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Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:30 am

Blue River wrote:
brian wrote:
Blue River wrote:I think if Elvis had actually written his major hits he would've felt much differently about the way he performed them on stage. He would've had a personal bond with the songs from having an investment in the way they were created from scratch.

even if he'd written them i think he'd still get tired of them.

We'll never know for sure. However, I think if he'd written songs like "In The Ghetto" & "Kentucky Rain" in 1969, he would've been more than happy and proud to sing them on stage throughout the 70's until the end of his career.

Strange how he dropped those from his setlist after 1970!


It does seem odd that Elvis didn't keep such songs in his act, but then if we look at Elvis's act as the 70s progressed then in kind of becomes clearer. Kentucky Rain was performed live in the first instance because it was the current or recent single. When the next single came out, then that obviously took its place (I've Lost You, for example in 1970, I'm Leavin' in 1971 etc).

In The Ghetto is probably a different thing altogether. After 1970, both Elvis's studio recordings and live performances seemed to dwell on "big" show-off numbers rather than more subtle numbers such as In The Ghetto - a song which is going to require more vocal control than, say, You Gave Me A Mountain. I'm sure that's part of the reason why songs such as Separate Ways and Always On My Mind never made the setlists either. As Presley's shows became more bombastic, they didn't really have a place in them, and even though the shows were more relaxed (and more country-based) in the summer of '75, by that time his voice was frayed around the edges and it was easier to wade through Fairytale which required little subtlety than take the risk of performing more quieter ballads. The one that did seem to stay in was And I Love You So, and of all songs that's often a guide as to how good/bad Presley's physical condition was at the time of a show. On a good day it was very nice, on a bad day his vibrato sounds like he's sitting on a washing machine on spin and has no breath control whatsoever.

Songs such as Polk Salad Annie, Suspicious Minds and Burning Love might have required more energy, but they required no vocal subtlety or grace, and were therefore easier to perform as Presley's health and stamina deteriorated.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:41 pm

Blue River wrote:I think if Elvis had actually written his major hits he would've felt much differently about the way he performed them on stage. He would've had a personal bond with the songs from having an investment in the way they were created from scratch.


sweetangeline wrote:obviously I have to be a little more clearer with you than I do with others so I will make it very simple this time, but remember this is just for you

I don`t think Elvis not writing it, has anything to do with it


...and I`m addressing the simple fact that your suggesting if Elvis actually wrote his material, then he would have possibly performed full versions of them in the 70`s, I`m saying I DISAGREE, now what part of this don`t you understand, is it the first word "and" :wtf:

there are many other reasons why he didn`t perform full versions, but not writing them isn`t one, sorry to let you down but please keep pursuing that dream of yours

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:50 pm

sweetangeline wrote:
Blue River wrote: What the heck are you talking about?!

With the 1-minute zip-throughs and fast-as-lightening medleys Elvis showed that he didn't have a very strong bond with a lot of those 50's hits!
In the 1950's he practically made all those hits "his own", but only bothered to perform a handful of them properly in the 1970's.

Geeezz... even your boy, drjohncarpenter, sees it that way, too. How can you, of all people, go against what he says?!


Blue River wrote:I think if Elvis had actually written his major hits he would've felt much differently about the way he performed them on stage. He would've had a personal bond with the songs from having an investment in the way they were created from scratch.


obviously I have to be a little more clearer with you than I do with others so I will make it very simple this time, but remember this is just for you

I don`t think Elvis not writing it, has anything to smt185 do with it


:D

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:07 am

In retrospect the Aloha medley of Long Tall Sally and Whole Lotta Shakin is like Mystery Train compared to the 1974 medley. The horns in the 74 medley make me ill. And was it humanly possible to run through those tracks any faster. God he must hated that material. I suspect he died a little every time he sang hound dog after 1969. He wanted to be a sophisticated contemporary artist not an oldies act. Must of plain given up.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:20 am

sweetangeline wrote:I tend to think that elvis had a very strong bond with a lot of those 50`s hits, especially the ones where he truly made them his own!!

:smt018 Obviously not, sweetie. Far too often in the 1970's he turned to medleys and/or zipped through his hits as quickly as possible. Even your lord and saviour, drjohncarpenter, has knocked Elvis on this issue... and you certainly wouldn't want to argue with him.

Now you behave yourself and be a good little girl.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:48 am

fn2drive wrote:He wanted to be a sophisticated contemporary artist not an oldies act.

One listen to his 1973 Stax recordings suggests otherwise.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:53 am

fn2drive wrote: He wanted to be a sophisticated contemporary artist not an oldies act. Must of plain given up.

Yeah... must of. :facep:


midnightx wrote:
fn2drive wrote:He wanted to be a sophisticated contemporary artist not an oldies act.

One listen to his 1973 Stax recordings suggests otherwise.

