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Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:54 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:... it is no small wonder he is not held in such high regard artistically.

Those who do not hold Elvis' greatest achievements, and overall career, as one of the greatest of all time, are simply ignorant. Not too many artists change the world. He was one of them.



One of the best response posts I've seen on here! well said Doc.

Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:09 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:Why in the world, with all the beautiful, unreleased Presley footage in existence, would EPE want to craft a project showing his downfall? How would it be sold to the public? It's depressing to consider such circumstances.

Because it is a very fascinating and interesting story. Are all the great documentaries fairytales?
drjohncarpenter wrote: is delusional to think a re-edit with improved sound "would impress most people." Elvis' singing is uneven at best on the June tour, and his voice control is very poor overall. To be in strong voice a singer must be in good health.

You don't get it do you? The main key to how a EIC documentary should be made is to prove that despite a failing health, drug abuse etc..Elvis could still sing.
drjohncarpenter wrote:Presley is in poor health..

Great observation.
drjohncarpenter wrote:... watching 35 years later will only give credence to "I Really Don't Want To Know" or "My Way."

You are simply wrong.
drjohncarpenter wrote: ..if most of his set had been well-sung it would be overshadowed by his shocking appearance.

Wrong again, it would be the other way around. The average Joe knows how he looked, but would be surprised how well he sung certain songs. Most people haven't heard 'Hurt' and 'Unchained Melody' from EIC. Shouldn't be to hard to understand.
drjohncarpenter wrote:1977. Not a good year.

And?

Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:52 pm

Johnny2523 wrote:Elvis can clearly be seen thinner than on Rapid City.... On footage as well as photo graphs on this show doc.
Elvis lost 18 lbs if i remember right.

I think you may be confusing Elvis' bloated face from the abuse of dilaudid (his appearance from June 18-21) vs. his appearance only a few days later during that tour once the swelling in his face had gone down... Regardless, on June 26 Elvis was obviously under the influence and it is clearly evident during this performance.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:14 pm

Delboy wrote:Just played the CBS Elvis in Concert video for the first time in years; had to switch it off. It is seriously painful viewing. I know Elvis (and CP) were in financial trouble but how they thought this would get them back on track is beyond me. Hard work. If you think having this in Blue-Ray or surround sound etc will improve it you are delusional I think a dose of the 68 special is in order. ::rocks


There is indeed only one cure: listen to his best reordings over the years, and watch him in cetains movie scenes and of course the 68 Comeback Special and TTWII.

Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:53 pm

What is remarkable about Unchained Melody in this special is he gets through it, not that it's particularly good. Most non fans upon hearing this are not impressed with it and think it's pretty awful. Hurt come off quite a bit better. If this was ever released it wouldn't impress people, it would make them sad.

Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:04 pm

stevelecher wrote:What is remarkable about Unchained Melody in this special is he gets through it, not that it's particularly good. Most non fans upon hearing this are not impressed with it and think it's pretty awful. Hurt come off quite a bit better. If this was ever released it wouldn't impress people, it would make them sad.


It should be noted that in even in the final editing stages, after Elvis passed away, this footage was discarded. Elvis was out of gas by this point in the show.

Re: Painful viewing

Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:08 pm

stevelecher wrote:What is remarkable about Unchained Melody in this special is he gets through it, not that it's particularly good. Most non fans upon hearing this are not impressed with it and think it's pretty awful. Hurt come off quite a bit better. If this was ever released it wouldn't impress people, it would make them sad.


No accounting for the variable views on Unchained Melody, personally I go with this one.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/137 ... n-tonight/

"But oddly, the next track I'm likely to play is "Unchained Melody", the second to last cut on the set, recorded in 1977 during one of his final shows. As you can see from a stirring YouTube, Elvis during this period is bloated, caked in horrifying makeup, and drugged, a shell of a man only months away from death. But somehow, sitting down at the piano, he manages to wring something out of this song that no one else had imagined. It's garish, operatic, and morbid, and I feel a little guilty for how much I love it; Elvis failed in so many ways, but this was his one untouchable thing, and I love hearing him do it in spite of it all, speaking to the world in the one language he thoroughly mastered."

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:59 am

Liverbobs wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:... it is no small wonder he is not held in such high regard artistically.

Those who do not hold Elvis' greatest achievements, and overall career, as one of the greatest of all time, are simply ignorant. Not too many artists change the world. He was one of them.



One of the best response posts I've seen on here! well said Doc.


Thank you!!

