Ernst J

I would also like to add one more thing. Vinyl is still here, still being made, the 45's the LP's still sell on ebay everyday. Without going into the auidophile reasons for buying it, what an artist put out in his lifetime and how he put it out is very important. I don't care how you come across Elvis, without knowing what was on the original 1954-1977 releases you cannot come to a real understanding of his career. I recomend hearing them that way myself, but again comps can work for a casual fan. What is important though is Elvis' legacy. His own vision should be perserved. The deluxe soundtrack releases, the LP boxes of original albums, the gold record series Elvis Is Back, From Elvis In Memphis, these are all being pressed on vinyl right now. What I have a problem with is that the Elvis catalog isn't complete. Of course they should be on CD or download too, but without these releases at all you cannot really fathom why Elvis was percieved as he was in his lifetime. Thankfully Elvis vinyl still sells well to those interested in fifties music, and not everybody who buys them are collectors or fanatics. Some people just like good music on record period.

Thank God you can count on their "in-depth" reviews, though. DJC

Jesus DOC you are acting like a baby in pre-school.
Even though your 'old thread' was locked down by PEP as finished, you just can't help yourself.

You should grow up.
"You can count on EIN's "in-depth" reviews"

THANKs - and you certainly can.
More honest than biased DJC reviews any day!

Cheers
Piers

...I agree that it would be nice if all of the original albums were out there and people bought them but the name of the game is to sell product. I think we are lucky that we have someone like Ernst to cater to those of us with the FTD label and keep the mainstream catalogue going for regular consumers.

Well, one could argue that the more "original" titles available could ultimately generate more sales in the long run. Someone that becomes a big fan of an artist will ultimately want to purchase everything available. Casual fans or curious music consumers that discover the brilliance of Elvis will have endless compilations at their disposal and then have to hunt down hard to find and out of print original titles (FTD should not be the only and expensive avenue to explore EP's vast catalogue). It seems to be a strange way to run a catalogue of such a high magnitude.

When I became a Miles Davis fan back in the mid-90's, I had no idea where to start. His catalogue is enormous, similar to Elvis' in size. Little by little I became educated with his various bands and musical explorations. At this point in time, I have the vast majority of his Prestige, Blue Note and Columbia titles. If Sony ran the Davis catalogue like the way the EP catalogue is managed, I would be missing out on some phenominal albums and stuck with hits packages and themed compilations. That is no way to effectively run a catalogue. No matter the size, the music should be there for public consumption. Future generations of Elvis fans are getting royally screwed by a short-sighted quick-buck business philosophy. Everyone loses; the fans and Elvis' recording legacy.

I am sure that if BMG believed Elvis' original catalogue sold more, those titles would be out there. I believe a lot of Elvis' original albums were out in CD form in the late 80s and early 90's and then the key titles were put out again a few years ago with bonus tracks. Apparently, they didn't sell. My guess is that if they had sold well, they would still be available.

Comparing Miles Davis' and Elvis' respective catalogues is like comparing apples to oranges. When Miles Davis recorded, he ran a series of sessions with the knowledge that the material was going into the next album. I think the exceptions would have been the Quiet Nights album and the song Nothing Like You from Sorcerer. The rest of his albums all contained music recorded specifically for the albums that came out respective to the sessions. Elvis recorded songs and they were released piecemeal on albums scattered throughout his career so it is not as important for his albums to be kept together with the possible exceptions that I noted earlier. These albums are more important to the hardcore fans who already have them. Someone else pointed out that you cannot get an understanding of Elvis' career without knowing these albums. This is true but it is the perspective of a more intense fan, not a casual consumer. I like the song Buddy Hollly by Weezer so I bought the disc, but I don't necessarily want a deeper understanding of their career.

...I agree that it would be nice if all of the original albums were out there and people bought them but the name of the game is to sell product. I think we are lucky that we have someone like Ernst to cater to those of us with the FTD label and keep the mainstream catalogue going for regular consumers.

