Off Topic Messages

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:08 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Stephen Butler wrote:Ian Duncan Himmler and the Gestapo For Work & Pensions ...


The similarities in tactics are actually quite frightening: Blame a certain section of society for the mess the country is in, spread propaganda in order to turn much of the country towards that group of people, and then hit that section of society at the time when half the country believes they have what is coming to them.


Meanwhile, the bankers are pocketing their tidy bonuses as per usual, & the ultra-rich enjoy an £8,000-a-month tax cut.

But remember, "We're all in it together !"

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:23 pm

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... touch.html

A typical story of today's Britain.

Both Labour and the Tories are to blame for this fiasco.

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:37 pm

Bodie wrote:http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4753651/lithuanian-immigrant-youre-a-soft-touch.html

A typical story of today's Britain.

Both Labour and the Tories are to blame for this fiasco.


The lunacy here is that work under 16 hours seemingly doesn't count towards housing benefit. Even so, once again, the Sun has shown an exception to the majority of people claiming benefits and not the typical claimant who would simply just be getting by (at best). What's more, to say that someone with a kid and an income of £15,000 (or even £20,000) a year lives a life of luxury, is able to go on many holidays or buy designer clothes is just simply untrue. Yes, they can live relatively comfortably, but designer clothes and multiple holidays?

What The Sun article glosses over in four short lines is that she pays for the holidays and clothes with her credit cards, and not with her benefits. Funny how they don't dwell on that.

So, the Sun article emphasises a stupid, selfish woman, who is so interested in holidays and clothes that she is willing to get herself and young child in thousands of pounds of debt.

What the article doesn't emphasise is that she is the exception to the rule, that most people on benefits are struggling to pay their bills, that the vast majority of people on benefits actually work and use the benefits to top up their income, and that the vast majority of the unemployed are yearning for a job.

But hey, if you want to accept a Sun article on face value...

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:49 pm

Anyone who comes over to Britain should not be entitled to any benefits if they have not worked here.

Don't you agree?

If i went to live in another country then i wouldn't expect to live off their benefits.

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:53 pm

Bodie wrote:Anyone who comes over to Britain should not be entitled to any benefits if they have not worked here.

Don't you agree?

If i went to live in another country then i wouldn't expect to live off their benefits.


If you went to live in another country within the EU then you would expect to get the same benefits you get here. According to the EU website:

When looking for work abroad, you have the same rights as nationals of your host country with regard to:
■access to work
■support from employment services
■financial support to help you find work


Dept for work and pensions states:

The EU Regulations mean people from every country in the European Economic Area (EEA) are generally treated the same and have their benefit rights protected for as long as they are:
employed or self-employed; or
have been employed or self-employed and are getting benefit; or
are close family members of people who are or have been employed or self-employed; or
a student who is studying or receiving vocational training leading to an officially recognised qualification – in this case, only limited rights arise.

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:58 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Bodie wrote:Anyone who comes over to Britain should not be entitled to any benefits if they have not worked here.

Don't you agree?

If i went to live in another country then i wouldn't expect to live off their benefits.


If you went to live in another country within the EU then you would expect to get the same benefits you get here. According to the EU website:

When looking for work abroad, you have the same rights as nationals of your host country with regard to:
■access to work
■support from employment services
■financial support to help you find work


Dept for work and pensions states:

The EU Regulations mean people from every country in the European Economic Area (EEA) are generally treated the same and have their benefit rights protected for as long as they are:
employed or self-employed; or
have been employed or self-employed and are getting benefit; or
are close family members of people who are or have been employed or self-employed; or
a student who is studying or receiving vocational training leading to an officially recognised qualification – in this case, only limited rights arise.


Thanks for the info.

Personally, i think that is wrong, as in wrong to do.

You shouldn't be allowed to go to another country and live off their benefits.

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:35 pm

Bodie wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Bodie wrote:Anyone who comes over to Britain should not be entitled to any benefits if they have not worked here.

Don't you agree?

If i went to live in another country then i wouldn't expect to live off their benefits.


