How Come???
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How Come???
Hi guys.
I have an interesting question for today...
I was listening to Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and I just realised that Dino had a US number 1 hit in 1964 with Everybody loves somebody in full british invasion and Sinatra did the same with Strangers in the night in 1966.
Elvis on the other hand had 3 wonderful ballads during the 1964-1966 period which did not enter the Top 10.
These 3 were: It Hurts Me , Please Don 't Stop Loving Me and Love Letters.In these records , Elvis ' voice is far superior to Dino and Sinatra in my opinion.
How come they managed to have a #1 hit in US billboard and Elvis didn't??
Thanks,Chucky.
I have an interesting question for today...
I was listening to Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and I just realised that Dino had a US number 1 hit in 1964 with Everybody loves somebody in full british invasion and Sinatra did the same with Strangers in the night in 1966.
Elvis on the other hand had 3 wonderful ballads during the 1964-1966 period which did not enter the Top 10.
These 3 were: It Hurts Me , Please Don 't Stop Loving Me and Love Letters.In these records , Elvis ' voice is far superior to Dino and Sinatra in my opinion.
How come they managed to have a #1 hit in US billboard and Elvis didn't??
Thanks,Chucky.
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Re: How Come???
'It Hurts Me' and 'Please Don't Stop Loving Me' were relegated to B sides. 'Love Letters' was a Top 20 hit in the US but did much better in the UK where it reached Number 6.
Andy
Andy
Elvis - King of the UK charts
Re: How Come???
Also Love Letters had been a pretty big hit in the US just 4 years before by Ketty Lester and she reached #5 with it on the charts (#1 R&B). Elvis basically copied the exact same arrangement for his record. He added nothing new to it, and it is an inferior version IMO. Frank & Dino's records were given modern arrangements and produced beautifully with tremendous radio appeal. Dino's record was so good, it became his signature song for the rest of his life. Love Letters could never do that. I never thought it was a good choice for a single in 1966.jetblack wrote:'It Hurts Me' and 'Please Don't Stop Loving Me' were relegated to B sides. 'Love Letters' was a Top 20 hit in the US but did much better in the UK where it reached Number 6.
Andy
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Re: How Come???
More people bought the Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin records.Chucky99 wrote:Hi guys.
I have an interesting question for today...
I was listening to Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra and I just realised that Dino had a US number 1 hit in 1964 with Everybody loves somebody in full british invasion and Sinatra did the same with Strangers in the night in 1966.
Elvis on the other hand had 3 wonderful ballads during the 1964-1966 period which did not enter the Top 10.
These 3 were: It Hurts Me , Please Don 't Stop Loving Me and Love Letters.In these records , Elvis ' voice is far superior to Dino and Sinatra in my opinion.
How come they managed to have a #1 hit in US billboard and Elvis didn't??
Thanks,Chucky.
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Re: How Come???
The charts are always a crapshoot Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra got lucky that those songs went to #1 given their age and the dominace of The Beatles and Motown during 1964. With Elvis none of those songs you mentioned got as much airplay or sales as the Martin and Sinatra songs did. These were the last big hits for both men while Elvis had his last big hit in 1972 so it balanced out. I always thought Elvis and RCA blew it with ''It hurts me'' that could have been a big hit but it was wasted as a B-side but it shouldn't have been. The other two songs you mentioned I don't think anyone thought they were killer songs that had a chance at going to #1.
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Re: How Come???
Last big hits? I think not. Dino had hits with The Door Is Still Open To My Heart, (#6), and I Will (#10), plus he was selling a ton of albums at this time, I remember Houston was all over the radio too but didnt make the top 10 I dont think. He also had a huhely popular TV show, so he was def in the mainstream of music then. Meanwhile Frank had hits with That's Life (top 10),Something Stupid (#1) Summer Wind(#25 and considered a classic today) My Way (only top 40 but one of his most well known songs) , and New York, New York, another top 40 but again another signature tune for him. And before someone says yeah well Elvis had a lot of top 20-30 songs, how many are well known and identified with Elvis as these songs were for Frank? None.brian wrote:The charts are always a crapshoot Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra got lucky that those songs went to #1 given their age and the dominace of The Beatles and Motown during 1964. With Elvis none of those songs you mentioned got as much airplay or sales as the Martin and Sinatra songs did. These were the last big hits for both men while Elvis had his last big hit in 1972 so it balanced out. I always thought Elvis and RCA blew it with ''It hurts me'' that could have been a big hit but it was wasted as a B-side but it shouldn't have been. The other two songs you mentioned I don't think anyone thought they were killer songs that had a chance at going to #1.
