Off Topic Messages

any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:08 am

hi

i was wondering if there are any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:13 am

Damien Hirst

mobile reply

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:17 am

Justin Beiber

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:40 am

The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:51 am

Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Fantastic post.

One point of disagreement: Kirstie Alley is a major artist!

I do agree Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, and their ilk have done incalculable damage to naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood.

We must stop them! Where is the nearest Hollywood Greyhound station?

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:02 am

Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.



Well said.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:05 am

Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Tom Cruise is a great actor.

Born on the fourth of July.

War of the Worlds.

Lions for Lambs.

All great performances, few can potray 'processing' and 'realisaton' as convincingly as Tom.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:23 am

Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


If we stopped taking artists seriously because of what they believed in, we would not be taking seriously many artists. I doubt that many (if any) of the first group of people you mention (Cruise, etc) would refer to themselves as artists anyway - they are film stars/actors, not Fellini. If we are looking at people spewing crap in Hollywood, then Elvis might not come off so well. The problem isn't with what these stars believe in, but that American culture is such that you hear more about their lives than about their work.

As for the "narcissists" you mention, your comment is flawed - most likely because you (and many others) have probably not seen their most interesting work. Depp may have sold out to the mainstream a little in recent years, but he's earned that right (disappointing though his choice of films have been). His work in films such as Edward Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Gilbert Grape, Dead Man, Chocolat, The Man Who Cried and others shows more depth than most actors in Hollywood these days. Likewise Gere, who has made some remarkable films, and has successfully juggled popular hits such as Pretty Woman with more soul-searching projects such as And the Band Played On. I don't have much time for Daniel Craig, but he certainly made films in the past that contain some fine performances, not least Love is the Devil and Enduring Love.

The one man who seemingly views himself as an artist who I think is a joke (at least these days) is Lars von Trier. He is supposedly interested in making important films but, it appears, the imagination that made his early films so interesting left him some years ago, and now he is interested in making headlines more than interesting films.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:09 am

poormadpeter,

Except that I wasn't generalizing about other artists in Hollywood, I was naming specific actors. You may be right that they would not refer to themselves as artists, but in case they do, you haven't said anything to change my mind. Their work -- or their art -- is obvious posturing, shallow, and unconvincing. I don't believe a word Depp delivers and I don't believe a moment in a Cruise "performance."

However I agree with you about Lars von Trier, and I would add J.J. Abrams, Peter Jackson, Kelly Reichardt and Bryan Singer.

mike edwards66 wrote:Tom Cruise is a great actor.

Born on the fourth of July.
War of the Worlds.
Lions for Lambs.

All great performances, few can portray 'processing' and 'realisaton' as convincingly as Tom.


You must be kidding.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:23 am

Richard--W wrote:poormadpeter,

Except that I wasn't generalizing about other artists in Hollywood, I was naming specific actors. You may be right that they would not refer to themselves as artists, but in case they do, you haven't said anything to change my mind. Their work -- or their art -- is obvious posturing, shallow, and unconvincing. I don't believe a word Depp delivers and I don't believe a moment in a Cruise "performance."

However I agree with you about Lars von Trier, and I would add J.J. Abrams, Peter Jackson, Kelly Reichardt and Bryan Singer.

mike edwards66 wrote:Tom Cruise is a great actor.

Born on the fourth of July.
War of the Worlds.
Lions for Lambs.

All great performances, few can portray 'processing' and 'realisaton' as convincingly as Tom.


You must be kidding.




I'm with you on Cruise, Richard. When he smiles, lol, it seems like the most false expression I have ever seen. I can't stand his falseness.

I don't mind Depp though.

The Scientology people are dangerous. Ann Archer, along with Miscavige look quite disturbed.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:34 am

Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Wow. What a bizarre way to attack a religion. You could easily replace "Scientologists" with "Christians" (or any other religion) and come to the same conclusion that they "f--k up a lot of young lives." But for whatever reason it's socially acceptable to bash Scientology. Scientology is no sillier than any other religion. If you were to write a post attacking Christianity for no reason it would probably get deleted. Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion. (Or a right to not believe in any religion.)

For the record, I'm a non-believer but I love Beck's new album, Morning Phase, and he's a Scientologist. Oh, and he's also a really good guy. (Just like there are a lot of good Christians, Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Mormons, etc.)

Back OT: I could never take "Weird Al" Yankovic seriously.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:37 am

Wayne Newton.



Sent via mobile

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sat Mar 15, 2014 5:46 pm

Robert Goulet.

I shoot my TV everytime he's on it.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:11 am

Richard--W wrote:
mike edwards66 wrote:Tom Cruise is a great actor.

Born on the fourth of July.
War of the Worlds.
Lions for Lambs.


