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Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:43 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Huh? Stewart was the second coming of Sam Cooke --


never liked him much because i always felt he had stolen that voice.
of course many black singers imitated sam cooke as well, but stewart made a career out of it.

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:47 pm

michael grasberger wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Huh? Stewart was the second coming of Sam Cooke --


never liked him much because i always felt he had stolen that voice.
of course many black singers imitated sam cooke as well, but stewart made a career out of it.


Stewart has always acknowledged his deep debt to Sam Cooke.

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:52 pm

LOL Just found this 1969 outtake uploaded under the Elston Gunn alias. Presumably there's an earlier studio version of this -


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Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:55 pm

This one from 1978 is even better (also under Elston Gunn alias) -


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Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:00 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:Stewart has always acknowledged his deep debt to Sam Cooke.


sure, i'm not daying he's a bad guy or something. judging from what i hear about his recent autobiography he possesses a healthy amount of self-irony but still...what leaves me a bit uncomfortable: that voice wasn't his own so what exactly is his contribution?
(similar thing with mick jagger and don covay but i'm afraid i'm leading this thread completely astray.)

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:31 am

Robt wrote:LOL Just found this 1969 outtake uploaded under the Elston Gunn alias. Presumably there's an earlier studio version of this -


there was only a demo recording in 1962 and the live version from 63 that appeared on "more bob dylan greatest hits". the witmark demo from 1962 was odetta's source i guess.
imo dylan never could do the song justice in the studio but there were some great live performances on the never ending tour around 1999/2000. can't find any of those on youtube but those interested might want to check out this cd for example:
http://bobsboots.com/CDs/cd-s77.html

and here's a real nice version from 1987:

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Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:33 am

michael grasberger wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Stewart has always acknowledged his deep debt to Sam Cooke.


sure, i'm not daying he's a bad guy or something. judging from what i hear about his recent autobiography he possesses a healthy amount of self-irony but still...what leaves me a bit uncomfortable: that voice wasn't his own so what exactly is his contribution?
(similar thing with mick jagger and don covay but i'm afraid i'm leading this thread completely astray.)


Not one complains about Elvis sounding like Clyde McPhatter or Jake Hess. It's not just the voice, but what you do with it.

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:30 am

michael grasberger wrote:
Robt wrote:LOL Just found this 1969 outtake uploaded under the Elston Gunn alias. Presumably there's an earlier studio version of this -


there was only a demo recording in 1962 and the live version from 63 that appeared on "more bob dylan greatest hits". the witmark demo from 1962 was odetta's source i guess.
imo dylan never could do the song justice in the studio but there were some great live performances on the never ending tour around 1999/2000. can't find any of those on youtube but those interested might want to check out this cd for example:
http://bobsboots.com/CDs/cd-s77.html

and here's a real nice version from 1987:

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Thanks mate. I guessed that there would be an earlier version. Is the 1963 version done differently than the 1969 outtake ?
I'm someone whose not gotten into Dylan in a big way but every now and then, do check out rare stuff of his on facilities like You Tube. There's a cool live version of Tomorrow is a long time that came out on the Masterworks triple CD but I could not find on YT.

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:44 am

Found it !!! And what an intriguing piece it is to listen to. Shame Bobster did not go on to cut a master of it using the same basic arrangement. Seems that dedicated Bob Dylan fans are posting loads of rare songs on You Tube under the allias of Elston Gunn. Where did that come from ?


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Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:41 am

michael grasberger wrote:there was only a demo recording in 1962 and the live version from 63 that appeared on "more bob dylan greatest hits". the witmark demo from 1962 was odetta's source i guess.


FECC's George Smith makes some neat observations about these official Columbia renditions.

George Smith wrote:"Regarding "Tomorrow Is A Long Time", Dylan's live take is so "hear-a-pin-drop" perfect that I can't imagine a studio or demo take improving on it at all.

The early 70s unreleased take is a simply splendid demonstration of how Dylan could almost effortlessly re-imagine a song.


What is further interesting is that Dylan's December 1962 demo of "Tomorrow Is A Long Time," the second known from that year, did not see an official release until October 2010.
http://www.bjorner.com/DSN00150%201962.htm

And the live April 1963 performance is the one officially released in 1971 on Bob Dylan's Greatest Hits, Vol. II and later included on the 1978 triple LP compilation, Masterpieces.
http://www.bjorner.com/DSN00340%201963.htm

So, what Odetta referenced for her 1965 RCA recording is a mystery. Perhaps Bob's song was common coin in folk circles. Elvis clearly loved Odetta's album and, as noted, her arrangement is the one Presley brought to Nashville in May 1966.


