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Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:24 pm

patricia66 wrote:
KempoDick wrote:
Neverending wrote:
KempoDick wrote:I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.


How I wrote in my answer to The Welz:

You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.
But if you can do it in a better way - good for you.


It seems I'm talking to a real expert here, so I'd better keep my mouth shut.


In fact you are man - and it for sure would be better to keep your mouth shut because Neverending knows the subject. Besides your comment is nothing more than an insult directed to Wayne Carman and Elvis. You do not care enough to give any specifics why Elvis demonstration is substandard. That says it all :roll: .


Yet another expert on the subject.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:28 pm

buddy holly wrote:
Neverending wrote:You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.


Two different things indeed but still you have to do them right.


And THAT's the story about the nail and the head!

Hormat.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:36 pm

Neverending wrote:One point in your post is correct: the importances of degrees in our modern times And you know why? Because most of the students are too soft.Today nearly nobody could take such a hard training under such famous constructors like Slomansi or of some of the great japanese Masters. If you got in sparring with a hard chop on somebodys body, they fall yammering on the ground - except real Karatekas who are in professional full contact kumite's.

This fighters are people who study the sport since their childhood and you can believe me: Whenever you practise real Karate over decades, you never loose your skills - even if you are an old man with little training.


Ah the good old days. Were you there?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:52 pm

KempoDick wrote:
Neverending wrote:
KempoDick wrote:I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.


How I wrote in my answer to The Welz:

You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.
But if you can do it in a better way - good for you.


It seems I'm talking to a real expert here, so I'd better keep my mouth shut.


Somehow I expect Neverending to write within minutes that our man was in fact the best Karataka in the world. Now that would be a statement from this great magnificent and allknowing expert!

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:25 pm

Elvis was not only the King Of Entertainment, he was also one of the greates Karate fighters in the world, an extremely skilled actor and the best singer of all time. Besides that he was a great businessman and was blessed to have the best manager in the world. HE WILL ALWAYS BE THE KING - NO MATTER WHAT.*


*if you really believe sh*t like this you'll need a few reality lessons.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:46 pm

What kind of childish answers... :roll:
Are there no more meanings with substance? Or maybe some user are not able to discuss in a serious way facts?

I never said that Elvis is the best Karateka of the world, nor he is the best singer or the best actor. So, what kind of B.S. talking a few here? But it seems that some have real difficulties to accept that Elvis was a real Karateka and I ask myself question why?
Anybody of these who like to critizise, they have the experience of a fight in a world championship? And I mean full contact - not just doing some Karate stuff or watching films of Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, Jet Li and others. If not, please keep qiet.

The Welz: Don't worry - I'm living in reality. But whenever you have no more arguments, starts to insult.
I think this is your realitiy not mine. And to the contrary I know what I'm talking of.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:03 pm

@ Neverending:

You're an expert on Karate and stuff like that, aren't you? You've been a third-placed fighter on a world-championship tournament?
So instead of puffing up yourself, please tell us your real name and let us check your sayings.

Otherwise people will have no reason to believe your story without a proof.
Btw you can be assured that Kempodick always knows what he's talking about.

Joern

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:57 pm

Little Darlin wrote:I have it but haven't watched it yet so can't comment on it.....but what I will comment on is the negativity people have towards almost everything Elvis did. Why are you here on this board if he let you down so badly? It's such a pity people can't see the good things he left behind instead of whining on about the not so good.

Karate was a very special part of Elvis Presley. It was something he enjoyed so why don't you just enjoy the fact that Kang Rhee is on record as saying Elvis deserved the accolades in Karate he got.



L.D., you are right on. A casual visitor to this board might easily come away wondering what's so enduring about Elvis, based on the day-to-day criticism and negativity.

As celebrities go, the public knows more about Elvis' personal struggles than perhaps anyone. Yet, for as badly as his life ended, there are years and years of superlatives.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:44 am

I do know Elvis' dedication and passion for Karate was for real, that he was phsyically able to perform it well up to the early 70s, judging from his movies and his live performances (including amateur footage) and I have a strong feeling about Elvis that he could get very tough and very mad when put to the test.

As a fighter, in a real fight, I think he would have proven to be surprisingly quick and very proud, with loads of self-confidence and without hesitating. Remember Fight Night '73 and remember when he met Muhammad Ali that same time period, he suddenly swept Ali's legs from under him, to show off his quickness. Luckily they had a laugh about it. But you can't imagine any regular guy trying that with quicksilver and tough soon-to-be-world-champion-again Ali.

