Off Topic Messages

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:05 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
I'll never know why anyone thinks Oswald killed President Kennedy.




Oswald did injure Kennedy with the throat shot ("magic bullet" shot), yes Oswald did have a part, but he did not fire the fatal shot. Oswald is guilty, nonetheless, without question.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:10 am

TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:I'll never know why anyone thinks Oswald killed President Kennedy.




Oswald did injure Kennedy with the throat shot ("magic bullet" shot), yes Oswald did have a part, but he did not fire the fatal shot. Oswald is guilty, nonetheless, without question.


Dear, sweet Allen Dulles.

You are bereft of any knowledge on this subject.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:19 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
ranskal wrote:
rjm wrote:I have seen the reconstruction many times, and even got some people to try it out.

This IS a parlor game, which goes in circles.

Here's something I'm re-reading now, that speaks to WHY.

Consider dropping the computer games and reading it, or many good books about the political and social meaning of what happened.

And put down the reasonable doubt games. Because that's all they prove. But the "why"? That requires more study.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4


We will probably never know why Oswald killed President Kennedy.


I'll never know why anyone thinks Oswald killed President Kennedy.

50 years later, and ignorance reigns supreme. Sad.


I'll never understand why anyone can't believe that Oswald killed the President. People go off the deep end all the time and do tragic things.

You seem so sure he didn't do it. The confusing part for me is you quoted the HSCA supporting your claim of a conspiracy and yet it clearly states that Oswald fired 3 shots, the second and third hit Kennedy, with the third being the fatal shot. http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/ So which is it?

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:27 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:I'll never know why anyone thinks Oswald killed President Kennedy.




Oswald did injure Kennedy with the throat shot ("magic bullet" shot), yes Oswald did have a part, but he did not fire the fatal shot. Oswald is guilty, nonetheless, without question.


Dear, sweet Allen Dulles.

You are bereft of any knowledge on this subject.



Oh my word...here we go again....... :facep:

You're entitled to your opinion....I'm entitled to mine. :wink:

It's okay to agree to disagree. Civilized people do that all the time.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:35 am

OK folks, here's another "perspective" of what happened on that day in Dallas by a well respected ex navy seal , politician and journalist Jesse Ventura.

Abby Martin (Of the RT News Network) recently interviewed former Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura, about his new book ' They Killed our President', going over the most compelling reasons why he thinks the assassination of JFK was a conspiracy, Bin Laden's death, and his potential presidential run in 2016 with Howard Stern (among other things)....and yes I highly recommend his book. It is a very good read, indeed.

This fella is beyond amazing. He tells it like it is...brutally honest.....something you don't get with politicians these days.

phpBB [video]

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:44 am

Uh, if I were an Oswald family member, I'm not sure Ventura would be my first choice as a spokesman for his innocence, but he does connect with people, obviously. There's really nothing new in his presentation. And as for Hunt's confession to his son, it was featured in Rolling Stone, and was a VERY big deal at the time. That is not new, and was featured in the mainstream media. There is definitely an element of self-promotion here . . . I think this is much too serious for this sort of treatment, but it comes with the territory, I guess.

This information is all very available. This was the worst cover-up of all time! Seriously. With Hunt's (sort-of) confession - since he did not implicate himself directly, you can see that the cast of characters he named are all very well-known. There were no surprises, as Ventura suggests you'll find if you get his book. (Although since it has this information, there is nothing wrong with getting the book, either. But it should not stop with such a book.) The things they are still refusing to release would serve as corroboration for Oswald's exoneration, but they probably wouldn't be entirely "new." I wouldn't expect "new" things on the tax return, for example. It would corroborate much, though. And some of what they are withholding, or at least keeping as their property in the National Archives, is spiteful. June Oswald, his daughter, can't get her own birth certificate because it belongs to the Archives. She made a number of requests, and it just doesn't belong to her, which is outrageous. This man wasn't convicted of anything, yet his daughter is treated as the spawn of Satan. It really burns me up, on this level. Yes, I am angry about what this event did to our country, and is still doing, but I am angry at the miscarriage of justice, not only perpetrated by the media, but still by the same institutions that acted in the original attempt to cover it up.

The treatment of Oswald, both by the media, and by this country, was disgusting in a nation just barely recovering from decades of lynch-mobs. He was a real person; his children walk this Earth, this nation. And when I get angry about an injustice, I do not let it rest.

A better spokesman is this gentleman, a prominent member of the President's family:

phpBB [video]



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/12/16474762-rfk-jr-very-convincing-evidence-that-jfk-wasnt-killed-by-lone-gunman

rjm

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:27 pm

The author William Manchester once wrote "Those who want to believe that President Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy have my sympathy. If you put the murdered President of the United States on one side of a scale , and that wretched waif Oswald on the other side, it just doesn't balance. It never will."

