Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:41 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Revelator wrote:I remember reading both of those statements. As said earlier, Dylan isn't always the best judge of his own work (the "emotionless trip" remark is contradicted by what's actually on record) and not of Elvis's either. Great artists are rarely also great critics.

I generally agree -- Elvis was highly critical of some of his greatest work.


Frankie Teardrop wrote:Yeah, but that doesn't invalidate Bob's every view of his own career. Me and Bob aren't the only ones dissatisfied with that tour either, as noted before. If he explicitly states that his performances were phony, and he alone would know, who is being fooled?

It's not that Dylan believes their performances are not genuine -- he's really stating that the audience's expectations to see the magic of 1966 redux rendered the gritty detail of the 1974 tour null and void.

It's not far from John Lennon's 1980 Playboy interview, when asked why couldn't the Beatles reunite, even for a charity gig.

It seems as if you're trying to say to the world, "We were just a good band making some good music," while a lot of the rest of the world is saying, "It wasn't just some good music, it was the best."

Well, if it was the best, so what?

So----

It can never be again! Everyone always talks about a good thing coming to an end, as if life was over. But I'll be 40 when this interview comes out. Paul is 38. Elton John, Bob Dylan -- we're all relatively young people. The game isn't over yet. Everyone talks in terms of the last record or the last Beatle concert -- but, God willing, there are another 40 years of productivity to go. I'm not judging whether "I am the Walrus" is better or worse than "Imagine." It is for others to judge. I am doing it. I do. I don't stand back and judge -- I do.

You keep saying you don't want to go back ten years, that too much has changed. Don't you ever feel it would be interesting -- never mind cosmic, just interesting -- to get together, with all your new experiences, and cross your talents?

Wouldn't it be interesting to take Elvis back to his Sun Records period? I don't know. But I'm content to listen to his Sun Records. I don't want to dig him up out of the grave. The Beatles don't exist and can never exist again. John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Richard Starkey could put on a concert -- but it can never be the Beatles singing "Strawberry Fields" or "I am the Walrus" again, because we are not in our 20s. We cannot be that again, nor can the people who are listening.

But aren't you the one who is making it too important? What if it were just nostalgic fun? A high school reunion?

I never went to high school reunions. My thing is, Out of sight, out of mind. That's my attitude toward life. So I don't have any romanticism about any part of my past. I think of it only inasmuch as it gave me pleasure or helped me grow psychologically. That is the only thing that interests me about yesterday. I don't believe in yesterday, by the way. You know I don't believe in yesterday. I am only interested in what I am doing now.

What about the people of your generation, the ones who feel a certain kind of music -- and spirit -- died when the Beatles broke up?

If they didn't understand the Beatles and the Sixties then, what the f*ck could we do for them now? Do we have to divide the fish and the loaves for the multitudes again? Do we have to get crucified again? Do we have to do the walking on water again because a whole pile of dummies didn't see it the first time, or didn't believe it when they saw it? You know, that's what they're asking: "Get off the cross. I didn't understand the first bit yet. Can you do that again?" No way. You can never go home. It doesn't exist.

Lennon was a living contradiction, he said one thing today and something else the next. For someone that did not like to dwell in the past it is ironic to me that he was an avid Beatle bootleg collector.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:58 am

Juan Luis wrote:Lennon was a living contradiction, he said one thing today and something else the next. For someone that did not like to dwell in the past it is ironic to me that he was an avid Beatle bootleg collector.

That's not quite true but, like any intelligent person, his opinions did evolve over time.

If you read the 1980 Playboy interview John explains how he loves talking about his group, an interest that likely extended to collecting the odd bootleg Beatle LP. But Lennon made it quite clear, as in the excerpt above, that this interest did not extend itself to reforming the group and trying to meet unreachable audience expectations. No contradiction or irony there.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:48 am

midnightx wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Frankie Teardrop wrote:But, man, seriously..."DON'T THINK TWIIII-EEEEEEECEEEEEE, IT'S ALL RIIIII-EEEEEEEEEEET"? I can't handle that at all.

I love it!

Agreed. I'm one of those crazy fans that love the 1974 tour with The Band. Time for Bob to unleash more performances from the LA Forum shows.


Maybe on The Bootleg Series Vol. 636.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:08 am

Frankie Teardrop wrote:
midnightx wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Frankie Teardrop wrote:But, man, seriously..."DON'T THINK TWIIII-EEEEEEECEEEEEE, IT'S ALL RIIIII-EEEEEEEEEEET"? I can't handle that at all.

