Off Topic Messages

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:40 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:I'm not sure why anyone would recommend Masterpieces to a novice Bob Dylan fan when it has been out of print for years, and second-hand is really quite expensive. That's surely not the way to go if you are wanting to start to explore an artists work? Would you recommend a $70 set to someone wanting to explore Elvis's work for the first time to see if they liked it?


If one reads with care, the person plans on buying 10-15 albums, and wants to get a slew of books as well.

One might assume their budget will allow such extravagances as a copy of Masterpieces.

In fact, one may be had not for $70, but about $46 (£30.95) right now, on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bob-Dylan-Masterpieces-3CD-CD-AUS-Columbia-462448-9-/111010531269

Live and learn! ;-)


With an extra $12 in postage, that makes $58 - is there really anything on that set which is essential Dylan which is not available elsewhere on cheaper, more easily available albums that have to be imported from Australia (in the case of the ebay item). It seems like a great deal of trouble to go to for the sake of a couple of songs not available on other packages for someone starting their collection.

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:23 pm

TJ wrote:
johngael wrote:Thank you everyone for your input. Got a few discs today with a few more to come on Tuesday.



What did you go for in the end John?

So far I have Highway 61 Revisited, Blood On the Tracks, Bootleg Series Vol.5, Oh Mercy, and I just ordered Biograph for $14.00 with postage. Listened to Blood... yesterday and Highway... is my drive to work music. Enjoying everything so far!

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:36 pm

poormadpeter wrote:... is there really anything on that set which is essential Dylan which is not available elsewhere ...


As twice-noted, if you follow my superb list of suggestions, Masterpieces is the perfect compliment.

Please, pay attention. ;-)

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:37 pm

I would like to add "before the flood" to the list. This is Dylan live at his best!! Great interpretations of "knocking on heavens door", "it ain't me babe" and "ballad of a thin man". Maybe not as essential as his studio output, but a great introduction to Dylan live.

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:44 pm

Rigs wrote:I would like to add "before the flood" to the list. This is Dylan live at his best!! Great interpretations of "knocking on heavens door", "it ain't me babe" and "ballad of a thin man". Maybe not as essential as his studio output, but a great introduction to Dylan live.


Although the 1966 live set is better, I agree that Before The Flood is a fantastic live album, and essential.

I have updated my list on page 1!

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:57 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Rigs wrote:I would like to add "before the flood" to the list. This is Dylan live at his best!! Great interpretations of "knocking on heavens door", "it ain't me babe" and "ballad of a thin man". Maybe not as essential as his studio output, but a great introduction to Dylan live.


Although the 1966 live set is better, I agree that Before The Flood is a fantastic live album, and essential.

I have updated my list on page 1!


Live 66 is certainly more legendary and a must have for any serious music collector. But vocally I would say Dylan is better on before the flood, mainly because he is mindscrewing the audience in the first part of 66 show by singing his acoustic material lackluster, for lack of a better word.

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:00 pm

I'd also recommend the 2 CD set "No Direction Home" (Bootleg Series 7) and, of course, the Scorsese documentary of the same name, available on DVD.

I started my Dylan collection with "Biography".

Further down the line, you might want to consider the "Basement Tapes".

Apologies if I have duplicated any other suggestions.

Happy listening, John!

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:46 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:... is there really anything on that set which is essential Dylan which is not available elsewhere ...


As twice-noted, if you follow my superb list of suggestions, Masterpieces is the perfect compliment.

Please, pay attention. ;-)

If you don't mind paying over the odds for a couple of tracks not available elsewhere.

And who in their right mind refers to their own work as "superb?" As the proverb states, "self praise is no recommendation".

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:04 pm

Rigs wrote:Live 66 is certainly more legendary and a must have for any serious music collector.


It's legendary because it is one of the most exciting rock 'n' roll concerts ever put on recording tape!

Rigs wrote:But vocally I would say Dylan is better on before the flood, mainly because he is mindscrewing the audience in the first part of 66 show by singing his acoustic material lackluster, for lack of a better word.


I find his work on the 1966 acoustic set transcendent in almost every way.

On the other hand, his 1974 acoustic set is delivered without subtlety. His singing here is very intentional, and designed to puncture the "sainted" persona of "folk Bob."

Both tours are essential Dylan, in any case.

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:21 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Rigs wrote:Live 66 is certainly more legendary and a must have for any serious music collector.


It's legendary because it is one of the most exciting rock 'n' roll concerts ever put on recording tape!

Rigs wrote:But vocally I would say Dylan is better on before the flood, mainly because he is mindscrewing the audience in the first part of 66 show by singing his acoustic material lackluster, for lack of a better word.


I find his work on the 1966 acoustic set transcendent in almost every way.

On the other hand, his 1974 acoustic set is delivered without subtlety. His singing here is very intentional, and designed to puncture the "sainted" persona of "folk Bob."

Both tours are essential Dylan, in any case.


Agree! The 66 set of course has the coolest version of like a rolling stone, with the intro, "play it f*cking loud". This song alone made me wanna purchase the set sometime ago.