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:40 pm

Greg1 wrote:The author William Manchester once wrote "Those who want to believe that President Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy have my sympathy. If you put the murdered President of the United States on one side of a scale , and that wretched waif Oswald on the other side, it just doesn't balance. It never will."


This sums it up for me.People just don't want to accept the truth.Its human nature I think.I can't even keep track of all the conspiracy theories claiming to be the truth.The real truth is that after so many years the conspiracy would have unraveled if it was true.Real concrete evidence would have surfaced by now.People just can't keep secrets and keep their mouths shut.Particulary something as explosive as this assassination.Its hard to accept that small little man in the book depository changed the world that day.Its easy to take the events from that day and twist things around to make them fit into a conspiracy.You can do it to anything.Back in 1947 a ballon crashed in Roswell New Mexico.We all know where that went.Its a great example of how this conspiracy stuff works and evolves.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:52 pm

Greg1 wrote:The author William Manchester once wrote "Those who want to believe that President Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy have my sympathy.


Never seen this quote, and you do not tell us where it is from (surprise), but this implies his own government is one of the recipients of his "sympathy."

Keep selling the lie. It's only been fifty (50) years.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:55 pm

TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:I'll never know why anyone thinks Oswald killed President Kennedy.




Oswald did injure Kennedy with the throat shot ("magic bullet" shot), yes Oswald did have a part, but he did not fire the fatal shot. Oswald is guilty, nonetheless, without question.


Dear, sweet Allen Dulles.

You are bereft of any knowledge on this subject.



Oh my word...here we go again....... :facep:

You're entitled to your opinion....I'm entitled to mine.


Right.

However, it's important to understand that some things are a matter of opinion; others are not. Education helps you distinguish between the two. It's not complicated.

Try reading even one of the books on my list, and be amazed.

::rocks

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:57 pm

jak wrote: This sums it up for me.People just don't want to accept the truth.Its human nature I think.I can't even keep track of all the conspiracy theories claiming to be the truth.The real truth is that after so many years the conspiracy would have unraveled if it was true.Real concrete evidence would have surfaced by now.People just can't keep secrets and keep their mouths shut.Particulary something as explosive as this assassination.Its hard to accept that small little man in the book depository changed the world that day.Its easy to take the events from that day and twist things around to make them fit into a conspiracy.You can do it to anything.Back in 1947 a ballon crashed in Roswell New Mexico.We all know where that went.Its a great example of how this conspiracy stuff works and evolves.


It has, and some didn't. Yet, you don't know that. Ever wonder why?

I've pointed out enough paths to explore, for those who care. Good luck to y'all.

::rocks

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:15 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
TCB-FAN wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:I'll never know why anyone thinks Oswald killed President Kennedy.




Oswald did injure Kennedy with the throat shot ("magic bullet" shot), yes Oswald did have a part, but he did not fire the fatal shot. Oswald is guilty, nonetheless, without question.


Dear, sweet Allen Dulles.

You are bereft of any knowledge on this subject.



Oh my word...here we go again....... :facep:

You're entitled to your opinion....I'm entitled to mine.


Right.

However, it's important to understand that some things are a matter of opinion; others are not. Education helps you distinguish between the two. It's not complicated.

Try reading even one of the books on my list, and be amazed.

::rocks




Gee, I think I have.....more than one. In fact I've read over 60 publications over the years (read my earlier post), but my opinion is still made up. :roll:

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:49 am

rjm wrote:Uh, if I were an Oswald family member, I'm not sure Ventura would be my first choice as a spokesman for his innocence, but he does connect with people, obviously. There's really nothing new in his presentation. And as for Hunt's confession to his son, it was featured in Rolling Stone, and was a VERY big deal at the time. That is not new, and was featured in the mainstream media. There is definitely an element of self-promotion here . . . I think this is much too serious for this sort of treatment, but it comes with the territory, I guess.

This information is all very available. This was the worst cover-up of all time! Seriously. With Hunt's (sort-of) confession - since he did not implicate himself directly, you can see that the cast of characters he named are all very well-known. There were no surprises, as Ventura suggests you'll find if you get his book. (Although since it has this information, there is nothing wrong with getting the book, either. But it should not stop with such a book.) The things they are still refusing to release would serve as corroboration for Oswald's exoneration, but they probably wouldn't be entirely "new." I wouldn't expect "new" things on the tax return, for example. It would corroborate much, though. And some of what they are withholding, or at least keeping as their property in the National Archives, is spiteful. June Oswald, his daughter, can't get her own birth certificate because it belongs to the Archives. She made a number of requests, and it just doesn't belong to her, which is outrageous. This man wasn't convicted of anything, yet his daughter is treated as the spawn of Satan. It really burns me up, on this level. Yes, I am angry about what this event did to our country, and is still doing, but I am angry at the miscarriage of justice, not only perpetrated by the media, but still by the same institutions that acted in the original attempt to cover it up.

