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Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:40 pm

Ahh, OK.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:48 pm


I don't have this problem with other artists CD's - The Rolling Stones recent 'remasters' have far more volume (about normal I would say) and there is NO distortion at all and much improved on previous issues. I like a bit of volume. With "Elvis at Sun", if a butterfly flies past or something, you can't hear it properly!

By the way, what's a 'dipshit' and what do you mean about people 'controlling themselves'?!


I'm not going to get into explaining the principles behind the loudness race, Replay Gain and all the rest of that technical stuff you can look up online.

Here are a few observations, though:

Elvis at Sun is mastered with an RMS that ranges from 95.1 dB on Blue Moon of Kentucky, down to 89.7 dB on Trying to Get to You.

The average is 92.2222.

Now, on what planet is that an exceedingly quiet disc? It is not. I can give you thousands of examples from my own collection for which that's quite ordinary.

Are there louder tracks? Yes, you can find RMS readings approaching 100. That by no means indicates that those discs were mastered well. In fact, in most cases, quite the contrary.

But regardless of the loudest tracks around, 92-ish is NOT a quiet disc.

However, a fair comparison, I suppose, would be the previous Sun collection, Sunrise.

The RMS range on that disc's masters was from ... wait for it ... 92.2 to 86.4 ... QUIETER than Elvis at Sun!

Now, as to the subject of your hearing specifically ... I Replay Gain my entire collection to one of the most conservative targets around: 83.0. That is 6 dB lower than what has (unfortunately) become the standard Replay Gain setting.

At 83.0, my collection played at maximum volume through an iPod is still at a level that is unsafely loud.
Last edited by elvissessions on Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:00 pm

Elvis At Sun is not too quiet. Generally speaking , a cd is considered too quiet if the loudest peak on a cd is below -6db (peak amplitude) and that's certainly not the case with EAS.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:06 pm

elvissessions wrote:I'm not going to get into explaining the principes behind the loudness race, Replay Gain and all the rest of that technical stuff you can look up online.

Here are a few observations, though:

Elvis at Sun is mastered with an RMS that ranges from 95.1 dB on Blue Moon of Kentucky, down to 89.7 dB on Trying to Get to You.

The average is 92.2222.

Now, what planet is that an exceedingly quiet disc? It is not. I can give you thousands of examples from my own collection for which that's quite ordinary.

Are there louder tracks? Yes, you can find RMS readings approaching 100. That by no means means those discs were mastered well. In fact, in most cases, quite the contrary.

But regardless of the loudest tracks around, 92-ish is NOT a quiet disc.

However, a fair comparison, I suppose, would be the previous Sun collection, Sunrise.

The RMS range on that disc's masters was from ... wait for it ... 92.2 to 86.4 ... QUIETER than Elvis at Sun!

Now, as to the subject of your hearing specifically ... I Replay Gain my entire collection to one of the most conservative targets around: 83.0. That is 6 dB lower than what has (unfortunately) become the standard Replay Gain setting.

At 83.0, my collection played at maximum volume through an iPod is still at a level that is unsafely loud.

Elvissessions, fantastic post, thank you!

I just spotted this nice site here, where the first article focuses on our discussions:
http://themysterytrain.wordpress.com/

Troy, I hope it's okay if I post your link here. Please let me know.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:55 am

My opinion of the Box set is as follows:
The sound is very acceptable for discs 1 -27. It is what I expected.
However, the short comings are as follows:
The outtakes are irrelevant - everyone who bought this set has them. We did not need ALL of them. There are many that should have been included as part of the masters as well as many are missing that should have been on this box set.
What should have happened all remakes, alternate masters should have been included in chronological order and fully remastered as part of the masters. By this I mean the 4 sun demos, and every song that was recorded as a seperate alternate master. Why don't we have "I Love You Becouse" second version (it was released during Elvis lifetime), Lonely Man Solo, Until It's Time To Go remake, Singing Tree Remake, Ask Me etc come to mind there are others - too many to mention. These are different performances with unique matrix numbers assigned.
These are more important than home recordings.

The book should have included the pictures of all front AND rear covers of all singles and albums. Not just the front pictures that everyone knows and seen millions of time.

The CDs should have been presented in jewel cases as the current packaging is not practical. It could have been similar approach to the Japanese Complete Singles box set.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:57 am

GregCieslik wrote:My opinion of the Box set is as follows:
The sound is very acceptable for discs 1 -27. It is what I expected.
However, the short comings are as follows:
The outtakes are irrelevant - everyone who bought this set has them. We did not need ALL of them. There are many that should have been included as part of the masters as well as many are missing that should have been on this box set.

