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Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:14 am

For the moment, if I understand this correctly, LOC-1035 is assumed to be available through 1967, solely on Billboard charts. I just acquired more Shwann Long Playing catalogs. Of particular interest the Nov 1958 lists LOC-1035 only. As I indicated earlier, Dec 1959 lists LPM-1951 only. Billboard may have reported the charts artist and song titles or album titles rather accurately, but the little details, not so. Searching through Google books for other Elvis albums revealed many more problems. Take for instance, Elvis' Christmas Album, CAL-2428 (released in 1970 and listed in Billboard on Oct 3, 1970, p53). It is listed as CAS-2428. No mention of CAL-2428. CAS-2428 didn't exist until 1975.

My theory and belief is the following:
LOC-1035 available for the 1957 and 1958 Christmas seasons.
LPM-1951 was introduced in 1959 to replace LOC-1035. Any LOC-1035 stock that may have remained from the prior two Christmas seasons was likely sold off in 1959 (and would not have charted).

I have more Schwann Long Play guides from the 1960's, I haven't gone through them yet. I will, if I find anything of interest on this subject I will post.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:22 am

elvisrecords.us

Forgive me for my curiousity.

Are you a friend of Dr John Carpenter, if not him in disguise?


The reason I wonder is that the week before you joined the Doc was hinting at new information to prove his case was coming soon.

You turn up out of the blue with extensive research on the subject having never posted before.


What put you onto this board and subject?

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:01 am

elvisrecords.us wrote:For the moment, if I understand this correctly, LOC-1035 is assumed to be available through 1967, solely on Billboard charts. I just acquired more Shwann Long Playing catalogs. Of particular interest the Nov 1958 lists LOC-1035 only. As I indicated earlier, Dec 1959 lists LPM-1951 only. Billboard may have reported the charts artist and song titles or album titles rather accurately, but the little details, not so. Searching through Google books for other Elvis albums revealed many more problems. Take for instance, Elvis' Christmas Album, CAL-2428 (released in 1970 and listed in Billboard on Oct 3, 1970, p53). It is listed as CAS-2428. No mention of CAL-2428. CAS-2428 didn't exist until 1975.

My theory and belief is the following:
LOC-1035 available for the 1957 and 1958 Christmas seasons.
LPM-1951 was introduced in 1959 to replace LOC-1035. Any LOC-1035 stock that may have remained from the prior two Christmas seasons was likely sold off in 1959 (and would not have charted).

I have more Schwann Long Play guides from the 1960's, I haven't gone through them yet. I will, if I find anything of interest on this subject I will post.


I want to address your theory of LOC 1035 only being available for 3 years.
There are so many examples of new/old stock of LP's being found on retail shelves long longer than 3 years after deletion.
And this being a seasonal item, was not allowed to sell during the Jan. to October time frame as it was warehoused.
So, there was only a 2 month window for sales. I am pretty confident that it was probably found in pocket markets in small quanitities up thru at least 1963 or so.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:22 pm

KiwiAlan wrote:elvisrecords.us
Forgive me for my curiosity.
Are you a friend of Dr John Carpenter, if not him in disguise?
The reason I wonder is that the week before you joined the Doc was hinting at new information to prove his case was coming soon.
You turn up out of the blue with extensive research on the subject having never posted before.
What put you onto this board and subject?

I joined this discussion in an attempt to find a truth or common conscience based on material that was available for that period. It seems that today's discographies in general tend to site each other as references, eventually compounding on mistakes that were made by previous authors or researchers.

As for the comment about Dr John Carpenter, I am not him. However, after having read through this discussion, he has certainly introduced a lot of period material that I have found useful in drawing my own conclusions.

Incidentally, I have reviewed Dec 1961, Schwanns to see LPM-1951 is listed and no mention of LOC-1035. Also reviewed, Dec 1967, Schwanns to see LSP/LPM-1951 listed, no mention of LOC-1035.
Last edited by elvisrecords.us on Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:27 pm

ekenee wrote:I want to address your theory of LOC 1035 only being available for 3 years.
There are so many examples of new/old stock of LP's being found on retail shelves long longer than 3 years after deletion.
And this being a seasonal item, was not allowed to sell during the Jan. to October time frame as it was warehoused.
So, there was only a 2 month window for sales. I am pretty confident that it was probably found in pocket markets in small quantities up thru at least 1963 or so.