The treatment of Oswald, both by the media, and by this country, was disgusting in a nation just barely recovering from decades of lynch-mobs. He was a real person; his children walk this Earth, this nation. And when I get angry about an injustice, I do not let it rest.

A better spokesman is this gentleman, a prominent member of the President's family:

phpBB [video]



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/12/16474762-rfk-jr-very-convincing-evidence-that-jfk-wasnt-killed-by-lone-gunman

rjm
The mistreatment of the Oswald family is part of keeping the myth alive and the secrets secret.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:18 am

The quote from William Manchester is attributed to an interview he did with the New York Times in 1999.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:27 am

Greg1 wrote:The quote from William Manchester is attributed to an interview he did with the New York Times in 1999.


I think it's distasteful statement, no matter who said it!

No one is claiming that the 24-year-old Oswald was a "great man" or a great statesman, or that he measures up to John F. Kennedy! Neither do I measure up to JFK. Neither do MILLIONS of "wretched waifs."

That doesn't make him fair game to be shot down like a dog with people cheering! All us wretched waifs deserve our day in court, should we be accused of a crime. That is America. Or I thought it was!

Bobby Kennedy would have vomited at such an elitist, vulgar statement. He gave his life for all the "wretched waifs" in our land -- in his case, by choice.

rjm

Sent From My Phabulous Galaxy Note II Phablet Using Tapatalk 4

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:52 am

Anthony Summers' 1978 BBC documentary on the Assassination of President Kennedy is one of the best films on the subject, even if you may not agree with the direction it takes towards the end.

Contains many rare interviews with direct participants, including the first interview with Silvia Odio and interviews with Dallas police chief Jesse Curry, Carlos Bringuier, William Gaudet, Richard Schweiker, Richard Sprague, DA William Alexander, Warren Commission member John Cooper and Antonio Veciana.


phpBB [video]

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:03 am

rjm wrote:This information is all very available. This was the worst cover-up of all time! Seriously. With Hunt's (sort-of) confession - since he did not implicate himself directly, you can see that the cast of characters he named are all very well-known.


What's really sad about all this is that Mr. Hunt had to confess on his death bed, and not years earlier when he had many opportunities to do so.



rjm wrote:The things they are still refusing to release would serve as corroboration for Oswald's exoneration, but they probably wouldn't be entirely "new." I wouldn't expect "new" things on the tax return, for example. It would corroborate much, though. And some of what they are withholding, or at least keeping as their property in the National Archives, is spiteful.



I do find it rather odd that Oswald's tax return documents were never made public..it would've led to a nice little paper trail of who paid Oswald for his services. Again, the Warren Commission findings is flawed (from all directions) at best.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:09 am

Orville Nix's amateur film of the assassination, the Elm Street sequence.
This film proves that the Zapruder film was altered. Woman-Daughter is missing. At 1:52 Nix has Zapruder on his concrete wall. At 1:55 you see the Main St light pole. At 1:57 you see Woman-Daughter left of that light pole, going toward the bridge. At 1:23 you see the same light pole on Main St, & you see main St, but NO Woman-Daughter part to the right going toward the bridge. The conspirators film makers forgot to add them after resizing.

phpBB [video]

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:13 pm

rjm wrote:Uh, if I were an Oswald family member, I'm not sure Ventura would be my first choice as a spokesman for his innocence, but he does connect with people, obviously...


"The Body" certainly does make for an interesting read/listen!!

Something to keep in mind...Oswald's brother, Robert, believes Lee acted alone in the killing of the President. That is not proof of anything, but it is interesting that at least one family member believes in the lone gunman theory. John Hinckley once grabbed a gun and shot a President, so it's not like it cannot be done.

I still don't believe in the "Grassy Knoll" shooter, because it would seem obvious that either Mrs. Kennedy or the limosine would have been struck, as well. Or, the bullet would've ricocheted onto Elm Street. None of those things happened. At any rate......

The assassination is still fascinating to discuss, and I enjoy reading all of the opinions voiced here--even if we can really do without some of the childishness. "I'm right because I am" is never good enough. Opinions are broad and varied, and I enjoy hearing all angles.

Keep up the good work, friends! :)

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:34 pm

KHoots wrote:
rjm wrote:Uh, if I were an Oswald family member, I'm not sure Ventura would be my first choice as a spokesman for his innocence, but he does connect with people, obviously...


"The Body" certainly does make for an interesting read/listen!!