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Re: How Come???
I didn't know that about Dean Martin thanks for the info. You are too harsh on Elvis.r&b wrote:Last big hits? I think not. Dino had hits with The Door Is Still Open To My Heart, (#6), and I Will (#10), plus he was selling a ton of albums at this time, I remember Houston was all over the radio too but didnt make the top 10 I dont think. He also had a huhely popular TV show, so he was def in the mainstream of music then. Meanwhile Frank had hits with That's Life (top 10),Something Stupid (#1) Summer Wind(#25 and considered a classic today) My Way (only top 40 but one of his most well known songs) , and New York, New York, another top 40 but again another signature tune for him. And before someone says yeah well Elvis had a lot of top 20-30 songs, how many are well known and identified with Elvis as these songs were for Frank? None.
Everyone has ups and it's downs it's just that Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra had a bit of an up swing in the charts at this time while Elvis was in a slump. Like I said they were lucky.
Re: How Come???
Ive never heard of Dino and Frank being referred to as lucky. They were talented singers who had some good material and arrangers working with them at that time. It resulted in success. Why would you call that lucky? I dont think Im harsh on Elvis. I dont think the songs he was releasing at that time as singles were very good, and not as good as the hits Dino & Frank had. It only started to get better for Elvis late in 67 with Big Boss Man, but DJs were not paying much attention to Elvis anymore, certainly not in the NY/NJ radio market. Ive said it before, he was now more known as a film star than anything else. He really needed that 68 TV show, which by the way may have also helped Frank & Dean on the charts. Dean with his weekly show and Frank with the great string of TV Specials starting in 1965.brian wrote:I didn't know that about Dean Martin thanks for the info. You are too harsh on Elvis.r&b wrote:Last big hits? I think not. Dino had hits with The Door Is Still Open To My Heart, (#6), and I Will (#10), plus he was selling a ton of albums at this time, I remember Houston was all over the radio too but didnt make the top 10 I dont think. He also had a huhely popular TV show, so he was def in the mainstream of music then. Meanwhile Frank had hits with That's Life (top 10),Something Stupid (#1) Summer Wind(#25 and considered a classic today) My Way (only top 40 but one of his most well known songs) , and New York, New York, another top 40 but again another signature tune for him. And before someone says yeah well Elvis had a lot of top 20-30 songs, how many are well known and identified with Elvis as these songs were for Frank? None.
Everyone has ups and it's downs it's just that Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra had a bit of an up swing in the charts at this time while Elvis was in a slump. Like I said they were lucky.
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Re: How Come???
Because when Frank Sinatra had that # 1 hit he was 50 years old and Dean Martin was about the same age. That's real old in the music business and you usually don't see singers top the singles charts at that age. They were both lucky disc jockeys took a shine to those songs. Hit songs aren't only about recording great songs they could just as easily have bombed.r&b wrote:Ive never heard of Dino and Frank being referred to as lucky. They were talented singers who had some good material and arrangers working with them at that time. It resulted in success. Why would you call that lucky? I dont think Im harsh on Elvis. I dont think the songs he was releasing at that time as singles were very good, and not as good as the hits Dino & Frank had.
Re: How Come???
And Peggy Lee had a #1 in 1969 at the age of 49. It happensbrian wrote:Because when Frank Sinatra had that # 1 hit he was 50 years old and Dean Martin was about the same age. That's real old in the music business and you usually don't see singers top the singles charts at that age. They were both lucky disc jockeys took a shine to those songs. Hit songs aren't only about recording great songs they could just as easily have bombed.r&b wrote:Ive never heard of Dino and Frank being referred to as lucky. They were talented singers who had some good material and arrangers working with them at that time. It resulted in success. Why would you call that lucky? I dont think Im harsh on Elvis. I dont think the songs he was releasing at that time as singles were very good, and not as good as the hits Dino & Frank had.
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Re: How Come???
She didn't. the point is that it doesn't happen very much not that it hasn't happened at all.r&b wrote:And Peggy Lee had a #1 in 1969 at the age of 49. It happens
Re: How Come???