I can agree with that conlusion, old store stock, technically still exists today. On the collectors market as sealed examples still exist, and not only for that release. The point that I believe some have tried to make was RCA still pressing copies after December 1958. I don't believe so.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:28 am

elvisrecords.us wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:elvisrecords.us
Forgive me for my curiosity.
Are you a friend of Dr John Carpenter, if not him in disguise?
The reason I wonder is that the week before you joined the Doc was hinting at new information to prove his case was coming soon.
You turn up out of the blue with extensive research on the subject having never posted before.
What put you onto this board and subject?

I joined this discussion in an attempt to find a truth or common conscience based on material that was available for that period. It seems that today's discographies in general tend to site each other as references, eventually compounding on mistakes that were made by previous authors or researchers.

As for the comment about Dr John Carpenter, I am not him. However, after having read through this discussion, he has certainly introduced a lot of period material that I have found useful in drawing my own conclusions.

Incidentally, I have reviewed Dec 1961, Schwanns to see LPM-1951 is listed and no mention of LOC-1035. Also reviewed, Dec 1967, Schwanns to see LSP/LPM-1951 listed, no mention of LOC-1035.



Thanks for your work.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:41 am

elvisrecords.us wrote:
ekenee wrote:I want to address your theory of LOC 1035 only being available for 3 years.
There are so many examples of new/old stock of LP's being found on retail shelves long longer than 3 years after deletion.
And this being a seasonal item, was not allowed to sell during the Jan. to October time frame as it was warehoused.
So, there was only a 2 month window for sales. I am pretty confident that it was probably found in pocket markets in small quantities up thru at least 1963 or so.

I can agree with that conlusion, old store stock, technically still exists today. On the collectors market as sealed examples still exist, and not only for that release. The point that I believe some have tried to make was RCA still pressing copies after December 1958. I don't believe so.


I agree with you there. I don't believe they kept on pressing new copies either.

But I do believe that back in the early to mid 60's I would suppose one could fnd both versions still on the shelves at Christmas time.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:48 pm

elvisrecords.us wrote:The point that I believe some have tried to make was RCA still pressing copies after December 1958. I don't believe so.

You may well be right. But could LOC 1035 overstock have lasted for the 1958-1963 holiday seasons?

-----

At this point I offer a big thank you to the following members who added something positive to this topic:

elvisfan_48079
Mike Windgren
Frankie Teardrop
ekenee
rickeap
Hav-A-Tampa
Alexander
Steve Morse
painterboy
MysteryTrain
Little Darlin
Mike C
hollandgroupc2008
Juan Luis
jbnva58
paulsweeney
Mississippi
KiwiAlan
londonflash
Barry
PEP
epf
Mike Eder
pjdlibra
Luuk
wwelvis
PetriTCB
RonBaker2003
Mister Mike
norrie


It is for you, and all the fans who visit this forum worldwide, that I make the effort.

---

An extra special shout out goes to elvisrecords.us, whose scans from fifty year-old Schwann and RCA Victor catalogs, not to mention some of the great album art seen on page 1, helped cement the goals of my topic.

His clean, beautifully organized and easy-to-navigate website is HIGHLY recommended:

www.elvisrecords.us | The Elvis Presley Record Research Database
http://www.elvisrecords.us/

---

It's fun to rewrite history, even if it's just one EP and one LP in the enormous Elvis Presley U.S. discography.

If I get any more credible information, I'll add it here.

You can TRUST the DOC!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:35 am

Thanks for starting this informative thread, Doc.

One fact I neglected to mention. I purchased a mint copy of LOC 1035 from Rocky Barra, publisher of Strictly Elvis, in 1972. I was told that he or Taylor Scott noticed a record store ad in a Detroit newspaper advertising Elvis' "double" Christmas album. When the went to investigate they found a cashe of LOC 1035 for sale at the normal price for what would be a double album at the time -- maybe $9 or $10. Needless to say, they bought the whole lot. I paid $45 for my mint copy, which was in strink wrap, complete with the gold sticker. So, at least one store in the U.S.A. was stocking LOC 1035 as late as 1972.