650306_RCA 3324_Odetta_Sings_Dylan.JPG

Odetta Sings Dylan (RCA 3324, March 6, 1965)

Side 1
1. Baby, I'm in the Mood for You
2. Long Ago, Far Away
3. Don't Think Twice, It's All Right
4. Tomorrow is a Long Time
5. Masters of War
6. Walkin' Down the Line

Side 2
1. The Times They Are A-Changin'
2. With God on Our Side
3. Long Time Gone
4. Mr. Tambourine Man
5. Blowin' in the Wind
6. Paths of Victory

Elvis covered the three Dylan songs highlighted above, and likely became intimate with them thanks to this LP.


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Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:04 am

How interesting. She uses the same start that Elvis sings on his later record. So if I were to ask - How many times did Elston (aka Bob Dylan) cut Tomorrow is a long time but just in the studio and rehearsals. I can guess each were done in different arrangements.

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:28 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:So, what Odetta referenced for her 1965 RCA recording is a mystery. Perhaps Bob's song was common coin in folk circles.


that's possible and some of dylan's sheet music was published in folk magazines but it's more likely she heard dylan's demo. those demos definitely circulated among musicians and record companies because publisher witmark wanted to push these songs. that's also how they eventually landed in the hands of collectors and on various bootlegs (long before the official release).

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:37 pm

Robt wrote: Seems that dedicated Bob Dylan fans are posting loads of rare songs on You Tube under the allias of Elston Gunn. Where did that come from ?


that's because sony (or dylan's management?) keeps cleaning up on youtube.
the elston gunn or rather gunnn alias came from dylan's time in the backing band of bobby vee. that's a nice story:
http://expectingrain.com/dok/who/g/gunnnelston.html

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:06 pm

Instead of Love Letters, Indescribably Blue , etc, this should have been an A sided single in 1966, of course scaled down a bit from it original running time. Darin just had a huge hit with a contemporary folk song. Elvis would have too and you have the added element of a Dylan song, who was the hottest solo act in the business in 1966.

Re: Tomorrow is a Long Time

Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:57 am

michael grasberger wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:So, what Odetta referenced for her 1965 RCA recording is a mystery. Perhaps Bob's song was common coin in folk circles.


that's possible and some of dylan's sheet music was published in folk magazines but it's more likely she heard dylan's demo. those demos definitely circulated among musicians and record companies because publisher witmark wanted to push these songs. that's also how they eventually landed in the hands of collectors and on various bootlegs (long before the official release).


Ian and Sylvia did it before Odetta, with the melody closer to the demo (which sounds so much like "Seven Curses" to me. I much prefer his other versions.) It would be well-known in folk circles. I am sure the Kingston Trio did it also earlier (even closer to the demo), but I can't find it, or accurately date it.

Here's the '64 version:
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A factoid: I think Elvis is the only one, who for some reason, never said "crooked trail." No idea why.

Another observation. Odetta had been a friend of Maya Angelou, who we know said some very unkind things about Elvis. So, it got me to thinking. I think maybe she might have found Bob's comment about Elvis's version. And in spite of Bob's perhaps deliberate misdirection in the interview (a ha!), found the Elvis recording.

And was P.O.'d!!! (But instead of being mad at Bob, who she apparently knew and liked, well . . . And maybe she shared the matter of the song with her friend, the poet, who maybe only knew this about him, and combined it with other scuttlebutt she heard. "He stole my arrangement!" Now, there's no evidence of that - that she even knew about Elvis's version or Bob's admiration, but Angelou had such unusually strong feelings about Elvis, negative feelings, and was her good friend.

Perhaps, Odetta thought Elvis had a hit with it, which he did not. For several years, it was only a "hit" with one person, apparently: Bob Dylan, who let the world in on the secret contents of the Kismet album. {You would need to read his exact words in the '69 RS interview to know what I'm referring to. Bob said "it was on Kismet. He did it with just guitar." Bob would have to have known that Elvis sang a song called "Kismet" in order to make that "mistake." I'm now thinking it wasn't a mistake at all. Just didn't want her to hear it. And he was untruthful about the arrangement!} I think Bob must have heard it for what it was: an homage to Odetta, and a deep piece of singing during a difficult time in Elvis's life and career.)

Just a thought.

rjm