Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sun May 22, 2011 4:01 pm

Strange thing is that the Dallas concert sounds so much better on ELVIS DALLAS SEVENTYFIVE - (Lone Star A 456) (Released 2001)

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sun May 22, 2011 4:14 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Thanks for the kind words. Elvis Aron Presley was a pretty big deal in 1980. Some comments:


George Smith wrote:Interesting read, thank you for posting.

Nice to see the nod given to the obvious highlights (Hawaii '61, the Monolog, Burbank '68, the piano songs, "Little Sister"), but I find such anger in Marcus' words.

Anger at RCA? The Colonel? At Elvis?

Maybe all three? Sometimes it seems like his review was a delayed reaction to Elvis' tragic, early death. Marcus was well aware of the incredible underground releases issued between 1977 and 1980, and he may have been peeved opportunities to collect these stellar moments were ignored by Deary.


kevinstevenage wrote:what does the Doc think to this release?

It was exciting to own at the time, although it didn't feel like RCA had matched the work of underground labels like Golden Archives or Audifon, in terms of rare recordings or art direction. And the RCA LPs issued after the box set were a huge letdown, aimless collections that satisfied no one.


Juan Luis wrote:Thank you Doc! The edited 1975 Dallas,Texas show was the first ever (concert) soundboard release. The "escapes" came much later.

Well, don't forget the 1977 and 1978 B-side releases of "America" and "Softly As I Leave You," culled from a SB of the December 13, 1975 MS in Las Vegas

Yes! You are good. Thank you.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Mon May 23, 2011 1:16 am

The Wizard Of Oz wrote:I saw this brilliant idea on another Elvis site and thought I would kindly share it here !


Welcome Back John, :mrgreen:

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Mon May 23, 2011 2:02 am

Mike Eder wrote:Interesting but there is a lot to enjoy over those eight albums.

I would agree!


Juan Luis wrote:
Juan Luis wrote:Thank you Doc! The edited 1975 Dallas,Texas show was the first ever (concert) soundboard release. The "escapes" came much later.

drjohncarpenter wrote:Well, don't forget the 1977 and 1978 B-side releases of "America" and "Softly As I Leave You," culled from a SB of the December 13, 1975 MS in Las Vegas

Yes! You are good. Thank you.

Thank you muchly!!

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Mon May 23, 2011 3:07 pm

Lennart wrote:
dreambear wrote:Thanks for posting! As a ten year old child, I was knocked down by this set. Oh Lord, it was a true sensation for me.

//Björn


As a 15 year old I had the same sensational experience.

Lennart


I also rememeber that I was a bit disappointed with "A golden celebration" in 1984. I thought the silver box was much more exciting.

//björn

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Mon May 23, 2011 4:00 pm

dreambear wrote:
Lennart wrote:
dreambear wrote:Thanks for posting! As a ten year old child, I was knocked down by this set. Oh Lord, it was a true sensation for me.

//Björn


As a 15 year old I had the same sensational experience.

Lennart


I also rememeber that I was a bit disappointed with "A golden celebration" in 1984. I thought the silver box was much more exciting.

//björn


My thoughts exactly!
I have grown to appreciate the 50`s live material more since then but I think that the sound quality was
one of the things that made me a little disappointed.

Lennart

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Mon May 23, 2011 5:45 pm

Marcus' condescending attitude toward the 1956 Vegas show speaks volumes about his limitations as a critic. Comparing the banter in this show with that in his late 70's live material is just absurd. In shows such as the Dallas 75 performance, Elvis's banter is playful and harmless, but there are moments in the 56 performance that reveal a thinly veiled disdain for the middle aged audience in attendance. When Elvis refers to the audience as "music lovers" after a tepid round of applause, his words drip with a pointed irony. This show is one of the best glimpses of the "front lines" of the cultural battle over rock n' roll, and our esteemed critic misses it entirely. That's to say nothing of the historical import of this show being released, IIRC, the May 56 Vegas show was the first recording of a live Presley concert from his breakout year to be made available for public. There is much of an enlightening nature that could be written about it by great music critic, but Marcus declines the opportunity and resorts to his shopworn box of rolled eyes and smug self-righteousness instead.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Tue May 24, 2011 2:44 am

Good point. They are the best sounding live recordings before 1968 and I treasure them for that. It is very revealing how Elvis and the audience interact.. Needless to say Elvis and his band were excellent.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Tue May 24, 2011 3:52 am

KingOfTheJungle wrote:Marcus' condescending attitude toward the 1956 Vegas show speaks volumes about his limitations as a critic.

