Off Topic Messages

Congratulations to New Zealand...

Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:08 am

...for not only legalising gay marriage, but for having entertaining politicians.

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Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:38 am

Sometimes we get it right :D

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:50 pm

Well done NZ. Our idiot Aussie PM will be replaced by another idiot Aussie PM later in the year but on this issue nothing will change.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:24 am

Hey poormadpeter, I think your great and enjoy reading your views but I have to say that i DO NOT support gay marriage. I believe that there would be far-reaching ramifications and that you have to draw the line at some point. Also you need to consider what this would mean for the families of the couples (probably a lot or ridicule) and what about if the couple wants to introduce children in their "marriage" ? It would be a lot of ridiculing for the child growing up by other children of male-female parenting.
Another thing. Why is this such a burning issue in western countries all of the sudden? Gay couples can still lead happy and satisfied lives without actually being married! There are a lot more important issues in the world that the governments should be addressing.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:36 am

People can believe what they want, Rob. But the families of those gay men getting married probably support them, and in modern society are really unlikely to be ridiculed. My guess therefore is that you don't know many gay couples or families of gay couples. I've been out for fifteen years and only had one bad reaction to being gay, and that was backin 1998. That's real life, so to speak, and not on here - but then people can do what they like online without suffering the consequences. As for the gay and lesbian couples having kids, well the way I look at it is this. Many many people bring kids into this world and treat them like sh*t, or don't spend time with them, or even treat them as a commodity. A gay or lesbian couple has to make such an effort in order to have kids that we can almost guarantee that any couple going through that must want them very dearly - and that is certainly the case in the two examples of gay couples with kids that I know. One of the kids has been bullied at school. But kids get bullied for something as minor as the colour of their hair or being crap at football. No couple - gay or straight - can protect their kids from every ar*ehole on the planet, but we can all love them and give them support when they need us.

I'm not quite sure what the far-reaching ramifications that you talk of are likely to be. There will be no droughts, or invasions by locusts. There will be no nuclear bombs dropped. Two people who love each other will tie the knot. What the ramifications of that could possibly be, I'm not sure.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:04 am

carolynlm wrote:Every person on this earth has a right to live the way they choose to, if it is not harming others.
Gay people should have the right to find a partner and to marry that partner if that's what they choose to do. As far as having children....how many 'straight' couples out there shouldn't never have been allowed to breed?
It wasn't too many years ago that the marriage between white and coloured people was not allowed. How bizarre do we think that is now?
I have been 'married' twice.....once legally and once not.....and I didn't like either, one little bit, but I had a CHOICE.....



Well stated.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:34 am

poormadpeter wrote:People can believe what they want, Rob. But the families of those gay men getting married probably support them, and in modern society are really unlikely to be ridiculed. My guess therefore is that you don't know many gay couples or families of gay couples. I've been out for fifteen years and only had one bad reaction to being gay, and that was backin 1998. That's real life, so to speak, and not on here - but then people can do what they like online without suffering the consequences. As for the gay and lesbian couples having kids, well the way I look at it is this. Many many people bring kids into this world and treat them like sh*t, or don't spend time with them, or even treat them as a commodity. A gay or lesbian couple has to make such an effort in order to have kids that we can almost guarantee that any couple going through that must want them very dearly - and that is certainly the case in the two examples of gay couples with kids that I know. One of the kids has been bullied at school. But kids get bullied for something as minor as the colour of their hair or being crap at football. No couple - gay or straight - can protect their kids from every ar*ehole on the planet, but we can all love them and give them support when they need us.

I'm not quite sure what the far-reaching ramifications that you talk of are likely to be. There will be no droughts, or invasions by locusts. There will be no nuclear bombs dropped. Two people who love each other will tie the knot. What the ramifications of that could possibly be, I'm not sure.


The ridicule. This isn't just about the couple but also about their families or any children they want to adopt. Also if you don't draw the line somewhere then in about 20-30 years what's to stop threesomes also wanting to be recognised in modern society by being "married" or worse still Brother-Sister "marriages" ?

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:46 am

What are the advantages of getting married ? Don't they have the same rights as a couple if they do a civil union? I really dislike that if you are not in favor, people are labelled as gay haters.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:33 am

Robt wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:People can believe what they want, Rob. But the families of those gay men getting married probably support them, and in modern society are really unlikely to be ridiculed. My guess therefore is that you don't know many gay couples or families of gay couples. I've been out for fifteen years and only had one bad reaction to being gay, and that was backin 1998. That's real life, so to speak, and not on here - but then people can do what they like online without suffering the consequences. As for the gay and lesbian couples having kids, well the way I look at it is this. Many many people bring kids into this world and treat them like sh*t, or don't spend time with them, or even treat them as a commodity. A gay or lesbian couple has to make such an effort in order to have kids that we can almost guarantee that any couple going through that must want them very dearly - and that is certainly the case in the two examples of gay couples with kids that I know. One of the kids has been bullied at school. But kids get bullied for something as minor as the colour of their hair or being crap at football. No couple - gay or straight - can protect their kids from every ar*ehole on the planet, but we can all love them and give them support when they need us.

