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Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Tue May 14, 2013 6:24 pm

Joe Car wrote:
KHoots wrote:
nod3million wrote:i dont think Elvis would have done a great job on this song, Coat of Many Colours, too many verses and words. He probably would have done verse 1 and repeated it then thats it!


I disagree. Given a song he truly believed in--such as the beautiful "Coat Of Many Colors"--Elvis would've stepped up and knocked it out of the park. It was a perfect fit for him. "I Will Always Love You," while a fantastic song, would not have been nearly as good a fit for Elvis, if at all.


Well said KHoots! We saw how committed he was to I'm Leavin.



Elvis was committed to "Do not disturb" as he worked thru 36 takes of that bad song.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Tue May 14, 2013 9:44 pm

Delboy wrote:Hey, it could have been both.....

What’s the story about Elvis Presley wanting to record the song? (I Will Always Love You)

Elvis loved the song. I never met Elvis and there were many times I could have. I don’t know why I didn’t, I think I just wanted him to always be the way he was in my mind. I had met some people that I wish I hadn’t, you know what I mean? Not that you wish you hadn’t, but he was just so special, he was so spiritual and out there anyway, I didn’t want nothing to blow the image. So I just wouldn’t meet him. Jarvis was producing him at the time, and Felton was a friend of mine. So often, when Elvis would come to town, they would tell me. I would always say, “Maybe next time he’s in town I’ll meet him.” And so they would always let me know when he was in town, and I’d always make an excuse (laughs) not to go down there to the recording studio.

But at any rate, he had heard that song and he loved it. He was here recording and he wanted to do it, so they notified me and I was so excited. So, the next thing they said was, “But you know Elvis has to have half the publishing on the song. Everything he records, unless it’s already a standard, he has to have half the publishing.” I said, “Well, I’m really sorry, but I don’t give my publishing to nobody. Not half of it, not 10 percent of it, not any of it.” I had just started my own publishing company, and I said, “If he loves the song and the song is that good, then he’ll record it anyway. And if he don’t, well just say that I’m flattered with the thought.”

But I would not give up the publishing, and thank God I didn’t, because that song made me more money than all of the others put together. If I’d given up half the publishing then I would’ve made half the money, plus I would’ve lost half the pride in it. The fact that I wrote the song by myself and published it myself just made the whole thing more special. It was not something you had to share.

It sounds like it was the Colonel’s idea.

To be honest, it was. They say that Elvis didn’t know that much about that kind of stuff. He wasn’t that involved in the business side of it, but Colonel Tom was. It was Felton, who was producing him at the time, that called me about it, and I said “No.” And I never was sorry. I would have loved to hear him do it. He also loved “Coat Of Many Colors,” but I wouldn’t give up the publishing on that either.


Interview with Bill DeMain



That interview does suggest that she was approached about both songs, but didn't give up the publishing on either. Perhaps she was approached about both at the same time but tends to focus more on 'I Will Always Love You' in interviews because the Whitney cover made the publishing issue more significant?

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Tue May 14, 2013 10:13 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Feel free to be as rude as you wish, but the "they were there" argument has been proven to be fallible again and again, both n terms of Presley history and in terms of general research. "Coat of Many Colors" fits the bill in so many ways, as I have already clearly outlined, that unless something incontrovertible comes to light, this is very likely the song...


Fits the Bill... Is very likely...

Your assumptions do not proove anything and in any intelligent, scientific or thruthfinding research your outcome simply would not hold in any serious publication. Why would we settle for less? You could be right though, but right now your assumption is as good as any.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Tue May 14, 2013 11:37 pm

Delboy wrote:Hey, it could have been both.....

What’s the story about Elvis Presley wanting to record the song? (I Will Always Love You)

Elvis loved the song. I never met Elvis and there were many times I could have. I don’t know why I didn’t, I think I just wanted him to always be the way he was in my mind. I had met some people that I wish I hadn’t, you know what I mean? Not that you wish you hadn’t, but he was just so special, he was so spiritual and out there anyway, I didn’t want nothing to blow the image. So I just wouldn’t meet him. Jarvis was producing him at the time, and Felton was a friend of mine. So often, when Elvis would come to town, they would tell me. I would always say, “Maybe next time he’s in town I’ll meet him.” And so they would always let me know when he was in town, and I’d always make an excuse (laughs) not to go down there to the recording studio.

