Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sat May 28, 2011 5:57 am

Deke Rivers II wrote:My wish too Doc.......it would be great for those that have to share with us that have not......;-)......the very fact that Elvis performed "Butterfly" was something totally new to me until you started this thread many moons ago and I have been hoping every since that these tapes would surface!

Well, I ignored the idea for the longest time as a dumb rumour or journalism mistake.

It's amazing what a little research can do.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sat May 28, 2011 6:30 am

To show I am balanced, good topic and good research.
Hope it proves to be true and one day we hear a new song.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:29 am

Under "Song Facts" website this was written about the songwriters for "Butterfly"

"The song was written by Anthony September, which is a pseudonym for Bernie Lowe and Lal Mann, who also wrote "Teddy Bear" for Elvis Presley. The duo hid their real names as they disliked the deal they had with Presley's organization and they didn't want them to know of their next song, "Butterfly.""
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=19353

So Elvis may not of heard of this song till after it's release to the charts.
Then by finding these actual facts out later that it was purposely kept from him , then so out of spite sang it live maby in such a parody being upset over this, that it was remembered by the press as him doing the number in the first place.
Image
EIN Interview

EIN: In 1957 Elvis performed a number of songs in concert which it appears were not recorded either live or in the studio. What can you tell us about these?

AH: During my research I came across three such songs. A woman who attended Elvis’s concert in Spokane claims that he sang “Searchin’,” a Coasters hit in 1957. I didn’t report this in my book because I couldn’t confirm it, and I didn’t feel the fifty-year memory of one person was enough to say it really happened. I’m also leery of a newspaper reporter’s claim that Elvis sang Charlie Gracie’s “Butterfly” in Toronto on April 2.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:24 pm

"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:48 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!

What do you think of the quote from song facts doc?

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:54 am

promiseland wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!

What do you think of the quote from song facts doc?

I think Alan needs to read this topic! Then he will no longer be leery.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:01 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
promiseland wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:"AH" must be Elvis author Alan Hanson, yes? He needs to read this topic!

What do you think of the quote from song facts doc?

I think Alan needs to read this topic! Then he will no longer be leery.

But Alan is not the person who left the comment on the "SongFacts" page it was Alan on EIN Interview only.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:27 am

This is the quote in your post:

AH: During my research I came across three such songs. A woman who attended Elvis’s concert in Spokane claims that he sang “Searchin’,” a Coasters hit in 1957. I didn’t report this in my book because I couldn’t confirm it, and I didn’t feel the fifty-year memory of one person was enough to say it really happened. I’m also leery of a newspaper reporter’s claim that Elvis sang Charlie Gracie’s “Butterfly” in Toronto on April 2.


If that's not author Alan Hanson, who is it?

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:31 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:This is the quote in your post:

AH: During my research I came across three such songs. A woman who attended Elvis’s concert in Spokane claims that he sang “Searchin’,” a Coasters hit in 1957. I didn’t report this in my book because I couldn’t confirm it, and I didn’t feel the fifty-year memory of one person was enough to say it really happened. I’m also leery of a newspaper reporter’s claim that Elvis sang Charlie Gracie’s “Butterfly” in Toronto on April 2.


If that's not author Alan Hanson, who is it?

Yes thats him from EIN


But I'm talking about this statement that I posted here a few posts up
from another source-link below :

The song was written by Anthony September, which is a pseudonym for Bernie Lowe and Lal Mann, who also wrote "Teddy Bear" for Elvis Presley. The duo hid their real names as they disliked the deal they had with Presley's organization and they didn't want them to know of their next song, "Butterfly."
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=19353
Last edited by promiseland on Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:33 am

That is already discussed on previous pages of this topic.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:35 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:That is already discussed on previous pages of this topic.

ok gotcha I missed that doc!

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:40 pm

"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.


The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:03 pm

poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.


The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.



That is very unfair.

The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:36 pm

KiwiAlan wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.


The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.



That is very unfair.

The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.


A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?

The doc wrote:

"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."

He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.

While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:56 am

poormadpeter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.


The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.



That is very unfair.

The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.


A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?

The doc wrote:

"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."

