Off Topic Messages

The Beatles: Tune In

Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:40 am

Anyone else reading this at the moment?

I picked it up on my way home last night and it's proving to be an excellent book: well written with several lovely touches for long-term fans. This has all the earmarks of being the definitive work on The Beatles.

I'm assuming the subsequent volumes will be called "Turn On" and "Drop Out"?

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:18 pm

George Smith wrote:Anyone else reading this at the moment?

I picked it up on my way home last night and it's proving to be an excellent book: well written with several lovely touches for long-term fans. This has all the earmarks of being the definitive work on The Beatles.

I'm assuming the subsequent volumes will be called "Turn On" and "Drop Out"?


Which edition did you buy?

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:29 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
George Smith wrote:Anyone else reading this at the moment?

I picked it up on my way home last night and it's proving to be an excellent book: well written with several lovely touches for long-term fans. This has all the earmarks of being the definitive work on The Beatles.

I'm assuming the subsequent volumes will be called "Turn On" and "Drop Out"?


Which edition did you buy?

I was able to buy the basic £30 model.

But Christmas is coming ... and Father Christmas knows that I've been a very good boy ...

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:19 pm

The extended edition comes out on Thursday. Amazon will, I hope, be sending out my download version at midnight tomorrow.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:51 pm

The Pirate wrote:The extended edition comes out on Thursday. Amazon will, I hope, be sending out my download version at midnight tomorrow.


That's the one I want to get. Print version, to be exact.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:11 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
The Pirate wrote:The extended edition comes out on Thursday. Amazon will, I hope, be sending out my download version at midnight tomorrow.


That's the one I want to get. Print version, to be exact.

The print version looks fantastic, but I wouldn't read it. I've got a copy of Johnny Rogan's revised and updated biography about The Byrds and it's been sat unread on a bedside cabinet since it was published. Too big, too cumbersome. In the meantime however I've read books on the Kindle that are equally lengthy. So I'll settle for the eBook of Lewisohn's work, safe in the knowledge that I'll make it to the end.

Good luck when yours arrives. Try not to drop it on your foot.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:37 am

The Pirate wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
The Pirate wrote:The extended edition comes out on Thursday. Amazon will, I hope, be sending out my download version at midnight tomorrow.


That's the one I want to get. Print version, to be exact.

The print version looks fantastic, but I wouldn't read it. I've got a copy of Johnny Rogan's revised and updated biography about The Byrds and it's been sat unread on a bedside cabinet since it was published. Too big, too cumbersome. In the meantime however I've read books on the Kindle that are equally lengthy. So I'll settle for the eBook of Lewisohn's work, safe in the knowledge that I'll make it to the end.

Good luck when yours arrives. Try not to drop it on your foot.


Ha!

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:53 am

The Pirate wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
The Pirate wrote:The extended edition comes out on Thursday. Amazon will, I hope, be sending out my download version at midnight tomorrow.


That's the one I want to get. Print version, to be exact.

The print version looks fantastic, but I wouldn't read it. I've got a copy of Johnny Rogan's revised and updated biography about The Byrds and it's been sat unread on a bedside cabinet since it was published. Too big, too cumbersome. In the meantime however I've read books on the Kindle that are equally lengthy. So I'll settle for the eBook of Lewisohn's work, safe in the knowledge that I'll make it to the end.

Good luck when yours arrives. Try not to drop it on your foot.


There is something to that, you know. (Not the foot part.) But with the new e-readers, it really does make the reading experience not only more pleasant to the eyes, but it also seems to increase speed and concentration. The Paperwhite (both generations) have a progress meter that tells you exactly how fast you're getting through the chapters, and the whole book. I have found that to be really great for increasing concentration. It gives you a "push" to read faster, but also with concentration, so you're not going back and reading the same passages over again.

That's why I really prefer e-books now. That, and the fact that you can adjust the print size, font, etc. to an almost unlimited degree. The only kick about 'em is that illustrations show up poorly unless you use a tablet. (And that tends to rule out outdoor reading, and is not good for night reading.) So if it's illustration-heavy, I go for the dead trees. Otherwise, it's as you said: equally "big and cumbersome" books get read when they're on the little device. Sometimes the medium is the message!

