Off Topic Messages

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:20 am

poormadpeter wrote:It needs to be remembered that the staff are only doing their job


I know,that's why I slightly regret it.It's not the first time I've been done.When Scottish Power went down my extended warranty on my telly was null and void and guess what.........

Re: HMV website; gone forever?

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:36 am

Rob wrote:Are you guys happy now?!


The thing is Rob,he's right !

norrie

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:40 am

HMV are honouring warrantys on their technology goods, which I guess is something. But this has happened time and again (I had the same issue at Zavvi when that went), and quite why there isn't legislation to protect consumers I don't know.

I was reading yesterday about HMV Canada, and how that was taken over and is now turning a nice profit by selling just CDs and DVDs. If HMV survives, a back to basics approach is certainly needed. As one DJ said today, what's the point in having a reggae section if it's so small that anyone who likes reggae already have everything you stock. The same can be said across the board. Too much space given over to desparate ideas when a wider and more intelligent range of music was probably the way to go.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:50 am

I agree,stop selling games,cheap books,MP3 players etc and concentrate on being a serious music and film store.They have to sell music/films that you can't get from TESCO,ASDA etc.
One of the problems though is just about any popular film is on sale for £3.00 in under a year.

norrie

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:24 am

Yes, but I don't think HMV can compete now with chart/popular material in that sense, so the £3 isn't a problem. They should be appealing to those who can't find what they want in Tescos - back catalogue, specialist music, specialist film (world cinema is normally no cheaper on amazon, for example). They need to get the niche back of appealing to discerning music-lovers as well catering to current charts. When the store opened in my city about 20 years ago, the specialist music racks were filled with imports from america and australia, for example. There's none of that now. But music lovers/collectors will rarely go in a shop and buy nothing providing there is something aimed at them. It's just the way we are made. But sadly HMV has forgotten to cater to us.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:46 am

I agree with what you said poormadpeter and in an ideal world it would work but the problem is large stores that did cater for niche markets have already went belly up like Borders and Tower records.Tower records in particular was a store I would get on the train for on a day off as they had a country section and a rock n roll section that was bigger than anything HMV or Virgin offered (even the larger big city stores)
Maybe we just have to come to terms that specialist and non chart music at a high street level in the UK is beyond recovery and Amazon etc is the only way to obtain non chart/specialist music and movies although my hope is that there is room for one at least.

norrie

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:53 am

norrie wrote:I agree with what you said poormadpeter and in an ideal world it would work but the problem is large stores that did cater for niche markets have already went belly up like Borders and Tower records.Tower records in particular was a store I would get on the train for on a day off as they had a country section and a rock n roll section that was bigger than anything HMV or Virgin offered (even the larger big city stores)
Maybe we just have to come to terms that specialist and non chart music at a high street level in the UK is beyond recovery and Amazon etc is the only way to obtain non chart/specialist music and movies although my hope is that there is room for one at least.

norrie


I don't know. The marketplace was different when they went out of business. Not only was the digital onslaught taking place, but there were four or five high street names fighting for a dwindling market (and I found Tower more expensive than HMV ever was!). Now there's only HMV left, and so they should be making a go the high street side of things now they are without the competition.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:50 am

Another problem recently with HMV is even when they do get product I want it's weeks too late.Prime example being Prince From Another Planet.I fully expected it to be in my local HMV store on day of release but it wasn't there.The Legacy one was strangely enough but I ended up having to order from Amazon.Two weeks later it was available in my local store.Same with other recent purchases.Ryan Bingham's latest who they have supplied on time before took a month to appear after I had purchased it from Amazon again.That's another reason why so many go online to purchase CD's.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:58 am

norrie wrote:Another problem recently with HMV is even when they do get product I want it's weeks too late.Prime example being Prince From Another Planet.I fully expected it to be in my local HMV store on day of release but it wasn't there.The Legacy one was strangely enough but I ended up having to order from Amazon.Two weeks later it was available in my local store.Same with other recent purchases.Ryan Bingham's latest who they have supplied on time before took a month to appear after I had purchased it from Amazon again.That's another reason why so many go online to purchase CD's.


i don't have that problem at my store in Norwich, although I rarely buy things on date of release - but Prince was available on the day of release and the same price as Amazon at that time.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:23 am

Oh no ,I live in more backwater town than Norwich.Send Alan Partridge up here to our radio station!

norrie

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:44 pm

Too bad, I get all my cds from HMV in Hongkong!

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:09 pm

norrie wrote:
Yep,tried to spend it this morning only to be told rather abruptly that "were not taking vouchers" before I even got to the counter."But you owe me £20 worth of goods that someone else has already paid for" I replied."I owe you nothing" I slightly regret my backchat as I stormed off.

norrie


Somebody in Ireland did a bit more than "backchat" them when they refused his voucher. :lol:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news ... 54747.html

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:02 pm

The Blockbuster DVD rental chain has also gone into administration, it's been announced. That's one more plastic card I can cut up and throw away.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:17 pm

Yes, it's funny how the government stays quiet when 12000 retails jobs are lost in a matter of weeks, most affecting the young as well.