I'm not quite sure what the far-reaching ramifications that you talk of are likely to be. There will be no droughts, or invasions by locusts. There will be no nuclear bombs dropped. Two people who love each other will tie the knot. What the ramifications of that could possibly be, I'm not sure.


The ridicule. This isn't just about the couple but also about their families or any children they want to adopt. Also if you don't draw the line somewhere then in about 20-30 years what's to stop threesomes also wanting to be recognised in modern society by being "married" or worse still Brother-Sister "marriages" ?


Because "three" is bigamy, and "Brother-Sister" is incest.

Two consenting adults is . . . two consenting adults.

rjm
P.S. -- My parents are not gay (tee-hee; it was a while back), and I was bullied mercilessly from the age of 7 'till I left high school. Why? I went to 17 different schools, and was always "new." Kids get bullied for all kinds of reasons, and bullying should be fought, not the victims or their family situation. Kids get bullied 'cause they're adopted, or other family situations. They deserve, at least, loving parents.

Oh, and Maurice Williamson would knock Jon Stewart off the air, if they Comedy Central "discovered" him! (The Daily Show is news program with a comic twist; The Colbert Report is political news satire, rather than plain comedy. This guy rises above Stewart's level of sophistication!)
Last edited by rjm on Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:52 am

carolynlm wrote:Kids are ridiculed for bloody everything......I was ridiculed at school because the school policy stated that if your parents didn't pay your school fees, you weren't entitled to have a school badge...so every kid, including me, who hadn't had their school fees paid was bullied because we didn't have a badge...and everyone at the school knew...how bad is that? I have since purchased one, but when I got it, I put it away because I realised that it represented a time in my life where I was bullied.
Brooke was bullied at school because her step father was a cop...but now she is a member of our armed forces and is an amazing contributor to our society. I know these are minor examples, but I think this generation are becoming more tolerant of gays and lesbians.
It's a right to be married.....some agree with marriage, some don't...but it shouldn't depend on whether you are a same sex couple or not.


If it does go ahead how do we go about addressing a gay married couple ? Husband and Husband and Wife and Wife ? :roll: Or In decades to come we could do away with the Husband and Wife terminology and not have any at all.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:55 am

rjm wrote:
Robt wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:People can believe what they want, Rob. But the families of those gay men getting married probably support them, and in modern society are really unlikely to be ridiculed. My guess therefore is that you don't know many gay couples or families of gay couples. I've been out for fifteen years and only had one bad reaction to being gay, and that was backin 1998. That's real life, so to speak, and not on here - but then people can do what they like online without suffering the consequences. As for the gay and lesbian couples having kids, well the way I look at it is this. Many many people bring kids into this world and treat them like sh*t, or don't spend time with them, or even treat them as a commodity. A gay or lesbian couple has to make such an effort in order to have kids that we can almost guarantee that any couple going through that must want them very dearly - and that is certainly the case in the two examples of gay couples with kids that I know. One of the kids has been bullied at school. But kids get bullied for something as minor as the colour of their hair or being crap at football. No couple - gay or straight - can protect their kids from every ar*ehole on the planet, but we can all love them and give them support when they need us.

I'm not quite sure what the far-reaching ramifications that you talk of are likely to be. There will be no droughts, or invasions by locusts. There will be no nuclear bombs dropped. Two people who love each other will tie the knot. What the ramifications of that could possibly be, I'm not sure.


The ridicule. This isn't just about the couple but also about their families or any children they want to adopt. Also if you don't draw the line somewhere then in about 20-30 years what's to stop threesomes also wanting to be recognised in modern society by being "married" or worse still Brother-Sister "marriages" ?


Because "three" is bigamy, and "Brother-Sister" is incest.

Two consenting adults is . . . two consenting adults.

rjm
P.S. -- My parents are not gay (tee-hee; it was a while back), and I was bullied mercilessly from the age of 7 'till I left high school. Why? I went 17 different schools, and was always "new." Kids get bullied for all kinds of reasons, and bullying should be fought, not the victims or their family situation. Kids get bullied 'cause they're adopted, or other family situations. They deserve, at least, loving parents.


Not Bigamy. You do realize there are people in this world that live and love as threesomes ! You watch if this thing with Gay marriages goes ahead then it will open up the floodgates for a threesome marriage.

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:09 am

Robt wrote:
carolynlm wrote:Kids are ridiculed for bloody everything......I was ridiculed at school because the school policy stated that if your parents didn't pay your school fees, you weren't entitled to have a school badge...so every kid, including me, who hadn't had their school fees paid was bullied because we didn't have a badge...and everyone at the school knew...how bad is that? I have since purchased one, but when I got it, I put it away because I realised that it represented a time in my life where I was bullied.
Brooke was bullied at school because her step father was a cop...but now she is a member of our armed forces and is an amazing contributor to our society. I know these are minor examples, but I think this generation are becoming more tolerant of gays and lesbians.
It's a right to be married.....some agree with marriage, some don't...but it shouldn't depend on whether you are a same sex couple or not.


If it does go ahead how do we go about addressing a gay married couple ? Husband and Husband and Wife and Wife ? :roll: Or In decades to come we could do away with the Husband and Wife terminology and not have any at all.