All great performances


You must be kidding.


I never kid, Cruise is one of the finest actors of his generation. Of the three films above, in which do you think he gives a bad performance ?

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sun Mar 16, 2014 5:14 pm

the beatles

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:52 pm

InheritTheWind wrote:
Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Wow. What a bizarre way to attack a religion. You could easily replace "Scientologists" with "Christians" (or any other religion) and come to the same conclusion that they "f--k up a lot of young lives." But for whatever reason it's socially acceptable to bash Scientology. Scientology is no sillier than any other religion. If you were to write a post attacking Christianity for no reason it would probably get deleted. Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion. (Or a right to not believe in any religion.)


I think it gets bashed because it's a cult and not a real religion.

If it were a real religion then people wouldn't bash it as much.

Yes, Christianity is a real religion.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:23 pm

brian wrote:
InheritTheWind wrote:
Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Wow. What a bizarre way to attack a religion. You could easily replace "Scientologists" with "Christians" (or any other religion) and come to the same conclusion that they "f--k up a lot of young lives." But for whatever reason it's socially acceptable to bash Scientology. Scientology is no sillier than any other religion. If you were to write a post attacking Christianity for no reason it would probably get deleted. Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion. (Or a right to not believe in any religion.)


I think it gets bashed because it's a cult and not a real religion.

If it were a real religion then people wouldn't bash it as much.

Yes, Christianity is a real religion.


To you it's a cult but I'm sure Scientologists take their religion very seriously. Some, like Beck, grew up with Scientology. If you were born into a family of Scientologists you'd probably be a Scientologist, too. And I doubt you'd appreciate your beliefs being denounced as a cult.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:51 pm

Rembrandt sucks.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:03 am

After seeing her 'performance' at SWSX where she had someone vomit on her, my vote goes to Lady Gaga

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:32 am

InheritTheWind wrote:
brian wrote:
InheritTheWind wrote:
Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Wow. What a bizarre way to attack a religion. You could easily replace "Scientologists" with "Christians" (or any other religion) and come to the same conclusion that they "f--k up a lot of young lives." But for whatever reason it's socially acceptable to bash Scientology. Scientology is no sillier than any other religion. If you were to write a post attacking Christianity for no reason it would probably get deleted. Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion. (Or a right to not believe in any religion.)


I think it gets bashed because it's a cult and not a real religion.

If it were a real religion then people wouldn't bash it as much.

Yes, Christianity is a real religion.


To you it's a cult but I'm sure Scientologists take their religion very seriously. Some, like Beck, grew up with Scientology. If you were born into a family of Scientologists you'd probably be a Scientologist, too. And I doubt you'd appreciate your beliefs being denounced as a cult.


No.

To me and others it appears to be a cult because that's how it seems to be operated.

There have been many ex-scientology members that have come forward and said that they were told to disconnect from any family members that disliked Scientology.

Paul Haggis the famous director/writer admitted this after leaving Scientology.

That very tactic sounds like a cult to me.

Beck and other people that were raised Scientologist's probably won't like me pointing that out but it's the truth.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:03 am

brian wrote:
InheritTheWind wrote:
brian wrote:
InheritTheWind wrote:
Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Wow. What a bizarre way to attack a religion. You could easily replace "Scientologists" with "Christians" (or any other religion) and come to the same conclusion that they "f--k up a lot of young lives." But for whatever reason it's socially acceptable to bash Scientology. Scientology is no sillier than any other religion. If you were to write a post attacking Christianity for no reason it would probably get deleted. Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion. (Or a right to not believe in any religion.)


I think it gets bashed because it's a cult and not a real religion.

If it were a real religion then people wouldn't bash it as much.

Yes, Christianity is a real religion.


To you it's a cult but I'm sure Scientologists take their religion very seriously. Some, like Beck, grew up with Scientology. If you were born into a family of Scientologists you'd probably be a Scientologist, too. And I doubt you'd appreciate your beliefs being denounced as a cult.


No.

To me and others it appears to be a cult because that's how it seems to be operated.

There have been many ex-scientology members that have come forward and said that they were told to disconnect from any family members that disliked Scientology.

Paul Haggis the famous director/writer admitted this after leaving Scientology.

That very tactic sounds like a cult to me.

Beck and other people that were raised Scientologist's probably won't like me pointing that out but it's the truth.


Yes, and I know gay teenage Christians who were sent away by their families in the name of religion to be "straightened out", and a straight Christian teen who was sent to a boot camp (where he was regularly beaten) when his mother caught him masturbating because she thought it would teach him the errors of his ways. And yet we call Christianity a religion and scientology a cult. In the end those words are only name tags. Religion or cult it doesn't matter, as long as the members don't get hurt and they don't hurt/attempt to brainwash or change anyone else.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:33 am

It was always Andy Warhol's intention to not be taken seriously...