C'mon midnightx, he recorded "Raised On Rock". What more could anyone expect?!

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:32 am

Blue River wrote:Now you behave yourself and be a good little girl.


:smt121 have fun with that :wink:

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:39 am

Guys I said wanted to be. He had pretty much lost his will to create and was surrounded by no one who could help him break out of the creative nightmare. Crappy songs delivered by a crappy publishing company; an addicted gambler as a manager taking half of what he earned; being continuously told how great his shows were by the syncophants he surrounded himself when he knew he was sleep walking. And that is how we wound up with this medley-he just didn't care

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:02 am

fn2drive wrote:And that is how we wound up with this medley-he just didn't care

He didn't care in general. That is why he kept recycling his tired stage show, kept donning the same gaudy stage costumes, kept promoting the same routines (dive-bombing/Amen), etc. It was an easy way to make a lot of money with little effort. If anything, one could argue the extended medley was a way to inject something new into the mix. Granted he didn’t want to over-extend the amount of effort major changes would typically require, but the fact he shook things up a bit by inserting a new medley into the set shows he was at least doing something. Again, I am more than happy to hear a handful of his former hits in this configuration because it gets them out of the way much more quickly – if only he could have used another 30 seconds to include Love Me Tender, Don’t Be Cruel, and Teddy Bear, everyone could have relieved of having to listen to those tracks get slaughtered at other times during the concerts.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:42 am

No, he didnt care, but I thing one would find it difficult to argue that this medley (in Memphis at least) was thrown away in the same way as Teddy bear/don't be cruel and the like were on a regular basis. The rock n roll medley isn't used a vehicle for wandering around the stage throwing scarves to the audience and kissing women - it is, at least, sung with some care and attention and commitment.

And we can hardly refer to this as an "Elvis hits medley", when only two out of the six songs are actually Elvis hits, and Jailhouse Rock only has the smallest of mentions here anyway. I think the medley might have worked better without any of his own hits in there. Swap Jailhouse Rock for Shake, Rattle and Roll, for example, and lose Hound Dog altogether. That would probably sit better,but he obviously thought he could kill two birds with one stone by including those two in there. But to my ears, the medley works better than a one-minute version of All Shook Up, or a lazy rendition of teddy Bear/Don't Be Cruel. At least the arrangement has some balls.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:17 am

I think one of the reasons is Elvis choose the medley route was this.

Look at the time in context, which is alwasy important.

The 1950's were seeing a renewed interest in 1972-75.

Chuck Berry, Elvis, Ricky Nelson, and others were finding renewed popularity due to Nostalgia from
the Happy Days TV show, American Graffiti movie and so forth.

Remember the other artists from Elvis' era were doing full versions of thier songs.

But they were all referred to as "oldies acts" and I think Elvis feared that title.

He wanted to move on and be current so he put more energy into his new material than his old hits.

Mind you he didn't do that with all of his hits. He still gave some of his old songs respect, such as "I got a woman", "trying to get to you", "That's all right", and to some extent,
even "Heartbreak hotel" was given a pretty good treatment.

Part of the problem was the band. They played basic chords and Ronnie just pounded away on his drum kit and the band failed to give the
songs the unique nuances that they had in the 50's. The music backing was very ordinary for songs like "All shook up", "Don't be cruel", etc.

"My baby left me" was done pretty well, and had that unique bass and guitar feeling that it had in the 50's. They carried out that arrangement fairly well.

Others they didn't. "One night" was done good on some night and on some night not so good.

"it's now or never" is a good example of the band screwing it up with that horn blaring thing.

But then again, they did the original guitar intro for it, in Dec. 1976 and it was done nicely. The feel was back.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:21 am

Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:31 am

Revelator wrote:Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.

I disagree. People can like or dislike medleys as much that they want, but to say that a medley is bizarre and slapdash, well, it simply isn't true. A well done medley can be highly entertaining and full of energy. I have been to concerts where a medley has been one of the highlights of the show.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:58 am

Xaykev wrote:
Revelator wrote:Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.

I disagree. People can like or dislike medleys as much that they want, but to say that a medley is bizarre and slapdash, well, it simply isn't true. A well done medley can be highly entertaining and full of energy. I have been to concerts where a medley has been one of the highlights of the show.

I heard Doug Church really dazzles audiences with a good medley.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:28 am

Revelator wrote:Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.


Beautiful, intelligent and totally spot-on summary of the discussion. You know your music, my friend.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:28 am

midnightx wrote:
Xaykev wrote:I disagree. People can like or dislike medleys as much that they want, but to say that a medley is bizarre and slapdash, well, it simply isn't true. A well done medley can be highly entertaining and full of energy. I have been to concerts where a medley has been one of the highlights of the show.

I heard Doug Church really dazzles audiences with a good medley.