I love it!

Agreed. I'm one of those crazy fans that love the 1974 tour with The Band. Time for Bob to unleash more performances from the LA Forum shows.


Maybe on The Bootleg Series Vol. 636.

Maybe...I am hoping it comes a little sooner than that.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:49 am

stevelecher wrote:I too wonder if, 40+ years later, Tomorrow Is A Long Time is Dylan's favorite cover of one of his songs. Maybe later in the 70's his favorite cover became Don't Think Twice by Elvis.

I also can't see Elvis being that concerned about meeting Dylan. He didn't seem that keen on meeting the Beatles.

Steve L.


Bob Johnston tried to arrange a meeting between Dylan and Elvis and even a record session together in the 1960s but - according to Johnston - Colonel blocked it. Johnny Cash was wiser...

I'm sure that I read somewhere that Elvis and Colonel sent Dylan a telegram after Dylan's "comeback shows" in 1974, but I just can't recall the source.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:28 pm

I'm not sure that Cash was wiser! The results of that session are pretty awful!

As for Memphis 74: no, it may not be Presley's finest hour from an artistic point of view, but it has a lot going for it. Presley sounds much stronger than in Aloha or (to my ears) MSG. If we go by the original version of the album, the hits are given more care and attention (Trying To get To You, My Baby Left Me, Lawdy Miss Clawdy), the gospel element was new to an Elvis live album at that time, plus there were a number of songs that hadn't been released live by Elvis before if we take out the intimate setting of the 68 comeback (I Got A Woman, Trying To Get To You, How Great Thou Art, Blueberry Hill, Lawdy Miss Clawdy, My baby Left Me etc). There were a couple of new songs thrown in as well (Help Me - studio version not out at the time the album was released -, Why Me Lord, Let Me Be There). The album was carefully edited to show Elvis in the best possible light: the performances are strong, the songs are more upbeat than much of Aloha, the sound is excellent, and Elvis doesn't rush through numbers as if he has a taxi waiting a la MSG.

Again, it may not be an artistic high, but it sure as hell is entertaining.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:52 pm

poormadpeter wrote:I'm not sure that Cash was wiser! The results of that session are pretty awful!

As for Memphis 74: no, it may not be Presley's finest hour from an artistic point of view, but it has a lot going for it. Presley sounds much stronger than in Aloha or (to my ears) MSG.


Hah, it isn't the finest hour for either one - I agree. But, Elvis did dig Nashville Skyline...

Memphis 74 beats the sh*t out of poor Aloha!

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:11 am

poormadpeter wrote:I'm not sure that Cash was wiser! The results of that session are pretty awful!

Maybe that's why almost none of it was issued.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:36 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:I'm not sure that Cash was wiser! The results of that session are pretty awful!

Maybe that's why almost none of it was issued.


But, those sessions are not the only collaboration between Cash and Dylan. Dylan also appeared in The Johnny Cash Show in 1969. I enjoy it more than their recordings - although you can not be a true Elvis-fan without their version of That's All Right...

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:33 am

Albert Goldman wrote:But, those sessions are not the only collaboration between Cash and Dylan. Dylan also appeared in The Johnny Cash Show in 1969. I enjoy it more than their recordings - although you can not be a true Elvis-fan without their version of That's All Right...

Yes, Dylan was the guest star on the 1969 debut of "The Johnny Cash Show" on ABC-TV, taped Thursday, May 1 and broadcast Saturday, June 7.

Bob did two songs alone and reprised his Nashville Skyline duet with Johnny on a third.

I Threw It All Away
Living The Blues
Girl From The North Country
(duet with Johnny)

"Living The Blues" appeared on 1970's Self Portrait.

Albert Goldman wrote:... you can not be a true Elvis-fan without their version of That's All Right...

Oh, sure you can.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:48 pm

Not a great lover of elvis' 70's live output. But i adore Dylan, he was a great songwriter and a true poet. Elvis' version of "tomorrow is a long time" is great. Just wish he'd done more Dylan songs.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:11 pm

Thanks for posting the Lennon interview, not seen that before.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:22 pm

Carl Perkins plays guitar on the Dylan/Cash session too, so from an historical perspective it's worth having, but apart from "Girl From North Country" it wasn't much of a success.

