Off Topic Messages

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:57 am

Hi just like to thank Elvis Sessions for his advice .I have just purchased this sofware by reading your recomendation.
Hopfully it will be delivered before i receive THE COMPLETE MASTERS.
I am bit of a nofice regarding this subject.I have 1100 elvis c.d.'s including bmg sony rca and imports ripped onto my ipod classic .
I ripped all my sony bmg rca c.d's using itunes software at 320 kbps(stereo) AAC vbr optimized for mmx/sse2.
And a friend of mine encoded my imports(bootlegs)as mp3 192 kbps using music match as he does not like using itunes
What is the best way of ripping them to use on my ipod also to copy cd's to use.
Do i make flac files and then convert them from that to what i want.
As regards all the other c.d.'s i have on my ipod ,If i was starting all over again I probably not have used aac to encode music as i believe you can be a bit confined to what device u can play music on.
If i convert my AAC files to another format will i loose quality.
Is the only way by going back to my original c.d.'s to encode again.
Thanks regards Matthew

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:22 am

If you're pretty much exclusively an itunes/ipod user, then probably Apple lossless is your best bet. Good news: dbpoweramp will do that for you, too, as I mentioned before.

From you description, it sounds as if you've used a lossy format and then your friend has transcoded to a lower-quality lossy format. Now 320kbs AAC is very high quality, and 192 isn't too shabby either, so the amount of transcoding errors may be completely or nearly inaudible. Certainly nothing to get panicky about.

However, the best thing to do for permanent archiving is to pick a lossless format and work from that as the base. If you aren't packing your iPod totally full, in fact, you can just transfer the Apple lossless files over and you will be listening in exactly the same quality as if it were the original CD.

I find 192 VBR LAME to be a very satisfying bit rate for everyday listening, and research supports that. No reason to get overly fussy most of the time. Of course, if I'm doing any editing or extremely close listening at home, I switch back to lossless.

The main thing is lossless future-proofs your collection. If you decide to switch to a player that doesn't use AAC (i.e. just about anything but an iPod), then you'll have perfect "originals" to work from.

I want to emphasize, there's nothing wrong at all with Apple lossless. My favoring of FLAC has to do with things such as expansive tagging, etc., that you may not care anything at all about.

If you need any help setting up dbpoweramp, please let me know, and I'll try to help as best I can. Once you have it set up, I'm certain you'll see how powerful it is.

You should get a very fast response to your online order, so if you haven't seen an answer soon, I'd check your junk mail.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:34 am

By way of a progress report on my own work on ripping these discs to my archives:

Yep, I'm still working at it ... I had to take a couple of breaks for real life, but I've finished 22 out of the 30 discs.

So far, almost perfect. One track needed 12 frames reripped. To give you some idea how obsessive this process is, that's equal (if my math is correct) to 0.001633 second. Also, the frames weren't sequential, so really, only a computer could detect the difference.

Dbpoweramp is telling me that it considers it a secure rip after testing those 12 frames, but I'm going to keep chipping away at it and try to get a clean and matching sweep on other drives.

We'll see how the last eight discs go, but things are going well so far.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:16 pm

At long last, I've completed the cycle of secure rips on all the discs.

If others are using dbpoweramp or EAC, I'd be interested in how things went on track 1 of disc 21 (I've Lost You).

The track checks out again and again with matching CRCs over a number of disc insertions, so it's pretty much statiscally certain that I got a secure transfer. However, it had to work at it a bit on a few frames -- as few as 12 sometimes, as I mentioned.

Sometimes that can indicate a minor pressing problem (I had an issue like this a few months ago with my Neil Young Archives box set, for example, and even after getting a replacement copy it had exactly the same problem), but of course there could be an imperceptible defect on the disc, too.

Just curious what other's results are.

Good news for me is that as I mentioned, we're talking about 0.001633 second, so even I can't get too worked up.

But more important, I have the Franklin Mint set, too, so I can just swap out from that set for an exact copy of the track ;)

See, and people thought buying both sets was a waste of money. :lol:

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 pm

LOL ... well, I was about to give up and slip the disc away ... Figured, oh, it's in the tray, may as well pop it in again for one last try.