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:04 am

FredAistair wrote:
stevelecher wrote:What is remarkable about Unchained Melody in this special is he gets through it, not that it's particularly good. Most non fans upon hearing this are not impressed with it and think it's pretty awful. Hurt come off quite a bit better. If this was ever released it wouldn't impress people, it would make them sad.


No accounting for the variable views on Unchained Melody, personally I go with this one.

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/137 ... n-tonight/

"But oddly, the next track I'm likely to play is "Unchained Melody", the second to last cut on the set, recorded in 1977 during one of his final shows. As you can see from a stirring YouTube, Elvis during this period is bloated, caked in horrifying makeup, and drugged, a shell of a man only months away from death. But somehow, sitting down at the piano, he manages to wring something out of this song that no one else had imagined. It's garish, operatic, and morbid, and I feel a little guilty for how much I love it; Elvis failed in so many ways, but this was his one untouchable thing, and I love hearing him do it in spite of it all, speaking to the world in the one language he thoroughly mastered."



I tend to agree with this perspective too.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:14 am

Xaykev wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Why in the world, with all the beautiful, unreleased Presley footage in existence, would EPE want to craft a project showing his downfall? How would it be sold to the public? It's depressing to consider such circumstances.


Because it is a very fascinating and interesting story. Are all the great documentaries fairytales?


We're not talking about a documentary on the catastrophic Haiti earthquake in 2010, the subject is a singer who changed the world, brought joy to millions and was handsomer than ten movie stars.

The 1977 footage is depressing. Period. And there are hundreds of hours of film of Elvis in his prime that deserve release first.


Xaykev wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote: is delusional to think a re-edit with improved sound "would impress most people." Elvis' singing is uneven at best on the June tour, and his voice control is very poor overall. To be in strong voice a singer must be in good health.


You don't get it do you? The main key to how a EIC documentary should be made is to prove that despite a failing health, drug abuse etc..Elvis could still sing.


Yes, in June 1977 Elvis could open his mouth and sound came out. But no matter how one reworks the existing 1977 materials, the quality of his vocals will be seen as substandard, and a reflection of his very poor health and appearance.

As I've said many times before, we do not honor the man and his legacy by deluding ourselves that he had no fallow periods. And the only way to justify an official release of the June 1977 CBS tapes is to pretend that it offers Elvis looking and sounding "good."

Let's not live in fantasy land. Elvis deserves better.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:47 am

Johnny2523 wrote:@Doc, This looks like a overweight, rapid city elvis to you??



Isn't that second pic from 1974?

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:54 pm

Spanish_Eyes wrote:
Johnny2523 wrote:@Doc, This looks like a overweight, rapid city elvis to you??



Isn't that second pic from 1974?


nope ;) june 26 1977

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:05 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Xaykev wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:Why in the world, with all the beautiful, unreleased Presley footage in existence, would EPE want to craft a project showing his downfall? How would it be sold to the public? It's depressing to consider such circumstances.


Because it is a very fascinating and interesting story. Are all the great documentaries fairytales?


We're not talking about a documentary on the catastrophic Haiti earthquake in 2010, the subject is a singer who changed the world, brought joy to millions and was handsomer than ten movie stars.

The 1977 footage is depressing. Period. And there are hundreds of hours of film of Elvis in his prime that deserve release first.


Xaykev wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote: is delusional to think a re-edit with improved sound "would impress most people." Elvis' singing is uneven at best on the June tour, and his voice control is very poor overall. To be in strong voice a singer must be in good health.


You don't get it do you? The main key to how a EIC documentary should be made is to prove that despite a failing health, drug abuse etc..Elvis could still sing.


Yes, in June 1977 Elvis could open his mouth and sound came out. But no matter how one reworks the existing 1977 materials, the quality of his vocals will be seen as substandard, and a reflection of his very poor health and appearance.

As I've said many times before, we do not honor the man and his legacy by deluding ourselves that he had no fallow periods. And the only way to justify an official release of the June 1977 CBS tapes is to pretend that it offers Elvis looking and sounding "good."

Let's not live in fantasy land. Elvis deserves better.


I'm in total agreement with you Doc, the public would still get a kick out of this even 35 years on. It should 'never' get a general release. I love the guy and would hate to hear the comments/ridicule that would definitely follow....he deserves more. I'm with EPE on this.......