As for HMV, I went in there and was surprised to find the new Duke Ellington boxed set, and £2 cheaper than Amazon (before the discount). I also picked up a set of Nielsen symphonies (due to the 25% off), but checking on amazon, HMVs original price of £13 was just 23p more than amazon. Likewise, the jazz CD I bought (Teddi King) was literally the same price as amazon prior to the 25% off. While some of HMVs prices are higher than online, this has been exaggerated to ridiculous amounts in recent months.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:16 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
Bodie wrote:More job losses.

The internet and computer age have lost thousands of jobs and its going to get worse. :cry:


HMV hasn't failed because of the internet and the computer age, but due to some bad management decisions that have come back to haunt them, and then a failure to confront its problems before it was too late. Their website is a shambles compared to most online retailers, with not enough categories to browse through and genres lumped together making that browsing experience a chore. In shops, they should have stuck to what they were good at - CDs and DVDs - because, by giving half the floorspace to other goods, there wasn't enough variety of stock to lure the pockets of browsers. In other words, a lack of common sense has killed HMV. Possibly.


Common sense tells us that the computer and internet age has ruined record shops like HMV and has got nothing to do with bad management.

The majority of music is now downloaded or bought online where years before downloading music was unheard of and the only way to get music was mostly though through Cd/Records.
Videos/DVDs are now mostly bought online where years ago you had to rely on shops like HMV to get them.

We now have heard today that the film rental chain Blockbuster are now in the hands of administrators with the possible loss of over 4000 jobs after struggling against online competitors.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:32 pm

The failure of Blockbusters is more straightforward - now everyone has multi-channel TV, Lovefilm is not only more convenient but considerably cheaper as well, plus there is streaming to your computer (or TV if you're clever), people download illegally a film they want to watch but dont want to keep.

HMV failure is bad management - and most analysts interviewed over the last few days have also said the same. Not only was the store unable to deliver enough range of goods to people who already have sizeable collections because the floorspace was taken up by other crap, but their website is ridiculously unwieldly and almost impossible to navigate, and they hardly attempted to enter the digital market until other companies had the monopoly. Clear away the T-shirts, headphones, gadgets and books from the shop floor and you have more room with which to appeal to actual music and film lovers, and redesign the webpage so it becomes remotely pleasurable to browse through and you have a decent business.

If no-one buys their music in stores these days, why did so many people moan on here last year when Prince came out saying they couldn't find a copy in their local store? Admittedly, few people probably buy chart music in shops, which is the very reason why HMV could and should make targets of people who buy every other genre.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:17 pm

poormadpeter wrote:The failure of Blockbusters is more straightforward - now everyone has multi-channel TV, Lovefilm is not only more convenient but considerably cheaper as well, plus there is streaming to your computer (or TV if you're clever), people download illegally a film they want to watch but dont want to keep.

HMV failure is bad management - and most analysts interviewed over the last few days have also said the same. Not only was the store unable to deliver enough range of goods to people who already have sizeable collections because the floorspace was taken up by other crap, but their website is ridiculously unwieldly and almost impossible to navigate, and they hardly attempted to enter the digital market until other companies had the monopoly. Clear away the T-shirts, headphones, gadgets and books from the shop floor and you have more room with which to appeal to actual music and film lovers, and redesign the webpage so it becomes remotely pleasurable to browse through and you have a decent business.

If no-one buys their music in stores these days, why did so many people moan on here last year when Prince came out saying they couldn't find a copy in their local store? Admittedly, few people probably buy chart music in shops, which is the very reason why HMV could and should make targets of people who buy every other genre.


Its normally the big bosses of these companies who are the ones gaining anything out of it, where the workers all end up losing their jobs.
Downsizing their shops would be a good idea.
Sounds like HMV were trying to compete in other ways by selling other items in their shops and its backfired.

I quite enjoyed going up London and trawling through the music shops like HMV, Virgin, Tower Records but sadly they all seem to be going. :(

Re: HMV - Sad News

Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:25 pm

I'm giving it a year, two years tops, before Waterstones booksellers goes the same way. You only have to look at the Elvis scene to see what is happening - more Elvis books than ever are being published, but they're all coming from private presses and are being sold almost exclusively by mail order. In the world of fiction and popular biography, the supermarkets are knocking out the top hardback titles at under half price, while paperbacks are being dumped in Two-for-seven-quid offers. Waterstones were on the verge of going under some time ago and there was talk of HMV - oh, the irony - buying them out. I don't know what happened in the end, but they must be living from day to day now.