It appears everything wobbled the right way this time through -- four clean passes and, more important, a CRC that matches every single one of the other rips.

Nothing in life is certain, but this is close enough: I've archived this collection at last.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:55 pm

OK elvissessions. I really need your honest advice here. I've got an external hard drive. I've got my Complete Masters set. And I've got my hi-fi system which plays the lot. I haven't worked out what I want to do with it, but I need to figure out the best way I can enjoy the music here, without having to physically play these discs all the time. Could you offer you're best honest advice to a techno-idiot like me because slipping these discs in and out of the cardboard sleeves are already worrying me!

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:40 pm

First and foremost, I just do NOT believe these discs should be played day to day. I'd asy that about a $60 set -- and I practice what I preach. On a $750 set, no way. Crazy. One disc ruined, what are you going to do? Go buy another box?

Let me keep this real straightforward and simple because I don't want you or anyone else to be overwhelmed.

Dbpoweramp -- or, yes, Exact Audio Copy -- offer a level of truly insane obsessive security and certainty. They are NOT essential. You can accomplish average-guy audio archiving WITHOUT new software.

I will tell you what I do with my collection, and then we'll scale it back to planet earth.

I made a lossless copy using a secure ripper, and then I backed up one copy of my whole collection (not just Elvis here, but everything) for my home, one that I keep at my parents house and one that I put in a safe-deposit box. This was years ago, and hard-drive prices have come down considerably, so I recently consolidated all the lossless collection on a single giant drive, and I took the old set of drives in my home and moved them to a storage unit. So I now have four original copies kept in separate locations miles from each other.

Then I took the entire collection and transcoded it to the mp3 settings I prefer for day-to-day casual listening. I have three copies of that. One that is in use, one backup at my parents' home and one hidden away here at home.

Obsessive? You betcha. In my defense, we're talking about thousands and thousands of discs here -- lots of time and money invested through the years, plus an unbelievably massive undertaking to get them all transferred using secure ripping software (not a full year of nightly work, but close to it -- scarily close to it.)

And, as I've said before, I used dbpoweramp, which I love.

OK, so now let's say you are a real human being with a real life. How can we make this work for you, someone who doesn't want to go through all this rigamarole?

Let's put aside secure ripping for a moment, let's just keep it real simple.

The most important thing is to save these right away before you start scuffing up the discs. Use lossless compression.

It doesn't matter how routine your software is, you should have a lossless option.

Even if you use Windows Media Player. Go into options (hiding under organize in the latest version), find the rip music tab and drag down to Windows Media Audio Lossless.

Even if you use iTunes. Go into preferences ... find the import settings button in the general tab ... drag down to Apple Lossless Encoder.

OK, now, again, we're not worrying about secure ripping, we're adapting this to normal humanoid lifeforms right now.

Once you're using lossless, you can begin ripping your discs just as you always have, using your new settings.

And when you're done, here's what you've accomplished: You have just saved a perfect bit-for-bit copy of whatever your disc drive read off those discs. Most likely it is perfect, and in the small chance of an imperfection, it's highly unlikely the imperfection is audible. For sane people, you're done.

You have just created a smaller but mathematically exact copy of your music. In a very simplistic way, think of it this way. (And, yes, this is very simplistic.) Lossless uses an algorithm to translate the music in a way that it can later perfectly reverse. So, if there are 11 zeroes in a row, it wouldn't write out 11 zeroes, it would encode it to say (11)0 ... Did I mention that this is incredibly simplistic? OK, so now when it comes time to play it back it doesn't play (11)0s, of course. it says: Oh, this is suppozed to be 00000000000, and translates it.

There is NO loss. You have just saved your music in a more portable version that is FUTURE-PROOF. In other words, if you ever decide you want it in another format or another medium, you just transcode it from the originals. That will be just as if you copied them from the original discs.

In the meantime, you can then burn off exact copies of the discs, if that's your preference, or you can rearrange them in your own playlists (which is my preference) and when you replay them, they will sound exactly like the original discs. You could also burn them to an mp3 data disc if you like ... heck, whatever you want.

