Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by MikeFromHolland »

GuyLambert wrote:
MikeFromHolland wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
It's possible we have two sources for the "Without You" demo then. The original in the possession of the Sam Phillips family, and the copy that resides at MSU. The family member must Sam's wife, Becky, died on September 13, 2012 at the age of eighty-seven.
Hi Doc: 99% sure (you never know) that there's only the one copy of the demo, which Marion took with her when she left Sun in 1957.
Ok, so 99% sure the MSU tale is a fantasy after all.

::rocks

.
The University of Memphis does play into the story. :wink:
So we're getting warmer now :D

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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:The University of Memphis does play into the story. :wink:
Yup.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

George Smith wrote:
Among other things, yes.
All very well deserved.

Let's make sure each one of us meets back here after we've read the MOJO article. More to be discussed, I am certain.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by Deleted User 1099 »

All of these similar topics say "The Last Mystery", which is a bit silly and overly dramatic, not to mention absolutely untrue; there are still mysteries out there in the Elvis world. Anyway, great findings, Guy Lambert. I am very much looking forward to reading your article. And the demo disc sure could have been included on A Boy from Tupelo as far as I'm concerned, perhaps at the end of disc two, where it wouldn't be in the way.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Ken Jensen wrote:All of these similar topics say "The Last Mystery", which is a bit silly and overly dramatic, not to mention absolutely untrue; there are still mysteries out there in the Elvis world. Anyway, great findings, Guy Lambert. I am very much looking forward to reading your article. And the demo disc sure could have been included on A Boy from Tupelo as far as I'm concerned, perhaps at the end of disc two, where it wouldn't be in the way.
This is the only topic on FECC I could find that states "The Last Mystery."

Perhaps he should have titled it "The Best Mystery"?


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Ken Jensen wrote:All of these similar topics say "The Last Mystery", which is a bit silly and overly dramatic, not to mention absolutely untrue; there are still mysteries out there in the Elvis world. Anyway, great findings, Guy Lambert. I am very much looking forward to reading your article. And the demo disc sure could have been included on A Boy from Tupelo as far as I'm concerned, perhaps at the end of disc two, where it wouldn't be in the way.
This is the only topic on FECC I could find that states "The Last Mystery."

Perhaps he should have titled it "The Best Mystery"?
Not my title, but I like it because it is fun and dramatic.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:This is the only topic on FECC I could find that states "The Last Mystery."

Perhaps he should have titled it "The Best Mystery"?
Not my title, but I like it because it is fun and dramatic.
I love your title. And will hopefully soon be reading your article.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

Dear Guy,

I took an early lunch break to pick up the new Mojo magazine and I wanted to congratulate you on our article and your findings.

I look forward to listening to the artist in question when I get home tonight and I'm sure I will hear what it is that you heard, and will post again.

After all these years, paperwork is indeed almost impossible to trace (as I have found out myself) but sometimes it just comes down to what you know to be right.

Well done, sir -- great job, to say the least -- let's hope the song will eventually be released in completion.

Best wishes,

George Smith.



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by colonel snow »

here another link (jimmy Bell aka Jimmy Sweeney is the unknown singer???)


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https://www.pressreader.com/uk/mojo-uk/20171001/282308205216127


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by kevanbudd »

The voice certainly sounds like a close match.

1952 -
..

1954-
..

1954-
..

1951 -
..

Original demo excerpt - Go to 23:42 to compare
..

Kevan Budd
Last edited by kevanbudd on Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:48 am, edited 13 times in total.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

Kinda neat that Elvis covered his "She Wears My Ring" without making the connection.



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

George Smith wrote:Kinda neat that Elvis covered his "She Wears My Ring" without making the connection.
The article is superb.

I've written before about Jimmy Bell and his 1960 single "She Wears My Ring."

The voice is indeed so very close!



..

Jimmy Bell "She Wears My Ring" (Hickory 1136, November 7, 1960)
Reissued as Jimmy Sweeney on Buckley 1101 on 7-07-1962, made Billboard "Hot R & B Sides" #24 on 7-28-1962.

If Sweeney "retired from the music business in 1962," it had to have been shortly after this single release/reissue.



This is the Hickory label ad:



Image

Billboard - November 21, 1960



Although the Hickory single did not do well on the charts, Elvis must have bought a copy. You can hear him singing it at home the same month, on the November 1960 home demo taped by friend Red West at 565 Perugia Way in Los Angeles. Interestingly, Presley sings in a very different style from Bell's 45, turning the song into a sweet duet with gal pal Nancy Sharp.

In contrast, Presley's 1973 Stax master is very close to the 1960 Hickory single.

What goes around, comes around.

---

For those who missed when I noted it on page 1, here again is the small segment that aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody." It pops up on the internet from time to time, and FECC member Keith has it on his site:

http://www.keithflynn.com/audio/withoutyouoriginal.MP3


Hope the full demo of "Without You" appears someday. It must be so pretty.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by timothy_sideburns »

Wonderful article. Excellent detective work.