Of course Elvis couldn't prevail over championship calibre fighters (full contact), but still I think he had serious enough skills that would earn him the black belt. I personally don't have personal experience with Karate but I did practice Jiu-Jitsu for some years, although I didn't make it to black belt.

The advantage of this art of self-defence is its great adaptability, for instance when faced with a Karateka, you can use wrestling or choking techniques, when faced with a Judoka it can be more appropriate to use kicks for example. Use is also made of ("street") techniques that other fighting systems might deem unsportmanslike. Jiu-Jitsu will use those techniques that the adversary might be least familiar with, least on safe ground with. How you react as a Jiujitsuoka is based on the attack of your opponent from all possible positions and from different fighting disciplines. You have to be creative and choose wisely, unpredictably and quickly out of the different approaches in every situation.
Which requires a lot of practice and concentration !

You never really loose the basics with age. You loose quickness, strength, flexibility, for sure, but you never loose the physical toughness, the determination, the survival techniques and grabbing & choking techniques, arm and leg locks, when being put under pressure. A good fighter is a fighter whose fights don't last long and who uses the least amount of aggression to reach his goal, neutralizing your opponent (not destroying him).

I had to give it up because of serious heart problems years ago, but in my heart (oh irony!) I still try to live and act by the same basic principles.

I think Elvis' physical health declined so much during 1975-1976-1977, that he wasn't physically comfortable anymore with demanding work-outs and he left it altogether, only performing brief snippets of his technique on stage from 1974 onwards.

Jiu-Jitsu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suXxYE3L ... r_embedded

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:14 am

Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:21 am

James27 wrote:As a fighter, in a real fight, I think he would have proven to be surprisingly quick and very proud, with loads of self-confidence and without hesitating. Remember Fight Night '73 and remember when he met Muhammad Ali that same time period, he suddenly swept Ali's legs from under him, to show off his quickness. Luckily they had a laugh about it. But you can't imagine any regular guy trying that with quicksilver and tough soon-to-be-world-champion-again Ali.



Do you know for sure the thing with Ali really happened?
It may just be a story

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:23 am

elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


oh come on

You really believe Elvis' desire to make a karate documentary was to try and show Mike Stone

I think he just wanted to make a film about Karate and that Mike Stone had nothing to do with it.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:00 pm

elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.


I think this is the best analyses I have read so far... :!:

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:11 pm

brian wrote:You really believe Elvis' desire to make a karate documentary was to try and show Mike Stone
I think he just wanted to make a film about Karate and that Mike Stone had nothing to do with it.


Too bad Brain but I do think Elvisjock is not far from the truth. Ofcourse it is speculation and no-one of us knows really what happened but it does make sense. He did not want to make just a film about karata but about Elvis being the great fighter. From the booklet of the Gladiator DVD comes the 'script' of the einding of the picture: "On a remote hill, the camera is on a close up of Elvis as he stands in a fighting stance..." (A Heroic picture follows which is almost religious with Elvis doing The Lords Prayer at the end).

Somehow I am very happy this movie never was finished. I think it would be a rediculous film from an ego who lost touch with reality! (But still made great music!)

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:43 pm

Alexander wrote:
brian wrote:You really believe Elvis' desire to make a karate documentary was to try and show Mike Stone
I think he just wanted to make a film about Karate and that Mike Stone had nothing to do with it.


Too bad Brain but I do think Elvisjock is not far from the truth. Ofcourse it is speculation and no-one of us knows really what happened but it does make sense. He did not want to make just a film about karata but about Elvis being the great fighter. From the booklet of the Gladiator DVD comes the 'script' of the einding of the picture: "On a remote hill, the camera is on a close up of Elvis as he stands in a fighting stance..." (A Heroic picture follows which is almost religious with Elvis doing The Lords Prayer at the end).



That doesn't mean he was doing this movie because of Stone
He was into Karate for years before Stone came along that was just his idea for a movie.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:59 pm

brian wrote:[That doesn't mean he was doing this movie because of Stone
He was into Karate for years before Stone came along that was just his idea for a movie.


Of course no one can proove it is because of Stone and we all know that Elvis was a sincere karate hobbyist since 1958. But I certainly think that Elvisjock is right: altogether the Gladioator-project was just an Ego-thing. And I do think the Stone-connection may come close to the truth. But hey, my assumption is as good as yours.

