. But they stayed together on and off up to November 1976 when they ended their relationship for good. I still think they would have reconciled had Elvis lived.


Elvis was not considered a 'rock star' at all by anyone I knew in 1972. A rock star was someone like David Bowie, Alice Cooper or Elton John at that time. Elvis was just another performer to most people under 25 in 1972.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:41 pm

Let's get something clear right now. If Elvis were seen as "just another entertainer or performer" or in the same group as Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin, then he would not have the following he had then and still has today. He would be no different than Sinatra or James Dean or Marilyn Monroe, if that were the case. He would not have been called "The King" then or now. Anyone claiming that Elvis was not cool or hip to the mass general public in the 70's are fooling themselves big time! Non cool entertainers don't set attendance records at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Non cool entertainers don't get labeled "passe" or draw in teenage audiences. From 1969 to 1977 Elvis' audiences were made up of all ages (mostly young females) and racial ethnicity. And that's saying something considering that he didn't have great radio play success during the 70's nor strong material to present to his audiences. People seem to think that Elvis' audiences were made up of a bunch of 50 something year old women. When in reality there was way more young women than elderly at his shows to the end. Just listen to the crowds reaction during his shows. Listen to the screams like he was a teen idol when he entered the stage in Indianapolis on June 26, 1977.

The fact is that Elvis WAS VERY RELEVANT in 1970's. Watch Elvis On Tour and you will see evidence of that.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:06 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:Let's get something clear right now. If Elvis were seen as "just another entertainer or performer" or in the same group as Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin, then he would not have the following he had then and still has today. He would be no different than Sinatra or James Dean or Marilyn Monroe, if that were the case. He would not have been called "The King" then or now. Anyone claiming that Elvis was not cool or hip to the mass general public in the 70's are fooling themselves big time! Non cool entertainers don't set attendance records at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Non cool entertainers don't get labeled "passe" or draw in teenage audiences. From 1969 to 1977 Elvis' audiences were made up of all ages (mostly young females) and racial ethnicity. And that's saying something considering that he didn't have great radio play success during the 70's nor strong material to present to his audiences. People seem to think that Elvis' audiences were made up of a bunch of 50 something year old women. When in reality there was way more young women than elderly at his shows to the end. Just listen to the crowds reaction during his shows. Listen to the screams like he was a teen idol when he entered the stage in Indianapolis on June 26, 1977.

The fact is that Elvis WAS VERY RELEVANT in 1970's. Watch Elvis On Tour and you will see evidence of that.


I guess the fact that in 1972 I was 21 and had numerous friends, male & female accounts for nothing? No one but me was into Elvis or thought of him as a 'rock star', or anything close to it. He was revered for what he did in the 50's basically with a few nice records in 1969. Most of my friends hated The Wonder Of You. Rock? No. I am sure it was that way in a lot of under 25 circles. If he was such a rock star, every record he released would have been top 10 as it was once. People screamed for the image in 1977, or the image he once represented. He was a very sad sight to behold, not to be screamed at. Musically, he didn't do too much after 1969 as far as young people were concerned. Burning Love was great but other 50's artists had success that year also as a whole 50's revival was taking place. it didn't last.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:20 pm

r&b wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Let's get something clear right now. If Elvis were seen as "just another entertainer or performer" or in the same group as Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin, then he would not have the following he had then and still has today. He would be no different than Sinatra or James Dean or Marilyn Monroe, if that were the case. He would not have been called "The King" then or now. Anyone claiming that Elvis was not cool or hip to the mass general public in the 70's are fooling themselves big time! Non cool entertainers don't set attendance records at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Non cool entertainers don't get labeled "passe" or draw in teenage audiences. From 1969 to 1977 Elvis' audiences were made up of all ages (mostly young females) and racial ethnicity. And that's saying something considering that he didn't have great radio play success during the 70's nor strong material to present to his audiences. People seem to think that Elvis' audiences were made up of a bunch of 50 something year old women. When in reality there was way more young women than elderly at his shows to the end. Just listen to the crowds reaction during his shows. Listen to the screams like he was a teen idol when he entered the stage in Indianapolis on June 26, 1977.

The fact is that Elvis WAS VERY RELEVANT in 1970's. Watch Elvis On Tour and you will see evidence of that.


I guess the fact that in 1972 I was 21 and had numerous friends, male & female accounts for nothing? No one but me was into Elvis or thought of him as a 'rock star', or anything close to it. He was revered for what he did in the 50's basically with a few nice records in 1969. Most of my friends hated The Wonder Of You. Rock? No. I am sure it was that way in a lot of under 25 circles. If he was such a rock star, every record he released would have been top 10 as it was once. People screamed for the image in 1977, or the image he once represented. He was a very sad sight to behold, not to be screamed at. Musically, he didn't do too much after 1969 as far as young people were concerned. Burning Love was great but other 50's artists had success that year also as a whole 50's revival was taking place. it didn't last.