Nice to see a short obit for Red West in the same issue.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by MikeFromHolland »

.

For those of us who can't buy the Mojo magazine in their country: http://www.pressreader.com/uk/mojo-uk/20171001/282308205216127

.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

MikeFromHolland wrote:For those of us who can't buy the Mojo magazine in their country: http://www.pressreader.com/uk/mojo-uk/20171001/282308205216127
MOJO is available pretty much everywhere. And that link was already posted on this page three hours ago by colonel snow.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by keninlincs »

Neat article,thanks for that GuyLambert


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by MikeFromHolland »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
MikeFromHolland wrote:For those of us who can't buy the Mojo magazine in their country: http://www.pressreader.com/uk/mojo-uk/20171001/282308205216127
MOJO is available pretty much everywhere. And that link was already posted on this page three hours ago by colonel snow.
In that case we have two links now. For those who missed the first one, just like me. What's your problem? Just enjoy this wonderful thread, this wonderful discovery. Thank you.

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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by BobDylan »

Unreal! "If I could find a white singer with the sound and feel of a black singer" takes on a whole new meaning after hearing this and reading the article. Well done, sir!


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by MikeFromHolland »

.

Just found this very neat page on Sweeney's records. Page 2 of 2:

https://www.vocalgroupharmony.com/3ROWNEW/TobaccoRoad.htm


From page 1:
Comments about her dad from Eugenia JoAnn Sweeney III:

James Sweeney Jr. (b. March 1922—d. October 1992)

My father could very well have become a rock 'n' roll icon. He possessed the chops and good looks, but he lacked the two essentials: drive and ambition. Instead, he was quiet, humble, reserved and intense. When he was signed to the Hickory label, he took the professional name Jimmy Bell and for a while, he enjoyed moderate success. He traveled throughout the U.S. and Canada promoting his recordings and in so doing, gathered a legion of fans. Then, at the height of it all, he opted out and came home.
After becoming inactive, he continued to write, penning songs that were recorded by Marty Robbins. In 1992, he succumbed to cancer, leaving a wife, five children and nine grandchildren to mourn his death.

It is from the basement of my heart that I offer thanks to Tony Fournier and The Vocal Group Harmony Web Site for taking such an interest in Jimmy, my dad, my Bah-bah.

Excerpts from The Billboard:
(8/7/48) "Appointment With Music" (NBC radio show originating from Nashville) ....the Varieteers (guests), who rendered "All Dressed Up With A Broken Heart".... [This song was released on the Bullet label in 1947 by Jimmy Sweeney's group The Five Bars]

(5/28/55) The Varieteers ***Call My Gal, Miss Jones/Minnie, Come Home on Hickory 1025*** There is some spin potential here.... strong in pop and r&b areas.

(3/7/60) Special Merit Spotlights - Jimmy Bell ***Prayin' For Someone To Love/What'cha Gonna Do About Me on Hickory 1115*** Bell impressively sells two listenable songs. Both are nicely handled.

(11/28/60) Jimmy Bell ***She Wears My Ring/Going Down To The River on Hickory 1136*** Lad has a potent vocal style....

(12/19/60) Acuff-Rose Publications is excited over the first Hickory release of Jimmy Bell, new find for the label.

(5/22/61) Jimmy Bell ***Lunch In A Bucket/(Yes) Here I Go Again on Hickory 1146*** Bell comes through.... with a heartfelt reading....

(10/30/61) Jimmy Bell ***The Poorest Boy In Town/Honey Bee on Hickory 1156***

(8/11/62) Jimmy Sweeney ***She Wears My Ring/What'cha Gonna Do About Me on Buckley 1101*** ....spotlights Sweeney in a strong performance of a pretty ballad.... [Apparently from Jimmy Bell Hickery masters]
.


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by George Smith »

Knowing that’s it’s very likely Jimmy Sweeny on the demo does beg the question of whether it’s also a Sweeny composition.

Some of his material was published (intriguingly) by c&w giant Acuff-Rose, but Peer Music and Red Wortham are the usual companies connected to this tale.

Assuming the picture in Mojo is authentic, the disc bears only the handwritten title and a 78rpm designation. There is no label at all, just the audiodisc batch number 3324.

Help me out on the lyrics. This is what I hear:

Always at twilight
I wish on a star
Ask God to keep you
Wherever you are
There’s time for XX
And time to regret
XX time to be lonely
Without you

Again, Guy, this is excellent work and it wouldn’t have happened without the depth of your knowledge.



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
George Smith wrote:Kinda neat that Elvis covered his "She Wears My Ring" without making the connection.
The article is superb.

I've written before about Jimmy Bell and his 1960 single "She Wears My Ring."

The voice is indeed so very close!



..

Jimmy Bell "She Wears My Ring" (Hickory 1136, November 7, 1960)
Reissued as Jimmy Sweeney on Buckley 1101 on 7-07-1962, made Billboard "Hot R & B Sides" #24 on 7-28-1962.

If Sweeney "retired from the music business in 1962," it had to have been shortly after this single release/reissue.



