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You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:58 am

So today I was reading the Elvis chart books and noticed that this single had climbed from number #2o to number #11 in 1 week, that's pretty impressive, but does anyone know why the single just automatically stalled at number #11 ?

I mean, it couldn't have been a lack of radio, I mean for the single to jump 9 spots in one week and sales were significant , over 800,000 copies, according to Ernst' book.

Come on let's get this thread started and let's start rocking ...

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:39 am

Good question.
Here is the "chart run":
Starting on October 31st 1970: 38 - 22 - 20 - 11 - 11 - 14 - 24 - 32
(8 weeks in total.)

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:57 pm

What chart book are you using?

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:02 pm

I use:
americantop40.wikia.com

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:32 pm

Good question ::rocks I thought it was going to hit #1 spot.

I recall 'Patch It Up' was being played a lot by DJ's as well.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:56 pm

Before anyone states it, I will. The Dusty signature :lol: hit was still fresh in the memory of the public at large... so reaching that #11 spot, was excellent.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:07 pm

Juan Luis on Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:56 am wrote:Before anyone states it, I will. The Dusty signature :lol: hit was still fresh in the memory of the public at large... so reaching that #11 spot, was excellent.


True, but DJ's were playing Elvis' version constantly and like I mentioned, they played 'Patch It Up' too.

I'd say it stalled because Elvis didn't do anything to promote it.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:12 pm

EPA4368 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:07 am wrote:
Juan Luis on Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:56 am wrote:Before anyone states it, I will. The Dusty signature :lol: hit was still fresh in the memory of the public at large... so reaching that #11 spot, was excellent.


True, but DJ's were playing Elvis' version constantly and like I mentioned, they played 'Patch It Up' too.

I'd say it stalled because Elvis didn't do anything to promote it.


I think Dusty having a pretty recent hit ( 4 yrs before) had something to do with it. That said, I did hear it on the radio quite a bit, and Elvis was still in the comeback mode, so who knows? Im more surprised that Kentucky Rain much earlier in the year didnt chart higher coming off the heels of the wonderful 1969 success. IMO, I think Patch It Up had more hit potential, and could have been promoted tremendously being one of the highlights in TTWII.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:32 pm

r&b on Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:12 am wrote:
EPA4368 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:07 am wrote:
Juan Luis on Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:56 am wrote:Before anyone states it, I will. The Dusty signature :lol: hit was still fresh in the memory of the public at large... so reaching that #11 spot, was excellent.


True, but DJ's were playing Elvis' version constantly and like I mentioned, they played 'Patch It Up' too.

I'd say it stalled because Elvis didn't do anything to promote it.


I think Dusty having a pretty recent hit ( 4 yrs before) had something to do with it. That said, I did hear it on the radio quite a bit, and Elvis was still in the comeback mode, so who knows? Im more surprised that Kentucky Rain much earlier in the year didnt chart higher coming off the heels of the wonderful 1969 success. IMO, I think Patch It Up had more hit potential, and could have been promoted tremendously being one of the highlights in TTWII.


I agree with you about 'Kentucky Rain'. Not to get off topic, but I think what hurt the brilliant 'American Sound Studio' recordings not doing better, was when Elvis signed up to play in Vegas.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:33 pm

trouble_jw on Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:57 am wrote:What chart book are you using?


Joseph Tunzi's, "Number Ones".

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:44 pm

jeanno on Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:39 am wrote:Good question.
Here is the "chart run":
Starting on October 31st 1970: 38 - 22 - 20 - 11 - 11 - 14 - 24 - 32
(8 weeks in total.)


So the single stalled at number 11 for 2 weeks ? Fascinating ...

The reason I bring this up is that last night I played the original "That's The Way It Is" album, (which is a joy, and another mystery), I'm paying close attention to the song itself, Elvis' vocals, and I think Elvis' final "Master" has a lot of heart and soul and was greatly produced.

It's still kind of hard to believe that radio programmers and playlist directors completely lost interest in Elvis' records after this 45rpm up until 1972's "Burning Love".
Last edited by minkahed on Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:44 pm

.I think what hurt the brilliant 'American Sound Studio' recordings not doing better, was when Elvis signed up to play in Vegas.


I don't get the connection between the two? Elvis was recording great material, had enjoyed success with the TV special, and I'm sure the fact he was to do live shows again only increased the excitement / buzz around Elvis at the time. At the time Suspicious Minds hit, he was already in Vegas - the ending of the song was structured to replicate his live versions, so I don't think Vegas hurt his record sales - perhaps the opposite!

