Off Topic Messages

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:27 am

paulsweeney wrote:
Pete Dube wrote: it won't affect the inner city gun death numbers as the gangs don't get their guns through legitimate means!


30,000 a year in total. So how many are only gang related?



You need to expand the related deaths to guns that are gang related
and to those that have been killed by someone who illegally possesses
a firearm. Adding those two together would account for a more accurate
percentage of the supposed numbers.

And if you did that and then ruled out gun deaths that were accidental,
you might be surprised at the number, or rather the difference between
what's being bantered around here.


As to the number of guns one owns. Jak hit the nail on the head, they
all have different purposes unique to the situation.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:39 am

Whatever the number, the US has a problem and more people die from guns than 99.9% of any other country.

I'm done. Enjoy your guns.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:05 am

jak wrote:I am already to subject to background checks.

Can you break-down for us what backgrounds checks you as a multiple gun owner are currently subject to?

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:01 am

Matthew wrote:I cannot see why any sane American would be opposed to more stringent background checks before one is supplied with a gun.
If you've got nothing to hide, you're gonna get your gun, right?


But that would be an invasion of privacy.

Forbidden in their constitution...

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:27 am

jak wrote:
Matthew wrote:
jak wrote:I am already to subject to background checks.

Can you break-down for us what backgrounds checks you as a multiple gun owner are currently subject to?


When purchasing a firearm you have to fill out a federal form for the weapon along with supplying you're photo identification. Then the gun dealer physically has to call the info in to a federal agent. The agent then runs a background check on you. The answer is either proceed,deny or further review concerning the purchase. I have had the answer be further review a few times. Once this happens another agent verifies you're info and gives the final answer. You're never told why they do a further review.


So there is no check as to whether you are on some kind of mental health register then?

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:55 pm

The US will make the correct decision. The sensible far outwiegh the not so sensible on this issue over the pond.

America WILL move into the 21st century with regards to gun laws.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:17 pm

ColinB wrote:
jak wrote: Colin
You have a Glock 17! My god that's a wonderfull weapon. Im so proud of you :wink:


As you well know, I was simply acting out the scenario as described by jungleroombear...


So, if you had the shot, would you take it? Or would you leave the pistol in the drawer?

What should this woman have done different? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:08 pm

For those interested in the statistics: http://nij.gov/topics/crime/gun-violence/welcome.htm

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:39 pm

jungleroombear wrote:
ColinB wrote:
jak wrote: Colin
You have a Glock 17! My god that's a wonderfull weapon. Im so proud of you :wink:


As you well know, I was simply acting out the scenario as described by jungleroombear...


So, if you had the shot, would you take it? Or would you leave the pistol in the drawer?

What should this woman have done different? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg


Well, I wouldn't have a gun in the first place, and I'm not trained to use one.

The woman could have used other methods to incapacitate her attacker that didn't require her to kill him.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:38 pm

jak wrote: Colin
That woman didn't stand a chance against that guy. He was a career criminal and was coming back for seconds. Guys like him are vicious predators. He got what he deserved. He put himself in that situation.
I live way out in the country with my wife. I leave for work at 3am for my hour long drive to work. I worry about my wife being alone way out here. I take her out behind the house regularly and train her with a Glock 40. I can't imagine her staying out here without that gun. The guy in my avatar is also here to protect her.He will give her time to get prepared. I have told her over and over never be hesitant to use that gun.
If somebody ever tried to get in the house I tell her to keep pulling that trigger until its empty.


You are assuming that anyone breaking in is a rapist or murderer.

They might simply be trying to steal to provide for their family.

You are asking your wife to act as the police, judge, jury & executioner.

That's a heavy burden to put on anybody.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:00 pm

ColinB wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
ColinB wrote:
jak wrote: Colin
You have a Glock 17! My god that's a wonderfull weapon. Im so proud of you :wink:


As you well know, I was simply acting out the scenario as described by jungleroombear...


So, if you had the shot, would you take it? Or would you leave the pistol in the drawer?

What should this woman have done different? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg


Well, I wouldn't have a gun in the first place, and I'm not trained to use one.

The woman could have used other methods to incapacitate her attacker that didn't require her to kill him.


But in the scenario you do have a gun and you are trained to use it. Maybe you are not sure if you would use it?

