Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:41 pm

promiseland wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:So, after reading Doc's post, why did Elvis sing it live? Because he liked the song when he heard it. Great. Another "mystery solved"

You're getting close ! Don't give up practice makes perfect!
I'm not willing to bet on it , but sooner or later I think you might make some form of contribution to FECC .
Practice in "chat-talk" and pop in here periodically and let us all see your progress!
:smt006


I'm still waiting for your contribution to the forum - other than childish plays on people's names. And next time you do it, I shall hit the report button. getting bored of your pathetic games.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:40 am

I added some slightly larger scans to the original post, for better clarity.

Now, if only I could upload a Presley concert recording from April 2, 1957!!!

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:01 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:I added some slightly larger scans to the original post, for better clarity.

Now, if only I could upload a Presley concert recording from April 2, 1957!!!


Are they scans of your own? Or ones you got from someone elses work on google?

I'm so glad you don't have an ATHENS password. Nothing would be safe if you ever got your hands on google scholar.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:46 am

poormadpeter wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:I added some slightly larger scans to the original post, for better clarity.

Now, if only I could upload a Presley concert recording from April 2, 1957!!!


Are they scans of your own? Or ones you got from someone elses work on google?

I'm so glad you don't have an ATHENS password. Nothing would be safe if you ever got your hands on google scholar.

You revive a year old thread just to bash on DJC ?? Are you that jealous of him?
Thank God for the internet service, since everyone Punked YOU in school for 12 years like a little Bitch , now you can be a "big man" behind the keyboard to re-live the your manhood you never had in your school days.
::rocks

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:11 pm

.
Last edited by rjm on Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:00 pm

promiseland wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:I added some slightly larger scans to the original post, for better clarity.

Now, if only I could upload a Presley concert recording from April 2, 1957!!!


Are they scans of your own? Or ones you got from someone elses work on google?

I'm so glad you don't have an ATHENS password. Nothing would be safe if you ever got your hands on google scholar.

You revive a year old thread just to bash on DJC ?? Are you that jealous of him?
Thank God for the internet service, since everyone Punked YOU in school for 12 years like a little Bitch , now you can be a "big man" behind the keyboard to re-live the your manhood you never had in your school days.
::rocks


No, I revived nothing. The Doc revived the thread - check the time and date of his post above mine. Now go and lie down, take your tablets and have a little sleep.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:21 pm

Ok goodnight! :smt006

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:35 pm

promiseland wrote:Ok goodnight! :smt006


an apology would be nice.

"Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:23 pm

Somehow missed this thread first time around. Very interesting. Thanks Doc.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:43 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike C wrote:Back to Elvis Presley Music's ownership of the song, perhaps Freddy Beinstock made a deal with the songwriters for publishing in preparation for the January 1957 sesions and/or the Loving You soundtrack. Remember, Freddy tried slipping in Hill & Range's copyrighted version of "Peter Cottontail" into the Loving You sessions and Elvis angrily dismissed it.

If Elvis' publishing landed a piece of "Butterfly," Freddy Bienstock might have been involved. Or it could have been handled by Jean or Julian Aberbach, who built Hill and Range Songs.

However, whatever deal was made, it did not supersede Charlie Gracie or Andy Williams' recordings, pressed in January 1957. This fact alone is probably why "Butterfly" was not on the music stand at Paramount's Scoring Stage on January 15.

What probably grabbed Presley's attention during his March-April your was the fact that "Butterfly" was a huge hit, all over the radio.


Shouldn't we then be criticising Elvis for performing a song which had been a hit less than a year earlier? After all, that was the basis of your argument when criticising the Today album, was it not?

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:17 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike C wrote:Back to Elvis Presley Music's ownership of the song, perhaps Freddy Beinstock made a deal with the songwriters for publishing in preparation for the January 1957 sesions and/or the Loving You soundtrack. Remember, Freddy tried slipping in Hill & Range's copyrighted version of "Peter Cottontail" into the Loving You sessions and Elvis angrily dismissed it.