But at any rate, he had heard that song and he loved it. He was here recording and he wanted to do it, so they notified me and I was so excited. So, the next thing they said was, “But you know Elvis has to have half the publishing on the song. Everything he records, unless it’s already a standard, he has to have half the publishing.” I said, “Well, I’m really sorry, but I don’t give my publishing to nobody. Not half of it, not 10 percent of it, not any of it.” I had just started my own publishing company, and I said, “If he loves the song and the song is that good, then he’ll record it anyway. And if he don’t, well just say that I’m flattered with the thought.”

But I would not give up the publishing, and thank God I didn’t, because that song made me more money than all of the others put together. If I’d given up half the publishing then I would’ve made half the money, plus I would’ve lost half the pride in it. The fact that I wrote the song by myself and published it myself just made the whole thing more special. It was not something you had to share.

It sounds like it was the Colonel’s idea.

To be honest, it was. They say that Elvis didn’t know that much about that kind of stuff. He wasn’t that involved in the business side of it, but Colonel Tom was. It was Felton, who was producing him at the time, that called me about it, and I said “No.” And I never was sorry. I would have loved to hear him do it. He also loved “Coat Of Many Colors,” but I wouldn’t give up the publishing on that either.


Interview with Bill DeMain


Again, the 1974 single is far and away more famous in her songwriting canon, so it makes for a great story.


Looks like you pulled the quotes from a 1996 Dolly Parton interview posted here:
Happy Birthday, Dolly Parton!
http://performingsongwriter.com/happy-birthday-dolly-parton/


Glad you found it as it provides more insight for us. First, it is interesting Parton notes "he was here recording" when the request was made. Assuming the DeMain interview was done in Nashville, it proves my assumption about her memory being fallible.

Elvis was last confirmed in a Nashville studio to record in June 1971, before either song had even been released. No, Dolly was not "lying" to anyone, she simply misremembered the events from back then. It is not an uncommon situation to encounter, especially for dedicated researchers.

Second, it is also intriguing to note she mentions the request came when she had started her "own publishing company." Dolly Parton and her uncle, Bill Owens, established Owepar in October 1967, but he sold his shares to Dolly in April 1969. The company was all hers. And "Coat of Many Colors" was released by RCA two years later.

http://businessprofiles.com/details/owepar-publishing-company/TN-000023500
http://www.rolandnote.com/people/timeline/Bill+Owens


These additional facts further point to "Coat of Many Colors" being the song Elvis wanted to record.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 1:10 am

Thank you for answers, the reason I asked this question was that I never heard or read in any Elvis context that he wanted to do any of hear songs. Always love you was NOT a hit in my country with Dolly Parton, but when the version Withney Houston released her ersion it was a world wide smash, few people I know connected the song to Dolly, so maybe it was big in U.S. not most of the part in europe.

So if I understand Everything right, this story comes from the Dolly Parton comunity and have never been told in any Elvis books or anyone connected to Elvis like musicians who played with him and that is kind of funny someone must have remeber if the any Dolly
songs was suggested for recording.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 3:37 am

blue boy wrote:So if I understand Everything right, this story comes from the Dolly Parton comunity and have never been told in any Elvis books or anyone connected to Elvis like musicians who played with him and that is kind of funny someone must have remeber if the any Dolly songs was suggested for recording.


Not quite sure what you are saying, but the story has pretty much only been told by Parton.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 3:51 am

blue boy wrote:So if I understand Everything right, this story comes from the Dolly Parton comunity and have never been told in any Elvis books or anyone connected to Elvis like musicians who played with him and that is kind of funny someone must have remeber if the any Dolly songs was suggested for recording.


Why would one of the musicians bring up a song that didn't make it to a session, unless specifically asked about it? It's not like this is an issue that everyone who was around Elvis has been quizzed on. There's a good chance that most didn't even know.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 4:08 am

Are people refuting "Coat Of My Colors" in spite of the argument, or because of the person presenting the argument?

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 4:59 am

Matthew wrote:Are people refuting "Coat Of My Colors" in spite of the argument, or because of the person presenting the argument?


