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Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:42 pm

patricia66 wrote:
TONY wrote:Approximately how many minutes of previously unseen footage is there in this new DVD? Discount any stuff used in "This is Elvis" or "Elvis by The Presleys".


With Elvis in the picture? Approximately 5 to 8 minutes I would say. Of course there is more previously unreleased footage showing the other Gladiators.

It's nice to have the footage all in one place but the whole Gladiators project was obviously at the very start. You really don't get a good idea how the finished documentary was supposed to be by seeing the footage. Besides it is a pity that you can't really hear Elvis talking in the background, I mean you hear him but not distinctively.


5 to 8 minutes? Elvis is in the picture for roughly 30 minutes. Since there was 2.5 minutes used in This is Elvis and about 3.5 minutes in Elvis by The Presleys and about 1 minute in George Klein's Memories of Elvis there's roughly 23 minutes of new Elvis footage. Albeit filmed with 2 cameras. There's still a lot of new footage.
What a lot of fans don't grasp is that it is professional footage of our man in 1974, a year we don't anything else from. If he'd been shooting pool instead of practicing karate it would have been worthwile to watch.
And for those that are only interested in the music and not Elvis' personal life, indeed, don't participate in a topic like this. Don't try to ruin the enjoyment that a lot of fans DO get from this DVD.

And Ekenee, whether 15 dollars for about 23 minutes of professional Elvis footage is worth the price, well, that's for you to decide. I bought 3 minutes of this new footage in 1999 from Wayne Carman directly and I paid 500 dollars for it, to me that was worth every cent, but hey to each its own.
What makes one fan salivate doesn't do jack sh*t to another fan, I myself wouldn't pay 10 bucks for any new Sun book or Sun cd box or whatever.....
I would however dig deep for any 'new' Seventies songs or new photos/footage.

Cheers,
Simon

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:56 pm

Alexander wrote:
All I said was that Gladiator-film did not convince me at all and that I do not believe he is more that an enthousiastic amateur. Sice we are not living in North Korea and we are not talking about The Great Leader I guess it is permitted to question Elvis matters on this forum. From all I have read and seen I get a strong impression that Elvis was little more than a hobbyist. Periode. And with all the yesman around and Elvis tossing away cars and jewellery it is not even that weird to suggest that somebody just was anxious to do Mr. Superstar a favor. And if it was like that: I like Elvis for his music. For me, his Karate can be stolen as can the boring Gladiator DVD. Next time, all the unreleased footage from Elvis on Tour please! 8)


Why you take offence to my post? Do you feel the shoe fits you? Right, you can post your opinion, but it is obviously you don't have any idea of what means Karate. And without no understanding of Marterial Arts you feel you can judge Elvis's Karate skills? You are an "expert" or Karateka to do so? Sorry but I have my doubts.
Do you have only a little knowledge of his constructors and their ranks and names in the world of Marterials Arts? Do you think that a man like Henry "Hank" Slomanski was just a "Yes-man" or you know who he was? I doubt it again.
At first - he never lost a match! He was, together with Master's Yamaguchi and Chitose the 3rd. highest ranking belt in the world. He owned the Silver Star, Bronze Star,Combat Infantryman Badge,Korean Service Medal with 6 Battle stars, Purple Heart with 2 oak leaf clusters,master parachutist badge,5 good conduct medals, 6 letters of appreciation,and numerous other medals as well. He was a Killer.

That's you called a "Yes-Man". Sorry but I have to laugh.

His constructor M. Saur, a 4rd. Black Belt, was the main instructor that free sparred with Elvis under Slomanski's direction. Saur treated low ranking belts just like they were dirt under his feet. Remember: Elvis at this time was just a brown belt.
Believe your really that this kind of man cares about who and whatever Elvis was? :roll:

You got a wrong but not a strong impression and maybe you're not reading the right informations. So better you keep your mouth before you make a fool of yourself.