(Or it facilitates the message, in any event.) Now, they have to resolve the DRM issues with books, as they have with music. If it's YOUR book, that YOU purchased, that should be absolutely permanent. No excuses. They argue that you can easily send an exact copy to a friend, so they have to make that illegal, and actually difficult to do. (Though not impossible, although one can lose an entire library of books that way. It has happened.) The thing is that you could do that with dead tree books, too. Ever since Xerox machines, you could do that. A lot of people did that. And there was no way for a publisher to know. So, they're being silly about it. Once you buy it, they should stay out of your business.

rjm

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:33 am

I've just reached the point where "Heartbreak Hotel" and Elvis arrives in Lennon's life: beautiful and thrilling writing!

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:42 pm

rjm wrote: Now, they have to resolve the DRM issues with books, as they have with music. If it's YOUR book, that YOU purchased, that should be absolutely permanent. No excuses. They argue that you can easily send an exact copy to a friend, so they have to make that illegal, and actually difficult to do. (Though not impossible, although one can lose an entire library of books that way. It has happened.) The thing is that you could do that with dead tree books, too. Ever since Xerox machines, you could do that. A lot of people did that. And there was no way for a publisher to know. So, they're being silly about it. Once you buy it, they should stay out of your business.

I can see why they are worried though. I buy a book, a 1000 page book, I can lend it to maybe a dozen people in a year. Realistically, the way most people read, it's more like a half dozen. Who's going to photocopy a 1000 page book? It'd be cheaper to buy another. I buy an ebook, within ten minutes of it being sent to me I can strip the DRM and put it on a website where those dozen people and a thousand more can have an instant download.

I think that the illegal downloading of books is more of a worry than the illegal downloading of music. With music it has always, or for many years at least, been possible to make copies and send them to people. Before the Internet you could run off cassettes, and then in recent years CD-Rs, but of course even though in the case of the latter you have an exact bit for bit copy, what you don't have is the packaging. You don't have the booklet, and it's not on a silver disc with the label, so it's never going to be enough for real music fans. But a copy of an ebook is indistinguishable. If you own a copy then you may as well own the original, and an ebook is a product all by itself. If you have a 'collection' of 500 ebooks, and you paid full price for them, it's going to be exceedingly galling to find out that your next door neighbour has an identical collection which he downloaded for free. Identical.

When my copies of the two books that make up the extended 'Tune In' arrive at midnight, my bank account gets debited with £39.98. What if I wake up later that morning and I find out that somebody has already uploaded the books to a blog, or a forum? I can't even console myself with the fact that I own a better product than the people who get illegal copies, because I don't. I will feel like I have thrown away £39.98. I shouldn't feel like that, but I will, it's human nature. And I couldn't not pre-order the books, on the off chance that I'd be able to get downloads, because Amazon have already put up the price to £59.98.

It's a little bit crazy, isn't it?

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:58 pm

I take your points. But there was a lady whose whole account with all the books she bought, were confiscated back! That's not right, and they never told her why. I think she was British; have to look it up. It went to court.

No matter what, they shouldn't be able to say you don't own them. I can understand the problem with exact duplication.

As for 1000 pages? You have NO IDEA how many pages can be Xeroxed, with access to a machine, and a pressing need. ;)

(Well, books are expensive when someone, a theoretical someone, is in grad school. And each course gives you a huge reading list and they tell you to go to Barnes & Noble!)

But under normal circumstances, that wouldn't happen. And it is a problem. But there should be an acknowledgement that you DO own the book. They do permit you to lend digital books! It goes off your account until officially returned. That's cool with me. I just don't think they should ever be able to repossess your books. That's all.

If you upload an entire book, they should deal with that on an individual basis, because it's wrong. It was wrong to Xerox them, but yes there's a difference today.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:38 pm

rjm wrote: They do permit you to lend digital books! It goes off your account until officially returned. That's cool with me. I just don't think they should ever be able to repossess your books. That's all.

Even the idea of lending books is ridiculous. Once the book is on your computer it's yours, they can't take it back from you. All they can do is, as you say, remove it from your 'Cloud' account until the book is 'returned'. But in the meantime you still have a copy of the book on your hard drive, and you can remove the DRM and carry on reading it as normal. They know all this, but they have to rely on the fact that most people won't be aware of it. You can even buy a book from Amazon and then return it up to seven days later. If I was that sort of person I could get my Beatles books and then ask for a refund, they don't even require a reason. I'd get my money back, no questions asked. However...

The woman you refer to, the one who had her collection removed from her account, might well have been caught out doing just that. I do know that while you can return books there have been recorded cases where Amazon have suspected that people have been abusing the system, and have closed down their account without warning. Nowhere does it say what the limits are, how many times or to what value you can do this, but presumably there must be some trigger point. That's just one of the reasons why I'll continue paying for my Amazon downloads.