Well, one could argue that the more "original" titles available could ultimately generate more sales in the long run. Someone that becomes a big fan of an artist will ultimately want to purchase everything available. Casual fans or curious music consumers that discover the brilliance of Elvis will have endless compilations at their disposal and then have to hunt down hard to find and out of print original titles (FTD should not be the only and expensive avenue to explore EP's vast catalogue). It seems to be a strange way to run a catalogue of such a high magnitude.

When I became a Miles Davis fan back in the mid-90's, I had no idea where to start. His catalogue is enormous, similar to Elvis' in size. Little by little I became educated with his various bands and musical explorations. At this point in time, I have the vast majority of his Prestige, Blue Note and Columbia titles. If Sony ran the Davis catalogue like the way the EP catalogue is managed, I would be missing out on some phenominal albums and stuck with hits packages and themed compilations. That is no way to effectively run a catalogue. No matter the size, the music should be there for public consumption. Future generations of Elvis fans are getting royally screwed by a short-sighted quick-buck business philosophy. Everyone loses; the fans and Elvis' recording legacy.

I think you make some great points!

We Elvisionados have never had it so good as we have during the Ernst & Roger era! Are they perfect? Of course not, but nobody in their position would be. But by & large, they've done an extraordinary job! The Essential Elvis series. Collectors Gold. The box sets. The catalogue upgrade of the late 90's. And last but not least FTD.

We Elvisionados have never had it so good as we have during the Ernst & Roger era! Are they perfect? Of course not, but nobody in their position would be. But by & large, they've done an extraordinary job! The Essential Elvis series. Collectors Gold. The box sets. The catalogue upgrade of the late 90's. And last but not least FTD.

And the good news is the best is yet to come! I'm looking forward to many more FTD deluxe editions in the classic album series.

Why do car manufacturers produce new models every year.

To sell more cars and make profits.

Imagine if Ford or GM or whoever froze all new models and designs at 1977 and only made slight improvements?

Why, that would be like RCA never issueing a new Elvis album beyond 1977 and only make slight (DSD) improvements as the years roll by.

Yep that wouild make loads of money for RCA and their retailers.

The car analogy doesn't really work, does it? After all, what sells about Elvis' music is the fact that is frozen exactly the way it was, say, in 1957.
That indeed is the selling point: that no matter how old it is, and the fact that it's new to some people's ears, this is great music worthy of one's collection. But would that person really think it's a "new" track? The fifties tracks in particular (along with 3/4 of the '60s) scream "50 years ago!" so why not say respect the packaging and line-up to some degree?

(Never mind the recent trend of retro- VW Beetles and Ford Thunderbirds -and the fact that the best selling car ever (the Bug) for decades made minor changes to a 1930's era design...)

After all, if it means anything, I bought Elvis' '50s albums for the first time in the 1970s and '80s as a kid and I knew they were old and I loved them. I wasn't an "Elvis expert" but casually kept working my way through all he recorded.

And for a good time of that I was concious I was buying a dead artist's music. It was only when I picked up things like "Pure Gold" or "Remembering Elvis" on Pear or "Greatest Hits Volume One" that I realized I was being duped into buying albums with essentially new covers. In 2007, I don't want newer fans (such as there might be) have to get the shaft like too many of us did.

I do see what you're saying and I don't begrudge new compilations where needed. I liked both "E1" and "E2" as unfashionable as that is to admit in some quarters and I see the utility of some of them.

But as Midnightx draws out so well, at one point, the consumer is faced with a confusing array of duplicative releases. Not long after "E1," things like "Love, Elvis' and "Elvis By the Presley's" effectively gave the back of the hand to newer fans hooked by the big hit compilations, forcing them to buy some of the same songs again just to get access at the ones they did not see. Either that, or they have to sleuth around to find older stock of previous CDs, sometimes on the shelf and sometimes via the net.

So Kiwi, I don't hear anyone saying no new compilations should never come out, but it's a question of how much and how often - in moderating the desire for an assumed cheap, quick buck versus saying "here is a historic album by an all-time legendary artist and this is what his great music was, the context it came in, and this is the cover that moved millions to put it at number one on the charts...Be a part of it, " etc.