Not true.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:28 am

I very, very much disagree that any alternate masters are more important than the home recordings. What is important is the voice of Elvis Presley singing unique songs. Damnit, the home recording of Mona Lisa is FAR more important than Queenie Wahine's Papaya (and that is a MASTER), sound quality be damned. If I was to change the set's parameters, it would be to include at least one version of every song Elvis sang that we have recorded evidence of, as well as every lifetime master. That could have been achieved with 30 discs.
See how subjective this all is, and that no one way of doing it would satisfy everyone?

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:46 am

The selection of tracks are very inconsistent and will seriouly distort actuality if used as a future reference.

As GregCieslik pointed out there are many "wrong" entries. What is Dainty Little Moonbeams doing there and even the track order is in error....check out Let Me or the New York sessions. Just two examples

Having said that I was surprised that Lover Doll two versions are in the right order.........something not many people would know.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:12 pm

If I was to change the set's parameters, it would be to include at least one version of every song Elvis sang that we have recorded evidence of, as well as every lifetime master. That could have been achieved with 30 discs.



yes exactly the same opinion.

I have made 2 CD with all the song that were missing due to the theme of the set.

30 or 32 CD doesn't make any difference in the price. 10$ more for the set wouldn't have bothered anyone who has bought the set.

That's the only thing I have against this set.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:16 pm

The outtakes are irrelevant - everyone who bought this set has them. We did not need ALL of them


everyone who bought this set has all the songs from CD 1 to 27, so the remark is irrelevant

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:00 pm

Phil wrote:
The outtakes are irrelevant - everyone who bought this set has them. We did not need ALL of them


everyone who bought this set has all the songs from CD 1 to 27, so the remark is irrelevant


Not really - as the premise of the set is to have all the masters in one spot in top notch quality. The outtakes should have been limited to Alternate Masters / Remakes demos.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:05 pm

midnightx wrote:
GregCieslik wrote:My opinion of the Box set is as follows:
The sound is very acceptable for discs 1 -27. It is what I expected.
However, the short comings are as follows:
The outtakes are irrelevant - everyone who bought this set has them. We did not need ALL of them. There are many that should have been included as part of the masters as well as many are missing that should have been on this box set.

Not true.


I didn't. Discs 28, 29 and 30 are better than a lot of the discs containing his masters. Also a lot of Elvis' Home Recordings are better than 50% of what he recorded in a studio.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:17 pm

[quote="elvissessions"][

Elvis at Sun is mastered with an RMS that ranges from 95.1 dB on Blue Moon of Kentucky, down to 89.7 dB on Trying to Get to You.
quote]

How on earth did you obtain this information and how do you know it's true?

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:19 pm

Oh, man!

So damned close!

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:19 pm

TONY is a legend!

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:47 pm

How on earth did you obtain this information and how do you know it's true?


It's magic, Tony. I'm a warlock with powerful dark arts.

One of my other witchy skills allows me to seek and find information about any earthly topic from a mighty demon.

I will now summon this powerful creature on your behalf.

Careful! DO NOT STAND NEAR ME as I speak his fearsome name three times ...

google .... GOOGLE ... GOOGLE

Now, Tony, SPEAK, SPEAK, SPEAK to this terrible beast, speak to him of "Replay Gain" ... speak to him of "loudness race" ... speak to him of "RMS."

In other words, if I say you can look something up for yourself, why don't you try that?

This stuff isn't that arcane.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:15 pm

Hey Luckyjackson1

I know you probably need another week to listen but wonder so far how many tracks you noticed has clipped intro (you mention "Promised Land" and "Rags to Riches") and is it like the clip intro on "Down in the alley" master that was on the 5 CD 60's masters ?

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:32 pm

Phil,
I'm curious about what tracks you put on your additional 2 cd's. Can you list them here?
I too am trying to compile what I feel are "missing tracks"
In my mind, the unedited "I Love you beacuse" with the narrative should have been in there. My Way from 1977 a million seller as well. I think even the 1981 Guitar Man remix as it was a #1 country hit. The Movie version of Frankie & Johnny from the FTD would have been neat. Also the Sinatra duet of Witchcraft. These are just a few.



yes exactly the same opinion.

I have made 2 CD with all the song that were missing due to the theme of the set.

30 or 32 CD doesn't make any difference in the price. 10$ more for the set wouldn't have bothered anyone who has bought the set.

