Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:09 am

kajsa89 wrote:
midnightx wrote:Thanks for posting. Ah, one can only dream of 20 Christmas songs...that Tom Parker was quite the visionary.

Someone told me not too long ago that Christmas specials like this were quite popular at the time and that a christmas album to go with it could have sold well for years to come?
But still I ask: Did the Col consider such a special to be comeback material? Or did the Col indeed see the NEED for a comeback for Elvis?
I have always - well, since I learned about this in the early mid-80's - considered totally OFF target to want a Christmas special at that point in Elvis' (or the Col's?) career. What went through his mind (and I guess the reply I got about the popularity of Christmas programmes was an attempt to explain just that...).
The Singer company wanted it to be watched by ladies who buy sewing machines... That makes sense from that sponsor's perspective, yes, but...sob, sob, how NEAR-tragic!
Well..if he HAD ended up with Christmas songs, he might still have been alive....because he probably wouldn't have revived his career, but become a has-been??!

I doubt he would still be alive - he would have quite possibly self-destructed that much sooner had he experienced the most certain career death a Christmas special would have brought. There is no doubt that Parker was sending Elvis down the "has-been" road. Of course, that doesn't mean someone else in Hollywood ultimately couldn't have rehabilitated Elvis' career at some later point in time, but had Elvis and Binder not followed their instincts, the aftermath would not have been pretty.


KiwiAlan wrote:With all this usual Colonel dissing ...one should remember that without Tom Parker there wouldn't have been a Comeback Special.

Exactly. If he hadn't contracted Elvis into a misguided Christmas television event, Elvis never would have finally revolted and worked with a creative outsider in Binder to create his first relevant project in years. Way to go Parker.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:22 am

DEH wrote:We can't blame the Colonel for everything.

Of course not -- but he was more of a hindrance than a help after, say 1964.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:35 am

The Gospel production number is another great moment. The "Guitar Man" production is good though it's the weakest part of the special. How could it compare to all the rest though? Kudos to Binder for the whole show.

I have maintained in other posts that a 20 Christmas song Special would have been successful, though not critically acclaimed and a return to live shows in 1969 would have been just as huge as it was. His talent and charisma weren't dependent on the Special. His first live appearance in nine years would have been an event no matter what he did on his TV Special.

Shame on Parker for keeping talented people away from Elvis and shame on Elvis for going along with it. His weakness in dealing with Parker is one of the great mysteries of the Elvis saga.

Steve Lecher

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:57 am

stevelecher wrote:I have maintained in other posts that a 20 Christmas song Special would have been successful, though not critically acclaimed and a return to live shows in 1969 would have been just as huge as it was.

I disagree. A Parker-designed Holiday special might have pulled viewers, but it would have also shown us a pretty subdued star -- can you imagine Elvis on camera, delivering "Here Comes Santa Claus" in a sweater and mittens, with faux snow falling behind him? The reviews would have been uniformly awful, a confirmation that the Elvis everyone used to know and love was well and truly dead.

It seems unlikely, in the aftermath of this, that his entree into the live format in 1969 would have been greeted with as much enthusiasm by either artist or audience.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:44 am

drjohncarpenter wrote

I disagree. A Parker-designed Holiday special might have pulled viewers, but it would have also shown us a pretty subdued star -- can you imagine Elvis on camera, delivering "Here Comes Santa Claus" in a sweater and mittens, with faux snow falling behind him? The reviews would have been uniformly awful, a confirmation that the Elvis everyone used to know and love was well and truly dead.

It seems unlikely, in the aftermath of this, that his entree into the live format in 1969 would have been greeted with as much enthusiasm by either artist or audience


Yep for sure/

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:24 am

Doc:

Your description of the Colonel's Christmas special is truly frightening, but I would have remained a fan and the public still would have shown up for live shows. The road would have been a bit bumpier but Elvis would have been just as big in concert. All the people who saw him throughout the 1970's didn't know and love the 68 Special.

Steve L.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:46 am

All the people who saw him throughout the 1970's didn't know and love the 68 Special


i would be very surprised if they didnt see at least a picture in a newspaper or a magazine,or a tv clip.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:50 am

stevelecher wrote:All the people who saw him throughout the 1970's didn't know and love the 68 Special.


WOW! You must be close personal friends with a shit-ton of people around the world to know something like that...

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:54 am

elvis-fan wrote:
stevelecher wrote:All the people who saw him throughout the 1970's didn't know and love the 68 Special.


WOW! You must be close personal friends with a sh*t-ton of people around the world to know something like that...

Indeed.

TV reaches millions of people in an instant. And in 1968 the options for nighttime viewing were limited to perhaps half a dozen channels, tops.

The impact of Elvis as he appeared on December 3 had a ripple effect that carried on through into 1969, his Memphis sessions and beyond.

Elvis might not have even been inspired to deviate from the original January 1969 plan of another session at RCA's Studio B in Nashville, had he made the Colonel Parker version of the TV Special and read the scathing reviews to follow.

Binder and the 1968 TV Special was a line in the sand, and it's one of the reasons I posted that Billboard article.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:15 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
stevelecher wrote: can you imagine Elvis on camera, delivering "Here Comes Santa Claus" in a sweater and mittens, with faux snow falling behind him?



Stop it, you big tease, I love Christmas !






And mittens.


Especially the ones that have the string that go through the arms of your Jacket.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:19 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
stevelecher wrote:All the people who saw him throughout the 1970's didn't know and love the 68 Special.


