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Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:53 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
vbgt wrote:Yep, and Lennon and the Beatles should've kept recording songs like "She Loves You', but oh wait, they didn't ,did they? Yet Elvis should've stuck with the "SUn" type songs? Totally unfair.

And totally incorrect.

The Beatles continued to record after "She Loves You" with energy, creativity and purpose. When they realized after completing their second movie "Help!" that they were bored -- Lennon said they felt like extras in their own movie -- they put an end to their cinema interests, despite manager Brian Epstein's desire to make more such films, and despite the massive profits of box office and soundtracks.

What John correctly points out is not just that "Elvis the rocker" disappeared after the army, but Elvis the creative artist, as evidenced by his lost years in Hollywood. John even had the guts to say as much to Elvis when they met in August 1965.

Why are these points so difficult to understand?


Is it a mere coincidence that Elvis started his way back to be a valid artist as of 1966 or did this meeting have anything to do with it?

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:06 pm

epf wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
vbgt wrote:Yep, and Lennon and the Beatles should've kept recording songs like "She Loves You', but oh wait, they didn't ,did they? Yet Elvis should've stuck with the "SUn" type songs? Totally unfair.

And totally incorrect.

The Beatles continued to record after "She Loves You" with energy, creativity and purpose. When they realized after completing their second movie "Help!" that they were bored -- Lennon said they felt like extras in their own movie -- they put an end to their cinema interests, despite manager Brian Epstein's desire to make more such films, and despite the massive profits of box office and soundtracks.

What John correctly points out is not just that "Elvis the rocker" disappeared after the army, but Elvis the creative artist, as evidenced by his lost years in Hollywood. John even had the guts to say as much to Elvis when they met in August 1965.

Why are these points so difficult to understand?


Is it a mere coincidence that Elvis started his way back to be a valid artist as of 1966 or did this meeting have anything to do with it?

Elvis clearly suspected he was selling out himself, his talent, and his audience. Once someone like Lennon confirmed the theory at a personal meeting, you can bet Elvis took it to heart.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:39 pm

vbgt wrote:
DEH wrote:People like Lennon didn't understand Elvis and did not want to him to change. Even though john did not want to stay the same as he was during his beatle years. It's hypocritical. Elvis matured as a artist. He ventured outside of Rock n roll and people didn't like that. Although Elvis himself liked it.


Yep, and Lennon and the Beatles should've kept recording songs like "She Loves You', but oh wait, they didn't ,did they? Yet Elvis should've stuck with the "SUn" type songs? Totally unfair.


I try to stop commenting on this thread and then comments like this pull me back in. Once again...look at the clip. John Lennon states that Elvis did make some good music after the army, even referring to the comeback. Lennon's comments are more related to the garbage, and I do mean garbage that was released on movie soundtracks. Elvis himself was not proud of this music and felt that his movie career deserved much better. If he sat down with Lennon in this interview, he would wholeheartedly agree.

I read an interview with Lennon that was published in Rolling Stone a month after his death (Lennon's death) and he says that "Elvis was it" and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. They (the Beatles) wanted to be bigger than Elvis because "he was the biggest". There was nothing else bigger that they could aspire to.

This argument will go round and round in circles because it is on an Elvis message board. Once again, appreciate what we do have. I'm going to listen to some Jerry Lee Lewis, he was the best there ever was... :wink:

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:13 pm

Lennon was a true Elvis's fan. But he was also critical and he was right. He didn't like "Kiss Me Quick" single (from 1964) at all. So he didn't like what Elvis's music became, in the middle 60's. John Lennon with Paul Mc Cartney and in a lesser extent Jagger and Richards are the most prolific composers and singers of the 20-th century so their opinions are hard to ignore.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:10 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:Lennon was a true Elvis's fan. But he was also critical and he was right. He didn't like "Kiss Me Quick" single (from 1964) at all. So he didn't like what Elvis's music became, in the middle 60's. John Lennon with Paul Mc Cartney and in a lesser extent Jagger and Richards are the most prolific composers and singers of the 20-th century so their opinions are hard to ignore.


Sadly few people remember good comments... they are met with suspiscion and doubt which is why everyone has to go digging through the internet to find and quote them. Talking there about The Beatles. If John wanted to criticise Elvis he didn't have to do it via the media. Poor form.
The opinions of Ayman al-Zawahiri are hard to ignore and although that that doesn't mean we should all adopt them, the many that do are simply adding weight to a flawed belief system. If Lennon had been at Elvis' USS Arizona fundraiser in 1961 would he still have made the Army comment? What was so special about his opinion that he wanted so many to embrace it? Surely he must have known they would. Maybe, like Elvis he was quite a childish man but while Elvis played with fireworks Johns fireworks came out of his mouth.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:33 pm

tcb4 wrote:hello

interesting interview
i guess it was made by french tv

http://www.ina.fr/video/I10278324/john- ... ck.fr.html

Not seen this before , thanks for posting.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:24 pm

What a lot of people miss from John Lennon is his caustic/sarcastic tone. Lennon's comment regarding Elvis dying in the army has a ring of truth to the uninitiated and a great soundbite which has since gained notoriety. By Lennon's own yardstick he died in 1971 :smt002

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:04 pm

Matt Ashton wrote:What a lot of people miss from John Lennon is his caustic/sarcastic tone. Lennon's comment regarding Elvis dying in the army has a ring of truth to the uninitiated and a great soundbite which has since gained notoriety. By Lennon's own yardstick he died in 1971 :smt002


Did he join the army in 1971?