With a variety of software, dbpoweramp, winamp, i dunno what all, but lots of choices, you can translate them to whatever format you want, even another lossless format. That's a whole other discussion, so let's put it aside for a moment. It's highly unlikely that Apple or Windows is going anywhere soon. Those formats are pretty secure, but even if they do go out of business, there will always be codecs available to translate. I like FLAC, but it DOES NOT MATTER. Lossless is lossless. Get comfortable with it and learn to love it. .. It's smaller and more taggable than CD audio --and it sounds EXACTLY the same ... Why? Because it IS mathematically the same. It is not a lossy format like mp3.

All right, enough about all that. I hope you're convinced.

So now the next step is just to archive it somewhere. My collection is so large, I choose to keep it on hard drives. Obviously, my approach to preventing drive failure is to have multiple redundant copies in a variety of safe places. (I have had excellent experiences with Seagate drives. I have had terrible experiences with other drives. I use Seagate.)

But if you are just archiving a few discs, then keep a copy on your hard drive, but burn off MULTIPLE copies onto CDRS. GOOD GRIEF DO NOT ARCHIVE THEM BY BURNING THEM AS STANDARD CDs, though. No sir ... Makes no sense, then you have to turn around and redo all this again someday. Just drag and drop the folders and files from your hard drive on the CDRS, right? See, that's simple. You've just created data discs. Make more than one copy. It's fun! It's easy! Have a couple of old memory sticks lying around? What the heck, throw the music on there, too. Now sprinkle a few of those copies around the neighborhood. Put 'em at a friend's house, put one at work. Now, see, even if a drive fails, even if there's a fire, you have an easy-to-get-to perfect copy of the files. Don't you feel better. I feel better for you, too.

Now, what about this secure ripping thing I've been babbling about? Yes, that's a bit of an undertaking. It can be very slow because the secure programs read the disc over and over again to suss out errors. But on good, new discs, there are very rarely errors. Very rarely.

You saw my obsessive example in this thread, right? Out of 30 discs, the amount of troubled information was less than 0.0017 second. No way would that be audible even if it were a full 0.0017 second in a row, but in fact, it was in a few little nonsequential bits. This cannot be heard. I want PERFECTION, but I am not mentally stable. I am a sick individual. You are normal and sane. Don't get too worried about it if you don't want to worry about it.

You want poor man/lazy man secure ripping? After you rip the discs, reinsert them one by one. Change the artist name in the disc listings. ... Call 'em, I dunno Elvis Presley take 2 or Elvis Presley safety or Elvis Presley backup. Rip 'em all again lickety-split. Now, if you're drive jumped or your wife kicked the computer or any sort of thing like that happened, you'll have an alternative copy you can go to just in case. Will that detect and address truly problematic disc data? No, it will not. But here's the deal ... it's no worse -- in fact, it's still a lot better -- than just playing the original discs. You listen to the discs now day to day without obsessive secure playback, and you seem to be a happy enough fellow. So there you have it; this is no different.

And if you are using real basic software, and you know you're going to be listening to mp3 day-to-day, well, heck, why not re-rip an mp3 copy right now. ... Just change your rip settings as you did before, and change the artist name to, oh, I dunno, Elvis Presley mp3. There, you have another alternative copy and it's all compressed for you and ready to go.

IF you want to get into the crazy world of secure ripping, then I'm going there with you. We'll talk about that, too. But the main thing I want you to do is PROTECT the music on those discs. Let's get that done, shall we :)

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:04 am

Thanks man for your time. Yeah, I'm not too fussed in this secure ripping as the 0.17 seconds or whatever doesn't seem that important - and I'm a perfectionist myself.

It's just I have little experience at this kind of stuff, I've only ever burned CD's to my iTunes. But with this set, I want something a bit better, to really preserve it in the correct quality this set deserves. My main idea is to basically put it all onto iTunes/iPod because there are many times in modern life when this is the only suitable way to listen to music. But I want to also create as you say Lossless copies for my hard drive - and also burn basically 30 CD's in the same identical quality as the originals. I may sound like a complete idiot here but I don't care(!) - but once you have your lossless copies, can you then simply burn these to a CD and it will therefore be perfect?

