Off Topic Messages

Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:33 pm

Well done Andy Murray you have done Dunblane,Scotland and Great Britain proud.
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Last edited by norrie on Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:39 pm

norrie wrote:Well done Andy Murray you have done Dunblane and Scotland proud.
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Great match and well deserved win.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:58 pm

Well done Andy. Another great summer for British sport. 8)

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:14 pm

Great performance and an exciting match.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:18 pm

Bodie wrote:
norrie wrote:Well done Andy Murray you have done Dunblane and Scotland proud.
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Great match and well deserved win.


I agree, it's been a brilliant tournament overall.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:14 pm

Well done andy ! had a tv set in the garden watching it in the sunshine with all my family cheering andy on,what a day !!!

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:02 pm

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Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:21 pm

Delighted for him; well deserved victory. :smt038

A few commentators like Becker, McEnroe and John Lloyd reckon Murray and Djokovic are taking the game to another level. I still believe Nadal will be a major threat to them...if fit. Del Potro looks a contender for a top 4 ranking within a few months or so, very impressive player.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:06 am

Nice match. Until he fell, I still felt Novak could come back. But hats off to Andy Murray on a wel-deserved win.........

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:43 am

daylon wrote:Delighted for him; well deserved victory. :smt038

A few commentators like Becker, McEnroe and John Lloyd reckon Murray and Djokovic are taking the game to another level. I still believe Nadal will be a major threat to them...if fit. Del Potro looks a contender for a top 4 ranking within a few months or so, very impressive player.


It certainly feels like a changing of the guard, if nothing else. Federer is getting older, and Nadal is seemingly beset with what could be a serious recurring injury, leaving the way open for some new blood. I found both Del Potro and Janowicz great to watch in the semis (even if the latter needs to mature a bit, perhaps, but our commentary was rather biased so difficult to get the full unbiased view of what was going on), and both are rather charismatic chaps too, which always helps. It would be good to see more of them. What is actually so great at the moment is that no one person is dominating the game any more - there are a number of great players, but all of them are fallable, which I think is a good thing.

As for Murray, I'm not his biggest fan, but he played exceptionally well all tournament, and has worked like a Trojan over the last decade improving his game and his fitness and deserves the win today. It's also, of course, a great day for British tennis, and perhaps more importantly, the win today should insure some funding for British tennis so that young players are encouraged and given the help they need to be the next Murray.

Let's also not forget the great achievement for the UK for Laura Robson, still not 20 years old but showing great maturity in her matches this fortnight (and, of course, silver medalist in the doubles in the olympics) - a very promising tournament for British tennis all round.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:20 am

So much more than just a game of tennis.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... d-dunblane

phpBB [video]




He is now a fully fledged national hero.


norrie

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:17 am

norrie wrote:So much more than just a game of tennis.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... d-dunblane

phpBB [video]




He is now a fully fledged national hero.


norrie



He had me going there !!!

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:16 pm

A great game of tennis and a deserved win

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:57 pm

Murray played outstanding. Janowicz and our favourite Radwańska were in semifinals! Radwańska will be in Body Issue ESPN in July :smt007

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:47 am

norrie wrote:So much more than just a game of tennis.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... d-dunblane

phpBB [video]




He is now a fully fledged national hero.


norrie


I have to disagree - just a game of tennis. Thousands of people have tragedies in their lives, somehow deal with them, move on, and then make themselves a success. If Murray's tragedy had been more of a personal one (for example losing family members in a car accident) and less newsworthy we wouldn't actually give a damn - and certainly wouldn't be reminded about after each and every major win. Yes, Murray's eagerness to do something to lift the spirits of his village after those events is, of course, commendable. But, aside from that tragedy in his childhood, Murray is a very lucky young man - he was given a talent that his family (although not overly wealthy) had enough money to support (including his move to Spain as a teenager), and a grit and determination within his own personality which, although not always likeable, has ultimately allowed him to reach his career goals.