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:20 pm

Last night I watched with my wife on you tube some clips from the 1968 special (Jailhouse Rock, All Shook Up and Blue Suede Shoes) and after that some from Aloha (Mountain, Trilogy, Burning Love and My Way). And finally we watched Are you Lonesome, Love me and Hurt from EIC. My wife (not a fan) sad at first: oh, i never believed Elvis was so magnetic and vibrant. Watching Aloha songs: he looks good, sings very well the ballads but a lot from his energy and dynamism is gone. At last after watching EIC segment, she said: this is the image I had in mind : the fat, drugged and forgetting lyrics Elvis. So I think a lot of nonfans had in their mind the EIC image. I didn't realize until now that fact. A fan like myself likes Elvis anyway and the TV special can be realized on DVD via FTD for fans only.

Re: Painful viewing?

Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:57 pm

jurasic1968 wrote:A fan like myself likes Elvis anyway and the TV special can be realized on DVD(...)

I know this would probably do more bad than good to Elvis' image and legacy, but I would like to see it released on DVD someday soon (both shows and whatever else was recorded) as a limited edition just for us, (hardcore) fans.
After all, it's not like the average person hasn't seen it on YouTube already...

Re: Painful viewing?

Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:01 pm

JimmyCool wrote:I know this would probably do more bad than good to Elvis' image and legacy, but I would like to see it released on DVD someday soon (both shows and whatever else was recorded) as a limited edition just for us, (hardcore) fans.
After all, it's not like the average person hasn't seen it on YouTube already...


It's distressing to once again note how some deep fans really don't care if the 1977 CBS tapes "do more bad than good to Elvis' image and legacy" as long as they can have a copy " just for us."

All the known footage is already out there, on DVD, for the "(hardcore) fans." Yet, that somehow is not enough.

YouTube is a specious comparison. The material is neither advertised nor marketed. People do not have to pay to view it. Most who find these video uploads have been directly searching for them.

If the 1977 CBS tapes were legally sold, a customer who experienced its many deficiencies would have no reason not to shout from every mountaintop how awful it was. Such publicity would do Elvis Presley no favors. None.

Re: Painful viewing

Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:50 pm

elvis-fan wrote:
Johnny2523 wrote:Elvis can clearly be seen thinner than on Rapid City.... On footage as well as photo graphs on this show doc.
Elvis lost 18 lbs if i remember right.

I think you may be confusing Elvis' bloated face from the abuse of dilaudid (his appearance from June 18-21) vs. his appearance only a few days later during that tour once the swelling in his face had gone down... Regardless, on June 26 Elvis was obviously under the influence and it is clearly evident during this performance.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Since when does Dilaudis cause bloated face? His bloated face, stomach and hands were more likely caused by steroids prescribed for his colon.

Re: Painful viewing

Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:10 pm

The EIC footage is quite simply the worst footage ever taken of Elvis! It's like filming a terminally ill patient. I love the bones of Elvis but this is without a doubt a time in his career which should be happily left to history. There are numerous editions of EIC for sale in good enough quality for those who want to own it. Even if this material was transferred to Blu Ray the quality wouldn't be crystal clear anyway??

The viewing of this material is distressing at best, if it were released would anyone be able to say they would watch it frequently? My bet is that those that want it, just want it for the sake of having an official release in their collection, with little regard for the possible effect it has critically.

This is the only time I am happy that EPE has something which they do not intend to release...

Re: Painful viewing

Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:52 am

It is my understanding that most of the EIC special was footage taken from Rapid City SD and very little of the June 19th Omaha concert was used. I have watched both shows on You Tube and I think Elvis seemed to be in better spirits during the Omaha show than he did in Rapid City. Other than Charlie's mic being turned up way to loud amplifying his painfully off key vocals, the show itself seemed to move along a little better (for that tour at least). I suppose that was the main reason to cull most of that show from the final edit. In the backstage footage from Rapid City, Elvis looks like he is dreading the moment the curtain is pulled back for his stage entrance.

Re: Painful viewing

Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:49 pm

stevelecher wrote:
KHoots wrote:
stevelecher wrote:
poormadpeter wrote:He may not have been dying in the terminal illness sense, but it all amounts to pretty much the same thing, albeit at his own hands.

Thus my statement, he wasn't dying, he was killing himself. We do agree.


Educate me. Someone who is killing himself isn't dying? I believe that is exactly what someone who is killing themself is doing. If the body is beginning to shut down--however slowly or quickly, and particularly if it's by ones own hand--that equals dying. No?

Really KHoots? You can't see the difference? A man dying of cancer is dying. He's wasting away and there's nothing he can do to stop it. Elvis........kept up and increased his daily regimen of dangerous medications until one day his body and heart quit.....