I'm gonna start this mammoth task of preserving the greatest music collection of all time later on this week, you're probably sick of me but I might drop you a PM for one last guidance check! Thanks once again.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:07 am

That's right, when you work from the lossless copy, it will be just the same as if you did a disc-to-disc copy. The ONLY difference might be the gaps between the songs, depending on how you have your gaps set up on your burning software. However, that has NOTHING to do with the original encoding, that's up to you and the software you use after the fact.

And as far as other questions, no problem ... I will answer them in as timely way as I can.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:28 pm

elvissessions wrote:First and foremost, I just do NOT believe these discs should be played day to day. I'd asy that about a $60 set -- and I practice what I preach. On a $750 set, no way. Crazy. One disc ruined, what are you going to do? Go buy another box?

Let me keep this real straightforward and simple because I don't want you or anyone else to be overwhelmed.

Dbpoweramp -- or, yes, Exact Audio Copy -- offer a level of truly insane obsessive security and certainty. They are NOT essential. You can accomplish average-guy audio archiving WITHOUT new software.

I will tell you what I do with my collection, and then we'll scale it back to planet earth.

I made a lossless copy using a secure ripper, and then I backed up one copy of my whole collection (not just Elvis here, but everything) for my home, one that I keep at my parents house and one that I put in a safe-deposit box. This was years ago, and hard-drive prices have come down considerably, so I recently consolidated all the lossless collection on a single giant drive, and I took the old set of drives in my home and moved them to a storage unit. So I now have four original copies kept in separate locations miles from each other.

Then I took the entire collection and transcoded it to the mp3 settings I prefer for day-to-day casual listening. I have three copies of that. One that is in use, one backup at my parents' home and one hidden away here at home.

Obsessive? You betcha. In my defense, we're talking about thousands and thousands of discs here -- lots of time and money invested through the years, plus an unbelievably massive undertaking to get them all transferred using secure ripping software (not a full year of nightly work, but close to it -- scarily close to it.)

And, as I've said before, I used dbpoweramp, which I love.

OK, so now let's say you are a real human being with a real life. How can we make this work for you, someone who doesn't want to go through all this rigamarole?

Let's put aside secure ripping for a moment, let's just keep it real simple.

The most important thing is to save these right away before you start scuffing up the discs. Use lossless compression.

It doesn't matter how routine your software is, you should have a lossless option.

Even if you use Windows Media Player. Go into options (hiding under organize in the latest version), find the rip music tab and drag down to Windows Media Audio Lossless.

Even if you use iTunes. Go into preferences ... find the import settings button in the general tab ... drag down to Apple Lossless Encoder.

OK, now, again, we're not worrying about secure ripping, we're adapting this to normal humanoid lifeforms right now.

Once you're using lossless, you can begin ripping your discs just as you always have, using your new settings.

And when you're done, here's what you've accomplished: You have just saved a perfect bit-for-bit copy of whatever your disc drive read off those discs. Most likely it is perfect, and in the small chance of an imperfection, it's highly unlikely the imperfection is audible. For sane people, you're done.

You have just created a smaller but mathematically exact copy of your music. In a very simplistic way, think of it this way. (And, yes, this is very simplistic.) Lossless uses an algorithm to translate the music in a way that it can later perfectly reverse. So, if there are 11 zeroes in a row, it wouldn't write out 11 zeroes, it would encode it to say (11)0 ... Did I mention that this is incredibly simplistic? OK, so now when it comes time to play it back it doesn't play (11)0s, of course. it says: Oh, this is suppozed to be 00000000000, and translates it.

There is NO loss. You have just saved your music in a more portable version that is FUTURE-PROOF. In other words, if you ever decide you want it in another format or another medium, you just transcode it from the originals. That will be just as if you copied them from the original discs.

In the meantime, you can then burn off exact copies of the discs, if that's your preference, or you can rearrange them in your own playlists (which is my preference) and when you replay them, they will sound exactly like the original discs. You could also burn them to an mp3 data disc if you like ... heck, whatever you want.