That's the only thing I have against this set.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:44 pm

Robt wrote:Hey Luckyjackson1

I know you probably need another week to listen but wonder so far how many tracks you noticed has clipped intro (you mention "Promised Land" and "Rags to Riches") and is it like the clip intro on "Down in the alley" master that was on the 5 CD 60's masters ?


Robt, don't forget "She's Not You". The worst clipping occurs on "Rags To Riches", followed by one missing cowbell strike on "Promised Land". Of course, it's just a question of milliseconds, but it is a matter of principle.

Luckily enough, I have the Elvis 75 Box Set (and even the 3cd version), so I can stick to these. Gotta check out RTR again on the latter.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:31 pm

The Intro Edit for Promised Land and Scratch My Back is really bad :twisted:

Good to have the BLUE RIVER ext. Version 2:10min as appeared on the Double Trouble RCA LP.

Dixieland Rock has the long intro.
Also Almost in Love long intro.

Long Legged Girl has the DRUM beat edited.
The Original Drum Beat 1st appeared on a BMG 3 CD Box Set.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:35 pm

Andy-M wrote:Long Legged Girl has the DRUM beat edited.

Really? I think it was only clipped on "Double Features"... Andy, to me it sounds complete. Don't you mess it up with the Alternate Version? Just a thought.

The "Blue River" mix isn't exactly the same as on the LP but there it sounded inferior (at least on my 80's copy), so they did a good job on that.

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:41 pm

Here you can find Long Legged Girl in great sound with Original DRUM Beat Intro. !!

Elvis Presley
Three Disc Set

Front of cardboard box - Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249 Back of cardboard box - Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249
CARDBOARD BOX

Release: 1990
BMG CD 90249 Germany 100 €

Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249 Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249

The 3 discs came in a multi (fat) box housed in a cardboard box.

Disc 1 - Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249
CD 1:
Matrix number: SONOPRESS F-0754 / CD90249-1 A

Heartbreak Hotel
Blue Suede Shoes
I Want You, I need You, I love You
My Baby Left Me
Hound Dog
Don't Be Cruel
Love Me Tender
All Shook Up
That's When Your Heartaches Begin
Paralysed
Lawdy, Miss Clawdy
I'm Left, You're Right, She's Gone
I Forgot To Remember To Forget
Just Because
Jailhouse Rock
(Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear
Party
Got A Lot O' Livin' To Do

Disc 2 - Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249
CD 2:
Matrix number: SONOPRESS F-0755 / CD90249-2 A

Wild In The Country
(Marie's The Name Of) His Latest Flame
Rock-A-Hula Baby
Good Luck Charm
She's Not You
(You're The) Devil In Disguise
Crying In The Chapel
Ain't That loving You Baby
Indescribably Blue
Love letters
Long Legged Girls (With The Short Dresses On)
There's Always Me
You Gotta Stop
You'll Never Walk Alone
Your Time Hasn't Come Yet Baby
Almost In love

Disc 3 - Three Disc Set - Germany 1990 - BMG CD 90249
CD 3:
Matrix number: SONOPRESS F-0756 / CD90249-3 A

Guitar Man
Hi_Hell Sneakers
U.S. Male
Menories
In the Ghetto
Suspicious Minds
Kentucky Rain
I've Lost You
I Just Can't Help Believin'
Until It's Time For You To Go
the Wonder of You
I'm Leavin'
Burning Love
The Next Step is Love
My Way
An American Trilogy

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:42 pm

luckyjackson1 wrote:
Andy-M wrote:Long Legged Girl has the DRUM beat edited.

Really? I think it was only clipped on "Double Features"... Andy, to me it sounds complete. Don't you mess it up with the Alternate Version? Just a thought.

The "Blue River" mix isn't exactly the same as on the LP but there it sounded inferior (at least on my 80's copy), so they did a good job on that.


The other RCA BMG CD with the early Mix and complete version of Blue River is the Australia 100 Super Rocks 4 CD Box Set,

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:42 am

BTW, I have a version of I'm A Roustabout that was available on some website remastered by the owner (sorry, it's been too long) and it sounded quite better than the 2nd to none...

Re: ... and the worst about the SONY BOX is ...

Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:24 pm

frus75 wrote:BTW, I have a version of I'm A Roustabout that was available on some website remastered by the owner (sorry, it's been too long) and it sounded quite better than the 2nd to none...

Yeah, I have that one too. To me it also sounds slightly better than on the recent big box (although it's mp3 !!!). Think about it, Lene...