The thread is about Elvis Karate-footage and this piece shows just demonstration of different blocks of self-denfense. It is not a fight or competition.
It has nothing to do with Elvis generosity or something else. So better you enjoy his music, watch his Karate based moves on stage than judge his Karate skills.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:31 pm

He might now have been the best karate guy....But have you ever seen a cooler guy in a karate suit than Elvis? =D with the E.P on the back! Not only the king of music but king of fashion too. =D

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:46 pm

Simon1 wrote:
What a lot of fans don't grasp is that it is professional footage of our man in 1974, a year we don't anything else from. If he'd been shooting pool instead of practicing karate it would have been worthwile to watch.
And for those that are only interested in the music and not Elvis' personal life, indeed, don't participate in a topic like this. Don't try to ruin the enjoyment that a lot of fans DO get from this DVD.

And Ekenee, whether 15 dollars for about 23 minutes of professional Elvis footage is worth the price, well, that's for you to decide. I bought 3 minutes of this new footage in 1999 from Wayne Carman directly and I paid 500 dollars for it, to me that was worth every cent, but hey to each its own.
What makes one fan salivate doesn't do jack sh*t to another fan, I myself wouldn't pay 10 bucks for any new Sun book or Sun cd box or whatever.....
I would however dig deep for any 'new' Seventies songs or new photos/footage.

Cheers,
Simon



Rock on Simon! I will find time to watch it now.....am dying to see the new footage.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:51 pm

Thanks everyone for the information.

Now I am wondering if Bruce Lee was a real black belt or just a hobbyist. :wink:

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:31 pm

Simon1 wrote:
patricia66 wrote:
TONY wrote:Approximately how many minutes of previously unseen footage is there in this new DVD? Discount any stuff used in "This is Elvis" or "Elvis by The Presleys".


With Elvis in the picture? Approximately 5 to 8 minutes I would say. Of course there is more previously unreleased footage showing the other Gladiators.

It's nice to have the footage all in one place but the whole Gladiators project was obviously at the very start. You really don't get a good idea how the finished documentary was supposed to be by seeing the footage. Besides it is a pity that you can't really hear Elvis talking in the background, I mean you hear him but not distinctively.


5 to 8 minutes? Elvis is in the picture for roughly 30 minutes. Since there was 2.5 minutes used in This is Elvis and about 3.5 minutes in Elvis by The Presleys and about 1 minute in George Klein's Memories of Elvis there's roughly 23 minutes of new Elvis footage. Albeit filmed with 2 cameras. There's still a lot of new footage.
What a lot of fans don't grasp is that it is professional footage of our man in 1974, a year we don't anything else from. If he'd been shooting pool instead of practicing karate it would have been worthwile to watch.
And for those that are only interested in the music and not Elvis' personal life, indeed, don't participate in a topic like this. Don't try to ruin the enjoyment that a lot of fans DO get from this DVD.

And Ekenee, whether 15 dollars for about 23 minutes of professional Elvis footage is worth the price, well, that's for you to decide. I bought 3 minutes of this new footage in 1999 from Wayne Carman directly and I paid 500 dollars for it, to me that was worth every cent, but hey to each its own.
What makes one fan salivate doesn't do jack sh*t to another fan, I myself wouldn't pay 10 bucks for any new Sun book or Sun cd box or whatever.....
I would however dig deep for any 'new' Seventies songs or new photos/footage.

Cheers,
Simon


Sorry, I didn't count the minutes, so it may be a few more. But you have to take into account that you have the same scene over again filmed from different camera angles. Okay, you see Elvis then - sometimes only his back - and sometimes you see him back in the mirror... if you count that. Overall, it is not that much more footage. Nevertheless, I liked it for the reasons I stated above.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:36 pm

ekenee wrote:Thanks everyone for the information.

Now I am wondering if Bruce Lee was a real black belt or just a hobbyist. :wink:


Ehhh, who is Bruce Lee :wink: ?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:28 am

Neverending wrote:What the heck about talking some people here? And what means "a expert who understand a lot of Karate"?

Elvis was a real Black Belt second Dan (degree) in Karate.

Are you sure about that?

Neverending wrote:I don't understand why people always have to open their mouth without no knowledge, just talking B.S.
..............
Believe me: Elvis was a real Karateka and I know very well of what I speak! To criticize is very easy and how you can judge abilities of a person or his skills if somebody not doing Karate over years? Elvis was very fast with his hands but slower with his feet.
And if there is any doubt - I think that somebody who was third placed in a Karate Worldchampionship can judge what kind of Karateka Elvis was!