With a variety of software, dbpoweramp, winamp, i dunno what all, but lots of choices, you can translate them to whatever format you want, even another lossless format. That's a whole other discussion, so let's put it aside for a moment. It's highly unlikely that Apple or Windows is going anywhere soon. Those formats are pretty secure, but even if they do go out of business, there will always be codecs available to translate. I like FLAC, but it DOES NOT MATTER. Lossless is lossless. Get comfortable with it and learn to love it. .. It's smaller and more taggable than CD audio --and it sounds EXACTLY the same ... Why? Because it IS mathematically the same. It is not a lossy format like mp3.

All right, enough about all that. I hope you're convinced.

So now the next step is just to archive it somewhere. My collection is so large, I choose to keep it on hard drives. Obviously, my approach to preventing drive failure is to have multiple redundant copies in a variety of safe places. (I have had excellent experiences with Seagate drives. I have had terrible experiences with other drives. I use Seagate.)

But if you are just archiving a few discs, then keep a copy on your hard drive, but burn off MULTIPLE copies onto CDRS. GOOD GRIEF DO NOT ARCHIVE THEM BY BURNING THEM AS STANDARD CDs, though. No sir ... Makes no sense, then you have to turn around and redo all this again someday. Just drag and drop the folders and files from your hard drive on the CDRS, right? See, that's simple. You've just created data discs. Make more than one copy. It's fun! It's easy! Have a couple of old memory sticks lying around? What the heck, throw the music on there, too. Now sprinkle a few of those copies around the neighborhood. Put 'em at a friend's house, put one at work. Now, see, even if a drive fails, even if there's a fire, you have an easy-to-get-to perfect copy of the files. Don't you feel better. I feel better for you, too.

Now, what about this secure ripping thing I've been babbling about? Yes, that's a bit of an undertaking. It can be very slow because the secure programs read the disc over and over again to suss out errors. But on good, new discs, there are very rarely errors. Very rarely.

You saw my obsessive example in this thread, right? Out of 30 discs, the amount of troubled information was less than 0.0017 second. No way would that be audible even if it were a full 0.0017 second in a row, but in fact, it was in a few little nonsequential bits. This cannot be heard. I want PERFECTION, but I am not mentally stable. I am a sick individual. You are normal and sane. Don't get too worried about it if you don't want to worry about it.

You want poor man/lazy man secure ripping? After you rip the discs, reinsert them one by one. Change the artist name in the disc listings. ... Call 'em, I dunno Elvis Presley take 2 or Elvis Presley safety or Elvis Presley backup. Rip 'em all again lickety-split. Now, if you're drive jumped or your wife kicked the computer or any sort of thing like that happened, you'll have an alternative copy you can go to just in case. Will that detect and address truly problematic disc data? No, it will not. But here's the deal ... it's no worse -- in fact, it's still a lot better -- than just playing the original discs. You listen to the discs now day to day without obsessive secure playback, and you seem to be a happy enough fellow. So there you have it; this is no different.

And if you are using real basic software, and you know you're going to be listening to mp3 day-to-day, well, heck, why not re-rip an mp3 copy right now. ... Just change your rip settings as you did before, and change the artist name to, oh, I dunno, Elvis Presley mp3. There, you have another alternative copy and it's all compressed for you and ready to go.

IF you want to get into the crazy world of secure ripping, then I'm going there with you. We'll talk about that, too. But the main thing I want you to do is PROTECT the music on those discs. Let's get that done, shall we :)


Wow, elvissessions, thanks for the great advice!

I have an iMac and plan on using the loseless format in iTunes. You also mentiond Dbpoweramp, so do you recommend that for iMac?

How did you get the discs out of the set without scuffing them, even in a minor way. Thanks so much!

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:45 pm

Mike C wrote: How did you get the discs out of the set without scuffing them, even in a minor way. Thanks so much!


Well, I just picked the thing up and shook it hard until the discs fell out into a pile on the floor, then I threw 'em all into my car stereo. The one that didn't fall out, I removed with a pair of pliers.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:04 pm

Frankie Teardrop wrote:
Mike C wrote: How did you get the discs out of the set without scuffing them, even in a minor way. Thanks so much!


Well, I just picked the thing up and shook it hard until the discs fell out into a pile on the floor, then I threw 'em all into my car stereo. The one that didn't fall out, I removed with a pair of pliers.


