Post here your Elvis' pictures

A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:21 am

Hi:

I’m a vintage guitars collector. I find this photo in a old Guitar Magazine:

Image


The EchoSonic made by Ray Butts special for Scotty Moore.


A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History.
From 1955 to 1968 on Elvis sound.


More info here.

http://www.scottymoore.net/echosonic.html



Regards :wink:

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:42 pm

Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:45 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:19 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS



Very interesting James.

I saw the label inside the cabinet of Scotty EchoSonic amp.

The manufacturer original Tube layout configuration is change. I think Scotty replace the original tube setup for low gain 12 family tubes. 12AY7 tube have 40% gain factor, the original 12AX7 for this amp have 100% gain factor.

In my amp i make similar, i use in V1 a 5751 tube. This tube have 70% of gain factor. More clean sound, the amp break later compared if you use a 12AX7 tube.

This are very important configuration in the final guitar-amp sound.


Regards. :smt001

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:01 pm

Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS



Very interesting James.

I saw the label inside the cabinet of Scotty EchoSonic amp.

The manufacturer original Tube layout configuration is change. I think Scotty replace the original tube setup for low gain 12 family tubes. 12AY7 tube have 40% gain factor, the original 12AX7 for this amp have 100% gain factor.

In my amp i make similar, i use in V1 a 5751 tube. This tube have 70% of gain factor. More clean sound, the amp break later compared if you use a 12AX7 tube.

This are very important configuration in the final guitar-amp sound.


Regards. :smt001


Scotty said Ray was very secretive and intentionally mislabeled the charts. He used to take it back to Ray for any mods or repairs. He had Burris amps go through it before he sold it after Ray died to get it ship shape. I can pull guitars apart and put them back together all day long but I'm not that adept on amp circuitry and technology to want to even open the back of one except to replace a tube and in that case its more of what comes out goes back in. It you want to talk those kind of details you should hunt down Tim Masters.

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:45 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS



Very interesting James.

I saw the label inside the cabinet of Scotty EchoSonic amp.

The manufacturer original Tube layout configuration is change. I think Scotty replace the original tube setup for low gain 12 family tubes. 12AY7 tube have 40% gain factor, the original 12AX7 for this amp have 100% gain factor.

In my amp i make similar, i use in V1 a 5751 tube. This tube have 70% of gain factor. More clean sound, the amp break later compared if you use a 12AX7 tube.

This are very important configuration in the final guitar-amp sound.


Regards. :smt001


Scotty said Ray was very secretive and intentionally mislabeled the charts. He used to take it back to Ray for any mods or repairs. He had Burris amps go through it before he sold it after Ray died to get it ship shape. I can pull guitars apart and put them back together all day long but I'm not that adept on amp circuitry and technology to want to even open the back of one except to replace a tube and in that case its more of what comes out goes back in. It you want to talk those kind of details you should hunt down Tim Masters.



For some reason the original tube models in this Scotty amp change . I don’t know if Scotty made this or another people. Someone stripped the original tubes layout label and wrotte another family tubes equivalent which we replaced. Not speak of a circuit modification, only a different tube settings.

The label sample a custom setup for this amp, not a original manufacturer tube setup.


Image



Many guitarist don’t use the manufacturer tube setup, me for example.

Depending what kind of tube you use have a different gain factor, different sound, more hot to Rock or more sweet and quiet for blues or Jazz. Do not try to change the original for any of the other tubes on the market. These should be of the same family tube as specified by the manufacturer for the equipment.

For example, the 12AX7 can replaced for 12AY7 (how shows the Scotty amp tube label), 12AT7, 12AU7 or 5751 tube. The 12AX7 have 100% gain factor, if you play rock run well, but if you play early rockabilly or blues or more quiet music you can change for a 12AY7 or 5751 tubes (70% gain factor). More vintage clean sound and the amp break later.

Regards :smt001

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:49 pm

Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS



Very interesting James.

I saw the label inside the cabinet of Scotty EchoSonic amp.