Did anyone read the original text of the script concerning the ending of the film (written by the man himself, I believe?) that is shown on the last page of the booklet: does anyone on this forum regret this film was not made?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:21 pm

Joern wrote:@ Neverending:

You're an expert on Karate and stuff like that, aren't you? You've been a third-placed fighter on a world-championship tournament?
So instead of puffing up yourself, please tell us your real name and let us check your sayings.

Otherwise people will have no reason to believe your story without a proof.
Btw you can be assured that Kempodick always knows what he's talking about.

Joern


There is no need to puffing up myself. You stated that Kempodick knows what he's talking about. Same me. I know very well what I'm talking about too. And why I should tell my name? Change this the facts or knowledge about Karate? No. C'mon guys,it makes no sense to tell you about a World Championship long ago when I was 20 years old, but still practicising the sport.

Believe it or not - it's up to you.
Last edited by Neverending on Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:28 pm

James27 wrote:I do know Elvis' dedication and passion for Karate was for real, that he was phsyically able to perform it well up to the early 70s, judging from his movies and his live performances (including amateur footage) and I have a strong feeling about Elvis that he could get very tough and very mad when put to the test.

As a fighter, in a real fight, I think he would have proven to be surprisingly quick and very proud, with loads of self-confidence and without hesitating. Remember Fight Night '73 and remember when he met Muhammad Ali that same time period, he suddenly swept Ali's legs from under him, to show off his quickness. Luckily they had a laugh about it. But you can't imagine any regular guy trying that with quicksilver and tough soon-to-be-world-champion-again Ali.

Of course Elvis couldn't prevail over championship calibre fighters (full contact), but still I think he had serious enough skills that would earn him the black belt. I personally don't have personal experience with Karate but I did practice Jiu-Jitsu for some years, although I didn't make it to black belt.

The advantage of this art of self-defence is its great adaptability, for instance when faced with a Karateka, you can use wrestling or choking techniques, when faced with a Judoka it can be more appropriate to use kicks for example. Use is also made of ("street") techniques that other fighting systems might deem unsportmanslike. Jiu-Jitsu will use those techniques that the adversary might be least familiar with, least on safe ground with. How you react as a Jiujitsuoka is based on the attack of your opponent from all possible positions and from different fighting disciplines. You have to be creative and choose wisely, unpredictably and quickly out of the different approaches in every situation.
Which requires a lot of practice and concentration !

You never really loose the basics with age. You loose quickness, strength, flexibility, for sure, but you never loose the physical toughness, the determination, the survival techniques and grabbing & choking techniques, arm and leg locks, when being put under pressure. A good fighter is a fighter whose fights don't last long and who uses the least amount of aggression to reach his goal, neutralizing your opponent (not destroying him).

I had to give it up because of serious heart problems years ago, but in my heart (oh irony!) I still try to live and act by the same basic principles.

I think Elvis' physical health declined so much during 1975-1976-1977, that he wasn't physically comfortable anymore with demanding work-outs and he left it altogether, only performing brief snippets of his technique on stage from 1974 onwards.

Jiu-Jitsu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suXxYE3L ... r_embedded



Great post James 27 - I agree totally!

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:21 pm

The Welz wrote:Elvis was not only the King Of Entertainment, he was also one of the greates Karate fighters in the world, an extremely skilled actor and the best singer of all time. Besides that he was a great businessman and was blessed to have the best manager in the world. HE WILL ALWAYS BE THE KING - NO MATTER WHAT.*


*if you really believe sh*t like this you'll need a few reality lessons.


And as always you are the right one to give us those lessons :roll: . You are so full of yourself - and a very good example for the negativity Elvisjock and others refered to in their postings. Unfortunately, there are more of your kind that like to think of themselves of being the only true fans because they do emphasize Elvis' human weaknesses (real ones and those they simply believe in) every time they have a chance. It's childish, why don't you just grow up?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:21 pm

Neverending wrote:
James27 wrote:I do know Elvis' dedication and passion for Karate was for real, that he was phsyically able to perform it well up to the early 70s, judging from his movies and his live performances (including amateur footage) and I have a strong feeling about Elvis that he could get very tough and very mad when put to the test.

As a fighter, in a real fight, I think he would have proven to be surprisingly quick and very proud, with loads of self-confidence and without hesitating. Remember Fight Night '73 and remember when he met Muhammad Ali that same time period, he suddenly swept Ali's legs from under him, to show off his quickness. Luckily they had a laugh about it. But you can't imagine any regular guy trying that with quicksilver and tough soon-to-be-world-champion-again Ali.