TFF :D :D

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:34 pm

Thanks for all of the info elvissessions, very helpful. I've been living the human life :D as I rip all my CD's in iTunes using ALAC and then store the CD's. Like you, I have multiple copies on hard drives in my house and also off site. Playing Apple Lossless on an Apple TV using a 5.1 system is outstanding for me. If I ever want to delve into the world of FLAC, you've certainly sold me on dbpoweramp.

I really wish Sony would start to offer FLAC/ALAC downloads as that's my only interest in the CD's is to convert them. I've only become an Elvis fanatic over the last 6 months so it's difficult to acquire FTD's since I didn't start from the beginning. I can see limiting the physical copies for collectors but really wish they would keep the music accessible for future fans. I think that some type of download solution is inevitable but hope it happens sooner than later. Anyway, didn't mean to get off topic as that's a whole new thread.

Thanks again for the great info!

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:10 am

elvissessions wrote:If you take a FLAC copy, pull it out to a WAV file, invert the signal, lay it against the original track, you will have absolute pure silence. This is audible proof of the math underlying this principle. It's a mathematically perfect copy. In fact, it has to be, as it is nothing but an elaborate mathematical equation.

Does the FLAC encoding ( ranging from 0 to 8 ) affect in any form the audio quality when decoded back to WAV or is it just similar to... I don't know, a .zip file so to speak?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:59 pm

Although bumping and necroing threads is ordinarily anathema to me, with a new group of folks receiving this set soon, I'm resurrecting this public service announcement.


Look at it this way, this is one of the few things KiwiAlan and I can agree on.

There MUST be something to it. :)

Andy JimmyCool, I JUST saw your question, which you posted many months ago:

Does the FLAC encoding ( ranging from 0 to 8 ) affect in any form the audio quality when decoded back to WAV or is it just similar to... I don't know, a .zip file so to speak?


No, it doesn't affect the audio quality. It does -- slightly -- affect how efficiently the file is compressed. But it is much slower the more compressed it is. But again, no difference in audio quality. Five has generally been considered the sweet spot between speed and space. With storage space as cheap as it is, there's really no reason to sweat that last bit of compression that won't gain you much room anyways (in my opinion).

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:17 am

I have copied my set of the Complete Masters twice... at FLAC and at 320 MP3

Using dbPoweramp. With no problems at all.

I would suggest that people download a trial version...you will be amazed.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:02 pm

Claus wrote:Windows Media Player can't play flac files, afaik. You need foobar which will play preactically everything.

wrong!
downloading the free codec 1.2.1b for WMP
http://flac.sourceforge.net/download.html
WMP will play all Flac Files seamlessly.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:14 pm

I stand corrected. I don't use WMP much anyway. It uses too many resources.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:39 pm

elvissessions wrote:You seem to believe that the following two strings can sound different:

0001101101000001101110100111000010100110110101110100110000000001000011010011100000011001011001101110
0001101101000001101110100111000010100110110101110100110000000001000011010011100000011001011001101110

These two strings must sound exactly the same. They must sound the same because they ARE exactly the same.

Debating whether 2+2=4 is a waste of time for us and anyone else reading this thread.

Let's not continue.

WRONG
There is more to this than 1's and 0's , have you ever heard of Sampling Rate?
In digital audio, 44,100 Hz is a common sampling frequency: analog audio is recorded by sampling it 44,100 times per second, and then these samples are used to reconstruct the audio signal when playing it back. "Hz" is an abbreviation for hertz, meaning "[cycles, samples] per second", and the alternative form 44.1 kHz
Are your burned CD-R's able to keep a constant 44.1 kHz ? as the player speeds up and slows down the disc to achive this?
What you are trying to convice everyone here with your 1's and 0's theary is a 'DATA CD" an Audio CD is a little more complicated than what you are putting here - Yes you may have a direct copy of data but the written TOC (table of contents)is not copied from the original disc which tells your players clock what timing is used. Your frequentcy range may vary due to poor jitter in the sampling clock , that a Pressed CD is able to control 100% , not by just guessing ,as with your CD-R.
study this so may understand beyond the 1's and 0's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44,100_Hz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitter

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:37 pm

Did you miss the multiple times I said this was a highly simplified explanation? ... Yes, obviously, you did. Regardless, your added confusion is irrelevant to the process at hand.