Volumes? No, it doesn't.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Tue May 24, 2011 8:21 am

rickeap wrote:Interesting review, thanks for posting it Doc.
Marcus seems to be seeking something more in depth than what was delivered in the set.
I liked it at the time as something `new' from Elvis, although there seemed to be a need for just a little bit more. Some of the sides seemed very short too.
It has been a long time since I've played this set, might go and give it a listen.



I was very excited by this release and yet young enough to let what I took at the time as a sour ROLLING STONE review make me feel like it was a disappointment. (I've since been forced to recall that reviews, however informed, are after all just one person's opinion.) I probably saw that "zero star" review by Dave Marsh (another sometimes way too angry fellow) some time later, as well.

I was confused as I didn't see what was so bad about it, especially as I had been burned by titles like "Pure Gold" (even though I liked it) and a few of the lousier Camden / Pickwick repackagings so this was a feast by comparison.

It wasn't what it could have been but over the years you all here have helped me realize it was the special title I heard it to be upon my first listen.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:49 pm

Mr. Marcus must have been on depressants when he wrote this review.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:07 pm

I was 18 when this came out and bought it new. Now, I find I have two copies somehow??????

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:55 pm

Has it ever been written who actually recorded the May '56 Vegas gig that first appeared on EAP?
The sonics imply it was at the very least a semi-pro recording.
Perhaps the brief footage that exists from this engagement is related to the audio.

Does anyone have any further info on this marvellous if overused recording?

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:03 pm

elvisalisellers wrote:Has it ever been written who actually recorded the May '56 Vegas gig that first appeared on EAP?
The sonics imply it was at the very least a semi-pro recording.
Perhaps the brief footage that exists from this engagement is related to the audio.

Does anyone have any further info on this marvellous if overused recording?

It was apparently recorded by someone associated with the Freddy Martin Orchestra.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:52 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:Has it ever been written who actually recorded the May '56 Vegas gig that first appeared on EAP?
The sonics imply it was at the very least a semi-pro recording.
Perhaps the brief footage that exists from this engagement is related to the audio.

Does anyone have any further info on this marvellous if overused recording?

It was apparently recorded by someone associated with the Freddy Martin Orchestra.

Yes Doc. IIRC the recordings were pro (for the time) for a Freddy Martin live album, and I can only speculate Elvis' show was recorded for a soundcheck. My take...

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:06 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:Has it ever been written who actually recorded the May '56 Vegas gig that first appeared on EAP?
The sonics imply it was at the very least a semi-pro recording.
Perhaps the brief footage that exists from this engagement is related to the audio.

Does anyone have any further info on this marvellous if overused recording?

It was apparently recorded by someone associated with the Freddy Martin Orchestra.

Cool.... That sounds plausible as the 1980 tape legend is noted as being a "PURCHASED MASTER".
Whoever carried it out certainly knew what they were doing as the mix is extremely well balanced [even the audience are miked] and punchy, especially considering it's age and source. I also wonder if the original tape still exists with Sony, as all the reissues since, appear to have used the Dick Bogert mix [which possibly added reverb to the original source tape].

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:13 pm

Mike- I think back in the early 1980s there was kind of a different attitude in the culture about outtakes although as pointed out here bootlegs had used them extensively. The idea being that outtakes were meant to be left on the floor. I think a Dave Marsh at that time was looking for some sort of definitive Elvis collection and when he got a collection of outtakes, he thought RCA fell short of the job. And in Marsh's defense it took a hell of a long time for RCA to release a box like that.

King that's a great insight about the "music lovers" line. I've always found that a very telling ad lib by Elvis.

I do think though that although there is a tension here that is not present in the 1970s, there is a link between Elvis' 1950s banter and his 1970s comments. You can see it on the Sullivan shows as well. Elvis liked to send things up. He sensed a lot of the absurdity in the reactions to him even as he relished it.

Thanks for posting this review for discussion Dr. Carpenter. I've read it before but it's interesting to chat about.

I do agree though with King on some of the limitations of Marcus. One is his uncomfortable distance from traditional pop which you can see in a lot of the performances in the set. On the other hand, though, the piece does display his gifts as a writer. I remember reading it the first time and not seeing the byline but knowing immediately who wrote it.

I do think the incoherence of the set is a legitimate criticism. I also think in retrospect so is the mix of rarities and relatively common coin material like the Aloha and EIC cuts. More important as many fans pointed out in other contemporaneous reviews, the length of the discs themselves was often a huge issue.