If Elvis' publishing landed a piece of "Butterfly," Freddy Bienstock might have been involved. Or it could have been handled by Jean or Julian Aberbach, who built Hill and Range Songs.

However, whatever deal was made, it did not supersede Charlie Gracie or Andy Williams' recordings, pressed in January 1957. This fact alone is probably why "Butterfly" was not on the music stand at Paramount's Scoring Stage on January 15.

What probably grabbed Presley's attention during his March-April your was the fact that "Butterfly" was a huge hit, all over the radio.


Shouldn't we then be criticising Elvis for performing a song which had been a hit less than a year earlier? After all, that was the basis of your argument when criticising the Today album, was it not?


WTF? What's your problem? Sit back and relax, take a chill pill, or fly to California and have a sit down with the Doc.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:38 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike C wrote:Back to Elvis Presley Music's ownership of the song, perhaps Freddy Beinstock made a deal with the songwriters for publishing in preparation for the January 1957 sesions and/or the Loving You soundtrack. Remember, Freddy tried slipping in Hill & Range's copyrighted version of "Peter Cottontail" into the Loving You sessions and Elvis angrily dismissed it.

If Elvis' publishing landed a piece of "Butterfly," Freddy Bienstock might have been involved. Or it could have been handled by Jean or Julian Aberbach, who built Hill and Range Songs.

However, whatever deal was made, it did not supersede Charlie Gracie or Andy Williams' recordings, pressed in January 1957. This fact alone is probably why "Butterfly" was not on the music stand at Paramount's Scoring Stage on January 15.

What probably grabbed Presley's attention during his March-April your was the fact that "Butterfly" was a huge hit, all over the radio.


Shouldn't we then be criticising Elvis for performing a song which had been a hit less than a year earlier? After all, that was the basis of your argument when criticising the Today album, was it not?


Not really. Elvis Presley in 1957 was someone who was full of optimism and, if not in his prime, was pretty close to it. Elvis Presley in 1975 was well past his prime and on a downward spiral, both personally and musically.

Elvis performing a song in 1957 (current hit or not) and Elvis performing a song in 1975 is like night and day.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:51 pm

paulsweeney wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike C wrote:Back to Elvis Presley Music's ownership of the song, perhaps Freddy Beinstock made a deal with the songwriters for publishing in preparation for the January 1957 sesions and/or the Loving You soundtrack. Remember, Freddy tried slipping in Hill & Range's copyrighted version of "Peter Cottontail" into the Loving You sessions and Elvis angrily dismissed it.

If Elvis' publishing landed a piece of "Butterfly," Freddy Bienstock might have been involved. Or it could have been handled by Jean or Julian Aberbach, who built Hill and Range Songs.

However, whatever deal was made, it did not supersede Charlie Gracie or Andy Williams' recordings, pressed in January 1957. This fact alone is probably why "Butterfly" was not on the music stand at Paramount's Scoring Stage on January 15.

What probably grabbed Presley's attention during his March-April your was the fact that "Butterfly" was a huge hit, all over the radio.


Shouldn't we then be criticising Elvis for performing a song which had been a hit less than a year earlier? After all, that was the basis of your argument when criticising the Today album, was it not?


WTF? What's your problem? Sit back and relax, take a chill pill, or fly to California and have a sit down with the Doc.


Nope. All I am doing is presenting the same argument that was presented by the Doc to others on a different thread - that Elvis should not have been covering recent hits by other artists. If that argument goes for later in his career when he had nothing to prove, then it goes for earlier in his career too. My point here is that Elvis was covering recent hits throughout his entire career, not just in the latter stages as some would have us believe. What's more, with Butterfly, he would have been covering a recent hit which was in turn a clone of one of his own hits. Hardly what you would expect from someone at the top of his game.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:53 pm

memfisking wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Mike C wrote:Back to Elvis Presley Music's ownership of the song, perhaps Freddy Beinstock made a deal with the songwriters for publishing in preparation for the January 1957 sesions and/or the Loving You soundtrack. Remember, Freddy tried slipping in Hill & Range's copyrighted version of "Peter Cottontail" into the Loving You sessions and Elvis angrily dismissed it.

