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Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:47 am

r&b wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:While dealing with hypothetical situations, R &B, a real Elvis comeback ( off drugs, slim, new manager, new producer, world tour) in 1979 or '80 or '85 could have been as big as any Beatle comeback.

We'll never know.

Thanks for the post, Doc.



That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:51 am

Surprised no one has posted Sid Vicious' version of "My Way" yet. I love punk, for the same reason I love the Sun masters. Such energy.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:55 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Elvis was then and still is bigger in death than any rock star or group will be in life.


Don't agree with that, but glad you enjoyed the topic.


Well it's true. 8)

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:03 am

SuspiciousMind wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Elvis was then and still is bigger in death than any rock star or group will be in life.


Don't agree with that, but glad you enjoyed the topic.


I don't know. Can Justin Beiber draw in 70,000 fans to a concert? Elvis had 70,000 at last year's candle light vigil.


That Elvis guy was pretty good, he could probably even give Bruce Springsteen a run for his money! 8)

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:16 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Bill Tanner wrote:
r&b wrote: Elvis would have hated the Pistols and the punk movement. A fan of progressive rock he was not.


Punks, for the most part, hated prog rock too.

Elvis was a punk in the 50's. It's all relative.


Spot-on. This parallel was lost on many Elvis fans in January 1978, and evidently still seems so today.


Elvis wasn't a punk. 8)

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:21 am

FredAistair wrote:
egilj wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Elvis was then and still is bigger in death than any rock star or group will be in life.


Don't agree with that, but glad you enjoyed the topic.


I don't know. Can Justin Beiber draw in 70,000 fans to a concert? Elvis had 70,000 at last year's candle light vigil.

Actually, he drew in that particualar amount of people at three concerts in Oslo this week.


A nonsensical comparasin, Beiber with David Cassidy now that you can compare.
Dead Elvis pretty much outsells live Beiber.


How can you insult David Cassidy like that? He's got talent, REAL talent!!!!! 8)

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:24 am

The Pistols, like Elvis, weren't being anything other than themselves, both responding to their environments (both for different reasons, and both with very different environments). It was their followers and the media that classified either as a "rocker" or a "punk", but both were just doing their thing, being original, and not being fakes.
I regularly play Never Mind The Bollocks nice and loud after I drop my daughter to school, and I enjoy John Lydon's tours of London and his naturalist shows. I find their documentaries The Filth & The Fury and the Classic Album doco for Never Mind The Bollocks really intriguing and engaging. If you like medium tempo, blistering music, with lyrics that take the piss out of everyone that these young working class guys were fed up with, and who felt they had no future in mid '70s England, you should at least youtube the aforementioned docos. There's a cnut or two on this forum I'd like to see Rotten have his say about, actually :lol:

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:01 am

As for what Johnny Rotten said, in full, at the news of Elvis' death, it was part of his persona. But some who expressed "grief" were jumping on the bandwagon, cause that's the way of show-biz. But he had to be a "punk," of course.

My Pistols memory. Bought the record at night on University Blvd. in Tuscaloosa. Was with a date. The southern-boy clerk looks at the cover and asks "what's Bowl-locks?" My date that night was cruel; he told him "they are members of the Bolish People."

Talk about a face-palm moment! I said "c'mon, let's get outta here." And then, yes, we both laughed. Still feel kinda guilty.

rjm

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:34 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Here's a funny memory.

Less than 5 months after Elvis died, and two days before what would have been Presley's 43rd birthday, rock 'n' roll's latest threat to the status quo, the Sex Pistols, played Memphis.



780106_Pistols Arrive In Memphis.JPG
Members of the Sex Pistols -- Sid Vicious (with cigarette), Steve Jones and Johnny Rotten (behind Jones) -- arrived at Midtown's Taliesyn Ballroom amid a tense scene as the concert had been oversold and angry fans mobbed outside the venue. Inside, the audience waited 90 minutes for the band to take the stage.
Photo: Jim Shearin, Memphis Commercial Appeal




It would be part of their only U.S. tour, one which consciously avoided New York and Los Angeles while playing several conservative southern cities. They did no Elvis covers that night.