I never understand that in the world of Marterial Arts everybody know that Elvs was a real Black belt - but his own fans doubt this but criticize the man. :roll:

I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:02 am

KempoDick wrote:Both are an insult to the Martial Arts ...

I disagree, if only because Presley's dedication to, and love for, the art inspired many people. One must take this into account.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:11 am

No, I don't think so.

If someone does a documentary about Karate and wants to show some things, he should be able to do it well. Even if that someone is Elvis Presley.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:26 am

I think Elvis has shown enough talent and dedication to earn a black belt, but not the Dans

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:04 am

I'm glad Elvis was fond of martial arts and am very happy to have this DVD. I like to believe Elvis was a decent martial artist but this DVD is not proving it. Elvis is clearly not in shape in the footage shown on this DVD. That doesn't bother me though. The love for the art is far more important than your skill.

It's very disturbing however to see Elvis promote Bill Wallace. No way Elvis is the senior of Bill Wallace in martial arts skill so it's not right Elvis is given the honour to promote Bill Wallace. If you can't see that I suppose you don't know martial arts and can only retell stories found on the internet.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:17 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
KempoDick wrote:Both are an insult to the Martial Arts ...

I disagree, if only because Presley's dedication to, and love for, the art inspired many people. One must take this into account.


I agree that Elvis did a lot for the Martial Art, no doubt about that.
I also believe that Elvis was a very good Martial Artist, at least untill 1971.

But what you see on this DVD is pure horror, this DVD should have a PG18 stamp on it.
It is one of the worst performances I've seen from a high degree black belt.
Carman should be degraded to a green belt for talking such rubbish.

This time you should trust KempoDick :smt006

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:18 am

rickeap wrote:I think Elvis has shown enough talent and dedication to earn a black belt, but not the Dans


Statement of the year! :smt017

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:25 am

buddy holly wrote:The love for the art is far more important than your skill.


I agree on that, but not if a student asks/pays for his promotion. At that point you loose
what the Martial Arts are about.
Let me be clear that this is not only Elvis' fault, Kang Rhee made a mistake here too!
It seems that Kang Rhee got some severe problems because he promoted Elvis his 7th degree.

I 100% agree to the rest of your posting though.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:36 am

KempoDick wrote:
buddy holly wrote:The love for the art is far more important than your skill.


I agree on that, but not if a student asks/pays for his promotion. At that point you loose
what the Martial Arts are about.


True. The importance of degrees is overrated anyhow. It's nice for kids to train towards a promotion and get something to show off. An adult should be beyond such behaviour. After all a degree is just an achievement at some point in time. You can really earn a black belt and still wear it twenty years later without having trained at all in between. What's the meaning of that black belt then? Then it's just a souvenir of better times long gone.

If you have to prove your skills just prove them, don't just show a belt and/or a certificate. Better yet not to show off and just enjoy your training with your buddies.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:17 pm

The Welz wrote:No, I don't think so.

If someone does a documentary about Karate and wants to show some things, he should be able to do it well. Even if that someone is Elvis Presley.


You have to realise that Elvis wants to do a documentary as a gift to the world of Marterial Arts. That not means he want to do himself. He gave order and money to George Waite, an acknowleged director and also a Black Belt to do such a documentation.
First part of this documentation is the dvd "The New Gladiators" and shows the US-National team in different Kumites (contests) in Europa. The second part, the footage of the dvd in this topic was filmed in Elvis own Karateschool, the Tennessee Karate Institut, managed from Bill Wallace and Red West. But this docu was never finished because of Elvis sudden death - till after 30 years by Rising Sun Productions and G. Waite.

It seems as a lot of people don't understand the differenz between demonstration of some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and a real figth.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:32 pm

KempoDick wrote:I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.


How I wrote in my answer to The Welz:

You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.
But if you can do it in a better way - good for you.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:44 pm

Neverending wrote:
KempoDick wrote:I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.


How I wrote in my answer to The Welz:

You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.
But if you can do it in a better way - good for you.


It seems I'm talking to a real expert here, so I'd better keep my mouth shut.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:48 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
KempoDick wrote:Both are an insult to the Martial Arts ...

