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Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:38 pm

brian wrote:
James27 wrote:As a fighter, in a real fight, I think he would have proven to be surprisingly quick and very proud, with loads of self-confidence and without hesitating. Remember Fight Night '73 and remember when he met Muhammad Ali that same time period, he suddenly swept Ali's legs from under him, to show off his quickness. Luckily they had a laugh about it. But you can't imagine any regular guy trying that with quicksilver and tough soon-to-be-world-champion-again Ali.



Do you know for sure the thing with Ali really happened?
It may just be a story


How do we know anything? None of us were there. Certain events, like the Presley-Nixon meeting, is documented with the photos and the FBI files, plus the recollections from the witnesses.

The info about the Presley-Ali meeting and the bit of sparring came from Richard Davis, I'll translate it:

"Ali and Elvis discussed the difference between boxing and karate... who would prevail should there ever be a fight between them. Well, they each had their own ideas, and in the end they stood up and began circling each other. And yes indeed, he (Elvis) kicked Ali's feet from out under him and Muhammads rear end touched the floor! It was dead silent for a moment in that room... until Ali began to laugh and everybody could relax again.".

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:48 pm

Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Competing with Stone was surely not the only motivation, but we see a sharp uptick in Elvis' karate interest around the time of the breakup.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:15 pm

patricia66 wrote:At least I was able to state my impressions of the DVD, described what I saw and where I got my conclusions from. This is more than you did. I even doubt you watched the DVD.


I gave my impression long ago in the original thread about this DVD.
In case you missed it, use the search function.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:39 pm

Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:52 pm

ColinB wrote:
Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.

Fortunately he found some solace by recording My Boy.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:48 pm

midnightx wrote:
ColinB wrote:
Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.

Fortunately he found some solace by recording My Boy.


Do you even like Elvis?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:49 am

It's interesting to see even though Elvis is not as good as he's supposed to bee. I think he has had some medication previous to the demonstrations. He must have been better than this to deserve a black belt. I don't doubt that he deserved it. It's plain to see why this footage couldn't be used for the movie. That's why they wanted to reshoot his part. We know how Elvis could be on the stage in '74 (a bit high on drugs) so why cannot anyone see that he was not himself at these demonstrations?

Regardless of Elvis' shape it's interesting to watch. It's a pity though that it wasn't properly edited. Why show it in this unedited form? You get to see it twice from different angles but sometimes you hardly see anything. And what have they done to the sound? It must be available in better quality. This must be the sound directly from the camera instead of the separate microphone recording. The clips in This Is Elvis had much better sound. A well edited film with proper sound would have been much better but at least we have all the footage now.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:15 am

James27 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
ColinB wrote:
Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.

Fortunately he found some solace by recording My Boy.


Do you even like Elvis?

I love Elvis and dislike My Boy. How does this work, do you have to like My Boy to like Elvis?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:06 am

midnightx wrote:
James27 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
ColinB wrote:
Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.

Fortunately he found some solace by recording My Boy.


Do you even like Elvis?

I love Elvis and dislike My Boy. How does this work, do you have to like My Boy to like Elvis?


It's not that. It seemed like you were mocking the effects those traumas had on him by making a joke of it.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:25 am

I think "my boy" is one of those songs where he probably should never had done it in the studio, so or like
"you gave me a mountain".
He did it live for awhile and that should have been it.
He didn't need to take it into the studio.
I think most of the live versions beat the studio one anyway.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:32 am

ElvisAhlgren wrote: And what have they done to the sound? It must be available in better quality. This must be the sound directly from the camera instead of the separate microphone recording. The clips in This Is Elvis had much better sound.


You are so right, the sound on the karate footage in This is Elvis was infinitely better, but then again 'Kung Fu Fighting' by Carl Douglas was a professional recording. So why wouldn't it sound great? Just kidding you, you probably meant the karate footage in 'Elvis By The Presleys' which did feature some Elvis dialogue.