780106_Johnny Rotten_Taliesyn Ballroom_Memphis.JPG
Johnny Rotten, on stage at Midtown's Taliesyn Ballroom in Memphis



It was also the occasion of the first "Elvis vigil" by hardcore fans, and the contrast was played out in the national press.



780109_SF Examiner p09.JPG
San Francisco Examiner, Monday, January 9, 1978
Note: former Presley bodyguard Dick Grob calls the Presley event at the Memphis Fairgrounds less than "fourth class."



The Commercial Appeal's music writer Walter Dawson gave the band high marks:


In a front-page review published the day after the concert, Dawson reported that, "What the Pistols proved was that they are indeed first-rate rock and rollers, soaked heavily in that tradition and possessing a frenzied rage that has been lacking from rock for too long."

The night Memphis met the Sex Pistols >> The Commercial Appeal
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/jan/05/the-night-memphis-met-the-sex-pistols




Sadly, the groundbreaking group would soon fragment after this tour ended, following an amazing finale at San Francisco's Winterland.


Read more here:
Sex Pistols - Memphis 1978
http://www.guerrillamonster.com/memphis/sex-pistols/index.html



Interesting pairing from January 1978. Thanks.

The older I get, the more appreciate the Pistols and Punk. They entered our world when music was losing touch with its roots through its self-indulgence. One of my favourite stories connected with Punk and Elvis concerns one Danny Baker. On the 16th August 1977, the young journalist announced over the PA to a hall full of punks that Elvis had died. Cheering followed. Outraged, Baker leapt onto the stage, called the Punks 'idiots' and said they would not be here today if it weren't for him, and they should really show some respect. Also, the cover from Clash's "London Calling" album shows that Punk and Elvis were linked by rock n roll. The spirit of 1956 lived on.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:50 pm

FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:While dealing with hypothetical situations, R &B, a real Elvis comeback ( off drugs, slim, new manager, new producer, world tour) in 1979 or '80 or '85 could have been as big as any Beatle comeback.

We'll never know.

Thanks for the post, Doc.



That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.


If I haven't addressed his point, sorry, but I certainly don't agree with it. No Elvis comeback would have over shadowed A Beatles reunion. As for them being crappy live, they got sloppy yes, basically didn't hear themselves after a while, but some of the Cavern tapes prove otherwise. It was because of the great live performances they became noticed and gained a following.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:04 pm

r&b wrote:
FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:While dealing with hypothetical situations, R &B, a real Elvis comeback ( off drugs, slim, new manager, new producer, world tour) in 1979 or '80 or '85 could have been as big as any Beatle comeback.

We'll never know.

Thanks for the post, Doc.



That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.


If I haven't addressed his point, sorry, but I certainly don't agree with it. No Elvis comeback would have over shadowed A Beatles reunion. As for them being crappy live, they got sloppy yes, basically didn't hear themselves after a while, but some of the Cavern tapes prove otherwise. It was because of the great live performances they became noticed and gained a following.




Pressumably the "reunion" scenario you keep throwing up is just your opinion? Best not forget that The Beatles did try doing bits and pieces togeather after they split. They all had input into Ringo Starr's 1973 album... the one that peaked at No7 in the UK album charts. What a monster that was... people were queuing round street corners in anticipation. Face facts, they were a spent force as a group that's why they split up! The magic had gone and, individually they were no better than average. They gave everything they could give. With Elvis the tradgedy is that he could have given even more! That's why he would and will, never be overshadowed. IMO.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:14 pm

I was 14 back in 1977 when I first heard the Sex PIstols and Punk in general, and the ridiculous response from the media, which only endeared the movement to other kids like myself, I can remember thinking back then that it was a similar, albeit on a smaller scale, response to how Elvis was first viewed/treated back in the 50's, and they rescued me from a lifetime of Abba, Showaddywaddy and Brotherhood of Man :)

Whether you like them or not, they changed the music scene, influenced 100s of other bands and created one of the greatest albums of all time.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:15 pm

jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:
FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:While dealing with hypothetical situations, R &B, a real Elvis comeback ( off drugs, slim, new manager, new producer, world tour) in 1979 or '80 or '85 could have been as big as any Beatle comeback.

We'll never know.