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:11 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Matt Ashton wrote:What a lot of people miss from John Lennon is his caustic/sarcastic tone. Lennon's comment regarding Elvis dying in the army has a ring of truth to the uninitiated and a great soundbite which has since gained notoriety. By Lennon's own yardstick he died in 1971 :smt002


Did he join the army in 1971?


No, his music was just sh*t after 1971 :roll:

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:13 am

Matt Ashton wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Matt Ashton wrote:What a lot of people miss from John Lennon is his caustic/sarcastic tone. Lennon's comment regarding Elvis dying in the army has a ring of truth to the uninitiated and a great soundbite which has since gained notoriety. By Lennon's own yardstick he died in 1971 :smt002


Did he join the army in 1971?


No, his music was just sh*t after 1971 :roll:

Lennon's or Elvis'?

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:20 am

elvis-fan wrote:
Matt Ashton wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Matt Ashton wrote:What a lot of people miss from John Lennon is his caustic/sarcastic tone. Lennon's comment regarding Elvis dying in the army has a ring of truth to the uninitiated and a great soundbite which has since gained notoriety. By Lennon's own yardstick he died in 1971 :smt002


Did he join the army in 1971?


No, his music was just sh*t after 1971 :roll:

Lennon's or Elvis'?



I would think he means Elvis. I can count on my hands the number of outstanding (not just good) tracks Elvis recorded after 1971. Most of it was MOR or country rubbish and covers of bad songs.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:30 am

What Lennon said to Elvis personaly on the night of August 27 1965 must had been a wake up call for Presley. Maybe if he knew how the quality songs Elvis just recorded on the Paradise, Hawaian Style weeks before he could be more harsh but true on his feelings. To John, Elvis became a sad joke of Hollywood and this is real. Tragic for us, the hardcore fans, but real.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:36 am

jurasic1968 wrote:To John, Elvis became a sad joke of Hollywood and this is real. Tragic for us, the hardcore fans, but real.

Unless you knew John Lennon personally and know something we don't, I would strongly disagree with this statement. While John didn't like Elvis' music through most of the 60's and perhaps didn't agree with the direction he had gone with his career, I seriously doubt he looked upon his idol as a "joke".

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:45 am

O.K. I am sorry for this harsh comment. But if John Lennon had listen to PHS soundtrack I don't think he liked Elvis no more.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:49 am

I doubt he ever thought of Elvis as a joke also, but I am sure he was extremely disappointed at what happned to his music during the 60's. He supposedly asked Elvis why doesnt he record more good rock and roll anymore when they met. Elvis evasive as ever, said something like Im thinking of doing that just for kicks. Lennon answered, Good then I'll buy that one. Without being harsh as Lennon could sometimes be, thats says it all doesnt it?

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:51 am

John Lennon was right.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:54 am

Lonely Summer wrote:
robbie wrote:A milder yes but he still had it, He knew the way he sould go but mangement thought they knew better sell sell sell profit, we know how this got to him in the 60s but when given the chance to be himself 68 he was as good as ever

Yep. Dig that r-rated (original lyrics) version of "One Night" at the Hawaii benefit. Castrated? I don't think so!


The "castrated" remark is a totally ridiculous and ignorant comment! I love John Lennon, but I don't like comments like that!! 8)

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:04 am

elvis-fan wrote:
Matt Ashton wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
Matt Ashton wrote:What a lot of people miss from John Lennon is his caustic/sarcastic tone. Lennon's comment regarding Elvis dying in the army has a ring of truth to the uninitiated and a great soundbite which has since gained notoriety. By Lennon's own yardstick he died in 1971 :smt002


Did he join the army in 1971?


No, his music was just sh*t after 1971 :roll:

Lennon's or Elvis'?


I actually meant Lennon :o after 'Imagine', 'Happy Xmas (War Is Over)', 'Jealous Guy' & possibly 'Woman' the rest is either crappy or sentimental pap that wasn't earth shattering. Elvis' last seven years of material is far superior IMO

The material Lennon & McCartney did together is class. To be honest I don't get the whole thing with Lennon, he seems to have done very little of significance from 1971 and yet he is heralded as some sort of genius peace guru. Yes he had opinions, but they are like arseholes, everybody has got one. Lennon spent much of the 70's drunk & stoned but managed to mold a cultural Image based on his indifference to authority. Lennon came from England and basically stuck two fingers up to the USA by protesting against the war in Vietnam, It's easy to have principles and protest when your a self important millionaire. Elvis kept his political opinions to himself.