I bought an e-reader a few weeks ago - I know, I know, I'm helping bring about their demise - and where did I get it? Waterstones. So Waterstones are selling machines which allow customers to go home and buy books electronically (from Amazon! The ironies just keep piling up) thus removing the need to go back into the shop from which they bought it.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:39 pm

HMV bought Waterstones out years ago and then sold it again last year or the year before. Once again the assumption here is that people only ever read the top ten books. As with CDs and DVDs there is much pleasure to be had from buying physical product, flicking through the pages to see what you're getting for your money. Waterstones caters for this better than HMV - its stores caters more for the discerning buyer than the John Grisham lover and generally have the wide range of stock for all tastes and requirements than HMV does in its equivalent area.

Back in 2010 just before HMV sold it, waterstones stopped central ordering for its stores and allowed individual store managers to fill its shelves instead - something HMV should have done for its own stores. Last year, Waterstones made a deal with Amazon to sell Kindle and Kindle products in store and online. As far as I'm aware profits are falling, but at least there are still profits.

People will always want books in the same way that people will always want physical Cds and DVDs, but the issue is stocking the right ones and appealing to the right people.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:13 am

poormadpeter wrote:While some of HMVs prices are higher than online, this has been exaggerated to ridiculous amounts in recent months.

It's been a few years since HMV was a local to me (Brighton, occasionally Oxford Street) but the last time I visited the UK and wandered into one it was the same as a couple of years prior - small selection and yes, generally prices reduced. But in its heyday of large floorspace given to thousands and thousands of CD titles across many genres HMV - especially on their imports - were extraordinarily expensive such that I would walk in, discover an interesting title, and then go buy it somewhere else. I have fond memories of wandering around Croydon, visiting HMV, Virgin, Beanos and coming away with some great titles - but rarely using my cash in HMV. If they are competitive now it's because they been forced into submission.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:49 pm

Bad management?

So that's why record stores are disappearing all over the world

Re: HMV - Sad News

Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:35 am

KiwiAlan wrote:Bad management?

So that's why record stores are disappearing all over the world


It's quite clear that the internet has an impact. But it is bad management at the heart of HMVs problem. They have no competition on the high street now, and should be able to make a go of it. But they no longer appeal to music fans, giving too much shop floor to T-shirts, gadgets etc, and their website sucks. They refused to plunge into the digital age. That is a management decision. nothing more, nothing less.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:11 pm

HMV have announced that they are now honouring vouchers. Anyone want to take bets on how long it will be before the, "I had some vouchers, but I threw them in the bin thinking they were worthless," stories begin?

Re: HMV - Sad News

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:17 pm

I agree that the website could have been much better, but I'm not sure if the niche market approach would have worked either, particularly in the smaller stores. My local HMV stocks chart albums and mainly classic titles that are often sold discounted.

For example you could buy "Pet Sounds" or "What's Going On" quite cheaply, but if you wanted to dig a little deeper into the respective artist's back catalogue you would struggle. There used to be another CD store in the local shopping centre that carried a lot of imported and more obscure titles. I enjoyed shopping there, and I was able to pick up albums by the likes of Gene Clark and Gram Parsons, that I hadn't seen in the local HMV. They also had recommended albums, and the whole approach was much more user friendly. You could educate yourself, take a chance on something that you wouldn't normally buy, and discover some great music that way.

However, this shop still closed down, and it makes you wonder how many real CD collectors are really left. Young people seem to prefer individual tracks over complete albums, many to choose to download illegally, and the whole process of how music is acquired, stored and enjoyed has changed significantly over the last few years.

I still read music magazines, and I always enjoyed reading about what influenced a certain artist, and checking out those recordings too, but the trend now seems to to be downloading an individual track, and playing it on shuffle with a bunch of other unrelated songs.

Of course this doesn't apply to everyone. There's the older music collectors that favour physical product, and the more traditional approach, and I do know some younger people that like to buy CD's and build up collections by different artists. Whether there are enough of us left to keep a large chain like HMV open, regardless of their marketing strategies is questionable though.

Re: HMV - Sad News

Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:38 pm

poormadpeter wrote:
KiwiAlan wrote:Bad management?

So that's why record stores are disappearing all over the world


It's quite clear that the internet has an impact. But it is bad management at the heart of HMVs problem. They have no competition on the high street now, and should be able to make a go of it. But they no longer appeal to music fans, giving too much shop floor to T-shirts, gadgets etc, and their website sucks. They refused to plunge into the digital age. That is a management decision. nothing more, nothing less.


If they plunged into the digital age, there wouldn't be any need to have the shops.

Most orders are being taken online.

Its like most retail shops that are closing down, they just can't compete with online sales.

That was the reason the Elvis Shop in London had to close, it was costing Chris Giles thousands a year to keep it open and most of his sales were online.

Its like the milkman years ago, there were loads of them driving round areas delivering milk, then when the big supermarkets were selling milk cheaper than they were, to survive the milkmen/women were selling bread, eggs etc just to survive.
Now there is hardly any milk floats on the roads.