But we only care about Murray and like his story because it makes good news. There may be another kid who lived through the Dunblane massacre, who has worked hard and found a cure for cancer. And you know what? We won't give a sh*t about his story - won't even hear his story - because it doesn't fit our rather shallow view of what is interesting and newsworthy and what is not.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:02 am

The point is not about sport or what is newsworthy or if a tennis player should get more attention that someone who does something really important.What Andy has done for Dunblane in winning these huge tennis tournaments,especially Wimbledon cannot be underestimated.Whenever Dunblane was mentioned or you met someone who comes from Dunblane-and I've met a few,I'm from Stirlingshire and Dunblane is only a 20 min drive-the first thought in your head was Oh,that's where that terrible tragedy took place and the people of Dunblane could sense that and were burdened by that.Now while no one will ever forget that tragic day when someone now says they are from Dunblane people will immediately think Oh that's where Wimbledon Champion Andy Murray is from,cool.That is why it was more important than a mere tennis match.Dunblane can smile again.


Norrie

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Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:03 am

norrie wrote:Now while no one will ever forget that tragic day when someone now says they are from Dunblane people will immediately think Oh that's where Wimbledon Champion Andy Murray is from,cool.That is why it was more important than a mere tennis match.Dunblane can smile again.


Norrie

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Nicely said. And Scots will no doubt be pleased that Murray's Scottish background has been so to the fore in the coverage of his win. Might even finally put an end to the untrue "He's British when he wins and Scottish when he loses" cliché :-)

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:48 am

norrie wrote:So much more than just a game of tennis.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... d-dunblane

phpBB [video]




He is now a fully fledged national hero.


norrie


In the eyes of others, he doesnt seem to show much emotion but the early parts of this video show that his emotions are visible to those that look close enough.

I remember exactly where I was when I heard what happened on that day. I cant imagine what it felt like to be there.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:09 am

TJ wrote:Nicely said. And Scots will no doubt be pleased that Murray's Scottish background has been so to the fore in the coverage of his win. Might even finally put an end to the untrue "He's British when he wins and Scottish when he loses" cliché :-)


It is not a cliche at all...but you are not in the loop and the subtlety passes you by

Here is a little test on Google news, methodology isnt the best but you get the idea
scotland andy murray win - 76,000 results
british andy murray win - 1,800,000 results
1,800,000/76,000~=25 to 1
scotland andy murray lost - 35,000 results
british andy murray lost - 110,000 results
110,000/35,000~= 3 to 1

So when Andy Murray wins the proportion of mentions of Britain increases from 3 to 1 to 25 to 1...

Never mind dude...you'll get it one day

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:32 pm

memphisto wrote:
TJ wrote:Nicely said. And Scots will no doubt be pleased that Murray's Scottish background has been so to the fore in the coverage of his win. Might even finally put an end to the untrue "He's British when he wins and Scottish when he loses" cliché :-)


It is not a cliche at all...but you are not in the loop and the subtlety passes you by

Here is a little test on Google news, methodology isnt the best but you get the idea
scotland andy murray win - 76,000 results
british andy murray win - 1,800,000 results
1,800,000/76,000~=25 to 1
scotland andy murray lost - 35,000 results
british andy murray lost - 110,000 results
110,000/35,000~= 3 to 1

So when Andy Murray wins the proportion of mentions of Britain increases from 3 to 1 to 25 to 1...

Never mind dude...you'll get it one day



:lol:

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:10 am

memphisto wrote:
TJ wrote:Nicely said. And Scots will no doubt be pleased that Murray's Scottish background has been so to the fore in the coverage of his win. Might even finally put an end to the untrue "He's British when he wins and Scottish when he loses" cliché :-)


It is not a cliche at all...but you are not in the loop and the subtlety passes you by

Here is a little test on Google news, methodology isnt the best but you get the idea
scotland andy murray win - 76,000 results
british andy murray win - 1,800,000 results
1,800,000/76,000~=25 to 1
scotland andy murray lost - 35,000 results
british andy murray lost - 110,000 results
110,000/35,000~= 3 to 1

So when Andy Murray wins the proportion of mentions of Britain increases from 3 to 1 to 25 to 1...