It's a point to remember though, any time you buy a book, download and keep a backup on your computer. Amazon makes a thing about you not having to actually download the book to your Kindle until you need to read it, because it remains in the cloud forever. It's why they don't feel the need to increase the storage space or add a microSD card slot. That's great until the day that your own personal cloud is taken away, or heaven forbid Amazon goes bust.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:41 pm

George Smith wrote:I've just reached the point where "Heartbreak Hotel" and Elvis arrives in Lennon's life: beautiful and thrilling writing!


He went mad for "Hound Dog," soon to follow. Lennon remained a steadfast fan for the rest of his life.

"Elvis, I love ya!"
- John Lennon, MSG - August 30, 1972

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:16 am

Did anyone get the new "BBC" release ? I never got the Volume 1, so I'll be getting the 4 CD package. (Vol 1&2 Remastered)

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:59 am

TCB-FAN wrote:Did anyone get the new "BBC" release ? I never got the Volume 1, so I'll be getting the 4 CD package. (Vol 1&2 Remastered)

They're both on their way from Amazon. I already have the original Volume 1, and I'll be interested to see whether the difference is noticeable. Maybe I should have waited for the reviews before buying it.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:46 am

...and the extended Lewisohn book - or should I say books, as it comes in two volumes - has just arrived on my Kindle.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:45 am

The Pirate wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Did anyone get the new "BBC" release ? I never got the Volume 1, so I'll be getting the 4 CD package. (Vol 1&2 Remastered)

They're both on their way from Amazon. I already have the original Volume 1, and I'll be interested to see whether the difference is noticeable. Maybe I should have waited for the reviews before buying it.


PLEASE let us know if they upgraded the 1994 release.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:37 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
The Pirate wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:Did anyone get the new "BBC" release ? I never got the Volume 1, so I'll be getting the 4 CD package. (Vol 1&2 Remastered)

They're both on their way from Amazon. I already have the original Volume 1, and I'll be interested to see whether the difference is noticeable. Maybe I should have waited for the reviews before buying it.


PLEASE let us know if they upgraded the 1994 release.

Should be here today, according to Amazon's "Due by" date, but if you think about the other remasters that they've done it's unlikely that will happen. As far as I'm aware, they've never gone back to the source to remaster them. I guess the quickest way to check will be to look at running times. If they use upgraded tapes then there's bound to be slight variations.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 1:18 pm

The Pirate wrote:
rjm wrote: They do permit you to lend digital books! It goes off your account until officially returned. That's cool with me. I just don't think they should ever be able to repossess your books. That's all.

Even the idea of lending books is ridiculous. Once the book is on your computer it's yours, they can't take it back from you. All they can do is, as you say, remove it from your 'Cloud' account until the book is 'returned'. But in the meantime you still have a copy of the book on your hard drive, and you can remove the DRM and carry on reading it as normal. They know all this, but they have to rely on the fact that most people won't be aware of it. You can even buy a book from Amazon and then return it up to seven days later. If I was that sort of person I could get my Beatles books and then ask for a refund, they don't even require a reason. I'd get my money back, no questions asked. However...

The woman you refer to, the one who had her collection removed from her account, might well have been caught out doing just that. I do know that while you can return books there have been recorded cases where Amazon have suspected that people have been abusing the system, and have closed down their account without warning. Nowhere does it say what the limits are, how many times or to what value you can do this, but presumably there must be some trigger point. That's just one of the reasons why I'll continue paying for my Amazon downloads.

It's a point to remember though, any time you buy a book, download and keep a backup on your computer. Amazon makes a thing about you not having to actually download the book to your Kindle until you need to read it, because it remains in the cloud forever. It's why they don't feel the need to increase the storage space or add a microSD card slot. That's great until the day that your own personal cloud is taken away, or heaven forbid Amazon goes bust.


Thanks. Most people don't know this. That they should always have the desktop app, AND there is another program that will protect your investment. I won't say the name, but it's well-known if you do the research. Not for getting anything that you didn't buy, but for protecting what you *did* buy.

It's tempting to just leave them on the cloud. Or to download only to device, which is meaningless, and is the same as leaving them on the cloud. I just got the next-Gen Paperwhite, and on December 25, will likely de-register my "old" one, and sell it. All the books will be gone from the current device, of course. I have now have had 4 Kindles, including the new one. The first one broke, and I dropped it in the mail, getting a Kindle Touch at a discount. Etc. By the end of the year, 3 will have been cleaned of my books, and gone. (I ended up giving the Touch away. After a near-catastrophe w/Ebay, and the lost time, it just wasn't worth anything.)

