Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:28 am

Kingcandids wrote:I can't get to my photos right now, I moved them to a safe place when we went through the storm here in Long Island, But I do remember a photo of Elvis with Larry Gatlin and he is standing in front of a dressing room door that reads Sinatra?


That would be great if you could locate that photo. It sure would be definitive.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:51 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Justin wrote:Some impressive research here...nice work Doc.

Thank you. And thanks again to jonburrows, who deciphered "Nero's Nook" in the black and white photo, which compelled me to dig deeper, reassess, and find out exactly when these photos were taken.

IIRC, member TCB TED is also a member of The Sinatra Family Forum, moderated by ... Nancy Sinatra. If he could ask her if she remembers Elvis at her Caesar's Palace debut in 1970, that would be the icing on the cake!



Thanks for the reminder.
I've spoken with Nancy, and she doesn't remember being at Caesar's in Aug. of 1970. As she stated, if Elvis came to her show without stopping by, she would've "smack'd him"!

I sent Nancy the Billboard article Doc supplied mentioning the Aug.6th engagement, hoping that will spark her memory.

We shall see .... it is pretty cool that we can post this question directly to Nancy .... there aren't too many of the original
players left.

Great topic, Doc.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:58 am

Nancy's memory may be a bit foggy after all these years, but she was definitely at Caesar's in Aug. and Sep. of 1970.

"In August 1970, Nancy made her Caesars Palace debut in its main showroom, as the hotel celebrated its fourth anniversary. The August 22, 1970 issue of Billboard described the “fully developed variety show” as follows:

“Very reminiscent of a vaudeville bill, the show featured Miss Sinatra performing segments with slots allotted to her associates, the Blossoms and Osmond Brothers. The 10 Hugh Lambert Dancers were an added ingredient as were light drops which filled the stage and flower decorated swings for the girls to sit on, but not swing with.”

Nancy is pictured with Donny Osmond."

Image

"The September 12, 1970 Billboard reported on the show’s great success:

“The Nancy Sinatra Show at Caesars Palace broke all existing records for business done for one week of 14 performances in Caesars Palace’s Circus Maximus.”

The program for the show (pictured below) indicated plans for the TV production which ultimately became known as Movin’ With Nancy, On Stage:

“For her premiere engagement at Caesars Palace, Miss Sinatra has mounted a spectacular, brilliantly paced show which may shortly be translated into a television production.”

Here is a great article describing Nancy's history in Vegas.

http://nancysinatra.com/blog/2011/05/re ... more-30368

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:03 am

TCB TED wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Justin wrote:Some impressive research here...nice work Doc.

Thank you. And thanks again to jonburrows, who deciphered "Nero's Nook" in the black and white photo, which compelled me to dig deeper, reassess, and find out exactly when these photos were taken.

IIRC, member TCB TED is also a member of The Sinatra Family Forum, moderated by ... Nancy Sinatra. If he could ask her if she remembers Elvis at her Caesar's Palace debut in 1970, that would be the icing on the cake!



Thanks for the reminder.
I've spoken with Nancy, and she doesn't remember being at Caesar's in Aug. of 1970. As she stated, if Elvis came to her show without stopping by, she would've "smack'd him"!

I sent Nancy the Billboard article Doc supplied mentioning the Aug.6th engagement, hoping that will spark her memory.

We shall see .... it is pretty cool that we can post this question directly to Nancy .... there aren't too many of the original
players left.

Great topic, Doc.

Send her everything I posted -- the Jilly Rizzo invite, the program, all of the Billboard scans that pertain to her debut on August 6, 1970. Although if she cannot even recall playing there then, she may not have much to add about the photos. :-(

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:01 pm

Turns out Nancy has zero memories of even playing Caesar's Palace (!), so that was a miss. Some feel she may be purposefully not saying anything in public about Elvis and her in 1970, but who knows? Thanks for trying, TCB TED.

However, on another topic today Aloha Eagle posted an unseen shot from this event, and it is intriguing:


700806_w Richard Davis at Caesar's Palace.JPG
with Richard Davis

We see Elvis holding something in his right hand that looks like tickets. Could they say "NANCY" on them? Also, we clearly see the rings on his left hand, which are exactly the ones he wore at his opening night show on Monday, August 10, 1970.

Thus we have more evidence these candids are all from Nancy Sinatra's big-time opening at Caesar's Palace, on Thursday, August 6, 1970.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:05 pm

good going Doc

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:34 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Also, we clearly see the rings on his left hand, which are exactly the ones he wore at his opening night show on Monday, August 10, 1970.
Thus we have more evidence these candids are all from Nancy Sinatra's big-time opening at Caesar's Palace, on Thursday, August 6, 1970.