I stand corrected - must have been the E Listening chartbrian wrote:She didn't. the point is that it doesn't happen very much not that it hasn't happened at all.r&b wrote:And Peggy Lee had a #1 in 1969 at the age of 49. It happens
Peggy Lee's version reached number 11 on the U.S. pop singles chart—becoming her first Top 40 pop hit since "Fever,"
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Re: How Come???
The Leiber and Stoller ballad peaked on 11-08-1969 at #11 on Billboard's "Hot 100" and #10 on Cash Box's "Top 100" charts, but was a #1 on Billboard's "Adult Contemporary" chart on 10-15-1969. In the end, it is a memorable recording, and your point is still pretty solid.r&b wrote:And Peggy Lee had a #1 in 1969 at the age of 49. It happensbrian wrote:Because when Frank Sinatra had that # 1 hit he was 50 years old and Dean Martin was about the same age. That's real old in the music business and you usually don't see singers top the singles charts at that age. They were both lucky disc jockeys took a shine to those songs. Hit songs aren't only about recording great songs they could just as easily have bombed.r&b wrote:Ive never heard of Dino and Frank being referred to as lucky. They were talented singers who had some good material and arrangers working with them at that time. It resulted in success. Why would you call that lucky? I dont think Im harsh on Elvis. I dont think the songs he was releasing at that time as singles were very good, and not as good as the hits Dino & Frank had.
Certainly, radio had to find a song attractive, and play it a lot, to drive sales at retail, but listener reaction played a part in what the disc jockeys programmed. And both "Strangers In The Night" and "Everybody Loves Somebody" had real appeal as far as the material, and how it was arranged, produced and sung. Note that Martin was 47 when he topped the "Hot 100" on August 15, 1964 (one week), Sinatra 50 when he did the same on July 2, 1966 (one week).
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Re: How Come???
Given the eclectic nature of the pop charts in 1964 I thought it was a mistake for Frank Sinatra not to release ''Fly me to the moon'' as a single because it may have been a top ten.Greystoke wrote:There's always an element of luck or good fortune with regards to most hit singles and albums, although singers and groups with large audiences who are current and popular typically have their best chart-runs because of that. Others, no matter how good their material may be, will find changing tastes and trends affecting their chart-presence. But there's such a thing as hot streaks, and that's something Sinatra had in the mid-sixties. And not by chance. He was actively trying to get back in the top-ten.
Frank was looking for a new, radio-friendly, sound by 1964 and this was encouraged by the success of Dean Martin's Everybody Loves Somebody. Which Frank had previously recorded himself. He contacted the record's producer, Jimmy Bowen, who started the ball rolling with Softly As I Leave You. Which peaked at No. 27 on Billboard`s pop singles chart.
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Re: How Come???
Dean Martin had a big hit in the UK in '69 with Gentle On My Mind hitting #2. It reached #9 in Billboards Easy Listening Chart. Excellent track too.
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Re: How Come???
He did have a #1 hit when he would have been 67!!!brian wrote:We will never know but perhaps Elvis would have had a #1 hit when he was 50.
Last edited by elvis-fan on Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How Come???
Boy, the U.K. sure love their easy-listening music.emjel wrote:Dean Martin had a big hit in the UK in '69 with Gentle On My Mind hitting #2. It reached #9 in Billboards Easy Listening Chart. Excellent track too.
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Re: How Come???
Madonna appears to be the latest "age casualty". In 2005 and 2006 respectively she had number one singles in the UK with "Hung Up" and "Sorry",when she was around 47 years old. Her most recent singles haven't bothered the top 40,even with the added publicity of her Brit Award ceremony accident.
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Re: How Come???
That is very true indeed. I do enjoy Madonna's work and I'm a big fan of Mr Williams. Even other great acts,such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers,continue to release good singles,only for them to disappear without trace. Must be a part of being 42 but when I look at the charts these days,I don't recognise any of the artists. And I've found myself using the middle-aged battle cry of "it all sounds the same".Greystoke wrote:True. Although she was in the top-ten several times after the success of Hung Up and Sorry. But I wouldn't count an artist like Madonna out. She still makes good music. And I'm sure she's every bit as ambitious as she has always been. But there's so much competition today. And it's difficult to really grasp trends or predict what will be popular. And why. Especially if radio airplay and opportunities on television are favouring younger artists who have a strong and active presence.sundial77 wrote:Madonna appears to be the latest "age casualty". In 2005 and 2006 respectively she had number one singles in the UK with "Hung Up" and "Sorry",when she was around 47 years old. Her most recent singles haven't bothered the top 40,even with the added publicity of her Brit Award ceremony accident.