:D :D :D :D :D

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:13 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Revelator wrote:Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.


Beautiful, intelligent and totally spot-on summary of the discussion. You know your music, my friend.


I always thought (even in 74 when I was 13) that including Mama "Can't" Dance as ill conceived attempt to be current.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:59 pm

eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Revelator wrote:Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.


Beautiful, intelligent and totally spot-on summary of the discussion. You know your music, my friend.


I always thought (even in 74 when I was 13) that including Mama "Can't" Dance as ill conceived attempt to be current.


Don't think so.

He was not trying to be current with that song.

He included it more than likely because it sounded retro.

It sounds just like "Shake rattle and roll".

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:17 pm

In it's original Loggins & Messina hit single incarnation Your Mama Can't Dance was an effective, entertaining tribute to old-school 50's rock & roll. Elvis' medley excerpt is nothing more than a nod to the tune, signifying that he was aware of it and nothing more. Heck, he even finishes the YMCD chorus with the tag line from Shake, Rattle & Roll. Then again, the line "When evening comes to town and it's time to go around where do you go to rock & roll" would've been extremely difficult to vocally squeeze in in the medley.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:48 pm

eligain wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Revelator wrote:Medleys are the sort of thing that now seem bizarre and slapdash but were once regrettably common--anyone who's a fan of The Temptations knows they relied on them quite a bit, even in their prime. Elvis easily got away with medleys in '68 because his vocals were on fire and because the arrangements, though vulgar and unsubtle, were still more interesting than the ones he later used. In that respect, the seeds of later decline were sown in '69 and '70, when Elvis chose to go with rather bland arrangements for the oldies. The strength of his performance (and that of the band) made the performances work, but when Elvis lost interest, the oldies were not even notable as instrumentals. And making a medley of "Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin'/Mama Don't Dance" was a horrible idea. "Long Tall Sally" is an explosion of a song that requires space for blast crater, and the decision to sing "Mama Don't Dance" can only be chalked up to a lapse in taste.


Beautiful, intelligent and totally spot-on summary of the discussion. You know your music, my friend.


I always thought (even in 74 when I was 13) that including Mama "Can't" Dance as ill conceived attempt to be current.


Glad I am not the only one who noticed.

Your Mama Don't Dance
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_Mama_Don't_Dance

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:27 pm

I will go even further. I don't think Elvis cared for rock and roll, maybe even as far back as the 60's. All those home recordings he did, Cry To Me From Naples, Dark Moon, etc. Where is the boy from Tupelo on those tapes? I think he only did rock and roll because that's what was expected of him, and this rush medley thing was like someone says, a nod to the past and lets get it out of the way. Look at how he had to be forced to cut Burning Love, maybe his best 70's song. Felton Jarvis of all people recognized the song's potential. As far back as the 50's in interviews, Elvis always said, I'll do the songs that people want to hear, but was it the songs he wanted to really sing? After all these years, I think maybe not. Despite what some may believe here, Elvis did not rock in the 70's. I've seen rockabilly house bands that rocked better and harder. He had one of the best bands in the world and he preferred to drown them out with ghastly horns and chorus singers.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:37 pm

r&b wrote:Despite what some may believe here, Elvis did not rock in the 70's. I've seen rockabilly house bands that rocked better and harder. He had one of the best bands in the world and he preferred to drown them out with ghastly horns and chorus singers.

I don't recall ever seeing a post claiming that Elvis "rocked" hard in the 1970s.

That said, there are plenty of examples of Elvis' stage ensemble from the 1970/1971 period laying down a heavy groove -- and those infrequent moments were not intended to dominate his eclectic set list. Additionally, while he had some fine players in his band, it is probably a stretch to assert that he had "one of the best bands in the world."

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:46 pm

r&b wrote:I don't think Elvis cared for rock and roll, maybe even as far back as the 60's. All those home recordings he did, Cry To Me From Naples, Dark Moon, etc. Where is the boy from Tupelo on those tapes? I think he only did rock and roll because that's what was expected of him(...)

I agree.

Re: Long Tall Sally/Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On/Mama Don't

Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:55 pm

midnightx wrote:
r&b wrote:Despite what some may believe here, Elvis did not rock in the 70's. I've seen rockabilly house bands that rocked better and harder. He had one of the best bands in the world and he preferred to drown them out with ghastly horns and chorus singers.

I don't recall ever seeing a post claiming that Elvis "rocked" hard in the 1970s.

That said, there are plenty of examples of Elvis' stage ensemble from the 1970/1971 period laying down a heavy groove -- and those infrequent moments were not intended to dominate his eclectic set list. Additionally, while he had some fine players in his band, it is probably a stretch to assert that he had "one of the best bands in the world."


Oh? Maybe I took this comment too literally in the EIC 1977 thread:
i don't care what others say elvis rocked!