I'll begin and end with the fact that Accurate Stream has been standard on CD drives for years -- many years in technology terms.

Modern CD drives ... support Accurate Stream, this feature allows a CD drive to precisely locate an area of CD (unlike their counterpart - ordinary CD players), it also puts an end to the requirement for a CD Ripper to jitter correct (that is jump back more than required to re-sync when ripping blocks).


The last time I even recall testing that bothered to mention Accurate Stream had to have been at least six years ago now, and at that time it was noted that all tested drives had it.

I certainly can recall still feeling the need to check to make sure my drive had it in 2002 -- a Plextor. But in fact, I find multiple citations as far back as 2002 reassuring people that "modern drives" are standard with Accurate Stream. Clearly this was already well on its way to becoming a total nonfactor a decade ago.

Thanks for dredging up ancient history to distract and confuse people.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:08 pm

elvissessions wrote:Did you miss the multiple times I said this was a highly simplified explanation? ... Yes, obviously, you did. Regardless, your added confusion is irrelevant to the process at hand.

I'll begin and end with the fact that Accurate Stream has been standard on CD drives for years -- many years in technology terms.

Modern CD drives ... support Accurate Stream, this feature allows a CD drive to precisely locate an area of CD (unlike their counterpart - ordinary CD players), it also puts an end to the requirement for a CD Ripper to jitter correct (that is jump back more than required to re-sync when ripping blocks).


The last time I even recall testing that bothered to mention Accurate Stream had to have been at least six years ago now, and at that time it was noted that all tested drives had it.

I certainly can recall still feeling the need to check to make sure my drive had it in 2002 -- a Plextor. But in fact, I find multiple citations as far back as 2002 reassuring people that "modern drives" are standard with Accurate Stream. Clearly this was already well on its way to becoming a total nonfactor a decade ago.

Thanks for dredging up ancient history to distract and confuse people.

Thats still a matter of debate. "Accurate Stream" is not always 100% Accurate and features "Error Concealment" .
Multitudes of listeners can still distinguish the difference in audio quality of Burned CDs and Pressed CDs via the pepsi challenge.
..take a recess and listen sometime smt124

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:44 pm

You've demonstrated you prefer to live in a world of mythology, not mathematics.

Even so, I have to believe your hopeless wriggling in that last post is merely your inability to admit you slipped up.

I won't waste further time on someone who is willing to sloppily cover up his own mistakes by trying to persuade people that an optical disk is some sort of conjurer's trick that can be magically encoded but can never, ever be decoded -- its mysterious contents forever to remain a secret for the ages.

For folks who have a tighter grasp on the fact that scientists actually have figured out how to track digital data in the 70-plus years since the Atanasoff-Berry Computer was developed, my recommendations stand.

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:21 am

For those intending to undertake extensive ripping.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/conte ... ethodology

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:44 am

elvissessions wrote:You've demonstrated you prefer to live in a world of mythology, not mathematics.

Even so, I have to believe your hopeless wriggling in that last post is merely your inability to admit you slipped up.

I won't waste further time on someone who is willing to sloppily cover up his own mistakes by trying to persuade people that an optical disk is some sort of conjurer's trick that can be magically encoded but can never, ever be decoded -- its mysterious contents forever to remain a secret for the ages.

For folks who have a tighter grasp on the fact that scientists actually have figured out how to track digital data in the 70-plus years since the Atanasoff-Berry Computer was developed, my recommendations stand.


I do appreciate this topic and your posts. But I have always tryed to make clear to those who may think to buy copies or sell or just for personal use not to be mis-led that one is getting exact copies.
Theres no cover-up . If you can't hear the difference , then thats good.
I just prefer quality as a 1st priority .

Re: Advice on copying discs for all who bought Complete Mast

Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:04 pm

Why not just buy a double CD / CD recorder machine (like I did about 12 years ago) and any discs you want to duplicate can be done so easily from one tray to the other, without any quality loss and without downloading programmes etc. EASY!! I'm happy.
:smt006