Doc, those two rings doesn´t provide much evidence in supporting an August date as he wore them from as early as February to as late as December 1970.
His other hand however provide more evidence (see the 2nd photo in the first post of this topic). Here we see Elvis wearing the ring that he wore for the opening show on August 10, 1970 and I haven´t been able to spot the ring in later photos. He used it as early as in Houston on February 28. So this could be an indication that the photo was no later than August 9, 1970.

We actually had some information in this thread from back in May 2007.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33875&hilit=Norm+Crosby
Russ provided us with info back then that the photo was from Caesar´s Palace and that Elvis was going to watch a Norm Crosby show. So much of the evidence was right there before our eyes.

I´m not so good at comparing his sideburns and hair so anybody wanna take a shot at comparing the photos with those we have from rehearsals on August 4 and 7, 1970?

Sincerely
Brian
www.brian56.dk

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:49 am

bripet56 wrote:We actually had some information in this thread from back in May 2007.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33875&hilit=Norm+Crosby
Russ provided us with info back then that the photo was from Caesar´s Palace and that Elvis was going to watch a Norm Crosby show. So much of the evidence was right there before our eyes.


Not really.

I am familiar with the post, and his information is shown to be dubious at best.

Much of the data we see here is from a lot of information dug out this year that may not have been on line in 2007.

See -->
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73357&p=1100506#p1100506

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:22 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
bripet56 wrote:We actually had some information in this thread from back in May 2007.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=33875&hilit=Norm+Crosby
Russ provided us with info back then that the photo was from Caesar´s Palace and that Elvis was going to watch a Norm Crosby show. So much of the evidence was right there before our eyes.


Not really.

I am familiar with the post, and his information is shown to be dubious at best.

Much of the data we see here is from a lot of information dug out this year that may not have been on line in 2007.

See -->
http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73357&p=1100506#p1100506


Yes Doc, I did read the entire thread from page 1-4 before posting my answer so I am familiar with all the hard working research you did. I know it´s what you like to do and I know you´re good at it.

I can´t see why Russ´ information about the photos being from Caesar´s Palace is dubuios (since they ARE from Caesar´s palace) and the Norm Crosby sign would have had most of us believe that Elvis was going to attend his show.

Should we consider all your research as dubious as well just because you almost had everyone believe that the photos were from a Tom Jones show in L.A. at first?

We don´t know for sure but the fact that Nancy opened on August 6, 1970 could very well be the reason why Elvis and his guess were "dressed up."

Sincerely
Brian
www.brian56.dk

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:05 am

bripet56 wrote:Yes Doc, I did read the entire thread from page 1-4 before posting my answer so I am familiar with all the hard working research you did. I know it´s what you like to do and I know you´re good at it.

I can´t see why Russ´ information about the photos being from Caesar´s Palace is dubuios (since they ARE from Caesar´s palace) and the Norm Crosby sign would have had most of us believe that Elvis was going to attend his show.

Should we consider all your research as dubious as well just because you almost had everyone believe that the photos were from a Tom Jones show in L.A. at first?

We don´t know for sure but the fact that Nancy opened on August 6, 1970 could very well be the reason why Elvis and his guess were "dressed up."



Given that you are someone who, more than once, has lamented decorum on this forum, the mocking tone of your reply is especially surprising. Hypocrisy does not suit you, bripet56. Despite your condescending tone, here are the answers you seek:

Common sense tells us that Russ' information is dubious because the idea that Elvis would be attending a Norm Crosby show -- a B-grade comedian -- at a Caesar's Palace secondary club is absurd. That Woody Herman was the musical act -- a big band leader with young crew -- makes it even less likely Presley would be attending. And that multiple photographers would just happen to be outside a side venue, at a Norm Crosby/Woody Herman gig, to capture Elvis Presley walking in and walking out, stretches the realm of credibility entirely.

It should be further noted that, until a "Nero's Nook" sign was spotted, partially obscured, in a single image, there was nothing concrete tying these photos to Caesar's Palace. Just because someone "said" it was a Norm Crosby show at Caesar's Palace does not mean we have "evidence." What we have is hearsay.

This topic clearly began with a caveat that said the investigation was based on the assumption the photos were of Elvis attending a Tom Jones show. In fact, it is stated twice in my first post. When more information came to light making this assumption untenable, I started again and came up with a second, very credible hypothesis. So to suggest all my initial work be considered dubious as well means you actually failed to read my topic with care before posting.

If one cannot follow the plain English in my opening post, what one ends up misunderstanding is their problem, not mine.

Thank you.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:09 am

I´m sorry you find my post mocking Doc because that was NOT intended.
When I wrote that I know you like to do research and that you´re good at it I actually meant it.
And my question about whether we should consider your research (about Tom Jones) as dubious was neither meant to be mocking.