Never mind dude...you'll get it one day


Not wishing to cause offence, but could being "in the loop" work the other way and make you think that a slight exists where it wasn't remotely intended? Or is there a feeling that referring to a British victory in some way steals some of the glory from Scotland? I don't think it does at all. Most regard this as a triumph for both Scottish and British sport, just as it's a downer for both when he messes up. No one is in any doubt where the man was born though.

As for the Google News test, I got different results for some reason:

scotland andy murray win - 77,500
british andy murray win - 231,000

2.98 to 1

scotland andy murray lost - 36,500
british andy murray lost - 109,000

3 to 1.

Almost identical ratios, win or lose. I'm sure we could play around with the terms and get different results.

Think about the results though. As Murray is the British number one and his most significant wins also represent firsts for Britain in the modern era, I'd be really surprised if 'British' didn't feature heavily in a Google search about his wins. Every article about the Olympic win would have been in the context of Murray being a member of Team GB, and every article about the US Open and Wimbledon wins would have been in the context of a Brit finally winning Grand Slams. But, win or lose, the vast majority of reporters will be sure to mention that the British number one is a Scot. In fact, most are so vigilant about it that I think they must be aware that people look for it.

I'd agree with you if Murray was mysteriously portrayed as a failing Scot when he lost, with no mention of him being a Brit. Just doesn't happen though. Check the coverage of his Wimbledon and Australian Open losses.

But hey, agree to disagree :)

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:46 pm

TJ wrote:
memphisto wrote:
TJ wrote:Nicely said. And Scots will no doubt be pleased that Murray's Scottish background has been so to the fore in the coverage of his win. Might even finally put an end to the untrue "He's British when he wins and Scottish when he loses" cliché :-)


It is not a cliche at all...but you are not in the loop and the subtlety passes you by

Here is a little test on Google news, methodology isnt the best but you get the idea
scotland andy murray win - 76,000 results
british andy murray win - 1,800,000 results
1,800,000/76,000~=25 to 1
scotland andy murray lost - 35,000 results
british andy murray lost - 110,000 results
110,000/35,000~= 3 to 1

So when Andy Murray wins the proportion of mentions of Britain increases from 3 to 1 to 25 to 1...

Never mind dude...you'll get it one day


Not wishing to cause offence, but could being "in the loop" work the other way and make you think that a slight exists where it wasn't remotely intended? Or is there a feeling that referring to a British victory in some way steals some of the glory from Scotland? I don't think it does at all. Most regard this as a triumph for both Scottish and British sport, just as it's a downer for both when he messes up. No one is in any doubt where the man was born though.

As for the Google News test, I got different results for some reason:

scotland andy murray win - 77,500
british andy murray win - 231,000

2.98 to 1

scotland andy murray lost - 36,500
british andy murray lost - 109,000

3 to 1.

Almost identical ratios, win or lose. I'm sure we could play around with the terms and get different results.

Think about the results though. As Murray is the British number one and his most significant wins also represent firsts for Britain in the modern era, I'd be really surprised if 'British' didn't feature heavily in a Google search about his wins. Every article about the Olympic win would have been in the context of Murray being a member of Team GB, and every article about the US Open and Wimbledon wins would have been in the context of a Brit finally winning Grand Slams. But, win or lose, the vast majority of reporters will be sure to mention that the British number one is a Scot. In fact, most are so vigilant about it that I think they must be aware that people look for it.

I'd agree with you if Murray was mysteriously portrayed as a failing Scot when he lost, with no mention of him being a Brit. Just doesn't happen though. Check the coverage of his Wimbledon and Australian Open losses.

But hey, agree to disagree :)


Your tests are incorrect, "british andy murray win" currently sits at 1,550,000 on a plain vanilla browser and not logged in to a Google Account, otherwise it distorts the figures, the slightly lower figure is obviously due to Wimbledon finishing.

If you are saying I am over-sensitive to it then that is incorrect. I am just observant when it comes to placement, structure and volume of words.

I am pretty much aware that most people in this country know that Murray is a Scot. Yes some mention he is a Scot but with pictures of Union Jacks and no Saltires gives a distorted view. And it is not just as much what people think in this country but outwith Britain. One article in the NYT described him as English on the front page of the newspaper (which caused a twitter riot). And very few mention he is a Scot. Because when it comes down to it, most outwith Britain think that England=Britain and therefore use the terms interchangeably. And therefore credit does not go where it should.