Something to keep in mind...Oswald's brother, Robert, believes Lee acted alone in the killing of the President. That is not proof of anything, but it is interesting that at least one family member believes in the lone gunman theory. John Hinckley once grabbed a gun and shot a President, so it's not like it cannot be done.

I still don't believe in the "Grassy Knoll" shooter, because it would seem obvious that either Mrs. Kennedy or the limosine would have been struck, as well. Or, the bullet would've ricocheted onto Elm Street. None of those things happened. At any rate......

The assassination is still fascinating to discuss, and I enjoy reading all of the opinions voiced here--even if we can really do without some of the childishness. "I'm right because I am" is never good enough. Opinions are broad and varied, and I enjoy hearing all angles.

Keep up the good work, friends! :)


I agree about the childishness and I hate the cryptic statements. If you have a theory or know of examples that you believe point to a conspiracy then just say it instead of telling people they aren't looking in the right place or that they will see it if they know what to look for, etc, etc.

I believe there was a probable a conspiracy to assassinate the president. There were enough people and groups and countries that wanted him eliminated because of the paths he was taking the country in and his policies. It is possible that Oswald was involved or was being set up. It is also possible they just stood down and let Oswald happen just like many conspiracy theorists believe the Bush administration "let" 9/11 happen. It's also possible that Oswald just beat the conspirators to the punch. There will always be "lone nuts" that want to kill the president and probably now more than ever with the current president.

One thing that always bothered me is that if the "shadow government" (the FBI, CIA) or even the the other powerful groups needed to eliminate Kennedy, why not just discredit him with all the damning information they had on him (the affairs, election rigging by the mafia, etc,) and make sure he wasn't re-elected in 1964? They could have effectively crippled his last year in office and then had him lose the election.
Last edited by eligain on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:41 am

Here's another take of what happened that day, courtesy of Jesse Ventura. Interesting indeed. He's debunking that Oswald fired all three shots.

phpBB [video]

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:10 am

bunnygirl wrote:
rjm wrote:Uh, if I were an Oswald family member, I'm not sure Ventura would be my first choice as a spokesman for his innocence, but he does connect with people, obviously. There's really nothing new in his presentation. And as for Hunt's confession to his son, it was featured in Rolling Stone, and was a VERY big deal at the time. That is not new, and was featured in the mainstream media. There is definitely an element of self-promotion here . . . I think this is much too serious for this sort of treatment, but it comes with the territory, I guess.

This information is all very available. This was the worst cover-up of all time! Seriously. With Hunt's (sort-of) confession - since he did not implicate himself directly, you can see that the cast of characters he named are all very well-known. There were no surprises, as Ventura suggests you'll find if you get his book. (Although since it has this information, there is nothing wrong with getting the book, either. But it should not stop with such a book.) The things they are still refusing to release would serve as corroboration for Oswald's exoneration, but they probably wouldn't be entirely "new." I wouldn't expect "new" things on the tax return, for example. It would corroborate much, though. And some of what they are withholding, or at least keeping as their property in the National Archives, is spiteful. June Oswald, his daughter, can't get her own birth certificate because it belongs to the Archives. She made a number of requests, and it just doesn't belong to her, which is outrageous. This man wasn't convicted of anything, yet his daughter is treated as the spawn of Satan. It really burns me up, on this level. Yes, I am angry about what this event did to our country, and is still doing, but I am angry at the miscarriage of justice, not only perpetrated by the media, but still by the same institutions that acted in the original attempt to cover it up.

The treatment of Oswald, both by the media, and by this country, was disgusting in a nation just barely recovering from decades of lynch-mobs. He was a real person; his children walk this Earth, this nation. And when I get angry about an injustice, I do not let it rest.

A better spokesman is this gentleman, a prominent member of the President's family:

phpBB [video]



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/12/16474762-rfk-jr-very-convincing-evidence-that-jfk-wasnt-killed-by-lone-gunman

rjm
The mistreatment of the Oswald family is part of keeping the myth alive and the secrets secret.


It must be stated that Oswald's brother believes he killed the president and acted alone. Marina Oswald stated that she took the pictures that many conspiracy theorists believe are forgeries. She also believed her husband acted alone but now believes he was involved in the conspiracy but still believes he shot the president. She believes he shot at and tried to kill General Walker. So apart from maybe his daughter (who never knew him), the Oswald family believe he was guilty!

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:10 am

Clint Hill, a former Secret Service Agent for JFK talks to 60 Minutes, Australia about his perspective of the assassination.

phpBB [video]

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:50 am

Very interesting, thanks for posting. I see Mr. Hill believes Oswald was the lone gunman.

Re: More Lost Film Of JFK Motorcade

Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:32 am

KHoots wrote:Very interesting, thanks for posting. I see Mr. Hill believes Oswald was the lone gunman.


Mr. Hill is obviously part of the conspiracy. He didn't fool me for a second.