I´m out of here.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:57 am

bripet56 wrote:I´m sorry you find my post mocking Doc because that was NOT intended.
When I wrote that I know you like to do research and that you´re good at it I actually meant it.
And my question about whether we should consider your research (about Tom Jones) as dubious was neither meant to be mocking.

I´m out of here.


It obviously comes off differently to us in print. At the very least, can you honestly look at your reply and say it was warm and friendly? I think not.

In any event, I am disappointed you take not a moment to address my replies to your stern questions.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:36 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
karlos wrote:fantastic research work Doctor John Carpenter - I/ we all thank you for sharing this with us all -

Thanks for the kind words.

I post because of the many people here on FECC like you, not the tiny-minded, jealous minority.



Yvw Dr.John Carpenter - Keep up the great work -
Love ya posts - Enjoy ya week buddy ::rocks -
Ty too for crediting me -
Im like you - really love Elvis and the Truth about him and his work , career etc -

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:13 am

karlos wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
karlos wrote:fantastic research work Doctor John Carpenter - I/ we all thank you for sharing this with us all -

Thanks for the kind words.

I post because of the many people here on FECC like you, not the tiny-minded, jealous minority.


Yvw Dr.John Carpenter - Keep up the great work -
Love ya posts - Enjoy ya week buddy ::rocks -
Ty too for crediting me -
Im like you - really love Elvis and the Truth about him and his work , career etc -


Thank you.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:46 pm

great thread doc, here another picture of elvis on this occation
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:08 pm

Johnny2523 wrote:great thread doc, here another picture of elvis on this occation


No, that photo is from a post-show party for Nancy Sinatra, after her 8-29-1969 debut at the International Hotel.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:27 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Johnny2523 wrote:great thread doc, here another picture of elvis on this occation


No, that photo is from a post-show party for Nancy Sinatra, after her 8-29-1969 debut at the International Hotel.


okay doc, my bad

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:13 am

elvisalisellers wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people.

On the contrary.

I would suggest it's you who should practice being more diligent before posting any more of your "Mystery Solved!" topics.

That way, you are less likely to cause embarrassment to others in future.

What's your problem, elvisalisellers? Good work, Doc. I've really enjoyed it...... ::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:17 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
karlos wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
karlos wrote:fantastic research work Doctor John Carpenter - I/ we all thank you for sharing this with us all -

Thanks for the kind words.

I post because of the many people here on FECC like you, not the tiny-minded, jealous minority.


Yvw Dr.John Carpenter - Keep up the great work -
Love ya posts - Enjoy ya week buddy ::rocks -
Ty too for crediting me -
Im like you - really love Elvis and the Truth about him and his work , career etc -


Thank you.



yvw Doc John Carpenter - Enjoy ya week buddy - God Bless You - ::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:29 am

mysterytrainrideson wrote:What's your problem, elvisalisellers?

No problem; just giving a little back.

Is that alright with you?

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:47 pm

mysterytrainrideson wrote:
elvisalisellers wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Please let us know when you offer such due diligence on an FECC subject, instead choosing to make fun of other people.


On the contrary.

I would suggest it's you who should practice being more diligent before posting any more of your "Mystery Solved!" topics.

That way, you are less likely to cause embarrassment to others in future.


What's your problem, elvisalisellers? Good work, Doc. I've really enjoyed it...... ::rocks


Thank you!

As noted, I twice-over qualified the original scope of my search. When new information arrived, I started from scratch to come up with a second credible explanation. Some people are just jealous, I suppose. ;-)

Re: Elvis Saw Tom at the Forum --> It's No Mystery Now!

Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:20 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Some people are just jealous, I suppose. ;-)

Not me.

I always give credit to people who provide enlightening topics/posts of interest - even to those who may have a thousand different aliases.

::rocks

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:46 pm

Here are two more images from what is likely Elvis at Caesar's Palace on 8-06-1970, hoping to give his dear friend Nancy Sinatra a warm hand on her opening.


700806_at Caesar's Palace_01.JPG



700806_at Caesar's Palace_02.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:55 pm

Why did Elvis go to see all these MOR crooners?...Why didn't he go to see people like, The Who, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin etc...more exciting then going to see Nancy in Vegas. Like them, Elvis was a Rock'n'Roller...it might have reminded him of what it was all about, again.

Re: Elvis Saw Nancy at Caesar's --> It's Really No Mystery N

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:35 pm

mysterytrainrideson wrote:Why did Elvis go to see all these MOR crooners?...Why didn't he go to see people like, The Who, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin etc...more exciting then going to see Nancy in Vegas. Like them, Elvis was a Rock'n'Roller...it might have reminded him of what it was all about, again.


Because he loved this kind of entertainment. The groups you mentioned, (though incredible live acts), didn't appeal to him. He was also older then their fan base.