And I don't get what's wrong with Elvis' recording of My Boy. Sure, it's a melo-dramatic song, but I could mention dozens like that that Elvis recorded.
It's a personal thing, you either like a song or you don't. If you only like Elvis' rock songs, then I can imagine you don't like it too much. Personally, I like it. Not one of my favourites but not that bad. And I really don't love Everything Elvis did in the Seventies.....

Cheers,
Simon

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:09 am

ColinB wrote:
Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.


I doubt Elvis planned to make the movie because of Mike Stone

Lets say Elvis was making the movie to try and show him up

Mike Stone most likely wouldn't of even watched the film let alone be impressed by Elvis on it.
Neither would Priscilla so what would be the point of making the film because of that.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:51 am

brian wrote:Lets say Elvis was making the movie to try and show him up

Mike Stone most likely wouldn't of even watched the film let alone be impressed by Elvis on it.
Neither would Priscilla so what would be the point of making the film because of that.

Elvis' motivation to produce his Karate film was not motivated by Mike Stone.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:04 am

I, for one, truly and honestly believe that any belt Elvis received for his karate training in the later years was simply given to him because of who he was - and that's the way it is.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:20 am

Tony Trout wrote:I, for one, truly and honestly believe that any belt Elvis received for his karate training in the later years was simply given to him because of who he was - and that's the way it is.


absolutely Tony

Elvis' black belts beyond first degree were all honorary.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:24 pm

Tony Trout wrote:I, for one, truly and honestly believe that any belt Elvis received for his karate training in the later years was simply given to him because of who he was - and that's the way it is.


I don't know that. Given his years of practice and the teachers he had he should be capable of more than just a first dan black belt. The performance in this DVD however doesn't provide proof to back up that assumption.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:38 am

Elvis was a real 2. Dan Black Belt - and he got higher ranks, given by his teachers and I think they know why.
I agree that maybe higher ranks up to 4. dan was given by honorary.

What I have seen in the footage is mostly selfdefense-technics from diferrent Karate-styles.

Sequenz Wallace and Red West - Bill use a lot of his famous foot-technics like Mawashi-Geri, Yoko-Geri and Ura-Mawashi-Geri.

Sequenz Elvis and Red West/Big John - Elvis is using his Chi-Power, also well-known by the Shaolin Monks.

Sequenz Elvis and Rick Stanley - Elvis use mostly finger-technics like Empi-uchi, Urakin, Yoko-Geri, Age-Uke, Nukite = 2-finger-technics to face and eyes and Tettsui = closed fist to throat and belly.

Sequenz Big John and small guy in black Gi-jacket - mostly used Shotokan-Style kicks and blocks like Yoko-Geri, Kisami-Zuki, Shoto-Uki, Gyaku-Zuki, Oi-Zuki and Mae-Geri.
No real fight-technics but explanation and demonstration of selfdefense technics - that's was the footage is.

btw: Carman never said in the footage that Elvis was the greatest fighter like someone here in the topic stated. He said: Elvis was the greatest promoter for Marterials Arts and: Wallace was in this time the greatest fighter.
I can't see any insult for the world of Marterial Arts in his statement,

Why some people think that Elvis was drugged?? They believe really that somebody who is drugged could be so fast with his hands like Elvis? You can see 2 or 3 times how fast he was. Or he could use his Chi-power? No. But what is real - he had a few pound too much around his waist.
Why it's so hard to believe and to respect that he was real good in Karate, using elements of different Karate-styles. Where is the problem??

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:54 am

Neverending wrote:Elvis was a real 2. Dan Black Belt - and he got higher ranks, given by his teachers and I think they know why.
I agree that maybe higher ranks up to 4. dan was given by honorary.

What I have seen in the footage is mostly selfdefense-technics from diferrent Karate-styles.

Sequenz Wallace and Red West - Bill use a lot of his famous foot-technics like Mawashi-Geri, Yoko-Geri and Ura-Mawashi-Geri.