"Nice to meet you." That is how you would address someone on meeting them.

Robt wrote:Not Bigamy. You do realize there are people in this world that live and love as threesomes ! You watch if this thing with Gay marriages goes ahead then it will open up the floodgates for a threesome marriage.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/ wrote:bigamy

big·a·my noun \ˈbi-gə-mē\

Definition of BIGAMY

: the act of entering into a marriage with one person while still legally married to another


rjm

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:36 am

Yes, just imagine floods of Gays coming down an interstate near you.

Most Kiwis are could not care less. I have suspected for years now that NZ (and Australia )is very similar to San Francisco in that the moral stance is

Live and Let Live

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:02 am

The way it's going they'll be coming down near your neck of the woods first :wink:

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:01 pm

Robt wrote:
rjm wrote:
Robt wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:People can believe what they want, Rob. But the families of those gay men getting married probably support them, and in modern society are really unlikely to be ridiculed. My guess therefore is that you don't know many gay couples or families of gay couples. I've been out for fifteen years and only had one bad reaction to being gay, and that was backin 1998. That's real life, so to speak, and not on here - but then people can do what they like online without suffering the consequences. As for the gay and lesbian couples having kids, well the way I look at it is this. Many many people bring kids into this world and treat them like sh*t, or don't spend time with them, or even treat them as a commodity. A gay or lesbian couple has to make such an effort in order to have kids that we can almost guarantee that any couple going through that must want them very dearly - and that is certainly the case in the two examples of gay couples with kids that I know. One of the kids has been bullied at school. But kids get bullied for something as minor as the colour of their hair or being crap at football. No couple - gay or straight - can protect their kids from every ar*ehole on the planet, but we can all love them and give them support when they need us.

I'm not quite sure what the far-reaching ramifications that you talk of are likely to be. There will be no droughts, or invasions by locusts. There will be no nuclear bombs dropped. Two people who love each other will tie the knot. What the ramifications of that could possibly be, I'm not sure.


The ridicule. This isn't just about the couple but also about their families or any children they want to adopt. Also if you don't draw the line somewhere then in about 20-30 years what's to stop threesomes also wanting to be recognised in modern society by being "married" or worse still Brother-Sister "marriages" ?


Because "three" is bigamy, and "Brother-Sister" is incest.

Two consenting adults is . . . two consenting adults.

rjm
P.S. -- My parents are not gay (tee-hee; it was a while back), and I was bullied mercilessly from the age of 7 'till I left high school. Why? I went 17 different schools, and was always "new." Kids get bullied for all kinds of reasons, and bullying should be fought, not the victims or their family situation. Kids get bullied 'cause they're adopted, or other family situations. They deserve, at least, loving parents.


Not Bigamy. You do realize there are people in this world that live and love as threesomes ! You watch if this thing with Gay marriages goes ahead then it will open up the floodgates for a threesome marriage.


It has taken 2000 years for marriages to take on the form of same sex couples. I really don't think incestuous relationships will be legalised any time soon, given that time frame.

And, quite frankly, Rob, if people want to live as threesomes what harm is it doing you? Because you like your twosome? Well, I'm happy in my onesome, but I don't object to however other people want to live their lives as couples.

And, referring to your previous post, if your biggest worry about this is that you don't know what to call the couple then really you do need to get a life.

As for the differences between civil partnerships and marriage, in the UK it is the following.

1.) Civil partners do not have the same pension rights as married couples. If one civil partner dies, the pension share that the surviving partner receives is often lower and lasts for less time than with married couples.

2.) Though not all straight people do get married, marriage with a loved partner is an option that is legally available to them. Advocates for equal marriage speak of the emotional resonance marriage holds. Marriage represents a form of inclusion within society. It is a way of belonging to a cultural group and buying into values seen as respectable and acceptable. The language of marriage carries a social weight that civil partnership does not. This is a reason why civil partners often refer to their partnerships as 'marriages', rather than 'partnerships'. Those who back equal marriage say using a different word indicates that society attaches less importance to civil partnerships.

3.) Travel restrictions apply to civil partners but not married couples. Countries like Sweden, Argentina and Portugal, where same-sex marriage is legal, do not see civil partnerships as marriage. This means UK civil partners living abroad do not enjoy the same rights as same-sex married couples in the 11 countries where equal marriage is legal.

4.) Official forms such as the UK census require a declaration of marital status. This often means that civilly partnered people are forced to state their sexuality, ticking a separate box that says 'civil partnership' rather than 'marriage'.

5.) Unlike marriages, consummation is not a legal requirement of civil partnerships. Neither is adultery recognized as grounds for dissolution. ...There is also no requirement for civil partners to take any vows. These variations mean that UK marriage law doesn't necessarily cover civil partnership, opening the door for different treatment of gay couples.

Points above condensed from the article to be found in full here: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/seven-ways-civil-partnership-isnt-same-marriage250113

Re: Congratulations to New Zealand...

Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:51 am

Wonderful video of the spectators in the NZ parliament breaking into song after the results of the vote were announced. :)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/apr/18/new-zealand-parliament-song-gay-marriage-video