Thanks for the post, Doc.



That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.


If I haven't addressed his point, sorry, but I certainly don't agree with it. No Elvis comeback would have over shadowed A Beatles reunion. As for them being crappy live, they got sloppy yes, basically didn't hear themselves after a while, but some of the Cavern tapes prove otherwise. It was because of the great live performances they became noticed and gained a following.




Pressumably the "reunion" scenario you keep throwing up is just your opinion? Best not forget that The Beatles did try doing bits and pieces togeather after they split. They all had input into Ringo Starr's 1973 album... the one that peaked at No7 in the UK album charts. What a monster that was... people were queuing round street corners in anticipation. Face facts, they were a spent force as a group that's why they split up! The magic had gone and, individually they were no better than average. They gave everything they could give. With Elvis the tradgedy is that he could have given even more! That's why he would and will, never be overshadowed. IMO.


How the hell can a solo 1973 Ringo album with individual inputs on different songs be even remotely compared to a real Beatles reunion? Amazing comparison. And I had originally said if Lennon had lived which would have put this reunion in the 80's sometime. I think by then demand would have been at an all time high. The Beatles are more important and listened to with most folks 50 and under that I know. Elvis is not revered as much. I think it is you that have to face facts. Elvis is not even played on oldies radio anymore unless it is Ghetto, Suspicious Minds, Wonder Of You or Burning Love.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:25 pm

ian wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
SuspiciousMind wrote:Elvis was then and still is bigger in death than any rock star or group will be in life.


Don't agree with that, but glad you enjoyed the topic.


Well it's true. 8)


Nope.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:27 pm

I'm not really a fan of punk rock music although i liked the Clash better than the Sex Pistols.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:39 pm

ian wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Bill Tanner wrote:
r&b wrote: Elvis would have hated the Pistols and the punk movement. A fan of progressive rock he was not.


Punks, for the most part, hated prog rock too.

Elvis was a punk in the 50's. It's all relative.


Spot-on. This parallel was lost on many Elvis fans in January 1978, and evidently still seems so today.


Elvis wasn't a punk. 8)



You might just be mistaken.


570000_Rock n Roll No. 2_HMV.JPG
Elvis Presley - Rock 'n' Roll No. 2 (HMV CLP 1105, 1957)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:41 pm

FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.


Not to veer off-topic, but this statement is proven false by the historical record, by the way.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:42 pm

Jim Dandy wrote:The Pistols, like Elvis, weren't being anything other than themselves, both responding to their environments (both for different reasons, and both with very different environments). It was their followers and the media that classified either as a "rocker" or a "punk", but both were just doing their thing, being original, and not being fakes.
I regularly play Never Mind The Bollocks nice and loud after I drop my daughter to school, and I enjoy John Lydon's tours of London and his naturalist shows. I find their documentaries The Filth & The Fury and the Classic Album doco for Never Mind The Bollocks really intriguing and engaging. If you like medium tempo, blistering music, with lyrics that take the piss out of everyone that these young working class guys were fed up with, and who felt they had no future in mid '70s England, you should at least youtube the aforementioned docos. There's a cnut or two on this forum I'd like to see Rotten have his say about, actually :lol:


Excellent post.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:43 pm

rjm wrote:As for what Johnny Rotten said, in full, at the news of Elvis' death, it was part of his persona. But some who expressed "grief" were jumping on the bandwagon, cause that's the way of show-biz. But he had to be a "punk," of course.


Given that he was actually a fan of early Elvis, his statements are not only in line with the prevailing view of how outdated the old guard had become, but also reflect a deep sense of regret over Presley's sad fall from grace.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:47 pm

Suds wrote:Interesting pairing from January 1978. Thanks.

The older I get, the more appreciate the Pistols and Punk. They entered our world when music was losing touch with its roots through its self-indulgence. One of my favourite stories connected with Punk and Elvis concerns one Danny Baker. On the 16th August 1977, the young journalist announced over the PA to a hall full of punks that Elvis had died. Cheering followed. Outraged, Baker leapt onto the stage, called the Punks 'idiots' and said they would not be here today if it weren't for him, and they should really show some respect. Also, the cover from Clash's "London Calling" album shows that Punk and Elvis were linked by rock n roll. The spirit of 1956 lived on.