Sequenz Elvis and Red West/Big John - Elvis is using his Chi-Power, also well-known by the Shaolin Monks.

Sequenz Elvis and Rick Stanley - Elvis use mostly finger-technics like Empi-uchi, Urakin, Yoko-Geri, Age-Uke, Nukite = 2-finger-technics to face and eyes and Tettsui = closed fist to throat and belly.

Sequenz Big John and small guy in black Gi-jacket - mostly used Shotokan-Style kicks and blocks like Yoko-Geri, Kisami-Zuki, Shoto-Uki, Gyaku-Zuki, Oi-Zuki and Mae-Geri.
No real fight-technics but explanation and demonstration of selfdefense technics - that's was the footage is.

btw: Carman never said in the footage that Elvis was the greatest fighter like someone here in the topic stated. He said: Elvis was the greatest promoter for Marterials Arts and: Wallace was in this time the greatest fighter.
I can't see any insult for the world of Marterial Arts in his statement,

Why some people think that Elvis was drugged?? They believe really that somebody who is drugged could be so fast with his hands like Elvis? You can see 2 or 3 times how fast he was. Or he could use his Chi-power? No. But what is real - he had a few pound too much around his waist.
Why it's so hard to believe and to respect that he was real good in Karate, using elements of different Karate-styles. Where is the problem??


Thanks for the description of the different techniques, that was very impressive.

What is your opinion of Bruce Lee? As a fighter, based on what he displayed in his movies and tv episodes.
Do you consider him beatable in a one-to-one combat, or not ?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Ask for myself - I'm a great fan of Bruce Lee - it shouldn't be at all surprised...
A difficult question James27 - I think everybody will find one day his master, but because he died so young he will be a legend forever...So it's hard to answer but I give you my opinion.
Bruce Lee developed his own style of Karate, based on his Gung Fu (the cantonese pronunciation, Kung Fu is mandarin) and named it Jeet Kune Do.
If he lived longer so maybe someone could beat him - but to be honest - I really doubt it. What I can imagine is that it would be a tough fight between Bruce Lee and Jet Li. In my mind only one person could beat him really: Hank Slomanski (but both of them had to be in a younger age around 30 years). That's all what I can say .

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:33 pm

Neverending wrote:Elvis was a real 2. Dan Black Belt - and he got higher ranks, given by his teachers and I think they know why.
I agree that maybe higher ranks up to 4. dan was given by honorary.

What I have seen in the footage is mostly selfdefense-technics from diferrent Karate-styles.

Sequenz Wallace and Red West - Bill use a lot of his famous foot-technics like Mawashi-Geri, Yoko-Geri and Ura-Mawashi-Geri.

Sequenz Elvis and Red West/Big John - Elvis is using his Chi-Power, also well-known by the Shaolin Monks.

Sequenz Elvis and Rick Stanley - Elvis use mostly finger-technics like Empi-uchi, Urakin, Yoko-Geri, Age-Uke, Nukite = 2-finger-technics to face and eyes and Tettsui = closed fist to throat and belly.

Sequenz Big John and small guy in black Gi-jacket - mostly used Shotokan-Style kicks and blocks like Yoko-Geri, Kisami-Zuki, Shoto-Uki, Gyaku-Zuki, Oi-Zuki and Mae-Geri.
No real fight-technics but explanation and demonstration of selfdefense technics - that's was the footage is.

btw: Carman never said in the footage that Elvis was the greatest fighter like someone here in the topic stated. He said: Elvis was the greatest promoter for Marterials Arts and: Wallace was in this time the greatest fighter.
I can't see any insult for the world of Marterial Arts in his statement,

Why some people think that Elvis was drugged?? They believe really that somebody who is drugged could be so fast with his hands like Elvis? You can see 2 or 3 times how fast he was. Or he could use his Chi-power? No. But what is real - he had a few pound too much around his waist.
Why it's so hard to believe and to respect that he was real good in Karate, using elements of different Karate-styles. Where is the problem??