If Elvis' publishing landed a piece of "Butterfly," Freddy Bienstock might have been involved. Or it could have been handled by Jean or Julian Aberbach, who built Hill and Range Songs.

However, whatever deal was made, it did not supersede Charlie Gracie or Andy Williams' recordings, pressed in January 1957. This fact alone is probably why "Butterfly" was not on the music stand at Paramount's Scoring Stage on January 15.

What probably grabbed Presley's attention during his March-April your was the fact that "Butterfly" was a huge hit, all over the radio.


Shouldn't we then be criticising Elvis for performing a song which had been a hit less than a year earlier? After all, that was the basis of your argument when criticising the Today album, was it not?


Not really. Elvis Presley in 1957 was someone who was full of optimism and, if not in his prime, was pretty close to it. Elvis Presley in 1975 was well past his prime and on a downward spiral, both personally and musically.

Elvis performing a song in 1957 (current hit or not) and Elvis performing a song in 1975 is like night and day.


The quality of performance is not my point - we are in no position to judge his Butterfly anyway. What I am judging his choice of material. If an artist at the top of his game (when he was supposedly leading others) is choosing this kind of material and not being criticised for it, then an artist who has been in the business for 20 years can't be criticised for doing exactly the same thing.

Re:

Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:17 pm

paulsweeney wrote:Somehow missed this thread first time around. Very interesting. Thanks Doc.


You're welcome. The elusive recordings from Toronto are still on my radar. His sets that Tuesday were concise, and offered some surprises.

Elvis Presley
Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, ONT
Tuesday, April 2, 1957 (first show)

Heartbreak Hotel
Long Tall Sally
Don't Be Cruel
Love Me
That's When Your Heartaches Begin
Blueberry Hill
Too Much
Butterfly --> cover of Charlie Gracie's single, then #1 in the charts
One Night --> cover of Smiley Lewis' 1956 R&B hit, already recorded by EP in February, but released in 1958
Hound Dog


Elvis Presley
Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto, ONT
Tuesday, April 2, 1957 (second show)

Heartbreak Hotel
Long Tall Sally
Don't Be Cruel
Love Me
That's When Your Heartaches Begin
Blueberry Hill
Too Much
Butterfly --> another cover of Charlie Gracie's single, then #1 in the charts
Hound Dog


Two snippets of the later Toronto performance are found here:

When All Was Kool ("Heartbreak Hotel")
Elvis: A Legendary Performer, Volume 6 ("Hound Dog").

Here's a fairly complete review of the early gig, published the next day:

23,000 See Elvis - Late Show 15,000, His Largest Ever
Toronto Star, Wednesday, April 3, 1957

Crowds estimated at 8,000 and 15,000 persons jammed Maple Leaf Gardens last night as Elvis Presley gave his first and second Canadian shows. Col. Tom Parker, Presley's manager, said the second-show crowd was the largest Presley has ever faced in a personal appearance. "I think Toronto audiences are terrific," Col. Parker said.

But if the Toronto audience was the largest Elvis has ever faced, to all reports it was also one of the quietest and best-behaved audiences ever to watch Elvis in action. Members of the troupe said the whooping and hollering and shenanigans just didn't compare to what they had seen in other cities. However, they gave part of the credit for this to the 90 special constables on duty and to the alert Gardens' staff.

Whenever a youngster bounced up in his seat a policeman would reach over and plunk him down again. This sometimes gave the Gardens the appearance of a large jack-in-the-box, but it seemed to have the desired effect. Two women fans were ejected late in the second performance when they tried to break through 20 policemen and as many Maple Leaf Gardens attendants to reach the stage. Frankie Trent, who leads off the Presley show with a tap dance routine, said he had heard a lot more heckling than was usual in most towns. "But the kids didn't screech and run around as much as they did in other places," he said.