Most people would not agree with you about what she should do. The chances are that if that woman had used other methods to incapacitate her attacker, she would have been putting her life in great peril and running the risk of probably unimaginable suffering. Not to mention the suffering of her family and friends (again).
In this case if you take away the shotgun, you are depriving her of her right to life itself.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:51 am

jak wrote:
ColinB wrote:
jak wrote: Colin
That woman didn't stand a chance against that guy. He was a career criminal and was coming back for seconds. Guys like him are vicious predators. He got what he deserved. He put himself in that situation.
I live way out in the country with my wife. I leave for work at 3am for my hour long drive to work. I worry about my wife being alone way out here. I take her out behind the house regularly and train her with a Glock 40. I can't imagine her staying out here without that gun. The guy in my avatar is also here to protect her.He will give her time to get prepared. I have told her over and over never be hesitant to use that gun.
If somebody ever tried to get in the house I tell her to keep pulling that trigger until its empty.


You are assuming that anyone breaking in is a rapist or murderer.

They might simply be trying to steal to provide for their family.

You are asking your wife to act as the police, judge, jury & executioner.

That's a heavy burden to put on anybody.


I strongly disagree. If somebody is breaking into my house in the midde of the night they are asking for it. I don't care what the motivation is. It doesn't matter. Im not going to ask them how may I help you as their making their way in. I would shoot any stranger breaking into my house without hesitation.


In the UK, you'd be breaking the law by doing that...

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:55 am

jungleroombear wrote:But in the scenario you do have a gun and you are trained to use it.
Maybe you are not sure if you would use it?

Most people would not agree with you about what she should do. The chances are that if that woman had used other methods to incapacitate her attacker, she would have been putting her life in great peril and running the risk of probably unimaginable suffering. Not to mention the suffering of her family and friends (again).
In this case if you take away the shotgun, you are depriving her of her right to life itself.


If I had the gun & the training, I suppose I'd use it - or what would be the point ?

But it's not a scenario that's ever going to happen.......

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:37 am

jak wrote:Not here in the states. You would probably be hard pressed to find many people who wouldn't have my attitude. Anybody that breaks into you're home while you're inside is particulary dangerous. Somebody like that usually means business. Laws be damned in that situation.


Sure, laws be damned. Why have laws, just give everyone a gun and shoot away. God help us all with attitudes like yours.
Last edited by paulsweeney on Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:04 am

jak wrote:
paulsweeney wrote:
jak wrote:Not here in the states. You would probably be hard pressed to find many people who wouldn't have my attitude. Anybody that breaks into you're home while you're inside is particulary dangerous. Somebody like that usually means business. Laws be damned in that situation.


Sure, laws be damned. Why have laws, just give everyone a gun a shoot away. God help us all with attitudes like yours.


You're living in fantasy land. Anybody breaking into you're house that doesn't care you're in it,is a danger to you or you're family. What would you do? Offer him a cold one and see if he wants to borrow a few bucks?


No, I'm living in Canada. Thankfully.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:49 am

jak wrote: Anybody breaking into you're house that doesn't care you're in it,is a danger to you or you're family. What would you do? Offer him a cold one and see if he wants to borrow a few bucks?



You've got to remember Jak, most of these liberal Democrats (or even worse...Canadians) probably
think giving the criminals our possessions isn't a big deal. Kind of like a special tax, you know a fair share.

One of my best friends husband shot and killed someone trying to break into there home. They kept
banging on the door trying to open it. That person was warned to stop but just kept trying to get in.
The criminal made a choice. He chose wrong.

I'm glad most people where I live have guns in their homes for just that type of situation. By the time
police are able to respond, many times it's too late.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:14 am

iplayastrat wrote:
jak wrote: Anybody breaking into you're house that doesn't care you're in it,is a danger to you or you're family. What would you do? Offer him a cold one and see if he wants to borrow a few bucks?



You've got to remember Jak, most of these liberal Democrats (or even worse...Canadians) probably
think giving the criminals our possessions isn't a big deal. Kind of like a special tax, you know a fair share
.


Sure. Think whatever you want. You crazy Americans / Tea Party / Right wingers keep life entertaining. Just don't shoot anyone selling girl guide cookies.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:16 am

jak wrote:
iplayastrat wrote:
jak wrote: Anybody breaking into you're house that doesn't care you're in it,is a danger to you or you're family. What would you do? Offer him a cold one and see if he wants to borrow a few bucks?