Re: Bob Dylan

Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:57 pm

Rigs wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Rigs wrote:I would like to add "before the flood" to the list. This is Dylan live at his best!! Great interpretations of "knocking on heavens door", "it ain't me babe" and "ballad of a thin man". Maybe not as essential as his studio output, but a great introduction to Dylan live.


Although the 1966 live set is better, I agree that Before The Flood is a fantastic live album, and essential.

I have updated my list on page 1!


Live 66 is certainly more legendary and a must have for any serious music collector. But vocally I would say Dylan is better on before the flood, mainly because he is mindscrewing the audience in the first part of 66 show by singing his acoustic material lackluster, for lack of a better word.


I hear you, but in the end it's also a matter of taste. For me Before The Flood is one of the most boring Dylan records, some kind of greatest hits live collection. Dylan himself did not appreciate his music on that tour either. I don't always agree with his opinions about his own work, but in this case I do. Before The Flood does not have the edge that Dylan's greatest work usually has - he plays it too safe.

Actually, Dylan has stated that he had lost touch with his own songs in 1974. He also compared himself to Elvis. According to Dylan Elvis sang That's All Right Mama in 1955 with sensitivity and power, but in 1969 [sic] it was just full-out power - and that he "fell in to that trap, too" in 1974. Also Robbie Robertson has said that the tour was not "a passionate trip" for any of them.

Plus, there are better shows from 1974 in bootlegs than the ones officially recorded in LA forum which are NOT superb.

For me 1975-76 tours are far more interesting. Live 1975 is among Dylan's greatest live performances. And this is not a unique opinion among Dylan fans. Of course every "educated" music lover loves Dylan in 1966 - just like "everybody" loves Elvis in 50s. And they are great concerts for sure, but if you find other concerts than the one released officially you may find that Dylan is sometimes a bit over-medicated during those acustic sets.

Re: Bob Dylan

Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:14 am

Rigs wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Rigs wrote:Live 66 is certainly more legendary and a must have for any serious music collector.


It's legendary because it is one of the most exciting rock 'n' roll concerts ever put on recording tape!

Rigs wrote:But vocally I would say Dylan is better on before the flood, mainly because he is mindscrewing the audience in the first part of 66 show by singing his acoustic material lackluster, for lack of a better word.


I find his work on the 1966 acoustic set transcendent in almost every way.

On the other hand, his 1974 acoustic set is delivered without subtlety. His singing here is very intentional, and designed to puncture the "sainted" persona of "folk Bob."

Both tours are essential Dylan, in any case.


Agree! The 66 set of course has the coolest version of like a rolling stone, with the intro, "play it f*cking loud". This song alone made me wanna purchase the set sometime ago.


Indeed.

"Judas!"

It is a wonderful, indelible moment in Dylan's career, and the history of the music.

Other available 1966 shows are nearly as worthy, such as the Melbourne gig on April 19. During the acoustic set Dylan says "This used to be called 'Visions Of Johanna,' now it's called 'Mother Revisited.'"

Re: Bob Dylan

Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:55 pm

Rigs wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Rigs wrote:I would like to add "before the flood" to the list. This is Dylan live at his best!! Great interpretations of "knocking on heavens door", "it ain't me babe" and "ballad of a thin man". Maybe not as essential as his studio output, but a great introduction to Dylan live.


Although the 1966 live set is better, I agree that Before The Flood is a fantastic live album, and essential.

I have updated my list on page 1!


Live 66 is certainly more legendary and a must have for any serious music collector. But vocally I would say Dylan is better on before the flood, mainly because he is mindscrewing the audience in the first part of 66 show by singing his acoustic material lackluster, for lack of a better word.

I actually find the acoustic half more exciting than the electric half. Easily my favorite version of Just Like A Woman. I agree with the doc, the acoustic half is absolutely beautiful.

Re: Bob Dylan

Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:44 am

Ordered Royal Albert Hall and will have it Friday. I can't wait to hear "You're a liar! Play F--king loud!"

Re: Bob Dylan

Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:13 am

johngael wrote:Ordered Royal Albert Hall and will have it Friday. I can't wait to hear "You're a liar! Play F--king loud!"


You may also see the legendary event, from discovered footage, in Martin Scorsese's "No Direction Home" (2005).

The DVD is highly recommended.

Re: Bob Dylan

Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:56 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
johngael wrote:Ordered Royal Albert Hall and will have it Friday. I can't wait to hear "You're a liar! Play F--king loud!"


You may also see the legendary event, from discovered footage, in Martin Scorsese's "No Direction Home" (2005).

The DVD is highly recommended.

Seconded.

This plus Chronicles - I find the de-mythologized Dylan more fascinating then the weird cryptic genius image. It's more interesting and admirable to me to see him as a fellow human who worked hard and achieved great things instead of some random genius who opened his mouth and Gates of Eden fell out.