WOW! You must be close personal friends with a sh*t-ton of people around the world to know something like that...

Indeed.

TV reaches millions of people in an instant. And in 1968 the options for nighttime viewing were limited to perhaps half a dozen channels, tops.

The impact of Elvis as he appeared on December 3 had a ripple effect that carried on through into 1969, his Memphis sessions and beyond.

Elvis might not have even been inspired to deviate from the original January 1969 plan of another session at RCA's Studio B in Nashville, had he made the Colonel Parker version of the TV Special and read the scathing reviews to follow.

Binder and the 1968 TV Special was a line in the sand, and it's one of the reasons I posted that Billboard article.


John, I agree 100% with everything you said because it’s overwhelmingly clear!
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Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:29 am

What are the chances of getting a blu-ray 'Director's Cut' version of the '68 special with audio commentary from Steve Binder, Bones Howe, etc? Or am I being overly optimistic?

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:33 am

EPA4368 wrote:John, I agree 100% with everything you said because it’s overwhelmingly clear!

Thanks!


Bella wrote:What are the chances of getting a blu-ray 'Director's Cut' version of the '68 special with audio commentary from Steve Binder, Bones Howe, etc? Or am I being overly optimistic?

I'll buy it.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:44 am

Obviously, it was good and very beneficial that Elvis did the 68 Special he did. He needed a project to have pride in. I'm only saying that Elvis' career would have gone on if another mistake had been made. He was too great and influential to completely go away.

You guys really think people wouldn't have wanted to see Elvis in concert because he did a Christmas special? He was still a legend.

Steve Lecher

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:56 am

stevelecher wrote:You guys really think people wouldn't have wanted to see Elvis in concert because he did a Christmas special? He was still a legend.

It might have made seeing Elvis in 1969-70 a lot closer to seeing him in 1976-77, if you catch my drift.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:59 am

stevelecher wrote:Obviously, it was good and very beneficial that Elvis did the 68 Special he did. He needed a project to have pride in. I'm only saying that Elvis' career would have gone on if another mistake had been made. He was too great and influential to completely go away.

You guys really think people wouldn't have wanted to see Elvis in concert because he did a Christmas special? He was still a legend.

Steve Lecher


I agree with what you are saying Steve.

I've said the same thing in other threads about the 68 special.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:13 am

Back to Steve Binder. Is it possible Elvis didn't want to see Steve by 1971 as he was probably already unsatisfied, a little embarrassed, with his career path since 1968? The real slide was only starting, but....

Steve Lecher

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:18 am

stevelecher wrote:Back to Steve Binder. Is it possible Elvis didn't want to see Steve ...

It's unclear if Elvis ever felt this way. Maybe, when he knew Steve made a show but didn't see him afterward, he thought the director snubbed him.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:22 am

brian wrote:
stevelecher wrote:Obviously, it was good and very beneficial that Elvis did the 68 Special he did. He needed a project to have pride in. I'm only saying that Elvis' career would have gone on if another mistake had been made. He was too great and influential to completely go away.

You guys really think people wouldn't have wanted to see Elvis in concert because he did a Christmas special? He was still a legend.

Steve Lecher


I agree with what you are saying Steve.

I've said the same thing in other threads about the 68 special.



I also agree that a Christmas Show would have been a success. Not as big as the one he did, and not as good for his career, but still...

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:30 am

stevelecher wrote:Back to Steve Binder. Is it possible Elvis didn't want to see Steve by 1971 as he was probably already unsatisfied, a little embarrassed, with his career path since 1968? The real slide was only starting, but....

Steve Lecher


I think the reason Elvis never saw Steve Binder again was because he didn't have a reason to.

Steve only directed the 68 special and they never worked together again after that.

Elvis didn't become friends with very many people in the entertainment business.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:42 am

brian wrote:Elvis didn't become friends with very many people in the entertainment business.

I wonder why....

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:47 am

When Elvis introduces people at his shows, it's pretty obvious that he has casual friendships with many of them. He's friends with more people than we know. Steve Binder should have had no problems getting backstage to see Elvis. Was it Elvis, or the Colonel, who threw up roadblocks? Would Leiber and Stoller have been able to see him?

Steve Lecher

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:56 am

stevelecher wrote:When Elvis introduces people at his shows, it's pretty obvious that he has casual friendships with many of them. He's friends with more people than we know. Steve Binder should have had no problems getting backstage to see Elvis. Was it Elvis, or the Colonel, who threw up roadblocks? Would Leiber and Stoller have been able to see him?

Steve Lecher


I think he was acquitances with a lot of them but not friends with them exactly.

I read an interview with Mike Stoller where he said he saw Elvis in Vegas.

Johnny Rivers went backstage in 1972 and Elvis didn't even like him.

Maybe Steve Binder isn't being honest about that.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:10 am

Individuals like Steve Binder and Chips Moman who defied Tom Parker and were able to influence Elvis to do the same -- all in the name of producing quality work -- were clearly blacklisted from having access to him in the future.

Re: Steve Binder --> Off The Colonel's List ! (1971)

Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:21 am

midnightx wrote:Individuals like Steve Binder and Chips Moman who defied Tom Parker and were able to influence Elvis to do the same -- all in the name of producing quality work -- were clearly blacklisted from having access to him in the future.


If Steve Binder or Chips Moman wanted to go backstage and say hello to Elvis that's okay.

As a matter of fact i bet if Moman went to see a show he would have went backstage and said hello.