Unlike "Usher" or Mariah Carey, and other living artists, we'll never really have totally new albums anymore save for perhaps remaining alternates and live shows, so why insult people's intelligence with track duplication? I know plenty of music lovers (so-called "casual" fans when it comes to someone like Elvis) who will pick up a compilation, then a key album, and then another, and another, and slowly in effect have a shelf devoted to the key works of that artist.

Doing that now is a mine field for a would be-fan. I'm not as concerned as those who are happy with one comp of hits, but those who go further are going to find a shell-game.

Long term, it's made Elvis' catalog more of a mess, reinforcing the notion of too many that Elvis was kind of a gimmicky, flashy cotton-candy act of little substance. It's a serious demerit to the label.

Whether Ernst could have stopped it is anyone's guess, but some of his comments in interviews shows that he's either beholden to higher-ups (and aren't we all?) and perhaps has swallowed the company line hook, line, and sinker. Our assumption from his noted dedication to resurrecting Elvis' legacy in so many ways is that he has to work in the confines of a corporation / label that sadly (as some have suggested more vigorously) does not take Elvis that seriously compared to other historic acts of his stature.

Last edited by Gregory Nolan Jr. on Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thank God you can count on their "in-depth" reviews, though. DJC

Jesus DOC you are acting like a baby in pre-school.
Even though your 'old thread' was locked down by PEP as finished, you just can't help yourself.

You should grow up.
"You can count on EIN's "in-depth" reviews"

THANKs - and you certainly can.
More honest than biased DJC reviews any day!

Cheers
Piers

I am afraid that it was not locked due to DOCs comments, Piers. Rather due to some VERY STUPID questions.

Ronnyg wrote:

I am sure that if BMG believed Elvis' original catalogue sold more, those titles would be out there. I believe a lot of Elvis' original albums were out in CD form in the late 80s and early 90's and then the key titles were put out again a few years ago with bonus tracks. Apparently, they didn't sell. My guess is that if they had sold well, they would still be available.

The argument being made by Midnight, myself and not a few others for years now ( most notably Rockin' Rebel and Peter Franks) is precisely taking into account the notion that quality has to be cultivated and should matter at least a little.

After all, a woman can probably pick up a few extra dollars on the side as a prostitute but that doesn't mean it's a good idea for her personal happiness, her husband or kids, etc. - and certainly damages her quality, many of us would agree.

After all, we do call them "artists" for a reason - it's not all commerce, nor should it be. The still-unremarked upon AP article above shows how certain acts have classic albums that sell year in and year out. Can't Elvis be part of that equation? Sure he (or his legacy) can.

And I'm not so sure that the original album reissues "didn't sell." What are the facts of the expectations for catalog album releases? More likely, they met expectations for a catalog artist whose first recordings are now a half-century ago and not getting any younger. Aftter the late '90s reissues of the '50s albums and a few others, some of the early titles were bolstered in 2005 with the slightly-reconfigured track orders of the Kevan Budd remasters of the first three albums. Were these flops? Compared to what?

These titles have earned their way in charting, sales, and critical notice, for longer than most of us have been alive, and yet, like an old horse being flogged for one more race, it is assumed that they some how have to match Usher or 50 Cent in sales or something current, and worse have to get a fancy new outfit and other things unbefitting a veteran and senior citizen.

These are "oldies" folks -so let's not kid ourselves. The secret is out. And a new package too often fosters a sense that this is being changed. Strategically-done, sure, they can be great. But over and over and with the recompiles is sure to back fire and it has upon examination.

The argument is not for sellling more of the proverbial hotcakes but to sell hotcakes (and I don't necessarily mean the woman ) with a sense of quality and class, in this case, respect for the singer's legacy.

I know this argument may be like pissing in the wind , as "the market" is , for some, the God of our era. But in reality, I'm not so sure that the market necessarily long-term rewards such floggings, in addition to the CD market itself being faded to black...

Jesus DOC ...

Doc is just fine, thanks.

