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Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:55 am

Found this 'new' release. Bootleggers bootlegging bootleggers?

The Wonderland import label announced the release of the five CD set 'Rumble In The Jungle' containing all the Jungle Room sessions material previously released by the Venus import label.

Image

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:16 am

WONDERLAND RECORDS is known to produce straight copies of other label's releases. I don't think, it causes any rumble, because the fans get the opportunity to buy the recordings in a single CD set for a reasonable price, and VENUS won't give a damn because they already sold their stuff.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:26 am

K.C. wrote:Found this 'new' release. Bootleggers bootlegging bootleggers?

The Wonderland import label announced the release of the five CD set 'Rumble In The Jungle' containing all the Jungle Room sessions material previously released by the Venus import label.

Image


That's one ugly cover.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:36 am

The Welz wrote:WONDERLAND RECORDS is known to produce straight copies of other label's releases. I don't think, it causes any rumble, because the fans get the opportunity to buy the recordings in a single CD set for a reasonable price, and VENUS won't give a damn because they already sold their stuff.


I'm not sure about that.
Venus probably pays thousands of USD to get these recordings and get them sound that good.
This automatically means that their CDs must be more expensive. Still, they sell at the regular price.
This means to me that they're not in to it for the money, but that they want to give us the best possible
for the best possible price. That's why I'll always support them.

Wonderland is just stealing and making 1 on 1 copies of existing CDs. They are the ones who make the money.
If I were Venus, I'd say "Kiss my @ss" and would not invest a lot of money and efforts to let Wonderland go home with the money.
This is not the first time they did that and they never even tried to make an appealing packaging.

Downloading and these guys will mark the end of new material being released on bootleg. Mark my words.
Venus should be precious to us, meaning this kind of sh*t should be ignored and banned.
Or do you want to go on living with poor Audience recordings or overpriced GRM re-releases?
I don't !!!

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:56 am

I don't know much about the production of import-releases, but I know a lot about finance stuff. So I am pretty sure that VENUS has calculated the price of their CDs in a way that all of their costs are covered and some money is earned. Everything else would be more than strange.

Besides that I believe that everybody, who releases import-CDs, knows that sooner or later their stuff will be copied by someone, who wants to make an even faster buck.

But of course you are right. The VENUS releases are pure quality and everyone, who wants to have high class products in his or her collection, should buy the VENUS stuff.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:14 am

The Welz wrote:I don't know much about the production of import-releases, but I know a lot about finance stuff. So I am pretty sure that VENUS has calculated the price of their CDs in a way that all of their costs are covered and some money is earned. Everything else would be more than strange.

Besides that I believe that everybody, who releases import-CDs, knows that sooner or later their stuff will be copied by someone, who wants to make an even faster buck.

But of course you are right. The VENUS releases are pure quality and everyone, who wants to have high class products in his or her collection, should buy the VENUS stuff.


You didn't understand what I was saying, I never said that Venus looses money on their releases.
At least I don't hope they do, but let me put it this way:

GRM releases "Sitting on Top of the World. Besides costs for printing and pressing, they have no other costs
then a guitar pick (50 cent) because the show was already released before.
Venus releases "Singer Presents Elvis". Besides the costs for pressing, they invest in printing a wonderfull 80+ page
hardcover book. They also manage to obtain unreleased, superb sounding recordings for this release.

Now guess what ....... the price I paid for these two releases was the same!!
Now, who's there for the fans and who's there for the money??

Next in line is Wonderland, who steals everything and doesn't even include a guitar pick.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:17 am

stan from tintane wrote:I've read some stuff in my time but all that is HILARIOUS :lol: They are both BOOTLEG labels and the only folks who have the right not to be happy about them is SONY.


It's NOT about Sony being happy or unhappy.
It's about the fans getting new and unrelease material.
I don't care about Sony, they want money and I want ELVIS !!!

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:26 am

TheCoolKing wrote:Now, who's there for the fans and who's there for the money?

Both are there for the money.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:37 am

The Welz wrote:
TheCoolKing wrote:Now, who's there for the fans and who's there for the money?

Both are there for the money.


I'd say not at all...

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:40 am

The Welz wrote:
TheCoolKing wrote:Now, who's there for the fans and who's there for the money?

Both are there for the money.


:smt102 :smt102
It's hard to make something clear if the other person is not listening.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:45 am

It's one for the money, two for the money, three for the money

The Elvis world: gypsys, tramps and thieves!

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:13 pm

Joern wrote:I'd say not at all...

You really think that there is some rich Elvis fan who just wants to make other fans of the King happy? :mrgreen:

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:16 pm

TheCoolKing wrote:It's hard to make something clear if the other person is not listening.

I know what you are talking about. But believe me, the release of good material won't end because even the producers of quality material earn money.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:20 pm

stan from tintane wrote:In that case, you should care about Sony because they do provide new and unrealeased material (officially) and at the end of the day NO ONE (and I mean NO ONE) is making a product just for the love of it and losing money.

Sure Sony would be THE address to go to for new, unreleased material. Sadly though, I think that bootleggers come/came up with
the most interesting material the last decennia. At least, they initiated a new officiel album with unreleased material many times.
We should also not forget that bootlegs were the reason for establishing FTD.


stan from tintane wrote:But I will give you the fact that SOME labels are fan based at least. :smt006

That's exactly what I meant to say. Thanks!

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:29 pm

The Welz wrote:
TheCoolKing wrote:It's hard to make something clear if the other person is not listening.

I know what you are talking about. But believe me, the release of good material won't end because even the producers of quality material earn money.


You said, you know a lot about finance stuff.