Lennon's comments on The Beatles are reminiscent of Paul Weller's recent comments on reforming The Jam. It could never be the same. You can get trapped by your own past. Look at Elvis' later '70's live shows. He was obviously bored with the early hits, but felt as though he had to perform them, and I doubt that the audience, caught up in the excitement of the event, where anywhere near as analytical as we are now. They were watching Elvis sing "Jailhouse Rock" and "Hound Dog" etc. Many of them were re-living their youth. Finally getting the chance to see kid from the Ed Sullivan shows or the sneering rebel from the "Jailhouse Rock" movie.

There will always be an audience for nostalgia, but this doesn't necessarily make it artistically satisfying for the performer. Lennon understood this.

On the subject of "On Stage", I would agree that it is Elvis' best '70's live album, but it's a shame that the release of "In Person" from the previous year meant that many of the fine rock 'n' roll performances from this season had to remain in the vaults to avoid track duplication. It's a great album, but it isn't a complete showcase of Elvis' February 1970 performances.

The 1974 Memphis album is one that I've always enjoyed, but after rediscovering the MSG shows via "Prince From Another Planet" and "Left A Good Job In The City", I would say that Elvis was on better form at the Garden.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:32 pm

I don't think "On Stage" is the best live LP of Elvis in the 70's. "Yesterday", "Sweet Caroline", "Release Me" and "Let it be Me" are not better than the originals. I prefer "MSG" June 1972 and "Live on stage in Memphis" 1974.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:11 am

Albert Goldman wrote:Actually Dylan made afterwords an interesting comment about his 1974 tour: "When [Elvis] did 'That's All Right, Mama' in 1955, it was sensitivity and power. In 1969, it was just full-out power. There was nothing other than just force behind that. I've fallen into that trap, too. Take 1974 tour. It's a very fine line you have to walk to stay in touch with something once you created it... Either it holds up for you or it doesn't."

I hope you forgive me my off-topice remark: I love Slow Train Coming, Before The Flood is average from BOB.


If Dylan said that then I agree with him. There were several songs that Elvis performed completely different than he did in the 50's and I'm not talking about more modern instrumentation or arrangements but the whole way he approached the songs. Heartbreak Hotel was one. He did it like a completely different person with a completely different tone and style. I think that's what irked the musician fans like Dylan and the Beatles. Even if he was singing them with power, he had lost the nuances that were in the originals.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:57 am

rockinrebel wrote:Carl Perkins plays guitar on the Dylan/Cash session too, so from an historical perspective it's worth having, but apart from "Girl From North Country" it wasn't much of a success.

Lennon's comments on The Beatles are reminiscent of Paul Weller's recent comments on reforming The Jam. It could never be the same. You can get trapped by your own past. Look at Elvis' later '70's live shows. He was obviously bored with the early hits, but felt as though he had to perform them, and I doubt that the audience, caught up in the excitement of the event, where anywhere near as analytical as we are now. They were watching Elvis sing "Jailhouse Rock" and "Hound Dog" etc. Many of them were re-living their youth. Finally getting the chance to see kid from the Ed Sullivan shows or the sneering rebel from the "Jailhouse Rock" movie.

There will always be an audience for nostalgia, but this doesn't necessarily make it artistically satisfying for the performer. Lennon understood this.

On the subject of "On Stage", I would agree that it is Elvis' best '70's live album, but it's a shame that the release of "In Person" from the previous year meant that many of the fine rock 'n' roll performances from this season had to remain in the vaults to avoid track duplication. It's a great album, but it isn't a complete showcase of Elvis' February 1970 performances.

The 1974 Memphis album is one that I've always enjoyed, but after rediscovering the MSG shows via "Prince From Another Planet" and "Left A Good Job In The City", I would say that Elvis was on better form at the Garden.


All good points, but as far as Lennon, tentative plans for his 1981 tour included his desire to perform early Beatles numbers like "Help" and "I Want to Hold Your Hand." So it was not a case of avoiding the past, but how one approached the material.

Also, there were two days of Dylan sessions at Columbia's Studio A in Nashville with Johnny Cash, and there is some debate as to whether it was Cash's band in Nashville on the second day, February 18. Cash cut "One Too Many Mornings," "I Still Miss Someone" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" on the first day, with Bob's band. If Johnny brought his group in for the next day's session, then Carl Perkins played. But the day before it was the regular Nashville Skyline musicians*, and they were there the day after.

*Bob Dylan (vocal, guitar & harmonica), Bob Wilson (piano), Charlie Daniels (guitar), Charlie McCoy (bass), Norman Blake (guitar), Kelton D. Herston (probably guitar), Peter Drake (steel guitar), Kenneth Buttrey (drums).