Same Everywhere

Elvis himself didn't notice anything different about Toronto teenagers. "Teenagers are the same everywhere," was his only comment, but although Toronto teenagers may have been quieter and better behaved than teenagers elsewhere, they managed to disappoint anyone who came to hear Elvis sing.

From the time Elvis, dressed in his all-gold suit, walked on stage and smiled until he gave his last bump nearly an hour later, nearly every teenager in the place screeched at the top of his lungs. Despite a good public address system Elvis managed to get across only the occasional note that the audience could hear. However, this didn't seem to matter to most of these present.


ASC00838.jpg


Every time Elvis reached out his arm in one direction or turned to smile in another, all the crowd in that section would screech with ecstasy. One girl got out of her seat and ran down the aisle. Col. Parker and a few policemen pulled her away as she tried to clamber onstage and touch Elvis.

Busy With Cameras

About one-third of those present had flash cameras and each time Elvis made a slight turn that side of the auditorium would light up as hundreds of flashbulbs went off. The show's manager told the crowd they could take as many pictures as they liked and no one needed a further invitation.

When Presley made his first appearance on stage the lights were dimmed. But so many flash-cameras went off at once that one could see clearly even in the grays. Throughout the show flash after flash went off. About the only thing comparable to this seen in the Gardens is the matchlight demonstration at a rodeo when everyone present is asked to light a match in memory of cowboys who have gone to the last round-up.

Noise Was Deafening

Clean-up men trundled away several boxes full of flashbulbs between the first and second shows.The noise, too, was deafening from start to finish. During the first show when Josh King, local disc jockey, first announced Elvis was coming, the audience hollered for about 30 straight seconds. At this point, an attendant rushed up on stage and quieted the crowd. "Elvis isn't coming yet," he said. "Elvis doesn't think you're making enough noise."


ASC00840.jpg


Somewhat surprised, the crowd seemed determined to prove that their lungs were capable of even louder noises. They thereupon screeched for a full two minutes. Apparently the word got around between shows, for the second show audience needed no second invitation. They screamed for the full hour that Elvis was on stage. Although television cameras cut Elvis off at the waist when he appeared on the Ed Sullivan show, Presley himself appears to have no qualms about making gyrations when he's doing a live show.

Cuddles Mike

He cuddles the mike as he sings, tilting it at weird angles and dragging it along behind him, and he wanders back and forth across the stage. At the start of the first performance last night he grabbed the mike with such eagerness it came off in his hand.

He picks up his guitar and twangs at it once or twice and then discards it again. After two or three numbers, when he warms up, he takes it and throws it away. There was a delay for several minutes last night when it was announced that Elvis had broken a guitar string. Since he never actually plays the instrument there appeared to be little reason for delay.

The much publicized pelvis was plainly in action, too. Elvis rocks his hips back and forth. He shakes his knees and wobbles his legs and bumps like a fan dancer. He throws out one arm and then the other; and sometimes he even gets down on his knees and leans forward at the audience. At times he even balances on both toes with his knees forward, hips wiggling and chest thrown out. The position appears physically impossible to hold; but Elvis manages to stay that way for 15 or 20 seconds.


ASC00845.jpg


Each time he reached an arm out in any direction, all the teenagers in that section of the crowd would jump up and throw their arms out, screaming at him. "He's fantabulous," said one teenager. Twenty-three thousand others apparently agree.

Presley's own part of the show, which lasted nearly an hour, included nearly every hit recording he has ever done. He started with "Heartbreak Hotel," rolled into "Long, Tall Sally," "'Don't Be Cruel" (his favorite) and kept on with tunes like "Love Me" and his latest release, "That's When Your Heartaches Begin." He even stole a book from rival Fats Domino by singing the popular rhythm and blues number, "Blueberry Hill." Others included "Too Much" and "Butterfly."

