Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:57 am
Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:22 am
Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:34 am
Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:16 pm
Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 pm
Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:55 pm
Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:40 pm
Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:04 am
Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:07 am
Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:28 pm
elvissessions wrote:First and foremost, I just do NOT believe these discs should be played day to day. I'd asy that about a $60 set -- and I practice what I preach. On a $750 set, no way. Crazy. One disc ruined, what are you going to do? Go buy another box?
Let me keep this real straightforward and simple because I don't want you or anyone else to be overwhelmed.
Dbpoweramp -- or, yes, Exact Audio Copy -- offer a level of truly insane obsessive security and certainty. They are NOT essential. You can accomplish average-guy audio archiving WITHOUT new software.
I will tell you what I do with my collection, and then we'll scale it back to planet earth.
I made a lossless copy using a secure ripper, and then I backed up one copy of my whole collection (not just Elvis here, but everything) for my home, one that I keep at my parents house and one that I put in a safe-deposit box. This was years ago, and hard-drive prices have come down considerably, so I recently consolidated all the lossless collection on a single giant drive, and I took the old set of drives in my home and moved them to a storage unit. So I now have four original copies kept in separate locations miles from each other.
Then I took the entire collection and transcoded it to the mp3 settings I prefer for day-to-day casual listening. I have three copies of that. One that is in use, one backup at my parents' home and one hidden away here at home.
Obsessive? You betcha. In my defense, we're talking about thousands and thousands of discs here -- lots of time and money invested through the years, plus an unbelievably massive undertaking to get them all transferred using secure ripping software (not a full year of nightly work, but close to it -- scarily close to it.)
And, as I've said before, I used dbpoweramp, which I love.
OK, so now let's say you are a real human being with a real life. How can we make this work for you, someone who doesn't want to go through all this rigamarole?
Let's put aside secure ripping for a moment, let's just keep it real simple.
The most important thing is to save these right away before you start scuffing up the discs. Use lossless compression.
It doesn't matter how routine your software is, you should have a lossless option.
Even if you use Windows Media Player. Go into options (hiding under organize in the latest version), find the rip music tab and drag down to Windows Media Audio Lossless.
Even if you use iTunes. Go into preferences ... find the import settings button in the general tab ... drag down to Apple Lossless Encoder.
OK, now, again, we're not worrying about secure ripping, we're adapting this to normal humanoid lifeforms right now.
Once you're using lossless, you can begin ripping your discs just as you always have, using your new settings.
And when you're done, here's what you've accomplished: You have just saved a perfect bit-for-bit copy of whatever your disc drive read off those discs. Most likely it is perfect, and in the small chance of an imperfection, it's highly unlikely the imperfection is audible. For sane people, you're done.
You have just created a smaller but mathematically exact copy of your music. In a very simplistic way, think of it this way. (And, yes, this is very simplistic.) Lossless uses an algorithm to translate the music in a way that it can later perfectly reverse. So, if there are 11 zeroes in a row, it wouldn't write out 11 zeroes, it would encode it to say (11)0 ... Did I mention that this is incredibly simplistic? OK, so now when it comes time to play it back it doesn't play (11)0s, of course. it says: Oh, this is suppozed to be 00000000000, and translates it.
There is NO loss. You have just saved your music in a more portable version that is FUTURE-PROOF. In other words, if you ever decide you want it in another format or another medium, you just transcode it from the originals. That will be just as if you copied them from the original discs.
In the meantime, you can then burn off exact copies of the discs, if that's your preference, or you can rearrange them in your own playlists (which is my preference) and when you replay them, they will sound exactly like the original discs. You could also burn them to an mp3 data disc if you like ... heck, whatever you want.
With a variety of software, dbpoweramp, winamp, i dunno what all, but lots of choices, you can translate them to whatever format you want, even another lossless format. That's a whole other discussion, so let's put it aside for a moment. It's highly unlikely that Apple or Windows is going anywhere soon. Those formats are pretty secure, but even if they do go out of business, there will always be codecs available to translate. I like FLAC, but it DOES NOT MATTER. Lossless is lossless. Get comfortable with it and learn to love it. .. It's smaller and more taggable than CD audio --and it sounds EXACTLY the same ... Why? Because it IS mathematically the same. It is not a lossy format like mp3.
All right, enough about all that. I hope you're convinced.
So now the next step is just to archive it somewhere. My collection is so large, I choose to keep it on hard drives. Obviously, my approach to preventing drive failure is to have multiple redundant copies in a variety of safe places. (I have had excellent experiences with Seagate drives. I have had terrible experiences with other drives. I use Seagate.)
But if you are just archiving a few discs, then keep a copy on your hard drive, but burn off MULTIPLE copies onto CDRS. GOOD GRIEF DO NOT ARCHIVE THEM BY BURNING THEM AS STANDARD CDs, though. No sir ... Makes no sense, then you have to turn around and redo all this again someday. Just drag and drop the folders and files from your hard drive on the CDRS, right? See, that's simple. You've just created data discs. Make more than one copy. It's fun! It's easy! Have a couple of old memory sticks lying around? What the heck, throw the music on there, too. Now sprinkle a few of those copies around the neighborhood. Put 'em at a friend's house, put one at work. Now, see, even if a drive fails, even if there's a fire, you have an easy-to-get-to perfect copy of the files. Don't you feel better. I feel better for you, too.