He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.

While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.


It suggests that all these "mystery" topics that doctor has been coming up with, have only been a mystery to him
until recently.

As far as "Are you lonesome tonight" mystery, I have yet to hear any of the cover versions
that Elvis could have heard before cutting his classic version, so I can't speak of that topic.

Elvis often would hear multiple versions and come up with his own version, by borrowing a phrase here and there
to create something new. Back then it was so common for everyone to find a great a song and record it.

That is why there are so many cover songs back then.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:08 am

ekenee wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.


The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.



That is very unfair.

The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.


A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?

The doc wrote:

"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."

He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.

While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.


It suggests that all these "mystery" topics that doctor has been coming up with, have only been a mystery to him
until recently.

As far as "Are you lonesome tonight" mystery, I have yet to hear any of the cover versions
that Elvis could have heard before cutting his classic version, so I can't speak of that topic.

Elvis often would hear multiple versions and come up with his own version, by borrowing a phrase here and there
to create something new. Back then it was so common for everyone to find a great a song and record it.

That is why there are so many cover songs back then.


Well, I do agree with the doc as to which version Elvis was influenced by in the case of are you lonesome tonight - but it was never a mystery to begin with.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:24 am

poormadpeter wrote:
ekenee wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:"Butterfly was written by Bernie Lowe and Kal Mann...Both Charlie Gracie and Andy Williams had million-sellers with the song in 1957...Elvis sang "Butterfly" in a performance at the Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto."
Worth & Tamerius: Elvis. His Life From A to Z, 1992 edition, p 363.


The above quote, from hardly the best researched of Elvis books, shows that everything in the initial post was well-known long before the Doc created the topic.



That is very unfair.

The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.


A worthwhile thread, yes. But in the initial post, the Doc quite clearly suggests that his research was something we did not already know - not least by the suggestion that the song was thought to be All Shook Up. This was never the case - how could you mistake All Shook Up (repeated numberous times throughout the song) for Buttercup/fly? It's not like referring to American Trilogy as Glory Glory Hallelujah, is it?

The doc wrote:

"For many years spring 1957 news reports of Elvis singing "Butterfly" in his live show were written off as a mistake. Surely, Elvis wasn't throwing an obscure single by rockabilly Charlie Gracie into his performance? Surely, the media misheard Elvis, who was really singing his new single, "All Shook Up," which ends a key line with the noun "buttercup"?
Well, maybe they didn't. But ... could Elvis have really decided to sing this hit tune? At Presley's Toronto shows four days earlier, he threw in a performance of the recorded-but-not-issued "One Night." RCA would release the classic rocker 18 months later. So, Elvis was obviously in a somewhat loose frame of mind regarding the live show.
And the song itself is a easy, breezy rocker that could be picked up by the band in a heartbeat. Perhaps the clincher to this saga was discovering today that "Butterfly" was firmly in the Hill and Range publishers stable."

He is suggesting that the song was one big mystery until now - which is clearly not the case - and in the same way that the Are You Lonesome Tonight suggests that the Blue Barron influence was new information, despite the fact it can be found in print from nearly a decade ago.

While highlighting such issues and adding info is always welcome - as are the youtube links - I do have problems with the suggestion that some great mystery has been solved (in both the case of this song and AYLT), for that simply is not the situation here.


It suggests that all these "mystery" topics that doctor has been coming up with, have only been a mystery to him
until recently.

As far as "Are you lonesome tonight" mystery, I have yet to hear any of the cover versions
that Elvis could have heard before cutting his classic version, so I can't speak of that topic.

Elvis often would hear multiple versions and come up with his own version, by borrowing a phrase here and there
to create something new. Back then it was so common for everyone to find a great a song and record it.

That is why there are so many cover songs back then.


Well, I do agree with the doc as to which version Elvis was influenced by in the case of are you lonesome tonight - but it was never a mystery to begin with.


Really? You knew it was the Barron song before this thread started. Remarkable.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:31 am

As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.

And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!

The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)

No mystery.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:26 am

KiwiAlan wrote:The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.