If you went to live in another country within the EU then you would expect to get the same benefits you get here. According to the EU website:

When looking for work abroad, you have the same rights as nationals of your host country with regard to:
■access to work
■support from employment services
■financial support to help you find work


Dept for work and pensions states:

The EU Regulations mean people from every country in the European Economic Area (EEA) are generally treated the same and have their benefit rights protected for as long as they are:
employed or self-employed; or
have been employed or self-employed and are getting benefit; or
are close family members of people who are or have been employed or self-employed; or
a student who is studying or receiving vocational training leading to an officially recognised qualification – in this case, only limited rights arise.


Thanks for the info.

Personally, i think that is wrong, as in wrong to do.

You shouldn't be allowed to go to another country and live off their benefits.


If it works both ways, it doesn't matter. You could stay in your own country and live off benefits if you were so inclined. But the vast majority of people who come to Britain do not live off benefits. They are just the ones that make the newspapers.

I would have thought that by 2013 we would live in a society that media savvy, that realised that whatever we get fed through newspapers, and maybe even through the BBC, is never the whole truth. The Sun doesn't sell papers by concentrating on the "norm". It doesn't sell papers by talking about the fact that the majority of people on benefits are on them for genuine reasons. What sells papers is the outlandish and the exaggerated, and the abnormal. This is fine if people realise what they are reading. But people read that story in the Sun and (1) assume it is true, and (2) assume that this is the case for thousands upon thousands of others. Which is ridiculous.

Perhaps the most scary thing here is that the government are happy to tie their policies and propaganda in with this. They are happy to promote the idea that those on benefits are having it easy.

But it's rubbish. If I became unemployed tomorrow, I would get approximately £200 a week to cover my living expenses, my rent and my council tax. Of that, £71 would actually arrive in my pocket in cash, as the rest would go automatically to landlords and to the council. Out of £71 a week, gas, electric, telephone and food need to be paid for - and if I was wanting any chance of getting a job, broadband too. That is the norm for people on benefits - not those managing £15,000 a year.

But everyone is very happy to talk about the woman in the Sun and not the guy with £71 in his pocket, because it either makes them feel better ("it doesn't matter their benefits will fall in real terms, because they have enough money anywa and don't want to work"), or makes them look better (because they are politicians doing the cutting).

People are all too happy to moan and groan about those living comfortably on benefits, but the real reason this country is in this mess is because of politicians and bankers. It isn't due to a very small percentage of people on benefits playing the system. The amount of money involved there is peanuts - and yet it is great for politicians as they can make scapegoats out of the worst off, and hold up pictures of the woman in The Sun and make the country believe she is representative of someone on benefits.

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:10 pm

ColinB wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:
Stephen Butler wrote:Ian Duncan Himmler and the Gestapo For Work & Pensions ...


The similarities in tactics are actually quite frightening: Blame a certain section of society for the mess the country is in, spread propaganda in order to turn much of the country towards that group of people, and then hit that section of society at the time when half the country believes they have what is coming to them.


Meanwhile, the bankers are pocketing their tidy bonuses as per usual, & the ultra-rich enjoy an £8,000-a-month tax cut.

But remember, "We're all in it together !"


spot on......

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:14 pm

poormadpeter wrote:... The Sun doesn't sell papers by concentrating on the "norm". It doesn't sell papers by talking about the fact that the majority of people on benefits are on them for genuine reasons. What sells papers is the outlandish and the exaggerated, and the abnormal. This is fine if people realise what they are reading. But people read that story in the Sun and (1) assume it is true, and (2) assume that this is the case for thousands upon thousands of others. Which is ridiculous...


The Murdoch press, which includes The Sun, supports the politics of Rupert Murdoch, while rubbishing everything else.

Not a good source to read for remotely typical cases..............

Re: David Cameron to cut child benefit.

Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:39 am

ColinB wrote:
Meanwhile, the bankers are pocketing their tidy bonuses as per usual, & the ultra-rich enjoy an £8,000-a-month tax cut.

But remember, "We're all in it together !"



Sounds like our UK politicians are getting their corrupt ideas from the U.S. government's way of doing things. It seems like a trendy thing worldwide for the rich to benefit in the end.