I

You've got to remember Jak, , most of these liberal Democrats (or even worse...Canadians) probably
think giving the criminals our possessions isn't a big deal. Kind of like a special tax, you know a fair share.

One of my best friends husband shot and killed someone trying to break into there home. They kept
banging on the door trying to open it. That person was warned to stop but just kept trying to get in.
The criminal made a choice. He chose wrong.

I'm glad most people where I live have guns in their homes for just that type of situation. By the time
police are able to respond, many times it's too late.


I sincerely hope and pray I,or anyone on this board never has to deal with that situation. I just don't understand the mindset that thinks someone that terrorizes innocent peope somehow needs to be shown leniency. I can't imagine my wife being home alone and somebody breaking in and her being helpless. I think some people here might have an attitude adjustement if it happened to them. I had an experience a long time ago back when I lived in the city. I was home alone and dozing off on the couch. I was awakened by the sound of my backdoor in the kitchen being forced open. I had a loaded gun next to me. I jumped off that couch as fast as I could. I grabbed the gun and cautiously went to the kitchen. All I saw was the door open. Whoever it was must have heard me coming. I didn't see anyone. Im not ashamed to admit I thought my heart was going to come out my chest. It scared the crap out of me. I thank god I had the gun right there. What if I would have confronted some guy or guys? To this day I don't go to bed without a gun on the nightstand.


That's unfortunate. I'd hate to live in a country where I'd have to do that.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:22 pm

I can do the same thing in Canada. I just don't have to. That's the beauty of the Great White North Jak. You need your guns because there are 299 million other guns out there.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:49 pm

Ok, cool.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:12 pm

paulsweeney wrote:I can do the same thing in Canada. I just don't have to. That's the beauty of the Great White North Jak.
You need your guns because there are 299 million other guns out there.


Exactly.

The intruder is likely to be armed because he knows the householder is !

Measures to take the guns out of the equation would break this vicious circle.

But try telling that to the NRA or Republican conservatives...................

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:37 pm

ColinB wrote:
paulsweeney wrote:I can do the same thing in Canada. I just don't have to. That's the beauty of the Great White North Jak.
You need your guns because there are 299 million other guns out there.


Exactly.

The intruder is likely to be armed because he knows the householder is !

Measures to take the guns out of the equation would break this vicious circle.

But try telling that to the NRA or Republican conservatives...................


No, the intruder is likely to be armed because he's a criminal, and a gun makes it easier for him to commit crime against the defenceless!

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:42 am

Pete Dube wrote:
ColinB wrote:
paulsweeney wrote:I can do the same thing in Canada. I just don't have to. That's the beauty of the Great White North Jak.
You need your guns because there are 299 million other guns out there.


Exactly.

The intruder is likely to be armed because he knows the householder is !

Measures to take the guns out of the equation would break this vicious circle.

But try telling that to the NRA or Republican conservatives...................


No, the intruder is likely to be armed because he's a criminal, and a gun makes it easier for him to commit crime against the defenceless!


In the US, yes they'd be armed. Not so in many other countries.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:16 am

I usually stay away from the gun arguments because it's such a hot topic, as we've seen. I see both sides of the argument, I guess. I appreciate the fact that we (U.S. citizens) have a right to own a gun. I choose not to own one, nor do I ever plan to.

But It seems to me that people take a right and manipulate it to suit greater needs (or wants). My issue is that there are some nut jobs here who think it's their right to have a freaking cannon in their living room if they so choose. Really, does anyone really need an assault rifle? Bull. The "best" argument I've heard from anyone in the U.S. about that is that it's their "right" to own one.

Sorry, that's not good enough, in my opinion.

Re: Gun-sale checks rejected in USA

Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:06 pm

Pete Dube wrote:
ColinB wrote:
paulsweeney wrote:I can do the same thing in Canada. I just don't have to. That's the beauty of the Great White North Jak.
You need your guns because there are 299 million other guns out there.


Exactly.

The intruder is likely to be armed because he knows the householder is !

Measures to take the guns out of the equation would break this vicious circle.

But try telling that to the NRA or Republican conservatives...................


No, the intruder is likely to be armed because he's a criminal, and a gun makes it easier for him to commit crime against the defenceless!


Well, no, we have criminals too, but they'd be unlikely to be toting guns, because they know householders won't be so armed.........