A lot of this was because I think while Joan Deary seemed to respect Elvis, she didn't quite seem to get what he was all about. A set that told a lot about who Elvis was and most importantly provide an insight into his creative process was simply beyond her. She probably didn't have a clue about those things.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:38 pm

likethebike wrote:A lot of this was because I think while Joan Deary seemed to respect Elvis, she didn't quite seem to get what he was all about. A set that told a lot about who Elvis was and most importantly provide an insight into his creative process was simply beyond her. She probably didn't have a clue about those things.

Which isn't surprising considering she came from the old guard at RCA. She was significantly involved with Elvis' 70's output which is very telling. That said, while the EAP and Golden Celebration box sets were flawed, she deserves some credit for overseeing the release of deep archival sets.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:50 pm

Was Marcus unaware of the Camden albums? "King of the Whole Wide World" was not on the 'lost singles' because it was already on the Camden album "C'mon Everybody".

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:32 am

I remember how much, as a 15 year old, I "visited" the box set at the record store. It simply wasn't in the budget at the time, and I coveted it.

One day, a heavy package arrived in the mail. My best friend's uncle, a longtime Elvis collector, surprised me and gave me the set. He sent a note, joking that Lisa Marie asked him to give it to me, but he then got serious and wrote that this box, and the music and memories within, were what really mattered - not Goldman's book.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:35 am

elvisjock wrote:I remember how much, as a 15 year old, I "visited" the box set at the record store. It simply wasn't in the budget at the time, and I coveted it.

One day, a heavy package arrived in the mail. My best friend's uncle, a longtime Elvis collector, surprised me and gave me the set. He sent a note, joking that Lisa Marie asked him to give it to me, but he then got serious and wrote that this box, and the music and memories within, were what really mattered - not Goldman's book.

Nice story. That was a very generous, thoughtful gesture on the part of your friend's uncle.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:46 am

Lonely Summer wrote:Was Marcus unaware of the Camden albums? "King of the Whole Wide World" was not on the 'lost singles' because it was already on the Camden album "C'mon Everybody".

In 1980, the only people who had that Camden album were hardcore fans.

In the real world, slotting a great song on a 1971 budget LP is akin to not releasing it at all.

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:24 am

midnightx wrote:
likethebike wrote:A lot of this was because I think while Joan Deary seemed to respect Elvis, she didn't quite seem to get what he was all about. A set that told a lot about who Elvis was and most importantly provide an insight into his creative process was simply beyond her. She probably didn't have a clue about those things.

Which isn't surprising considering she came from the old guard at RCA. She was significantly involved with Elvis' 70's output which is very telling. That said, while the EAP and Golden Celebration box sets were flawed, she deserves some credit for overseeing the release of deep archival sets.

Yes. Joan Deary was responsible for the first series of Elvis outtakes, unreleased recordings etc. It even started during Elvis' lifetime with the "Legendary Performer" series ...it did not amuse Elvis &Co. because he had already sold the rights of his pre 1973 recordings. And to make matters more interesting. Those rare,unreleased recordings sold more than Elvis' recently recorded output. I have heard and read she was bitter at RCA cause they did not believe (and not let her release) previously unkown recordings from Elvis cause it was not was not $$$ viable. They were of course wrong. RCA woke up finally during the 80's when the bootlegs started coming out. My friend PD helped with that by giving Ernst J. tapes that began the "Essential Elvis" series! And that was the start of the great Ernst J/Elvis."revolution"! ::rocks

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:03 am

Bought this one when i was 11 ys old. Skipped school, one hour bus drive to Antwerp on a rainy Friday night. Enjoyed the records for years .... until i had to sell to discs a few years later so i could buy a black ibanez from a lesbian wearing leather pants and start to practice scotty's runs (gibson & gretch were at the time way too expensive for a 14 yr old boy) ... still: the box looks ever since so empty without the 60-movies and Dallas concert ...

Re: "He May Be Dead ..." - Rolling Stone on 'Elvis Aron Pres

Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:44 am

There is a sense of anger in Marcus more than disappointment. I get it, particularly due to the set being totally disjointed. It's a bizarre collection, almost an extension of the "A Legendary Performer" series which would do nothing to convince a 'non-believer' that Elvis was worthy of the title as 'King'.

Released in a limited amount with Elvis' loyal fan-base being the target at a time there was a lot of activity in the Elvis world, it's a typical RCA hatchet job on Elvis Presley's work. Looking at this almost 22 years later it's easy to find fault but it was really exciting stuff at the time. In the UK we got "It's Only Love" as a number 3 single during the summer. That was in the days when you had to sell a lot of records to gain such a chart position, you heard the song everywhere you went!

As mentioned by someone else, I also preferred it to the later "Golden Celebration" which was a bit like "Last Train To Memphis" & the follow-up "Careless Love" scenario.