Perhaps if Dr.Carpenter would just give his reasons for thinking that Dolly Parton is wrong and is misremembering the song that Elvis wanted to record.

Instead of just saying ''Coat of many colors'' is the song Elvis wanted to record and Dolly Parton is wrong about ''I will always love you''.

I've been skeptical of this story in the past and when people want to know why i explain my position.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:14 am

Matthew wrote:Are people refuting "Coat Of My Colors" in spite of the argument, or because of the person presenting the argument?



I'd like to think that no one is being that childish. People are doubtful about "Coat of Many Colors" because Dolly has cited "I Will Always Love You" on several occasions. With the last interview clip posted, there's the hint that she might have been asked about both songs. Dolly's comments are the only real evidence we have though, so who can be sure? There's no session year/location, and speculation about which song would have resonated more with Elvis isn't necessarily very revealing considering some of the song choices that he did make.

In any case, he obviously didn't love either song much because he would have recorded them without the publishing deal if he did.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:20 am

Whitney's version is terrible, she is off key many times throughout that song. The version I first heard was Linda Ronstadt's of her 1975 Prisoner In Disguise album.
The first time I heard Coat Of Many Colors was on Emmylou Harris' 1975 album Pieces Of The Sky.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:25 am

Nah, Whitney is never actually "off key" in the song. She just indulges in some vocal gymnastics that aren't to everyone's taste.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:26 am

TJ wrote:Nah, Whitney is never actually "off key" in the song. She just indulges in some vocal gymnastics that aren't to everyone's taste.



You say tomato, I say :wtf:

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:28 am

Annoying doesn't mean "off key" :lol:

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:40 am

TJ wrote:Annoying doesn't mean "off key" :lol:



I know. She is BOTH.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:45 am

This is my favorite Whitney Houston performance, 3 years BEFORE her debut album:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3CZPNT9GSs

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:56 am

Matthew wrote:Are people refuting "Coat Of My Colors" in spite of the argument, or because of the person presenting the argument?


Good question. We both know the answer.

Regardless, I'm very satisfied with the argument I've presented, and it seems most agree.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 11:04 am

Are people refuting "Coat Of My Colors" in spite of the argument, or because of the person presenting the argument?


Not all - the Doc at his best is unbeatable, a true asset to this board.

However, in this case, the message seems to be that we know better than the woman herself, with absolutely no firm grounds to contradict her. DOlly herself has been quoted for almost 20 years that I know of, always saying the song was I Will Always Love You, and given she's still sharp as a tack, I have no reason to disbelieve her. The thought that we must know Elvis taste better than he himself knew it, and the song simply has to be Coat Of Many Colours just because we feel it would suit Elvis better, or to be more to his taste, is just wrong.

Nothing that has come to light has disproven the fact that Dolly, as the songwriter, got the call about Elvis wanting to record I Will Always Love You, and unfortunately, neither Elvis, Felton or The Colonel are no longer with us to back her up / contradict her story.

The Doc mentions her recollecion about a publishing company meaning it must be 1971, before either song was released, but in all other interviews, she makes the point that one of the factors for not selling the publishing was "the song has already been out", so it has to be some point after either Coat Of Many Colours or I Will Always Love You was released.

What you might say then, Matthew, is it's not the person presenting the argument at all, but rather, the way the argument itself has been presented. "I think I'm right, so Dolly must be "misremembering"."

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 5:44 pm

Darrylmac, good point about the date.

That is why I thought it could be anywhere from 1970 to 1976.

Since he really was getting more and more into country music by the time the "Today" sessions,

1975 could have been the time frame for Elvis' interest.

Also, minor update.

I did go thru some of by Dolly video material yesterday starting with stuff from the 70's, ( I figure the earlier the better), nothing has come up concerning Elvis.

So, I went to the Playboy interview of 1978, and they do ask her if she met Elvis and she goes on and on about Elvis but doesn't mention anything
concerning these songs.

So, if time allows I will make another attempt to find something that might help.

Also, you make another good point. Dolly's memery seems to be very sharp in other stuff she recalls.

She tells stories, usually the same way each time she tells them, and we are talking of stuff from her childhood.

From my memory, I always thought she mentioned "a couple of songs".

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 7:28 pm

DarrylMac wrote:However, in this case, the message seems to be that we know better than the woman herself ...