And then you have the scenes from the BBC from Dunblane, with people shown waving Union Jacks and no Saltires when I know for a fact the large majority in that town were waving Saltires. Or the fuss that ensued when Scotland's First Minister was waving Scotland's national flag when Murray won with the British Media being outraged. Yet Prime Minister Cameron happily flew the same flag from 10 Downing St. It is bias plain and simple and occurs in so many places.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:52 am

memphisto wrote:I am pretty much aware that most people in this country know that Murray is a Scot. Yes some mention he is a Scot but with pictures of Union Jacks and no Saltires gives a distorted view. And it is not just as much what people think in this country but outwith Britain. One article in the NYT described him as English on the front page of the newspaper (which caused a twitter riot). And very few mention he is a Scot. Because when it comes down to it, most outwith Britain think that England=Britain and therefore use the terms interchangeably. And therefore credit does not go where it should.

And then you have the scenes from the BBC from Dunblane, with people shown waving Union Jacks and no Saltires when I know for a fact the large majority in that town were waving Saltires. Or the fuss that ensued when Scotland's First Minister was waving Scotland's national flag when Murray won with the British Media being outraged. Yet Prime Minister Cameron happily flew the same flag from 10 Downing St. It is bias plain and simple and occurs in so many places.



Not sure why, but I'm now getting 189,000 for the british andy murray win keywords, and I'm not logged in.

My comments are about domestic coverage mate. I wouldn't expect the foreign press to be as clued up as they should be. After all, no matter where someone is from in the UK, they tend to have a "British accent". That said, the foreign press would be no more likely to call him Scottish if he lost. They wouldn't even think of it.

I also thought the flag issue was overblown. I mean who really cares right? But, the BBC are known for getting unnecessarily worked up about making political statements during non-political coverage. They perceived Salmond's move as political, when they should have just relaxed and considered it as celebratory.

The use of a Union Flag behind Murray in the coverage seems like a different issue to me, as it's a celebration of a significant British sporting milestone, not only a Scottish sporting milestone. It says that the whole of Britain should be proud of it and behind him (even though that isn't always the case).

Anyway, let's enjoy his success while he is around because I doubt there is any Brit coming up behind that will be in his class. The best hope seems to come from the ladies.

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Fri Jul 12, 2013 3:12 pm

TJ wrote:Not sure why, but I'm now getting 189,000 for the british andy murray win keywords, and I'm not logged in.

My comments are about domestic coverage mate. I wouldn't expect the foreign press to be as clued up as they should be. After all, no matter where someone is from in the UK, they tend to have a "British accent". That said, the foreign press would be no more likely to call him Scottish if he lost. They wouldn't even think of it.

I also thought the flag issue was overblown. I mean who really cares right? But, the BBC are known for getting unnecessarily worked up about making political statements during non-political coverage. They perceived Salmond's move as political, when they should have just relaxed and considered it as celebratory.

The use of a Union Flag behind Murray in the coverage seems like a different issue to me, as it's a celebration of a significant British sporting milestone, not only a Scottish sporting milestone. It says that the whole of Britain should be proud of it and behind him (even though that isn't always the case).

Anyway, let's enjoy his success while he is around because I doubt there is any Brit coming up behind that will be in his class. The best hope seems to come from the ladies.


Strange, I could provide a screenshot but I dont think youll be convinced anyways :)

I do agree with you about the BBC...but BBC Scotland are far worse as its full of labourites, they have a daily Scottish put-down story because they are peeved they are not in power up here for once...it is almost like a cartoon :)...

I just watched a documentary on the Dunblane massacre, the people from that town are a lesson in positivity to us all...

Re: Andy Murray Wimbledon Champ !!!!

Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:22 pm

I'm so pleased for Andy Murray. What a fantastic 12 months it has been for him - Olympics and now this.

I've heard comments on the radio about how relatively dour he was in celebration, with a comparison to Gordon Brown. But I'm sure he is feelling great inside.