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:33 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
All good points, but as far as Lennon, tentative plans for his 1981 tour included his desire to perform early Beatles numbers like "Help" and "I Want to Hold Your Hand." So it was not a case of avoiding the past, but how one approached the material.

Also, there were two days of Dylan sessions at Columbia's Studio A in Nashville with Johnny Cash, and there is some debate as to whether it was Cash's band in Nashville on the second day, February 18. Cash cut "One Too Many Mornings," "I Still Miss Someone" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" on the first day, with Bob's band. If Johnny brought his group in for the next day's session, then Carl Perkins played. But the day before it was the regular Nashville Skyline musicians*, and they were there the day after.

*Bob Dylan (vocal, guitar & harmonica), Bob Wilson (piano), Charlie Daniels (guitar), Charlie McCoy (bass), Norman Blake (guitar), Kelton D. Herston (probably guitar), Peter Drake (steel guitar), Kenneth Buttrey (drums).


Thanks for the info on the Dylan/Cash sessions. I had seen Carl credited on a number of websites, and assumed that this was correct.

I wasn't aware that John Lennon was planning to perform Beatles songs, but as you say the key to this is in how the artist approaches this material, and it's not quite the same as actually reforming the band. I've seen Paul Weller perform Jam songs. sometimes with quite different arrangements and sometimes in collaboration with other musicians. He has no desire to reform his old band, but these are his songs, and the new arrangements keep them fresh and interesting for both the artist and his audience. I expect that John Lennon felt the same way.

Unfortunately with Elvis, whilst he still performed his old material, he had lost interest in most of it, and therefore stopped progressing with it. In June 1968 when he was inspired, we were given stripped down versions of his older hits that in some cases were very different to the original hit versions, but just as thrilling and exciting to hear.

This was an option that was still open to him as the concert years progressed, but with a few notable exceptions the oldies become little more than crowd pleasers, even though they still defined how Elvis was perceived to a certain extent. I guess you can be trapped by your own past or you can grow with it. In 1968 the powerhouse performances of his older hits reminded people of why they liked Elvis in the first place, and gave him a platform for reinvention and renewed creativity, whilst by the late '70's they were just songs that he felt obliged to perform and amounted to little more than a nostalgic nod to another time. It didn't have to be that way.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:08 pm

Nice to see you back posting on here, Reb.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:18 pm

londonflash wrote:Nice to see you back posting on here, Reb.

Thank you.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:27 pm

londonflash wrote:Nice to see you back posting on here, Reb.


+ 1..... ::rocks

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:56 am

rockinrebel wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:All good points, but as far as Lennon, tentative plans for his 1981 tour included his desire to perform early Beatles numbers like "Help" and "I Want to Hold Your Hand." So it was not a case of avoiding the past, but how one approached the material.

Also, there were two days of Dylan sessions at Columbia's Studio A in Nashville with Johnny Cash, and there is some debate as to whether it was Cash's band in Nashville on the second day, February 18. Cash cut "One Too Many Mornings," "I Still Miss Someone" and "Don't Think Twice, It's Alright" on the first day, with Bob's band. If Johnny brought his group in for the next day's session, then Carl Perkins played. But the day before it was the regular Nashville Skyline musicians*, and they were there the day after.

*Bob Dylan (vocal, guitar & harmonica), Bob Wilson (piano), Charlie Daniels (guitar), Charlie McCoy (bass), Norman Blake (guitar), Kelton D. Herston (probably guitar), Peter Drake (steel guitar), Kenneth Buttrey (drums).


Thanks for the info on the Dylan/Cash sessions. I had seen Carl credited on a number of websites, and assumed that this was correct.


Well, these sites might be correct for February 18, 1969.


rockinrebel wrote:Unfortunately with Elvis, whilst he still performed his old material, he had lost interest in most of it, and therefore stopped progressing with it. In June 1968 when he was inspired, we were given stripped down versions of his older hits that in some cases were very different to the original hit versions, but just as thrilling and exciting to hear.


In many cases even more thrilling than the originals.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:34 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:In many cases even more thrilling than the originals.


I wouldn't argue with that. It doesn't get any better than June 1968.

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:55 am

rockinrebel wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:In many cases even more thrilling than the originals.


I wouldn't argue with that. It doesn't get any better than June 1968.


I like your style! ;-)

Re: Bob and Elvis: Hot Fun In The Summertime!

Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:58 am

rockinrebel wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:In many cases even more thrilling than the originals.


I wouldn't argue with that. It doesn't get any better than June 1968.


What about sept. Oct. 1957?