You're basing your facts off of a certain few's personal likes, whereas I am basing my facts off of actual attendances to his concerts. If you were 21 then., you would be aware of the fact that Elvis' shows caused riots and stress on cities from crazy fans to circus like atmosphere. No other entertainer then or now has that type of appeal on a city and town. It's ridiculous for anyone to claim otherwise.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:27 pm

SuspiciousMind wrote:Let's get something clear right now. If Elvis were seen as "just another entertainer or performer" or in the same group as Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin, then he would not have the following he had then and still has today. He would be no different than Sinatra or James Dean or Marilyn Monroe, if that were the case. He would not have been called "The King" then or now. Anyone claiming that Elvis was not cool or hip to the mass general public in the 70's are fooling themselves big time! Non cool entertainers don't set attendance records at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Non cool entertainers don't get labeled "passe" or draw in teenage audiences.


Frank Sinatra also sold out arenas and places all over the world you can sell out places and not be relevant musically.

It doesn't mean Elvis didn't have some young fans he did but the majority of them didn't like his music.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:35 pm

brian wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Let's get something clear right now. If Elvis were seen as "just another entertainer or performer" or in the same group as Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin, then he would not have the following he had then and still has today. He would be no different than Sinatra or James Dean or Marilyn Monroe, if that were the case. He would not have been called "The King" then or now. Anyone claiming that Elvis was not cool or hip to the mass general public in the 70's are fooling themselves big time! Non cool entertainers don't set attendance records at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Non cool entertainers don't get labeled "passe" or draw in teenage audiences.


Frank Sinatra also sold out arenas and places all over the world you can sell out places and not be relevant musically.

It doesn't mean Elvis didn't have some young fans he did but the majority of them didn't like his music.


Yes that is all I was trying to say, and you said it perfectly. He wasn't relevant to most young people. They certainly were not buying his records the way they were the other artists I mentioned.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:48 pm

r&b wrote:
brian wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Let's get something clear right now. If Elvis were seen as "just another entertainer or performer" or in the same group as Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin, then he would not have the following he had then and still has today. He would be no different than Sinatra or James Dean or Marilyn Monroe, if that were the case. He would not have been called "The King" then or now. Anyone claiming that Elvis was not cool or hip to the mass general public in the 70's are fooling themselves big time! Non cool entertainers don't set attendance records at the world's most famous arena, Madison Square Garden. Non cool entertainers don't get labeled "passe" or draw in teenage audiences.


Frank Sinatra also sold out arenas and places all over the world you can sell out places and not be relevant musically.

It doesn't mean Elvis didn't have some young fans he did but the majority of them didn't like his music.


Yes that is all I was trying to say, and you said it perfectly. He wasn't relevant to most young people. They certainly were not buying his records the way they were the other artists I mentioned.
Maybe not in the hood, but he was in middle class America.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:59 pm

I was 10 in 1972 and that is when I became a life-long fan. From then until the day he died, I anxiously awaited every new album and hunted past albums that I'd missed. I was 15 years old in 1977 going to see Elvis Presley and buying his records.

I was so out of touch.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:04 pm

If Elvis was popular with teenagers in the 1970s his singles and albums would have done much better than they did.

Because teenagers drive the market and whoever is popular with them usually has a lot of hit records.

Elvis was 35 years old in 1970 and 37 years old in 1972 it's very common for teenagers not to be fans of people that age.

They listened to James Taylor or Three Dog night.

The teenage audience is very fickle every entertainer in the history of the music business has become passe with them at some point.

It's not a bad thing to say Elvis had become passe with them and Cybill Shepherd did not mean it as a put down but merely stating her personal feelings.

After Elvis came back from the army he decided to become an all around entertainer the last rock n' roll album that he probably recorded was Elvis is Back in 1960.

In the 1970s Elvis released only three rock singles ''Burning Love'', ''T-R-O-U-B-L-E and ''Promised land''.

Elvis rarely recorded rock music so he wasn't considered a rock star anymore but an all around entertainer.

rock music is the type of music that most teenagers and young adults like and Elvis didn't record much of it so what do you expect.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:06 pm

In the Cybil Sheperd/Elvis story I read several years ago she implied that he had a hangup about a certain sexual practice, but she helped him get over it. As to which sexual practice she helped him with, let's just say she got him to partake of, ahem, Sheperd's pie.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:08 pm

brian wrote:Elvis rarely recorded rock music so he wasn't considered a rock star anymore but an all around entertainer.

Personally, I'd much rather see an "all round entertainer." He definitely entertained approximately 19,000 Louisville fans in June 1974 and May 1977. Damn their age.

Not sure what this has to do with Cybil, though.

Re: when elvis dated Cybil Shepherd ?

Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:13 pm

Rob wrote:
brian wrote:Not sure what this has to do with Cybil, though.


It's because ML4Ep and Suspiciousminds started disputing what Cybill Shepherd said about Elvis being passe with people her age when she met him.

Her comment got the discussion going.