The manufacturer original Tube layout configuration is change. I think Scotty replace the original tube setup for low gain 12 family tubes. 12AY7 tube have 40% gain factor, the original 12AX7 for this amp have 100% gain factor.

In my amp i make similar, i use in V1 a 5751 tube. This tube have 70% of gain factor. More clean sound, the amp break later compared if you use a 12AX7 tube.

This are very important configuration in the final guitar-amp sound.


Regards. :smt001


Scotty said Ray was very secretive and intentionally mislabeled the charts. He used to take it back to Ray for any mods or repairs. He had Burris amps go through it before he sold it after Ray died to get it ship shape. I can pull guitars apart and put them back together all day long but I'm not that adept on amp circuitry and technology to want to even open the back of one except to replace a tube and in that case its more of what comes out goes back in. It you want to talk those kind of details you should hunt down Tim Masters.



For some reason the original tube models in this Scotty amp change . I don’t know if Scotty made this or another people. Someone stripped the original tubes layout label and wrotte another family tubes equivalent which we replaced. Not speak of a circuit modification, only a different tube settings.

The label sample a custom setup for this amp, not a original manufacturer tube setup.


Image



Many guitarist don’t use the manufacturer tube setup, me for example.

Depending what kind of tube you use have a different gain factor, different sound, more hot to Rock or more sweet and quiet for blues or Jazz. Do not try to change the original for any of the other tubes on the market. These should be of the same family tube as specified by the manufacturer for the equipment.

For example, the 12AX7 can replaced for 12AY7 (how shows the Scotty amp tube label), 12AT7, 12AU7 or 5751 tube. The 12AX7 have 100% gain factor, if you play rock run well, but if you play early rockabilly or blues or more quiet music you can change for a 12AY7 or 5751 tubes (70% gain factor). More vintage clean sound and the amp break later.

Regards :smt001


Like I implied, Ray is the only one that worked on that amp while he was alive. If anyone changed anything it was him, including mods to labels. Scotty stopped using it before Ray died. Burris only went through it to retube it. He didn't change anything nor did Scotty.

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:11 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:
Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS



Then according to the evidence, what you say and what I see in the pictures, I think Ray may a custom tube Setting work for Scotty amp. I speak a find a sound more appropriate, or would like more.

Possibly after some tests, when they found the right sound, the label was corrected with the final tube configuration. This would comply with the new custom settings for Scotty replacement a tube or the arrival of a technical workshop.


regards



Very interesting James.

I saw the label inside the cabinet of Scotty EchoSonic amp.

The manufacturer original Tube layout configuration is change. I think Scotty replace the original tube setup for low gain 12 family tubes. 12AY7 tube have 40% gain factor, the original 12AX7 for this amp have 100% gain factor.

In my amp i make similar, i use in V1 a 5751 tube. This tube have 70% of gain factor. More clean sound, the amp break later compared if you use a 12AX7 tube.

This are very important configuration in the final guitar-amp sound.


Regards. :smt001


Scotty said Ray was very secretive and intentionally mislabeled the charts. He used to take it back to Ray for any mods or repairs. He had Burris amps go through it before he sold it after Ray died to get it ship shape. I can pull guitars apart and put them back together all day long but I'm not that adept on amp circuitry and technology to want to even open the back of one except to replace a tube and in that case its more of what comes out goes back in. It you want to talk those kind of details you should hunt down Tim Masters.



For some reason the original tube models in this Scotty amp change . I don’t know if Scotty made this or another people. Someone stripped the original tubes layout label and wrotte another family tubes equivalent which we replaced. Not speak of a circuit modification, only a different tube settings.

The label sample a custom setup for this amp, not a original manufacturer tube setup.


Image



Many guitarist don’t use the manufacturer tube setup, me for example.

Depending what kind of tube you use have a different gain factor, different sound, more hot to Rock or more sweet and quiet for blues or Jazz. Do not try to change the original for any of the other tubes on the market. These should be of the same family tube as specified by the manufacturer for the equipment.