My two favorite parts of the book were where he described in the early 60s crashing on some guys couch who had an immense library and Dylan consumed it all, giving a long list of stuff he read. Seeing him as a sponge, soaking in everything he could then spitting it out as his art as something new was great to read.

Also loved the part as a teen playing at a fair where no one paid him attn but a wrestler walked by and winked at him, and that line acknowledgment kept him going for years even though now he knows maybe he just imagined the guy winking at him. I try and remember that daily that the smallest things can mean a lot to someone who quietly needs that.

Re: Bob Dylan

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:01 am

Don't miss the movie "Don't Look Back"-
Bob's "Subterranean Homesick Blues" cue-card sequence with Alan Ginsburg lurking about is an absolute classic bit of film, and hugely influential.
There's out-takes in the deluxe edition.
Right before Dylan went electric-
http://www.amazon.com/Bob-Dylan-Dont-Lo ... +look+back

Re: Bob Dylan

Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:33 pm

I love Before the Flood. "You say you're sorry for tellin' me stories, you know I believe are TRUE! You say you got some other, other kind of lover, and yes I believe you DO!" "I long to see you in the morning LIGHT! I long to reach for you, in the NIGHT!"

Re: Bob Dylan

Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:46 am

This one's good !

phpBB [video]

Re: Bob Dylan

Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:54 pm

Lonely Summer wrote:I love Before the Flood. "You say you're sorry for tellin' me stories, you know I believe are TRUE! You say you got some other, other kind of lover, and yes I believe you DO!" "I long to see you in the morning LIGHT! I long to reach for you, in the NIGHT!"



Love the way he attacks the song. Got you hooked from there on! Lots of energy!!

Re: Bob Dylan

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:49 am

That album is just high energy from start to finish - even the short acoustic set. Love the way he attacks "It's Alright Ma". "Even the President of the United States sometimes must have to stand naked!" RRRROOOOAAAARRRRR!

Re: Bob Dylan

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:38 am

Thanks to everyone for their help! I am thoroughly enjoying the music and reading the books.

Re: Bob Dylan

Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:12 pm

johngael wrote: Can I get some recommendations for 2 or 3 essential books to read


I'm not really a Dylan expert, but I would also recommend "Bob Dylan - Performing Artist - 1960 / 1973", by Paul Williams.

This is a really wonderful book that will give you a very deep insight into Dylan's (early) music and personality. Its author is a hardcore Dylan fan and leaves no stone unturned. He analyzes every stage, album, song of Bob's early career, without doing cheap psychology games, and without drowning in excessive wordplay and pedantic stuff.

In fact, I think this book is so good that it trascends Dylan' s figure. Buy it and you won't be disappointed - and there are two more volumes by the same author on Dylan's later career, but I don't have them. I'm sure they must great too, though.

Re: Bob Dylan

Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:37 pm

Mister Moon wrote:
johngael wrote: Can I get some recommendations for 2 or 3 essential books to read


I'm not really a Dylan expert, but I would also recommend "Bob Dylan - Performing Artist - 1960 / 1973", by Paul Williams.

This is a really wonderful book that will give you a very deep insight into Dylan's (early) music and personality. Its author is a hardcore Dylan fan and leaves no stone unturned. He analyzes every stage, album, song of Bob's early career, without doing cheap psychology games, and without drowning in excessive wordplay and pedantic stuff.

In fact, I think this book is so good that it trascends Dylan' s figure. Buy it and you won't be disappointed - and there are two more volumes by the same author on Dylan's later career, but I don't have them. I'm sure they must great too, though.


I agree. Also, Bob Shelton's book is essential. There are several other ones; I would check an Amazon list. There are so many different ones. One caveat: the official lyrics books often have incorrect lyrics. You have to just listen.

And the documentary No Direction Home is absolutely essential. As well as The Other Side of the Mirror.

rjm

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Re: Bob Dylan

Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:06 pm

It's funny how things happen.

Unexpectedly, today is a Dylan day for me. Just a few hours ago, I found a sealed, brand new copy of "The Witmark Demos", the "Bootleg Series" edition with the big booklet (not the recent plastic cover reissue) for just 13€. I've yet to hear it, but I see it contains "Tomorrow Is A Long Time". And also a ton of other favorites, like "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall", "Don't Think Twice, It's All Right" and so on. I doubt the official studio versions of those latter titles can be surpassed (by Bob himself, or by anyone else). But it's always a treat to hear different renditions of classic songs.

Regarding Dylan documentaries, yes rjm, "No Direction Home" and "The Other Side Of The Mirror" are wonderful. And so is "Dont Look Back", which on its extended 2-DVD form is an absolute Dylan feast.

I went to see "No Direction Home" on the day of its premiere and was stunned. I mean, I could have stayed two or three more hours sitting there. Great stuff. However, I was a bit disappointed that for all the thousand and a half other performers that are featured in the documentary, no footage of Elvis is included. That's a very, very weak point, knowing as we do that Dylan respects Elvis very much. Perhaps it was Scorsese's choice to do so, I don't know.

Well, I guess perfection doesn't exist.