As for the single, it was a good one, and he definitely put his mark on it.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:14 pm

minkahed on Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:58 pm wrote:So today I was reading the Elvis chart books and noticed that this single had climbed from number #2o to number #11 in 1 week, that's pretty impressive, but does anyone know why the single just automatically stalled at number #11 ?

I mean, it couldn't have been a lack of radio, I mean for the single to jump 9 spots in one week and sales were significant , over 800,000 copies, according to Ernst' book.

Come on let's get this thread started and let's start rocking ...



The single of "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me" (RCA 47-9916, October 17, 1970) peaked at #11 on Billboard's "Hot 100" for December 5, 1970 for any number of reasons:

- it was a familiar song already, a 1966 Dusty Springfield hit
- RCA PR fell short
- Elvis made no TV appearances to promote it
- several songs in the top ten were stronger, newer material (Smokey Robinson & Miracles, Jackson 5, James Taylor)

The single made it to #10 on the Cash Box "Top 100" chart for November 28, 1970.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:14 pm

minkahed on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:44 am wrote:
jeanno on Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:39 am wrote:Good question.
Here is the "chart run":
Starting on October 31st 1970: 38 - 22 - 20 - 11 - 11 - 14 - 24 - 32
(8 weeks in total.)


So the single stalled at number 11 for 2 weeks ? Fascinating ...

The reason I bring this up is that last night I played the original "That's The Way It Is" album, (which is a joy, and another mystery), I'm paying close attention to the song itself, Elvis' vocals, and I think Elvis' final "Master" has a lot of heart and soul and was greatly produced.

It's still kind of hard to believe that radio programmers and playlist directors completely lost interest in Elvis' records after this 45rpm up until 1972's "Burning Love".


Sadly, after the comeback attention petered out, radio lost interest in Elvis. Some had to do with song selection and some had to do with the type of hits getting airplay in 1971 and 1972. Much of it was singer-songwriters and I don't think they viewed Elvis that way. Plus, it is unclear how much promotion push RCA put behind the 1970 and 1971 singles.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:23 pm

minkahed on Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:44 am wrote:So the single stalled at number 11 for 2 weeks ? Fascinating ...

The reason I bring this up is that last night I played the original "That's The Way It Is" album, (which is a joy, and another mystery), I'm paying close attention to the song itself, Elvis' vocals, and I think Elvis' final "Master" has a lot of heart and soul and was greatly produced.

It's still kind of hard to believe that radio programmers and playlist directors completely lost interest in Elvis' records after this 45rpm up until 1972's "Burning Love".



The A-sides were, to say the least, unimpressive, so it is not a surprise at all. Only "I'm Leavin'" was worthy, really. And maybe the B.J. Thomas cover of "It's Only Love," but the rest was a sorry bunch for radio and retail.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:43 pm

minkahed on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:44 am wrote:It's still kind of hard to believe that radio programmers and playlist directors completely lost interest in Elvis' records after this 45rpm up until 1972's "Burning Love".

Let's not blame the radio programmers or playlist directors. They lost interest because of boring/unappealing songs being released
as singles by RCA... such as... Where Did They Go, Lord; Life; I'm Leavin'; The Sound of Your Cry; Until It's Time For You To Go;
We Can Make The Morning; The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face.

Even nice songs like "I Really Don't Want To Know/There Goes My Everything" were leaning more towards country music listeners.
If Elvis and/or RCA had made better choices for his 45-rpm records, then perhaps Elvis' singles would've continued to do well on the charts.

"It's Your Baby, You Rock It" should've been released as a single in late 1970/early '71... (in place of "Where Did They Go, Lord" perhaps).
I think it would've gone Top-10 on the charts for sure!

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:47 pm

Right.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:58 pm

I agree: the a-side choices were not very good after YDHTSYLM. IYB,YRI could have been a nice country rock single with Elvis in top form vocally.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:12 pm

drjohncarpenter on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:14 am wrote:The single of "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me" (RCA 47-9916, October 17, 1970) peaked at #11 on Billboard's "Hot 100" for December 5, 1970 for any number of reasons:

- it was a familiar song already, a 1966 Dusty Springfield hit
- RCA PR fell short
- Elvis made no TV appearances to promote it
- several songs in the top ten were stronger, newer material (Smokey Robinson & Miracles, Jackson 5, James Taylor)

The single made it to #10 on the Cash Box "Top 100" chart for November 28, 1970.



I just realized, today is the 47th anniversary of this single's top ten peak on Cash Box.

Happy anniversary to you ... happy anniversary to you ...

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:25 pm

Jukebox Jam on Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:43 pm wrote:
minkahed on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:44 am wrote:It's still kind of hard to believe that radio programmers and playlist directors completely lost interest in Elvis' records after this 45rpm up until 1972's "Burning Love".