Great post. And the Clash's cover homage still shines today.

The original 1956 cover of the first album is perfection:

Image

Elvis Presley (RCA, March 1956)


And 23 years later:

Image

The Clash - London Calling (CBS, December 1979)

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:59 pm

Liverbobs wrote:I was 14 back in 1977 when I first heard the Sex PIstols and Punk in general, and the ridiculous response from the media, which only endeared the movement to other kids like myself, I can remember thinking back then that it was a similar, albeit on a smaller scale, response to how Elvis was first viewed/treated back in the 50's, and they rescued me from a lifetime of Abba, Showaddywaddy and Brotherhood of Man :)

To align a group of ABBA's magnitude and significance with the likes of Showaddywaddy and Brotherhood of Man is just silly.

Are you aware that Glen Matlock's riffs on Pretty Vacant were inspired by ABBA's S.O.S. ?

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:28 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.


Not to veer off-topic, but this statement is proven false by the historical record, by the way.


Some views are subjective, other from personal knowledge, memory and reading.
This is just a general list of great live acts who were better.

Stones
Creedence Clearwater
The Who
Traffic
Chicago
Led Zeppelin
Grateful Dead
Eagles
Cream
The Byrds
Santana

Rolling Stones magazine has its own list, which is headed by Springsteen and the E Street Band

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:54 am

FredAistair wrote:Some views are subjective ...


Your comments are off-topic, not to mention wrong. There are a number of discussions here that might enlighten you, please do a search and read them. Thanks.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:59 am

r&b wrote:
jungleroombear wrote:
r&b wrote:
FredAistair wrote:
r&b wrote:
Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:While dealing with hypothetical situations, R &B, a real Elvis comeback ( off drugs, slim, new manager, new producer, world tour) in 1979 or '80 or '85 could have been as big as any Beatle comeback.

We'll never know.

Thanks for the post, Doc.



That already happened (except the manager/world tour) in 1968/69. The world took notice, Elvis was relevant again for a short while and then we moved on. I think a Beatles reunion would have been much bigger. They, by all accounts , were the most critically acclaimed rock/pop music act of all time.


Wrong ! - You haven't addressed Gregory's point, a real comback. Instead of Elvis getting lazy and without a challange to interest him after 1973. And by the way, the Beatles were not that great a live band. There were dozens of Rock bands who were better and more exciting live.


If I haven't addressed his point, sorry, but I certainly don't agree with it. No Elvis comeback would have over shadowed A Beatles reunion. As for them being crappy live, they got sloppy yes, basically didn't hear themselves after a while, but some of the Cavern tapes prove otherwise. It was because of the great live performances they became noticed and gained a following.




Pressumably the "reunion" scenario you keep throwing up is just your opinion? Best not forget that The Beatles did try doing bits and pieces togeather after they split. They all had input into Ringo Starr's 1973 album... the one that peaked at No7 in the UK album charts. What a monster that was... people were queuing round street corners in anticipation. Face facts, they were a spent force as a group that's why they split up! The magic had gone and, individually they were no better than average. They gave everything they could give. With Elvis the tradgedy is that he could have given even more! That's why he would and will, never be overshadowed. IMO.


How the hell can a solo 1973 Ringo album with individual inputs on different songs be even remotely compared to a real Beatles reunion? Amazing comparison. And I had originally said if Lennon had lived which would have put this reunion in the 80's sometime. I think by then demand would have been at an all time high. The Beatles are more important and listened to with most folks 50 and under that I know. Elvis is not revered as much. I think it is you that have to face facts. Elvis is not even played on oldies radio anymore unless it is Ghetto, Suspicious Minds, Wonder Of You or Burning Love.


Stop it! You are obviously some Beatles troll and whilst there's nothing bad about that, you being here pretending for so long is a lil spooky and slightly sinister.

Re: Elvis Defeats Sex Pistols --> January 1978!

Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:01 am

jungleroombear wrote:Stop it! You are obviously some Beatles troll and whilst there's nothing bad about that, you being here pretending for so long is a lil spooky and slightly sinister.


I don't see it.