IF GRM would be able to buy unreleased material they would double the price of their CDs.
(for those who doubt that: they charged an additional 10€ for a "bonus" guitar pick, that should be for free)
If they do, downloading will increase, sales will drop - ergo - they will triple the price of the next release and
won't sell anything - ergo - there will never be a third release.
The reason: they are only in it for the money, they give a sh*t about the fans.

(FYI, Venus just released their 14th release)

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:02 pm

The Welz wrote:
Joern wrote:I'd say not at all...

You really think that there is some rich Elvis fan who just wants to make other fans of the King happy? :mrgreen:


Are you in the mood? :D I did say "not at all". Surely they must have their money for it. There's no Franz von Assisi in the Elvis World. I'm not that naive. :wink:

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:07 pm

TheCoolKing wrote:You said, you know a lot about finance stuff.

IF GRM would be able to buy unreleased material they would double the price of their CDs.
(for those who doubt that: they charged an additional 10€ for a "bonus" guitar pick, that should be for free)
If they do, downloading will increase, sales will drop - ergo - they will triple the price of the next release and
won't sell anything - ergo - there will never be a third release.
The reason: they are only in it for the money, they give a sh*t about the fans.


This way of calculation is called "bottom up". In the first step you calculate the costs of a project, add a certain percentage and end up with the price you have to ask for. The only problem is, that in most cases the customers don't give a damn about your costs. So if you don't produce high-end stuff for customers who don't care about the price, this procedure doesn't work.

So you have to go in the opposite direction and use the "top down" calculation. You evaluate what price your customer is willing to pay and adjust your costs in a way you can meet this market price. This method is called "target costing". And you can believe me, that this way of calculation even works for good and innovative products, even for import releases with new and expensive material. And you can believe me, toto, there surely is a lot of interesting stuff out there that is not released, because no producer could get the price from the customers it would take to earn the investment back.

Of course the easiest way to make money is to use a source that is free, invest some bucks in the packaging and release the product. But I won't say that GRM doesn't care at all, their packaging is always great and in a lot of cases their releases sound better than the original ones. I know, that they just use the old CD (in most cases issued back in the 1990s) and beef them up with today's technology. But there's nothing wrong with it. If the new release looks and sounds better than the old one, I can check, if I am willing to invest a certain amount in this improvement.

To be honest, I don't care too much about the intentions of people. It's enough for me, if the result of their deeds is a good one.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:22 pm

I know, that they just use the old CD (in most cases issued back in the 1990s) and beef them up with today's technology. But there's nothing wrong with it. If the new release looks and sounds better than the old one, I can check, if I am willing to invest a certain amount in this improvement.


There was a much better sounding generation tape from the "At Full Blast" show - which I've heard - and the people from GRM did know where to get it, but they would have paid money for it. They did not, instead of it they released the old "beefed up" Fort Baxter CD and asked big money for it. On top of it there was no booklet, a wrong dated review and pictures that you get everywhere in the net for free. If that's not for the money, what else is. The hype about the design of their products is beyond me. "By Request Spanish Eyes" looked anything but good and that goes also for some other releases.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:30 pm

This is not VENUS vs GRAVEL ROAD MUSIC.

One label releases new material in great sound and very nicely packaged. The other takes old CDs, enhances the sound and re-packages them. These two labels play in totally different leagues.

But still I don't know why RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE should cause a rumble in the bootlegworld.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:37 pm

Something to avoid......and the cover is simply awfull

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:14 pm

KingElvis wrote:Something to avoid......and the cover is simply awfull

It's the same with all WONDERLAND releases. The originals are the better choice, but if one cannot get them anymore, the WLR editions are a cheap way to get the recordings.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:27 pm

The Welz wrote:
TheCoolKing wrote:You said, you know a lot about finance stuff.

IF GRM would be able to buy unreleased material they would double the price of their CDs.
(for those who doubt that: they charged an additional 10€ for a "bonus" guitar pick, that should be for free)
If they do, downloading will increase, sales will drop - ergo - they will triple the price of the next release and
won't sell anything - ergo - there will never be a third release.
The reason: they are only in it for the money, they give a sh*t about the fans.


This way of calculation is called "bottom up". In the first step you calculate the costs of a project, add a certain percentage and end up with the price you have to ask for. The only problem is, that in most cases the customers don't give a damn about your costs. So if you don't produce high-end stuff for customers who don't care about the price, this procedure doesn't work.

So you have to go in the opposite direction and use the "top down" calculation. You evaluate what price your customer is willing to pay and adjust your costs in a way you can meet this market price. This method is called "target costing". And you can believe me, that this way of calculation even works for good and innovative products, even for import releases with new and expensive material. And you can believe me, toto, there surely is a lot of interesting stuff out there that is not released, because no producer could get the price from the customers it would take to earn the investment back.

Of course the easiest way to make money is to use a source that is free, invest some bucks in the packaging and release the product. But I won't say that GRM doesn't care at all, their packaging is always great and in a lot of cases their releases sound better than the original ones. I know, that they just use the old CD (in most cases issued back in the 1990s) and beef them up with today's technology. But there's nothing wrong with it. If the new release looks and sounds better than the old one, I can check, if I am willing to invest a certain amount in this improvement.

To be honest, I don't care too much about the intentions of people. It's enough for me, if the result of their deeds is a good one.


Like I said before:
TheCoolKing wrote: :smt102 :smt102
It's hard to make something clear if the other person is not listening.


End of discussion, I've got better things to do.

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:23 pm

Burning all GRM releases? :wink:

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:47 pm

The Welz wrote:Burning all GRM releases? :wink:


Downloading (it's cheaper) :wink:

Re: Rumble In The Bootlegworld?

Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:37 pm

...I'm too old for downloading.

If the product sounds and looks good, I'll buy it. If it just looks good (like SITTING ON TOP OF THE WORLD) I do not.