Great post, Neverending :smt001 .

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:05 pm

Neverending wrote:Ask for myself - I'm a great fan of Bruce Lee - it shouldn't be at all surprised...
A difficult question James27 - I think everybody will find one day his master, but because he died so young he will be a legend forever...So it's hard to answer but I give you my opinion.
Bruce Lee developed his own style of Karate, based on his Gung Fu (the cantonese pronunciation, Kung Fu is mandarin) and named it Jeet Kune Do.
If he lived longer so maybe someone could beat him - but to be honest - I really doubt it. What I can imagine is that it would be a tough fight between Bruce Lee and Jet Li. In my mind only one person could beat him really: Hank Slomanski (but both of them had to be in a younger age around 30 years). That's all what I can say .


Interesting, thank you! I think Bruce pushed the envelope so considently and independently throughout his career, on both a a physical and philosophical level, and he developed himself on every terrain possible, increasing his speed, strength, endurance, always searching for ways to do things better, more efficient. He was constantly thinking about his art and drawing positions and movements.

He also was open to incorporate other fighting techniques (from boxing for instance, and particularly the footwork from Muhammad Ali) if they were an advantage to him. He was not limited to any style or way of thinking (dogma), and when you couple that to an incredible technique and perfect physicality, as well as a great self-confidence and pride, he was a hard man to beat. He had an aura of a superhuman around him and he still has.

But as you know, nobody is perfect every day, all the time, so there might have been a chance of someone like Jet Li beating him. But it would be one hell of a fast-moving match!

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:36 pm

James27 wrote:
Interesting, thank you! I think Bruce pushed the envelope so considently and independently throughout his career, on both a a physical and philosophical level, and he developed himself on every terrain possible, increasing his speed, strength, endurance, always searching for ways to do things better, more efficient. He was constantly thinking about his art and drawing positions and movements.

He also was open to incorporate other fighting techniques (from boxing for instance, and particularly the footwork from Muhammad Ali) if they were an advantage to him. He was not limited to any style or way of thinking (dogma), and when you couple that to an incredible technique and perfect physicality, as well as a great self-confidence and pride, he was a hard man to beat. He had an aura of a superhuman around him and he still has.

But as you know, nobody is perfect every day, all the time, so there might have been a chance of someone like Jet Li beating him. But it would be one hell of a fast-moving match!


Absolutely! Boy, what would I give for if I could see a fight between Bruce and Jet Li.
Like Elvis he was and is a legend till today and with all the same rumors, speculation and more, like he was killed by the chinese mafia and others. The truth is simple: he took a painkiller that had into an ingredient that causes a swelling of the fluid on the brain, resulting in a coma and death.

But it seems that hereos are not permitted to die by natural causes. The legends has to live on....
Last edited by Neverending on Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:40 pm

patricia66 wrote:
Great post, Neverending :smt001 .


Thanks Patricia 66 for your comment.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:31 pm

James27 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
James27 wrote:
midnightx wrote:
ColinB wrote:
Vince Everett wrote:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I agree excellent post here.
But as far back as Elvis' army days he was practicing karate, so i don't think it was all about trying to out do Mike Stone.


Certainly Priscilla leaving [and taking Lisa Marie, too] was as big a blow to him as losing his mother.

Elvisjock is right, he never fully shook off the effects of this trauma.

Fortunately he found some solace by recording My Boy.


Do you even like Elvis?

I love Elvis and dislike My Boy. How does this work, do you have to like My Boy to like Elvis?


It's not that. It seemed like you were mocking the effects those traumas had on him by making a joke of it.

Hey, some people are big on post counts, and repetitive nonsense is the only way they can keep them up.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:52 pm

a lot of interesting opinions and posts in this thread. speaking from my view of the world, this is one of the better:
elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. ...[etc.]
sounds like a plausible analysis to me.
compliments, elvisjock!