This is the Hickory label ad:



Image

Billboard - November 21, 1960



Although the Hickory single did not do well on the charts, Elvis must have bought a copy. You can hear him singing it at home the same month, on the November 1960 home demo taped by friend Red West at 565 Perugia Way in Los Angeles. Interestingly, Presley sings in a very different style from Bell's 45, turning the song into a sweet duet with gal pal Nancy Sharp.

In contrast, Presley's 1973 Stax master is very close to the 1960 Hickory single.

What goes around, comes around.

---

For those who missed when I noted it on page 1, here again is the small segment that aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody." It pops up on the internet from time to time, and FECC member Keith has it on his site:

http://www.keithflynn.com/audio/withoutyouoriginal.MP3


Hope the full demo of "Without You" appears someday. It must be so pretty.
Whoa, Doc, I hadn't put that together with the Perugia recording. That's so cool. and interesting, very interesting...


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

timothy_sideburns wrote:Wonderful article. Excellent detective work.

Nice to see a short obit for Red West in the same issue.
Thank you everyone for the nice comments. Fun to share the discovery with people who "get it."



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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by PiersEIN »

kevanbudd wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:
GuyLambert wrote:
kevanbudd wrote:I am reliably informed the complete demo song still exists and was available when it was discussed and considered for use on the Sun box set.

Gaining permission to use from the owner who was very sick at the time was an issue and whether fans would accept it on an Elvis release being a non Elvis track.

It was shortlisted for inclusion.

Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Thanks for the reply. The demo of Without You exists and is in great hands. The owner has not mentioned to me being contacted by anyone re inclusion on the Sun set and I'm pretty certain the "very sick" issue wasn't an issue. I'll ask.
Hi Guy,

I was informed it was a Phillips family member who was dying which is where the audio copy being considered for release came from, he was not contacted at the time as it may have been considered insensitive..

The info came direct from Ernst.

Kevan Budd.
Hi Kevin: Just realized you're who you are. Thank you for all the great work you've done, I'm a long time fan. Re the Phillips family, I understand how the connection with the demo was made.
Hi Guy,

Thank you for your kind words, I greatly look forward to reading your article.

Kevan Budd.
GREAT STUFF and good info.
Kevan, thanks for be a FECC member who keeps to the facts without trying to big-note your connections.

GuyLambert - looking forward to seeing your work in print. Cool.

Cheers
Piers


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by GuyLambert »

George Smith wrote:Dear Guy,

I took an early lunch break to pick up the new Mojo magazine and I wanted to congratulate you on our article and your findings.

I look forward to listening to the artist in question when I get home tonight and I'm sure I will hear what it is that you heard, and will post again.

After all these years, paperwork is indeed almost impossible to trace (as I have found out myself) but sometimes it just comes down to what you know to be right.

Well done, sir -- great job, to say the least -- let's hope the song will eventually be released in completion.

Best wishes,

George Smith.
Thank you George! I'd love to produce a compilation of Jimmy's recordings, including Without You. We'll see, I guess. 8)


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Re: Mojo Magazine - Elvis: The Last Mystery / Without You!

Post by drjohncarpenter »

GuyLambert wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
George Smith wrote:Kinda neat that Elvis covered his "She Wears My Ring" without making the connection.
The article is superb.

I've written before about Jimmy Bell and his 1960 single "She Wears My Ring."

The voice is indeed so very close!



..

Jimmy Bell "She Wears My Ring" (Hickory 1136, November 7, 1960)
Reissued as Jimmy Sweeney on Buckley 1101 on 7-07-1962, made Billboard "Hot R & B Sides" #24 on 7-28-1962.

If Sweeney "retired from the music business in 1962," it had to have been shortly after this single release/reissue.



This is the Hickory label ad:



Image

Billboard - November 21, 1960



Although the Hickory single did not do well on the charts, Elvis must have bought a copy. You can hear him singing it at home the same month, on the November 1960 home demo taped by friend Red West at 565 Perugia Way in Los Angeles. Interestingly, Presley sings in a very different style from Bell's 45, turning the song into a sweet duet with gal pal Nancy Sharp.

In contrast, Presley's 1973 Stax master is very close to the 1960 Hickory single.

What goes around, comes around.

---

For those who missed when I noted it on page 1, here again is the small segment that aired on the 1987 BBC-TV documentary "I Don't Sing Like Nobody." It pops up on the internet from time to time, and FECC member Keith has it on his site:

http://www.keithflynn.com/audio/withoutyouoriginal.MP3


Hope the full demo of "Without You" appears someday. It must be so pretty.
Whoa, Doc, I hadn't put that together with the Perugia recording. That's so cool. and interesting, very interesting...
These are the pieces of the puzzle that are so very fascinating for any deep fan. So glad you liked what I posted.

It is kind of crazy to me that Elvis did not emulate the 1960 single at the time of that home tape, yet completely follows the Hickory recording at Stax over thirteen years later. Could he have recently given the old disc a spin before recording the song that long-ago Memphis night in December 1973?

Thanks again.


.
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!