For example, the 12AX7 can replaced for 12AY7 (how shows the Scotty amp tube label), 12AT7, 12AU7 or 5751 tube. The 12AX7 have 100% gain factor, if you play rock run well, but if you play early rockabilly or blues or more quiet music you can change for a 12AY7 or 5751 tubes (70% gain factor). More vintage clean sound and the amp break later.

Regards :smt001


Like I implied, Ray is the only one that worked on that amp while he was alive. If anyone changed anything it was him, including mods to labels. Scotty stopped using it before Ray died. Burris only went through it to retube it. He didn't change anything nor did Scotty.



Then according to the evidence, what you say and what I see in the pictures, I think Ray may a custom tube Setting work for Scotty amp. I speak a find a sound more appropriate, or would like more.

Possibly after some tests, when they found the right sound, the label was corrected with the final tube configuration. This would comply with the new custom settings for Scotty replacement a tube or the arrival of a technical workshop.


regards

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:25 pm

Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
Vintageman_42 wrote:
JamesVRoy wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Is that Scotty's autograph on the photo?


Yes. He sent that to Ray years ago. That's one of the photos he used to sell autographed at shows before we put the site up. Ray died a few years ago. I met his daughter and grandson a few times, nice people. Someone was working on a book about Ray, Dave Kyle I think but I haven't heard on the status in awhile. Tim Masters, a guy I know in Florida has a lot of Ray's original tools and equipment and builds replicas on occasion but not as a business. I've got two university speakers, one from Tim, sitting in a corner of a room that I've been threatening to build cabinets for for a few years but haven't yet. I had another but gave it to Jim Elyea at History for Hire to put in the amp they built for the CBS Elvis miniseries movie. Deke Dickerson has one the one that was given to Gretsch by Ray when they were going to build a version and then he later bought Scotty's backup echosonic. He had them at History for Hire once and they sent me a picture of the three of them together. I'll have to dig that up.

I could'nt find that pic yet but I found this one, me about 10 years ago at Scotty's
Image

OK, I found them and added them to this page. Been meaning to do that for awhile but forgot.
http://scottymoore.net/tributetoray.html#3AMPS



Then according to the evidence, what you say and what I see in the pictures, I think Ray may a custom tube Setting work for Scotty amp. I speak a find a sound more appropriate, or would like more.

Possibly after some tests, when they found the right sound, the label was corrected with the final tube configuration. This would comply with the new custom settings for Scotty replacement a tube or the arrival of a technical workshop.


regards



Very interesting James.

I saw the label inside the cabinet of Scotty EchoSonic amp.

The manufacturer original Tube layout configuration is change. I think Scotty replace the original tube setup for low gain 12 family tubes. 12AY7 tube have 40% gain factor, the original 12AX7 for this amp have 100% gain factor.

In my amp i make similar, i use in V1 a 5751 tube. This tube have 70% of gain factor. More clean sound, the amp break later compared if you use a 12AX7 tube.

This are very important configuration in the final guitar-amp sound.


Regards. :smt001


Scotty said Ray was very secretive and intentionally mislabeled the charts. He used to take it back to Ray for any mods or repairs. He had Burris amps go through it before he sold it after Ray died to get it ship shape. I can pull guitars apart and put them back together all day long but I'm not that adept on amp circuitry and technology to want to even open the back of one except to replace a tube and in that case its more of what comes out goes back in. It you want to talk those kind of details you should hunt down Tim Masters.



For some reason the original tube models in this Scotty amp change . I don’t know if Scotty made this or another people. Someone stripped the original tubes layout label and wrotte another family tubes equivalent which we replaced. Not speak of a circuit modification, only a different tube settings.

The label sample a custom setup for this amp, not a original manufacturer tube setup.


Image



Many guitarist don’t use the manufacturer tube setup, me for example.

Depending what kind of tube you use have a different gain factor, different sound, more hot to Rock or more sweet and quiet for blues or Jazz. Do not try to change the original for any of the other tubes on the market. These should be of the same family tube as specified by the manufacturer for the equipment.