So why Is Lennon's opinion of Elvis so important? Not because of his 70's output because he was guilty of the same thing Elvis had done in the 60's! Had John not been gunned down in 1980 the chances are that the 'Double Fantasy' album would have gone the same way as the 70's albums had gone, popular but not outstanding. So based on the 60's pop invasion Lennon is given a voice from which to judge Elvis! Kettle, pot and black spring to mind.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:08 am

I am only interested about Lennon musical views (including Elvis), not others.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:48 am

Lennon post-71: Sometime in New York City - John and Yoko's radical political album; sold poorly in its day, and a big drop off musically and lyrically from Imagine; Mind Games - back on track, solid effort, although the only track that anyone seems to remember now is the title cut; Walls and Bridges - I think this one is underrated, and it was a #1 album; also produced his first #1 single, Whatever Gets You Through the Night; Rock 'N' Roll - hard to beat John Lennon singing the rock 'n' roll classics of the 50's. And that's it, until Double Fantasy - which IMHO has always felt like half of a good Lennon album. No, I'm not a big fan of Yoko.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:36 am

Lennon is correct that Elvis was a changed man after the army and he was not changed for the best. Had the army not drafted Elvis, some things would have been different for a long time.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:21 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
brian wrote:Lennon stopped liking Elvis pretty early on judging by his comments on Juke box jury in 1963.
He said he didn't like Elvis anymore and dissed ''The devil in disguise''.

This is incorrect.

When John said that he was being facetious, not literal.

But, of course, Elvis' output after July 1963 probably didn't do much for John, like millions of other Presley fans around the world not thrilled by crappy movie fodder.

Song heard: Devil In Disguise - Elvis Presley

JOHN: "Well, you know, I used to go mad on Elvis, like all the groups, but not now. I don't like this. And I hate songs with 'walk' and 'talk' in it -- you know, those lyrics. She walks, she talks. I don't like that. And I don't like the double beat: doom-cha doom-cha, that bit. It's awful. (pause) Poor ol' Elvis."

(laughter)

BRUCE PROCHNIK: "Your heart bleeds for him."

JOHN: "Well, I've got all his early records and I keep playing them. He mustn't make another like this. But somebody said today he sounds like Bing Crosby now, and he does."

(laughter)

JOHN: "There'll be people writing in now. I know what they're saying (comically in a low, slow voice) 'What d'ya mean!?'"

(laughter)

JOHN: "I don't like him anymore."

KATIE BOYLE: "If he did sound like Bing Crosby, would it be bad?"

JOHN: "Well, for Elvis... yes."

(laughter)

(John votes by holding up the MISS card)


http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1963.0622.jukebox.jury.john.lennon.html




But, of course, Elvis' output after July 1963 probably didn't do much for John, like millions of other Presley fans around the world not thrilled by crappy movie fodder.

For "crappy" movie fodder, it seems to me that it was rather successful, and a few people rather liked it! 8)

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:28 pm

Funny, I thought John lost his bollocks when he got together with Yoko. To be more precise, that she cut them off and carried them around with her in her purse. In a different way than he meant it about Elvis of course.

I kid above, but I actually really like John and am a big fan of The Beatles. I have all of their albums (including all of the Anthology and Live at the BBC stuff), all of John's albums, a lot of Paul's albums and a hand full of George's albums (sorry Ringo). I do prefer the Stones however.

Everyone here knows the post army story about Elvis. Yes, he did change. John didn't really elaborate enough for me to say I totally agree with his sentiments however. One thing that's for sure is he never lost his talent and it was on full display quite a lot from 1960 onwards if you really look at it. Sure, it could have been on display a lot more if not for the garbage movies of the 60's (not that they were all garbage) and the drug abuse and deep depression of the 70's, but hey, nobody's perfect. Certainly not any of us, and certainly not John Lennon. I could probably find as many gems if not more in Elvis' post 50's work as I could in The Beatles whole catalogue, and there really aren't that many Beatles songs I don't like. No, maybe not "world changers" like Elvis' 50's output or the Beatles relatively short run, but songs I love nonetheless. Not that I would even bother to find out if I could do that, because I don't care to or even see the point in comparing them.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:49 pm

Deke Rivers II wrote:Lennon is correct that Elvis was a changed man after the army and he was not changed for the best. Had the army not drafted Elvis, some things would have been different for a long time.

I agree that Elvis was a changed man after his stint in Germany... but Elvis Is Back is a collection of some of Elvis' finest recordings... along with some of his 1961 recordings... so I can't say that the change was better or worse, but there was a change.

Re: Video ; in 1975, Lennon talked about elvis

Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:57 pm

elvis-fan wrote:
Deke Rivers II wrote:Lennon is correct that Elvis was a changed man after the army and he was not changed for the best. Had the army not drafted Elvis, some things would have been different for a long time.

I agree that Elvis was a changed man after his stint in Germany... but Elvis Is Back is a collection of some of Elvis' finest recordings... along with some of his 1961 recordings... so I can't say that the change was better or worse, but there was a change.


True , but after 1961, Gene Vincent was releasing better albums than Elvis was. He still cared about the music he was singing.