I disagree, if only because Presley's dedication to, and love for, the art inspired many people. One must take this into account.


YES!

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:50 pm

Neverending wrote:You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.


Two different things indeed but still you have to do them right.

I think Elvis wanted to use his fame to get attention for martial arts and I applaud him for that. He doesn't need to be an expert either. Just don't claim te be something you're not. I'm not blaming Elvis he's just sharing his enthusiasm. It's Wayne Carman commenting things like Elvis was the highest black belt present which is troublesome with such experts as Kang Rhee and Bill Wallace present. It's ridiculous to give the impression Elvis was their senior at martial arts. He's not.

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:54 pm

KempoDick wrote:
Neverending wrote:
KempoDick wrote:I don't think anyone will doubt that Elvis was a real karateka and black belt.
But ..... you must admit that the things that Elvis shows on this DVD are not even worty of a blue belt, Just like the comments of Wayne Carman.
Both are an insult to the Martial Arts with Carman being the worse.


How I wrote in my answer to The Welz:

You have to differentiate between demonstrating and explaining some selfdefense-technics in slow motion and between a real full contact fight. And explain and show some selfdefense-technics - that's what Elvis is doing in this footage - no more no less.
But if you can do it in a better way - good for you.


It seems I'm talking to a real expert here, so I'd better keep my mouth shut.


In fact you are man - and it for sure would be better to keep your mouth shut because Neverending knows the subject. Besides your comment is nothing more than an insult directed to Wayne Carman and Elvis. You do not care enough to give any specifics why Elvis demonstration is substandard. That says it all :roll: .

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:58 pm

buddy holly wrote: I think Elvis wanted to use his fame to get attention for martial arts and I applaud him for that. He doesn't need to be an expert either. Just don't claim te be something you're not. I'm not blaming Elvis he's just sharing his enthusiasm. It's Wayne Carman commenting things like Elvis was the highest black belt present which is troublesome with such experts as Kang Rhee and Bill Wallace present. It's ridiculous to give the impression Elvis was their senior at martial arts. He's not.


Right, he wanted to share his enthusiasm and he did. Elvis Presley was a world class singer and entertainer with a black belt. He was not a professional Karateka who participated in fights, guess why - because of his career. Bill Wallace and Kang Rhee were world class Karate champions but no singers. Is this really so hard to understand?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:06 pm

patricia66 wrote:
buddy holly wrote: I think Elvis wanted to use his fame to get attention for martial arts and I applaud him for that. He doesn't need to be an expert either. Just don't claim te be something you're not. I'm not blaming Elvis he's just sharing his enthusiasm. It's Wayne Carman commenting things like Elvis was the highest black belt present which is troublesome with such experts as Kang Rhee and Bill Wallace present. It's ridiculous to give the impression Elvis was their senior at martial arts. He's not.


Right, he wanted to share his enthusiasm and he did. Elvis Presley was a world class singer and entertainer with a black belt. He was not a professional Karateka who participated in fights, guess why - because of his career. Bill Wallace and Kang Rhee were world class Karate champions but no singers. Is this really so hard to understand?


Do you actually read the posts you comment on?

Re: Has anybody bought that Gladiators DVD?

Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:23 pm

buddy holly wrote:
True. The importance of degrees is overrated anyhow. It's nice for kids to train towards a promotion and get something to show off. An adult should be beyond such behaviour. After all a degree is just an achievement at some point in time. You can really earn a black belt and still wear it twenty years later without having trained at all in between. What's the meaning of that black belt then? Then it's just a souvenir of better times long gone.

If you have to prove your skills just prove them, don't just show a belt and/or a certificate. Better yet not to show off and just enjoy your training with your buddies.


One point in your post is correct: the importances of degrees in our modern times And you know why? Because most of the students are too soft.Today nearly nobody could take such a hard training under such famous constructors like Slomansi or of some of the great japanese Masters. If you got in sparring with a hard chop on somebodys body, they fall yammering on the ground - except real Karatekas who are in professional full contact kumite's.

This fighters are people who study the sport since their childhood and you can believe me: Whenever you practise real Karate over decades, you never loose your skills - even if you are an old man with little training.