Tenor is Booed

Although the crowd didn't seem to appreciate most of the acts that took up the first part of the Presley show, even booing Irish tenor Frankie Connors, Elvis is actually backed by a good rock-and-roll type show. The Jordanaires, who back Presley in his "Peace In The Valley" record and also backed Sonny James' popular "Young Love," received second top billing. The quartet, the only other number to get a really good audience reaction, consists of Hugh Jarrett, Gordon Stoker, Neil Matthews and Hoyt Hawkins. They sang hit tunes, "Party Doll," "Young Love," and their record not yet released in Canada, "Walk Away." They also provide musical background for Elvis' gyrations on stage.

Other numbers on the show include Frankie Trent, who tap dances rock-and-roll; Pat Kelly, an attractive blonde who hustles on and off stopping long enough to sing "I Dreamed;" Jimmy James, who plays the banjo; and comic Rex Marlowe.

Marlowe, who does an imitation of a lady doffing a girdle ("That's how they invented rock-and-roll") also appeared to draw few laughs from the crowd.

A noticeable absence from the evening's performance was Presley's popular "Blue Suede Shoes." "I have five pair of blue suede shoes at home, but I never wear them," said Elvis. "That kind of thing gets worn out after a while," he admitted.

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/ccshowrev7.html

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Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:39 am

KiwiAlan wrote:What on earth are doing dragging up your post of a year ago?

Want to wallow in those
'thank you, doc"

posts over again and over again

Kiwialan, you are such a pain in the arse. All your posts are so way off the mark to whats actually being said. Thanks Dic for a great post . Lets hope that one day a tape will turn up of a live show from 1957.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:39 am

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:What on earth are doing dragging up your post of a year ago?

Want to wallow in those
'thank you, doc"

posts over again and over again

Thanks Dic for a great post .



Yeah, thanks Dic.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:42 am

mysterytrainrideson wrote:Thanks Doc for a great post . Lets hope that one day a tape will turn up of a live show from 1957.


You're welcome. I, too, hope for a live 1957 show. In fact, I've been hoping for years.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:38 am

Oh, God. That did not end well. :facep:

___
Anyway, if people remember their Hopkins, Marion Keisker discussed this "bad habit" of Elvis in the Sun days. She said he always wanted to sing something new he'd heard on the jukebox, or the radio, and they had to tell him "no," do something else, something new, something creative. Which he did. He just had to be nudged a little in that direction, and he would gather up his wellspring of musical knowledge -- everything from "Brain Cloudy Blues" to various Crudup lines, to older pop, to mountain music, and Sam was a happy man.

Bear with me on this one, okay? You know, a tornado really isn't visible; people just THINK they see it. It's only just wind. Very, very powerful wind, in a vortex of whirling power, grabbing everything in its path. And that is what you see, not the tornado itself: you see what's IN the tornado. And you see the aftermath, of course. What I mean by this is that Elvis was like the wind-force of a tornado, invisible as the wind, but able to tear up the countryside by gathering everything in his path and slamming it down in an entirely new arrangement. And that is what Sam loved about him, recognized in him, and turned loose on the world.

But Elvis' thing was that he was a fan. Not all recording artists are fans in that way: they see other artists work as just raw material for themselves, and then want to leave it behind. Elvis did see some things that way, of course, but if he heard something he liked as it was, he liked it as it was. But if Elvis liked something, he really, really liked it, and wanted to do it. And he wanted to do it as he liked it. Phillips was a good producer for him in this respect, because he understood him, and knew how to open up his creativity in the way that everyone remembers.

rjm
Last edited by rjm on Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:35 pm

At times he even balances on both toes with his knees forward, hips wiggling and chest thrown out. The position appears physically impossible to hold; but Elvis manages to stay that way for 15 or 20 seconds.


I would pay anything to see this! It's obvious that he was and is the best ever performer but there's so little footage or even photos to back this up!

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:51 am

I wonder if the Toronto Star review is the only one that was written. Another review, written by a second journalist from another paper that mentions Butterfly, would add weight to the argument.

Does anybody know how many papers Toronto had in 1957? If more that one, then a major event such as a Presley concert in 1957 would surely have been covered.