Of course Elvis couldn't prevail over championship calibre fighters (full contact), but still I think he had serious enough skills that would earn him the black belt. I personally don't have personal experience with Karate but I did practice Jiu-Jitsu for some years, although I didn't make it to black belt.

The advantage of this art of self-defence is its great adaptability, for instance when faced with a Karateka, you can use wrestling or choking techniques, when faced with a Judoka it can be more appropriate to use kicks for example. Use is also made of ("street") techniques that other fighting systems might deem unsportmanslike. Jiu-Jitsu will use those techniques that the adversary might be least familiar with, least on safe ground with. How you react as a Jiujitsuoka is based on the attack of your opponent from all possible positions and from different fighting disciplines. You have to be creative and choose wisely, unpredictably and quickly out of the different approaches in every situation.
Which requires a lot of practice and concentration !

You never really loose the basics with age. You loose quickness, strength, flexibility, for sure, but you never loose the physical toughness, the determination, the survival techniques and grabbing & choking techniques, arm and leg locks, when being put under pressure. A good fighter is a fighter whose fights don't last long and who uses the least amount of aggression to reach his goal, neutralizing your opponent (not destroying him).

I had to give it up because of serious heart problems years ago, but in my heart (oh irony!) I still try to live and act by the same basic principles.

I think Elvis' physical health declined so much during 1975-1976-1977, that he wasn't physically comfortable anymore with demanding work-outs and he left it altogether, only performing brief snippets of his technique on stage from 1974 onwards.

Jiu-Jitsu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suXxYE3L ... r_embedded



Great post James 27 - I agree totally!


Yes, indeed!

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:24 pm

KempoDick wrote:
patricia66 wrote:
KempoDick wrote:
Neverending wrote:
KempoDick wrote:I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.


How I wrote in my answer to The Welz:

You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.
But if you can do it in a better way - good for you.


It seems I'm talking to a real expert here, so I'd better keep my mouth shut.


In fact you are man - and it for sure would be better to keep your mouth shut because Neverending knows the subject. Besides your comment is nothing more than an insult directed to Wayne Carman and Elvis. You do not care enough to give any specifics why Elvis demonstration is substandard. That says it all :roll: .


Yet another expert on the subject.


At least I was able to state my impressions of the DVD, described what I saw and where I got my conclusions from. This is more than you did. I even doubt you watched the DVD.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:28 pm

patricia66 wrote:At least I was able to state my impressions of the DVD, described what I saw and where I got my conclusions from. This is more than you did. I even doubt you watched the DVD.


Like we all did. And some of us know little about the subject Karate (me for example) and argue from impressions and common sense (I guess you are doing the same), pretend to know much about the matter, or really know (Kempodick). So it is an endless saga. But isn't there anyone interested in how the world would look to Elvis if he did finished the Gladiotors project and the movie finished like the screenplay part in the booklet? I think it would be an embarassing project with a far more fatal blow for his image than the whole Elvis What Happened? book. Every serious journalistic publication would have ridiculed such an ending - and honestly... I seldomly witnessed a more obvious display of bad taste and magnitude than on this little piece of paper in the booklet of Gladiators. To me it says: Elvis lost touch with reality completely but I guess some of you disagree and call it an eding of a potential masterpiece...

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:20 pm

elvisjock wrote:Elvis was mentally and mortally wounded when he lost his wife to Mike Stone. Our beloved man-child was not equipped to deal with this very rare and severe blow to his ego. Mike was a karate expert and champion. Elvis set out to "show him," and become an even bigger expert and champion. The karate movie would be Elvis' vehicle. The competition peaked, in Elvis' mind, during the August, 1974 Vegas engagement, when he seemed to care more about martial arts than singing.

Reality hit in late 1974, when the movie was scrapped, Elvis' 40th birthday loomed, and he fell into a deep depression from which he never fully recovered.



GREAT POST...........

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:43 pm

Nice to have for the footage, there are new shots , no big deal . Since they where in such a hurry they didn't use the original audio..... guess EPE didn't wanted to spent too much. Mr. Sheriff Hanna has it for a long, long time now and in better quality...

The footage itself should have been used for the original purpose , The documentary & as bonus the uncut footage.
And cut in a modern style, plenty samples from discovery TV....

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:47 pm

patricia66 wrote:At least I was able to state my impressions of the DVD, described what I saw and where I got my conclusions from. This is more than you did. I even doubt you watched the DVD.


Laughable.