So, you have to download all your purchases to your hard drive. Otherwise, you don't have them.

BTW, on-topic. I like this book! I love books that go deeply into the early lives of artists. I have a "sample" which I'm now reading, and will get the rest on my new Paperwhite.

Richard Starkey had a hard row to hoe. Among other interesting things.
Thanks, all!

rjm
P.S. -- I am also starting to understand why I never felt close to the Beatles; they were a group. Simple as that. A band. And I have always felt "love" for certain individual artists, but never for a "band." I am trying to understand that, and the book helps. I even thought "why didn't he write one volume for each individual Beatle?" Which is not his purpose, of course. It's just interesting that I see it that way.

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:22 pm

rjm wrote:It's tempting to just leave them on the cloud. Or to download only to device, which is meaningless, and is the same as leaving them on the cloud.

No, downloading to the device is fine. It's as good a form of backup as any. They can't remove the book from the device, I don't think, but they can stop you from reading it by removing your 'digital rights'. It's still there, though, and you can run the books through a program to allow you to carry on reading them. I'm not suggesting anything illegal here, by the way, at least not as I see it. What I'm saying is, you can buy a Kindle, buy books from Amazon, and then at a later date if you want to maybe give the Kindle to a family member to use, you can deregister it (so they can't buy books using your credit card!) and still let them read your books.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:01 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:PLEASE let us know if they upgraded the 1994 release.

The discs have arrived. I started to listen on headphones, and tried to make A/B comparisons but then stopped because - well, it's no way to enjoy music is it? If I'd had to give an initial reaction it would have been that in all honesty there was nothing to choose, but actually that was after too short a time to form a proper opinion. However I did a quick search and found this site:

http://wogew.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/review-beatles-bbc-albums.html

I take back what I said, it does seem as if there are indeed some new (unbootlegged) tape sources used, which is great news.

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:16 pm

The Pirate wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:PLEASE let us know if they upgraded the 1994 release.

The discs have arrived. I started to listen on headphones, and tried to make A/B comparisons but then stopped because - well, it's no way to enjoy music is it? If I'd had to give an initial reaction it would have been that in all honesty there was nothing to choose, but actually that was after too short a time to form a proper opinion. However I did a quick search and found this site:

http://wogew.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/review-beatles-bbc-albums.html

I take back what I said, it does seem as if there are indeed some new (unbootlegged) tape sources used, which is great news.


Ah, that link is VERY helpful. I gotta get both sets. Thank you!

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:36 pm

I've almost finished the book, it is, in my opinion, the best book ever written about The Beatles, I can't wait for volumes 2 and 3. I thought after the Anthology book that would be it, but this far excels that book, Lewisohn has interviewed dozens of people that haven't told their stories before (some have a lot to say, others just bits but it all helps to fill in the gaps). I find it amazing that George Harrison actually said to the author: "How can you write about the Beatles when you weren't there?" well, he can, he did and I for one am very glad about that!

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:41 pm

Somebody on an Amazon review claims to have read both the single volume and the twin volume editions already. OK, I guess technically that would be possible - although in the case of the extended version, which only came out just after midnight on the morning of the 14th, that means reading more than 1700 pages in four days - but just because it can be done, does that mean it should be done? Where's the enjoyment in zipping through a book that quickly and then going "Tadaaaaaahhhhh!!!" It's like buying a stack of CDs and playing them one after the other while you read the paper, do the housework, get the kids off to school, just bang bang bang, gotta get them listened to before the next lot arrives...

Re: The Beatles: Tune In

Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:33 am

The Pirate wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
The Pirate wrote:The extended edition comes out on Thursday. Amazon will, I hope, be sending out my download version at midnight tomorrow.


That's the one I want to get. Print version, to be exact.

The print version looks fantastic, but I wouldn't read it. I've got a copy of Johnny Rogan's revised and updated biography about The Byrds and it's been sat unread on a bedside cabinet since it was published. Too big, too cumbersome. In the meantime however I've read books on the Kindle that are equally lengthy. So I'll settle for the eBook of Lewisohn's work, safe in the knowledge that I'll make it to the end.

Good luck when yours arrives. Try not to drop it on your foot.


I will buy the Byrds book from you! Send me a PM Mr. Pirate.