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:37 am

poormadpeter wrote:
brian wrote:
No.

To me and others it appears to be a cult because that's how it seems to be operated.

There have been many ex-scientology members that have come forward and said that they were told to disconnect from any family members that disliked Scientology.

Paul Haggis the famous director/writer admitted this after leaving Scientology.

That very tactic sounds like a cult to me.

Beck and other people that were raised Scientologist's probably won't like me pointing that out but it's the truth.


Yes, and I know gay teenage Christians who were sent away by their families in the name of religion to be "straightened out", and a straight Christian teen who was sent to a boot camp (where he was regularly beaten) when his mother caught him masturbating because she thought it would teach him the errors of his ways. And yet we call Christianity a religion and scientology a cult. In the end those words are only name tags. Religion or cult it doesn't matter, as long as the members don't get hurt and they don't hurt/attempt to brainwash or change anyone else.


Exactly. Thank you. That was the point I was trying to make in my original post. I'm not defending Scientology. I'm defending their right to believe what they want to believe. I personally think their beliefs are ridiculous. But I also think their beliefs are no more ridiculous than other religious beliefs (Zombies rising from the dead, magic underwear, 72 virgins in paradise, creationism, talking snakes, etc.). I'm not religious so all religions seem like cults to me. And PMP cited a perfect example.

Tom Cruise may believe in ridiculous things like Xenu but he doesn't believe in talking snakes!

Once again, Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:09 am

Scientology is organized crime that uses religion as a front. The people who run it are not sincerely interested in religion. Their religious status is a means a means of getting away with fleecing naive and vulnerable people. It is banned in Germany and I think other countries. I've seen first-hand the injury that they do. Comparing Scientology to Christianity is preposterous and without foundation. You have to be really ignorant to believe in such an analogy.

As for the list of Tom Cruise performances, they are all shallow, obvious posturing.

Re: any artists that you dont take seriously ?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:37 am

poormadpeter wrote:
brian wrote:
InheritTheWind wrote:
brian wrote:
InheritTheWind wrote:
Richard--W wrote:The scientologists -- Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kelly Preston, Kirstie Alley, and their ilk. They're clever and camera-smart and have sharp people working for them, but their art is crud and they do real damage to the naive, idealistic kids with big dreams getting off the bus in Hollywood. They f--k up a lot of young lives. Narcissists like Richard Gere, Johnny Depp and Daniel Craig. All very shallow people with a narrow dramatic range. On can go a long way on personal charisma and a minimal talent.


Wow. What a bizarre way to attack a religion. You could easily replace "Scientologists" with "Christians" (or any other religion) and come to the same conclusion that they "f--k up a lot of young lives." But for whatever reason it's socially acceptable to bash Scientology. Scientology is no sillier than any other religion. If you were to write a post attacking Christianity for no reason it would probably get deleted. Scientologists have a right to believe in their religion as much as you have a right to believe in your religion. (Or a right to not believe in any religion.)


I think it gets bashed because it's a cult and not a real religion.

If it were a real religion then people wouldn't bash it as much.

Yes, Christianity is a real religion.


To you it's a cult but I'm sure Scientologists take their religion very seriously. Some, like Beck, grew up with Scientology. If you were born into a family of Scientologists you'd probably be a Scientologist, too. And I doubt you'd appreciate your beliefs being denounced as a cult.


No.

To me and others it appears to be a cult because that's how it seems to be operated.

There have been many ex-scientology members that have come forward and said that they were told to disconnect from any family members that disliked Scientology.

Paul Haggis the famous director/writer admitted this after leaving Scientology.

That very tactic sounds like a cult to me.

Beck and other people that were raised Scientologist's probably won't like me pointing that out but it's the truth.


Yes, and I know gay teenage Christians who were sent away by their families in the name of religion to be "straightened out", and a straight Christian teen who was sent to a boot camp (where he was regularly beaten) when his mother caught him masturbating because she thought it would teach him the errors of his ways. And yet we call Christianity a religion and scientology a cult. In the end those words are only name tags. Religion or cult it doesn't matter, as long as the members don't get hurt and they don't hurt/attempt to brainwash or change anyone else.


You miss the point.

It is not the position of any Christian church to do that with homosexuality or anything else.

It is not the position of christianity to do that with masturbation.

You can point to crazy sinful people who go against Christianity and Jesus teachings and make it sound as if that's what Christianity is about.

It's not and those people were wrong in doing what they did.

Those people that did those things aren't being true Christians.

When I was speaking of disconnect and Scientology it is the policy of their ''church'' to do that.