Greg Nolan - I guess we just have to agree that we disagree.

WHEW!!!! Are you guys still listening to the same songs in a different order?

It is wonderful to dedicate your career and knowledge to something you truly love and make a living out of it and feed your family in the process.

For that alone Ernst deserves all the kudos he can get. He has done a miraculous job of holding it all together under adverse conditions and tight budgets since day one on the Elvis catalog. He knows more than nearly anyone alive today and can pinpoint with immense accuracy the shortcomings and deficiencies of a certain take or recording.

Never in the history of any modern day artist has there been anyone so knowledgable and dedicated to detail than Ernst.
As far as E1 and Ernst..It was always a piece of the puzzle that was another year in his career. As someone said earlier, and I am sure Ernst would agree, with no great artists we are all nothing!!
Ernst has done the best he can, and that is not easy in the musical environment we live and work in today.
DB

P.S. My egocentric, pompous, arrogant, and vulgar demeanor is only surpassed in it's full entirety by the ranting and narcism of Doc Carpenter.

WHEW!!!! Are you guys still listening to the same songs in a different order?

It is wonderful to dedicate your career and knowledge to something you truly love and make a living out of it and feed your family in the process.

For that alone Ernst deserves all the kudos he can get. He has done a miraculous job of holding it all together under adverse conditions and tight budgets since day one on the Elvis catalog. He knows more than nearly anyone alive today and can pinpoint with immense accuracy the shortcomings and deficiencies of a certain take or recording.

Never in the history of any modern day artist has there been anyone so knowledgable and dedicated to detail than Ernst.
As far as E1 and Ernst..It was always a piece of the puzzle that was another year in his career. As someone said earlier, and I am sure Ernst would agree, with no great artists we are all nothing!!
Ernst has done the best he can, and that is not easy in the musical environment we live and work in today.
DB

P.S. My egocentric, pompous, arrogant, and vulgar demeanor is only surpassed in it's full entirety by the ranting and narcism of Doc Carpenter.

I thought your post was well-written, and made some very good points.

Then you had to negate all that goodwill with your last sentence.

Since you haven't made a post in nearly eight weeks, and thus no apparent interaction with members of this forum, it seems odd you would choose to do this.

aha.......love it.
But hey, the guy hasn't made a zillion posts, musn't know what he's talking about.
Heck, even uses his real name!

Truth hurts.......obviously.

Your welcome here any day, David.

Hello,

You know, you are slightly more fun when you post as

Doc, (*Rock and Roll Scholar -> He KNOWS!)
you are right, It was extremely rude and cruel of me to do that. BUT, It is my post not yours. When I want to do a joint venture post with you I will pm you and we can come up with something a lot more self serving for you, Hell I will even let you write it!!
I liked you better when you were Johnny.


quote="drjohncarpenter"]

P.S. My egocentric, pompous, arrogant, and vulgar demeanor is only surpassed in it's full entirety by the ranting and narcism of Doc Carpenter.

I thought your post was well-written, and made some very good points.

Then you had to negate all that goodwill with your last sentence.

Since you haven't made a post in nearly eight weeks, and thus no apparent interaction with members of this forum, it seems odd you would choose to do this.[/quote]

... you are right, It was extremely rude and cruel of me to do that ...

Are you out of work?

I wish I was, I need a break. Sorry you do not read the charts any more. Ask some youngsters. They will fill you in on what I do, or remind you by hijacking your itunes account. (Its a place on the Internet where you buy music now)

Doc, (*Rock and Roll Scholar -> He KNOWS!)
you are right, It was extremely rude and cruel of me to do that. BUT, It is my post not yours. When I want to do a joint venture post with you I will pm you and we can come up with something a lot more self serving for you, Hell I will even let you write it!!
I liked you better when you were Johnny.

Are you out of work?

Hello,

Dr. John Carpenter wrote:

You know, you are slightly more fun when you post as

Doc, I am not Kris P. I am Daryl. Get your facts straight. Here's your "rude" wake-up call. I assumed you were smart enough to realize that I am who I say I am. But apparently I assumed wrongly about you, Doc. And for anyone, especially you Doc, to accuse another board member of being me is hypocritical considering your run-ins with a fellow by the name of "Johnny Savage."