For example, the 12AX7 can replaced for 12AY7 (how shows the Scotty amp tube label), 12AT7, 12AU7 or 5751 tube. The 12AX7 have 100% gain factor, if you play rock run well, but if you play early rockabilly or blues or more quiet music you can change for a 12AY7 or 5751 tubes (70% gain factor). More vintage clean sound and the amp break later.

Regards :smt001


Like I implied, Ray is the only one that worked on that amp while he was alive. If anyone changed anything it was him, including mods to labels. Scotty stopped using it before Ray died. Burris only went through it to retube it. He didn't change anything nor did Scotty.



Then according to the evidence, what you say and what I see in the pictures, I think Ray may a custom tube Setting work for Scotty amp. I speak a find a sound more appropriate, or would like more.

Possibly after some tests, when they found the right sound, the label was corrected with the final tube configuration. This would comply with the new custom settings for Scotty replacement a tube or the arrival of a technical workshop.


regards


If you check the page I wrote on the link you posted about the amp you'll notice that the amp was built in 55 and was said to be the third. Around late 56 he brought it back to Ray and he replaced the cabinet to his newer design, with new labels. He also made mods to drive two auxiliary speaker cabinets, whether this was unique just to Scotty's or mods he incorporated in later design I can't say. I don't doubt over the years Ray may have made several changes, some reflected in the labels, some not. In all he only built about 60 of the things, what info he didn't write down is now gone, or shared with his son (now also gone), Dave Kyle and possibly Tim Masters.

That picture of the label by the way is from the original cabinet that was sitting in Ray's shop since 56 when he replaced Scotty's. I don't know off hand what the newer one reads. The cabinent failed to sell a few years ago so they rebuilt it together with an amp out of a Gretsch cabinent and offered it up. I don't know who if anyone else may have changed the label in the interim or if Ray ever used it for anything else at some point either.

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:42 pm

JamesVRoy wrote:If you check the page I wrote on the link you posted about the amp you'll notice that the amp was built in 55 and was said to be the third. Around late 56 he brought it back to Ray and he replaced the cabinet to his newer design, with new labels. He also made mods to drive two auxiliary speaker cabinets, whether this was unique just to Scotty's or mods he incorporated in later design I can't say. I don't doubt over the years Ray may have made several changes, some reflected in the labels, some not. In all he only built about 60 of the things, what info he didn't write down is now gone, or shared with his son (now also gone), Dave Kyle and possibly Tim Masters.

That picture of the label by the way is from the original cabinet that was sitting in Ray's shop since 56 when he replaced Scotty's. I don't know off hand what the newer one reads. The cabinent failed to sell a few years ago so they rebuilt it together with an amp out of a Gretsch cabinent and offered it up. I don't know who if anyone else may have changed the label in the interim or if Ray ever used it for anything else at some point either.



Maybe the original cabinet amp there been reused later by Ray with a new chassis and speaker. The label was corrected the new configuration does not necessarily correspond to any configuration made especially for Scotty.

Image


Image



It’s not rare saw a guitarist has custom settings for your sound. Now whether a search and adjustment made by himself or technician maintaining their equipment.

Of all forms this amp are extremely interesting. We greatly appreciate the information you posted.


regards :smt001

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:10 pm

Vintageman_42 wrote:
Maybe the original cabinet amp there been reused later by Ray with a new chassis and speaker. The label was corrected the new configuration does not necessarily correspond to any configuration made especially for Scotty.


I was told the cabinet and speaker had been like that in Ray's shop when they found it. What Ray might have done with it in the interim is any one's guess. I don't think Ray though would've reused it to build another, but who knows? Its all speculation at this point. Check the Gretsch and amp forums, I'm sure Tim still posts. There's been quite a following that's grown since I first wrote that 10 years ago. He may have a lot more insight.

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:59 am

Thanks for the fascinating Scotty Moore/EchoSonic discussion!

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:27 pm

Great stuff!!

Re: A legendary guitar amp, a BIG piece of History (Photo)

Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:05 am

....Very nice thread,plus great info.! 8) 8)