Now, what about this secure ripping thing I've been babbling about? Yes, that's a bit of an undertaking. It can be very slow because the secure programs read the disc over and over again to suss out errors. But on good, new discs, there are very rarely errors. Very rarely.
You saw my obsessive example in this thread, right? Out of 30 discs, the amount of troubled information was less than 0.0017 second. No way would that be audible even if it were a full 0.0017 second in a row, but in fact, it was in a few little nonsequential bits. This cannot be heard. I want PERFECTION, but I am not mentally stable. I am a sick individual. You are normal and sane. Don't get too worried about it if you don't want to worry about it.
You want poor man/lazy man secure ripping? After you rip the discs, reinsert them one by one. Change the artist name in the disc listings. ... Call 'em, I dunno Elvis Presley take 2 or Elvis Presley safety or Elvis Presley backup. Rip 'em all again lickety-split. Now, if you're drive jumped or your wife kicked the computer or any sort of thing like that happened, you'll have an alternative copy you can go to just in case. Will that detect and address truly problematic disc data? No, it will not. But here's the deal ... it's no worse -- in fact, it's still a lot better -- than just playing the original discs. You listen to the discs now day to day without obsessive secure playback, and you seem to be a happy enough fellow. So there you have it; this is no different.
And if you are using real basic software, and you know you're going to be listening to mp3 day-to-day, well, heck, why not re-rip an mp3 copy right now. ... Just change your rip settings as you did before, and change the artist name to, oh, I dunno, Elvis Presley mp3. There, you have another alternative copy and it's all compressed for you and ready to go.
IF you want to get into the crazy world of secure ripping, then I'm going there with you. We'll talk about that, too. But the main thing I want you to do is PROTECT the music on those discs. Let's get that done, shall we
Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:45 pm
Mike C wrote: How did you get the discs out of the set without scuffing them, even in a minor way. Thanks so much!
Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:04 pm
Frankie Teardrop wrote:Mike C wrote: How did you get the discs out of the set without scuffing them, even in a minor way. Thanks so much!
Well, I just picked the thing up and shook it hard until the discs fell out into a pile on the floor, then I threw 'em all into my car stereo. The one that didn't fall out, I removed with a pair of pliers.
Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:34 pm
Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:10 am
elvissessions wrote:If you take a FLAC copy, pull it out to a WAV file, invert the signal, lay it against the original track, you will have absolute pure silence. This is audible proof of the math underlying this principle. It's a mathematically perfect copy. In fact, it has to be, as it is nothing but an elaborate mathematical equation.
Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:59 pm
Does the FLAC encoding ( ranging from 0 to 8 ) affect in any form the audio quality when decoded back to WAV or is it just similar to... I don't know, a .zip file so to speak?
Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:17 am
Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:02 pm
Claus wrote:Windows Media Player can't play flac files, afaik. You need foobar which will play preactically everything.
Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:14 pm
Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:39 pm
elvissessions wrote:You seem to believe that the following two strings can sound different:
These two strings must sound exactly the same. They must sound the same because they ARE exactly the same.
Debating whether 2+2=4 is a waste of time for us and anyone else reading this thread.
Let's not continue.
Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:37 pm
Modern CD drives ... support Accurate Stream, this feature allows a CD drive to precisely locate an area of CD (unlike their counterpart - ordinary CD players), it also puts an end to the requirement for a CD Ripper to jitter correct (that is jump back more than required to re-sync when ripping blocks).
Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:08 pm
elvissessions wrote:Did you miss the multiple times I said this was a highly simplified explanation? ... Yes, obviously, you did. Regardless, your added confusion is irrelevant to the process at hand.
I'll begin and end with the fact that Accurate Stream has been standard on CD drives for years -- many years in technology terms.Modern CD drives ... support Accurate Stream, this feature allows a CD drive to precisely locate an area of CD (unlike their counterpart - ordinary CD players), it also puts an end to the requirement for a CD Ripper to jitter correct (that is jump back more than required to re-sync when ripping blocks).
The last time I even recall testing that bothered to mention Accurate Stream had to have been at least six years ago now, and at that time it was noted that all tested drives had it.
I certainly can recall still feeling the need to check to make sure my drive had it in 2002 -- a Plextor. But in fact, I find multiple citations as far back as 2002 reassuring people that "modern drives" are standard with Accurate Stream. Clearly this was already well on its way to becoming a total nonfactor a decade ago.
Thanks for dredging up ancient history to distract and confuse people.
Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:44 pm
Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:21 am
Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:44 am
elvissessions wrote:You've demonstrated you prefer to live in a world of mythology, not mathematics.
Even so, I have to believe your hopeless wriggling in that last post is merely your inability to admit you slipped up.
I won't waste further time on someone who is willing to sloppily cover up his own mistakes by trying to persuade people that an optical disk is some sort of conjurer's trick that can be magically encoded but can never, ever be decoded -- its mysterious contents forever to remain a secret for the ages.
For folks who have a tighter grasp on the fact that scientists actually have figured out how to track digital data in the 70-plus years since the Atanasoff-Berry Computer was developed, my recommendations stand.
Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:04 pm
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