Not only is it hypocritical, it's quite rude.

Dr. John Carpenter also wrote:

Are you out of work?

First of all, doc, it's none of your business whether D. Bendeth is working or not. Aren't you a bit nosy? Instead of being so "rude", why don't you simply ask D. Bendeth was he has been doing lately? Instead of implying that he's out of work. Again another rude statement from you, doc.

Are you ever going to learn?

BTW, Glad to have you back David Bendeth. Cue the f**king music (John Sebastian's "Welcome Back")

I still listen quite a bit to 30 #1 Hits. (The DVD-Audio of course)

I got a question for you David. Since you worked with Ray Bardani on "30 #1 Hits", did you and Ray mix the 1969 Las Vegas show that is coming out on Tuesday on the "Viva Las Vegas" Wal-Mart 2 CD set. Or did Ray mix this after you were let go by himself.

For the record, Doc you were wrong again when you said in a previous post regarding this '69 show was the August 21, 1969 Midnight Show. No, it is not. It is the August 21, 1969 Dinner Show.

Hello.

Yes, I do requests.

And you're not even thirty yet. Your mom must be proud.

Daryl, Do you have another brother named Daryl? or another brother named Daryl?

I did not mix anymore Elvis records after E1. Feel free to give Ray all the love in that department. I would love to try another mix one day though.

I am more Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, Breaking Benjamin and Paramore these days, ask Doc, I amd sure he has those CD's.

Hello,

Dr. John Carpenter wrote:

You know, you are slightly more fun when you post as "Daryl."

Doc, I am not Kris P. I am Daryl. Get your facts straight. Here's your "rude" wake-up call. I assumed you were smart enough to realize that I am who I say I am. But apparently I assumed wrongly about you, Doc. And for anyone, especially you Doc, to accuse another board member of being me is hypocritical considering your run-ins with a fellow by the name of "Johnny Savage."

Not only is it hypocritical, it's quite rude.

Dr. John Carpenter also wrote:

Are you out of work?

First of all, doc, it's none of your business whether D. Bendeth is working or not. Aren't you a bit nosy? Instead of being so "rude", why don't you simply ask D. Bendeth was he has been doing lately? Instead of implying that he's out of work. Again another rude statement from you, doc.

Are you ever going to learn?

BTW, Glad to have you back David Bendeth. Cue the f**king music (John Sebastian's "Welcome Back")

I still listen quite a bit to 30 #1 Hits. (The DVD-Audio of course)

I got a question for you David. Since you worked with Ray Bardani on "30 #1 Hits", did you and Ray mix the 1969 Las Vegas show that is coming out on Tuesday on the "Viva Las Vegas" Wal-Mart 2 CD set. Or did Ray mix this after you were let go by himself.

For the record, Doc you were wrong again when you said in a previous post regarding this '69 show was the August 21, 1969 Midnight Show. No, it is not. It is the August 21, 1969 Dinner Show.

Hello,

That is if he knows who his mommy is. For all we know, he may have been sucking on the tit of a cow as an infant in the barn he was born in.

Doc, I am not Kris P. I am Daryl.

That's the first thing you've gotten right. Congrats.

First of all, doc, it's none of your business whether D. Bendeth is working or not.

Nor is it yours, "Daryl."

The comment was just tongue-in-cheek, to counter David's odd vitriol, aimed at me out of the blue.

Humour -> try it sometime, "Daryl."

For the record, Doc you were wrong again when you said in a previous post regarding this '69 show was the August 21, 1969 Midnight Show. No, it is not. It is the August 21, 1969 Dinner Show.

For the record, listeners of the posted files on line indicate my wishful hope it is the MS may well be -- get this, "Daryl" -- RIGHT ON THE MONEY.

Your posts kill me, "Daryl."

See ya!

39 actually.

Nice try!

Hope you feel better soon.