MT

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 12:39 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:An extra special shout out goes to elvisrecords.us, whose scans from fifty year-old Schwann and RCA Victor catalogs, not to mention some of the great album art seen on page 1, helped cement the goals of my topic.

His clean, beautifully organized and easy-to-navigate website is HIGHLY recommended:

www.elvisrecords.us | The Elvis Presley Record Research Database
http://www.elvisrecords.us/


Totally agree - and that website is awesome.

Thanks for a very interesting and informative thread, Doc.

Rich

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:57 am

Rich_TCB wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:An extra special shout out goes to elvisrecords.us, whose scans from fifty year-old Schwann and RCA Victor catalogs, not to mention some of the great album art seen on page 1, helped cement the goals of my topic.

His clean, beautifully organized and easy-to-navigate website is HIGHLY recommended:

www.elvisrecords.us | The Elvis Presley Record Research Database
http://www.elvisrecords.us/


Totally agree - and that website is awesome.

Thanks for a very interesting and informative thread, Doc.

Rich

+1!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:58 am

Just a small update to a terrific topic -->

From: Ernst Jørgensen'

A note: Somebody checked LPM 1951 for me.
The matrix numbers for the LP sides are 1957 numbers, so they are of no use for dating the release.

If anything else comes to light, please post it here. I will do the same.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:42 pm

Memphis....um, R&B player, your agenda is loud and clear. Like all others who continuously get banned and rejoin FECC, you hang in there for a little while with your "new" user id, and when you can't take it any longer, you blow a gasket and start aggressively posting knowing full well another ban is coming. Who cares, right? You'll just rejoin a few weeks later! And the best part, you and your pals in the waiting room get to enjoy another psychotic laugh together! Yay!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Sun Apr 03, 2011 11:47 pm

midnightx wrote:Memphis....um, R&B player, your agenda is loud and clear. Like all others who continuously get banned and rejoin FECC, you hang in there for a little while with your "new" user id, and when you can't take it any longer, you blow a gasket and start aggressively posting knowing full well another ban is coming. Who cares, right? You'll just rejoin a few weeks later! And the best part, you and your pals in the waiting room get to enjoy another psychotic laugh together! Yay!

Careful - you might get the attentions of 1965, and you don't be wanting that now do ya?! Try to stay clear of the school gates children! (shudder)

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:21 am

Memphis, I'm not talking about the Doc, nor defending him. I am merely pointing out that your barrage of 7 posts is a bit extreme and clearly designed to attack the "Monkey Business" nemesis. You and your pals are very transparent with your "new" user ids and agenda. Have fun!

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:40 am

"The Doc.." (eye-twitch) "The Doc.." (eye-twitch) "The Doc.." (eye-twitch) "The Doc.." (eye-twitch) "The Doc.." (eye-twitch)

There's a remedy for your ailment - close your web browser and open the curtains.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:41 am

fantastic research Doc as always. :D

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:12 am

midnightx wrote:Memphis, I'm not talking about the Doc, nor defending him. I am merely pointing out that your barrage of 7 posts is a bit extreme and clearly designed to attack the "Monkey Business" nemesis. You and your pals are very transparent with your "new" user ids and agenda. Have fun!


Ironic that you are calling others "transparent". Just saying...
Everyone can see what your clicke is up to.
Never ceases to amaze me.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:34 am

pjdlibra wrote:fantastic research Doc as always. :D

Thank you. I spent hours on this topic.

Please forgive the rantings on the page, the internet is a public place, sometimes that's to our mutual misfortune.

Thanks to midnightx and Matthew for their support.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:00 pm

Doc...
Great research, as always. It was both thought provoking and encouraged additional research to support or dispell a valid theory. Either way, it generated interest and created a discussion. That's what I like about this forum.

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:03 pm

elvisrecords.us wrote:Doc...
Great research, as always. It was both thought provoking and encouraged additional research to support or dispell a valid theory. Either way, it generated interest and created a discussion. That's what I like about this forum.

Thank you so very much.

In case everyone does not already know, elvisrecords.us has the best Presley vinyl discography website I have ever seen:

www.elvisrecords.us | The Elvis Presley Record Research Database

Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:10 am

The Canadian 1958--LPM-1951
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Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:11 am

EP
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Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:12 am

EP
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Re: Elvis' Christmas Album --> Mystery No More?

Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:37 am

Barry, that is one heck of a clean LP!