Robbie Williams was actually lamenting the fact that he's struggling to get singles near the top of the charts, too. He's still popular, successful and making great music. His track-record is stellar. But he's fully aware of the fact that digital platforms rule the singles charts, and that he can't encourage enough interest from fans and demographics who contribute the most to hit singles. Whilst neither Robbie or Madonna have broke into that rarified group of artists who court huge viewing figures on Vevo. Which is quite surprising considering how good their videos usually are. Although Madonna does have one video with over 200 million views. And another with over 100 million. Those being Bitch I'm Madonna, featuring Nicki Minaj. And Hung Up. Robbie`s best are Candy and Feel, with 66 million and 65 million views respectively.
But there's a long trend of artists who, despite their success and popularity - especially during their commercial prime - can't always stay in the top-ten or remain guaranteed hit-makers. This comes with the territory.
Even as recently as 2009-10, I still enjoyed the top 40 countdown . Time to reach for the pipe and slippers and listen to Radio 2 lol.
Re: How Come???
Greystoke has it pretty covered, but there were a number of high entries in the singles charts during the 1960s by those associated with jazz or standards beyond Sinatra and Dino. Sammy Davis Jr reached #11 with I Gotta Be Me in 1968, for example. Louis Armstrong's Hello Dolly was #1 in 1964. Bobby Darin returned to the charts in 1966 with If I Were a Carpenter. Meanwhile, in the UK, Doris Day reached #8 with Move Over Darling - her first top ten in the UK since 1956, but the single didn't chart in the US. Likewise, Nina Simone had three top 10 hits in the UK in 1968, but they didn't bother the charts in the US.
Sometimes these things are down to luck, and something catching on. With Sinatra it was down to a concerted effort to try and get a sound that resonated with the times, and Davis's hit also fits into that category,
But the key thing with Davis and Sinatra and Dean Martin and Bobby Darin and Satchmo was that they were regularly on TV to promote their singles (or even just promote themselves). Elvis didn't appear on the Tonight show or the Dean Martin Show or Hollywood Palace or any other variety show of the time. And that accounts for much of the reason why some of his better singles from the period didn't do as well as they should have done - and the same is true of the 1970s. TV publicity didn't seem to matter as much in the UK, and Elvis was doing better there during all stages of his career, but in the USA that publicity on TV seems to have been essential.
Sometimes these things are down to luck, and something catching on. With Sinatra it was down to a concerted effort to try and get a sound that resonated with the times, and Davis's hit also fits into that category,
But the key thing with Davis and Sinatra and Dean Martin and Bobby Darin and Satchmo was that they were regularly on TV to promote their singles (or even just promote themselves). Elvis didn't appear on the Tonight show or the Dean Martin Show or Hollywood Palace or any other variety show of the time. And that accounts for much of the reason why some of his better singles from the period didn't do as well as they should have done - and the same is true of the 1970s. TV publicity didn't seem to matter as much in the UK, and Elvis was doing better there during all stages of his career, but in the USA that publicity on TV seems to have been essential.
Re: How Come???
The opposite is actually true, and the above actually is nonsense, if we're going to generalise. Look at the career US vs UK album chart positions of say, David Bowie or Kate Bush, arguably the UKs most important, original and influential male / female solo artists of the past 40-50 years. The disparity is extreme and quite revealing. As for singles, even if you take as an example just two years when I was a kid, between 1980 and 1982: Bowie's Ashes to Ashes, huge and No1 or The Stranglers Golden Brown, huge and No2, Laurie Anderson O Superman, huge and No2.drjohncarpenter wrote:
Boy, the U.K. sure love their easy-listening music.
Etc.
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Re: How Come???
peter, thanks a lot for your post. It's my opinion also. How many times Elvis promoted on TV his singles in the 60's or 70's ? 2 times in the 60's -Stuck on You/Fame and Fortune in 1960 and If I can Dream in 1968. In the 70's Steamroller Blues (Aloha)-and that's all.
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Re: How Come???
Well, he did have the movies in the sixties and that had to help a few of his singles and albums.jurasic1968 wrote:peter, thanks a lot for your post. It's my opinion also. How many times Elvis promoted on TV his singles in the 60's or 70's ? 2 times in the 60's -Stuck on You/Fame and Fortune in 1960 and If I can Dream in 1968. In the 70's Steamroller Blues (Aloha)-and that's all.