Let's not blame the radio programmers or playlist directors. They lost interest because of boring/unappealing songs being released
as singles by RCA... such as... Where Did They Go, Lord; Life; I'm Leavin'; The Sound of Your Cry; Until It's Time For You To Go;
We Can Make The Morning; The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face.

Even nice songs like "I Really Don't Want To Know/There Goes My Everything" were leaning more towards country music listeners.
If Elvis and/or RCA had made better choices for his 45-rpm records, then perhaps Elvis' singles would've continued to do well on the charts.

"It's Your Baby, You Rock It" should've been released as a single in late 1970/early '71... (in place of "Where Did They Go, Lord" perhaps).
I think it would've gone Top-10 on the charts for sure!


Yes, definitely, with I Washed My Hands as a follow up.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:50 am

drjohncarpenter on Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:23 pm wrote:
minkahed on Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:44 am wrote:So the single stalled at number 11 for 2 weeks ? Fascinating ...

The reason I bring this up is that last night I played the original "That's The Way It Is" album, (which is a joy, and another mystery), I'm paying close attention to the song itself, Elvis' vocals, and I think Elvis' final "Master" has a lot of heart and soul and was greatly produced.

It's still kind of hard to believe that radio programmers and playlist directors completely lost interest in Elvis' records after this 45rpm up until 1972's "Burning Love".



The A-sides were, to say the least, unimpressive, so it is not a surprise at all. Only "I'm Leavin'" was worthy, really. And maybe the B.J. Thomas cover of "It's Only Love," but the rest was a sorry bunch for radio and retail.


I always thought "It's Only Love" was a pretty unremarkable single, speaking as fan of many 70s cuts. Bland and generic to me. No surprise it petered out. As usual, I think it got more airplay on AC/EZ listening stations.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:53 am

This song is among the handful of 1970s Elvis tracks that I used to hear on an oldies station in my area in the 1990s. I also remember hearing "Moody Blue" on an AC station in 1987-88.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:05 am

Hitting #10 or #11 on the charts is more than respectable, especially considering that "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me" is not a particularly great Presley track -- Elvis' vocal delivery is overly melodramatic and the outro crescendo/post-production is garish.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:35 am

midnightx on Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:05 pm wrote:Hitting #10 or #11 on the charts is more than respectable, especially considering that "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me" is not a particularly great Presley track -- Elvis' vocal delivery is overly melodramatic and the outro crescendo/post-production is garish.
Wrong. It is a great Presley track.

Re: You Don't Have to Say You Love Me -The Single

Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:10 am

MRM on Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:50 pm wrote:
drjohncarpenter on Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:23 pm wrote:The A-sides were, to say the least, unimpressive, so it is not a surprise at all. Only "I'm Leavin'" was worthy, really. And maybe the B.J. Thomas cover of "It's Only Love," but the rest was a sorry bunch for radio and retail.


I always thought "It's Only Love" was a pretty unremarkable single, speaking as fan of many 70s cuts. Bland and generic to me. No surprise it petered out. As usual, I think it got more airplay on AC/EZ listening stations.



Note I only gave it a "maybe." It was a disaster on Billboard's "Hot 100," not even cracking the top 50, and the same fate befell it on Cash Box's "Top 100." It did reach #19 on the Billboard AC chart.

The song, written by Mark James and Steve Tyrell, is very good material, and might be called the last gasp of the American Sound studios style for Presley, given that the B.J. Thomas rendition was cut there in 1969 with the legendary house band, and produced by the great Chips Moman mere weeks after finishing the Elvis sessions.



Image



Thomas' single was the follow-up to the biggest hit of his career, "Hooked On A Feeling," another Mark James masterpiece. The new one only did OK, making the top 30 in Cash Box, less so in Billboard. Despite that, Elvis' 1971 recording almost completely copies the Moman arrangement. Even two years later, he knew Chips was good.



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B.J. Thomas "It's Only Love" (Scepter 12244, March 8, 1969)
Billboard "Hot 100" #45, May 3, 1969, Cash Box "Top 100" #28, April 26, 1969





midnightx on Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:05 pm wrote:Hitting #10 or #11 on the charts is more than respectable, especially considering that "You Don't Have To Say You Love Me" is not a particularly great Presley track -- Elvis' vocal delivery is overly melodramatic and the outro crescendo/post-production is garish.



One might argue that it succeeded in part from the publicity around the MGM documentary, and the overall very strong run of singles Elvis had released since "If I Can Dream" almost two years before. That goodwill would dissipate as soon as the new year's first 45.