No one has said this.

DarrylMac wrote:The Doc mentions her recollecion about a publishing company meaning it must be 1971 ...


That is not the point I made.

---

Before you choose to dismiss my research I would appreciate you reading my contributions with care. The evidence may be circumstantial, but it exists and there is a lot of it. You, on the other hand, have offered nothing except mischaracterizations of my words and intentions.

The very fact that you cannot even acknowledge the 1971 Parton single is so much more appropriate for Elvis in every respect, right down to the type of music he was making at the time, indicates you are not truly interested in the subject at hand.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 8:32 pm

The very fact that you cannot even acknowledge the 1971 Parton single is so much more appropriate for Elvis in every respect, right down to the type of music he was making at the time, indicates you are not truly interested in the subject at hand.


The point is what we think of as being more suitable for Elvis is totally irrelevant. The only thing that matters is whether he thought it was suitable. We probably wouldn't have thought The Last Farewell was suitable, but Elvis himself fell in love with it. You're right in so far as Coat Of Many Colours would have been wonderful cut by Elvis, but that has no bearing as to whether he was ever likely to cut it. You talk about the music he was making at the time, but we don't agree on when the time was! If it's March 75, a song about breaking up and broken hearts such as I Will Always Love You was certainly far more likely to capture his imagination.

You, on the other hand, have offered nothing except mischaracterizations of my words and intentions.


I've offered flimed interviews and press cuttings that all back up Dolly's story, so I've certainly contributed to the thread, I just haven't agreed with your conclusion.

At the end of the day, all I can say is that I've found no reason to disbelieve Dolly when she repeatedly talks about Elvis wanting to record I Will Always Love You, and we can happily agree to disagree and move on...

Ekenee - thanks for the post, will look forward to seeing what you come up with. As you say, Dolly's memory always seems pretty spot on.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 8:37 pm

DarrylMac wrote:
The very fact that you cannot even acknowledge the 1971 Parton single is so much more appropriate for Elvis in every respect, right down to the type of music he was making at the time, indicates you are not truly interested in the subject at hand.


The point is what we think of as being more suitable for Elvis is totally irrelevant.


No, it's how a researcher begins to make a proper judgement regarding a historical event. If you don't know an artist's tendencies, inclinations and interests, you basically need to get out of the conversation, as you don't know what you're talking about.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 8:59 pm

No, it's how a researcher begins to make a proper judgement regarding a historical event. If you don't know an artist's tendencies, inclinations and interests, you basically need to get out of the conversation, as you don't know what you're talking about.


Only if the artist concerned is utterly predicable, or only ever is drawn to a certain type of song. With Elvis, you never quite knew what he was going to record, or how one record might move him over another. It's one of the things that has always drawn me to him, and his music. There are many songs I'd have loved him to record, and equally some I wish he'd run a million miles from, but that was his choice. If I never hear Take Good Care Of Her, She Wears My Ring or Spanish Eyes again it'll be too soon, but I'm sure they spoke to him in some way.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Wed May 15, 2013 9:10 pm

DarrylMac wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:No, it's how a researcher begins to make a proper judgement regarding a historical event. If you don't know an artist's tendencies, inclinations and interests, you basically need to get out of the conversation, as you don't know what you're talking about.


Only if the artist concerned is utterly predicable, or only ever is drawn to a certain type of song.


Don't think so.


DarrylMac wrote:If I never hear Take Good Care Of Her, She Wears My Ring or Spanish Eyes again it'll be too soon, but I'm sure they spoke to him in some way.


Yes, and I can tell you exactly which records, and which artists, moved him to like and eventually record those songs.

Re: Elvis vs. Dolly Parton

Thu May 16, 2013 5:03 am

DarrylMac wrote:
At the end of the day, all I can say is that I've found no reason to disbelieve Dolly when she repeatedly talks about Elvis wanting to record I Will Always Love You, and we can happily agree to disagree and move on...



Years ago I saw Dolly in concert and she mentioned the story of Elvis wanting to
record "I Will Always Love You". And blamed the Col. etc...

She didn't seem confused about which song of hers Elvis wanted to record.

And to permanently burn the story into my brain, she proceeded to bring out
an Elvis impersonator to sing it with her. A story like that has got to be true.