Thanks very much. Anyone who has invested even five minutes reviewing the A-Z reference book published by Fred L. Worth and Steve D. Tamerius knows that it is littered with factual errors, and should never be regarded as a credible resource.

This topic, like many, many others I have offered up here through the years, took many hours to research and compile. My facts always aim to be accurate and detailed. The images and article scans strive to be special, and fun. I do it for the people who take them for what they are, fresh insight into the greatest singer of the 20th century.

Sadly, there are always some who would rather take such work and piss on it. Such is the internet.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:26 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:The Doc raised a very interesting subject this time and obviously put a lot of time into it, we all have learned something.

While Butterfly was known to many of us...never before has this been covered in such depth.

A very wothwhile thread.

Thanks very much. Anyone who has invested even five minutes reviewing the A-Z reference book published by Fred L. Worth and Steve D. Tamerius knows that it is littered with factual errors, and should never be regarded as a credible resource.

This topic, like many, many others I have offered up here through the years, took many hours to research and compile. My facts always aim to be accurate and detailed. The images and article scans strive to be special, and fun. I do it for the people who take them for what they are, fresh insight into the greatest singer of the 20th century.

Sadly, there are always some who would rather take such work and piss on it. Such is the internet.


Indeed it is. And, as you have said yourself in the past, the majority of correct facts in the book are simply borrowed from elsewhere - suggesting that the information on Butterfly was in the public domain long before it reached that book. Even disregarding A Life from A to Z, that gives no excuse for the suggestion that a mystery has been solved in the AYLT thread - as suggested by the many sources for the information in that thread which I have detailed above through 5 minutes of research.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:32 pm

poormadpeter wrote:As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.

And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!

The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)

No mystery.

There is a lot more Mystery involved than just the song being sung live Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them.
So poopandpeter before you go bashing on a hard worked informative thread just to look for reasons to degrade docs essential work here.
How about just once try to contribute to the topics .
Just take a little practice and I'm sure someday you'll fit in just fine :smt006

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:08 pm

promiseland wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.

And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!

The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)

No mystery.

There is a lot more Mystery involved than just the song being sung live Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them.
So poopandpeter before you go bashing on a hard worked informative thread just to look for reasons to degrade docs essential work here.
How about just once try to contribute to the topics .
Just take a little practice and I'm sure someday you'll fit in just fine :smt006


If you read the post which you have quoted, you would know that I was talking about AYLT in that post. So try reading. Just take a little practice etc.

And your wit is truly stunning.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:50 pm

promiseland wrote:Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them.
So poopandpeter before you go bashing on a hard worked informative thread just to look for reasons to degrade docs essential work here.

Thank you for the kind words.

Sadly, that person is only interested in pissing on my parade and putting down anyone who gets in his way. That it ruins the fun for everyone else here is unimportant.

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:05 pm

promiseland wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:As already stated, it is in at least two books, including the one by Paul Simpson which I have and have read. That's generally what i do with books. That way you learn such things.

And that was a rather odd question coming from you, Kiwi, considering it was you suggested that the AYLT Blue Barron influence was only a mystery to the uninformed!

The mention of Are You Lonesome Tonight and Blue Barron is also in:
Elvis: A Life from A to Z by Worth and tamerius.
Untold Gold by Ace Collins.
TheHandbook of Psychobiography by William Schultz
Even wikipedia states that Elvis's version was based on Blue Barrons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Are_You_Lonesome_Tonight%3F_(song)

No mystery.

There is a lot more Mystery involved than just the song being sung live Sometimes we may want to find out why these things were done and the reasoning behind them[/b].


So, after reading Doc's post, why did Elvis sing it live? Because he liked the song when he heard it. Great. Another "mystery solved"

Re: "Butterfly" --> 1957 Live Mystery Song ... Solved ?

Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:49 am

poormadpeter wrote:So, after reading Doc's post, why did Elvis sing it live? Because he liked the song when he heard it. Great. Another "mystery solved"

You're getting close ! Don't give up practice makes perfect!
I'm not willing to bet on it , but sooner or later I think you might make some form of contribution to FECC .
Practice in "chat-talk" and pop in here periodically and let us all see your progress!
:smt006