Exactly. His system shut down because he was slowly killing it. No question, Elvis could have stopped what he was doing, gotten healthy, and improved his outlook. But, he did not do that. He continued to poison a system that had been compromised for years.

Either way--cancer, or self-induced--dying is dying.

Re: Painful viewing

Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:48 pm

Jokerlola wrote:
elvis-fan wrote:
Johnny2523 wrote:Elvis can clearly be seen thinner than on Rapid City.... On footage as well as photo graphs on this show doc.
Elvis lost 18 lbs if i remember right.

I think you may be confusing Elvis' bloated face from the abuse of dilaudid (his appearance from June 18-21) vs. his appearance only a few days later during that tour once the swelling in his face had gone down... Regardless, on June 26 Elvis was obviously under the influence and it is clearly evident during this performance.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Since when does Dilaudis cause bloated face.

It's a side effect as result of an allergic reaction to the drug...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Last edited by elvis-fan on Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Painful viewing

Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:27 pm

dr borgo wrote:It is my understanding that most of the EIC special was footage taken from Rapid City SD and very little of the June 19th Omaha concert was used. I have watched both shows on You Tube and I think Elvis seemed to be in better spirits during the Omaha show than he did in Rapid City. Other than Charlie's mic being turned up way to loud amplifying his painfully off key vocals, the show itself seemed to move along a little better (for that tour at least). I suppose that was the main reason to cull most of that show from the final edit. In the backstage footage from Rapid City, Elvis looks like he is dreading the moment the curtain is pulled back for his stage entrance.


Jerry Hopkins erroneously reported that all performances save for My Way derived from Rapid City. My Way, in fact, was not performed in Omaha. It was in the Rapid City show.

Omaha footage contained in the final edit of the special includes parts of See See Rider and Can't Help Falling In Love, along with complete performances of Teddy Bear/Don't Be Cruel, How Great Thou Art and Early Morning Rain.

Re: Painful viewing

Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:25 am

elvisjock wrote:Jerry Hopkins erroneously reported that all performances save for My Way derived from Rapid City. My Way, in fact, was not performed in Omaha. It was in the Rapid City show.

Omaha footage contained in the final edit of the special includes parts of See See Rider and Can't Help Falling In Love, along with complete performances of Teddy Bear/Don't Be Cruel, How Great Thou Art and Early Morning Rain.


Oh, what the heck.

Although Hopkins wasn't far off -- almost nothing was used from Omaha -- he was inaccurate.

Below is a hopefully-precise rundown of what was used for:

Elvis In Concert LP and TV in October 1977
Elvis Aron Presley (EAP) in 1980
"This Is Elvis" film (TIE) and LP (TIE LP) in 1981
"This Is Elvis" expanded video cassette (TIE VHS) in 1984


ELVIS PRESLEY: Sunday, June 19, 1977, Omaha, NE
Introduction: Also Sprach Zarathustra
C. C. Rider - TV (partial)
I Got A Woman / Amen
That's All Right
Are You Lonesome To-night?
Love Me - TIE VHS
Fairytale - LP
Little Sister - LP
Teddy Bear / Don't Be Cruel - LP + TV
And I Love You So - LP
Jailhouse Rock
How Great Thou Art - LP + TV
Introduction of singers, musicians
Early Morning Rain (John Wilkinson) - TV
What'd I Say (James Burton)
Johnny B. Goode (James Burton)
TCB Band Theme (Ronnie Tutt)
Bass Solo (Jerry Scheff)
Two Mile Pike (Tony Brown)
I Really Don't Want To Know
Electric Organ Solo (Bobby Ogdin)
The Fly (Joe Guercio Orchestra)
Hurt
Hound Dog
O Sole Mio (Sherrill Nielsen) / It's Now Or Never
Introduction of Felton Jarvis, Bruce Jackson, Bill Porter
Can't Help Falling In Love / Closing vamp - LP + TV


ELVIS PRESLEY: Tuesday, June 21, 1977, Rapid City, SD
Introduction: Also Sprach Zarathustra - LP
C. C. Rider - LP + TV
I Got A Woman / Amen - LP
That's All Right - LP + TV
Are You Lonesome To-night? - LP + TV (partial), TIE, TIE LP
Love Me - LP
If You Love Me (Let Me Know) - LP
You Gave Me A Mountain - LP + TV
Jailhouse Rock - LP + TV
O Sole Mio (Sherrill Nielsen) / It's Now Or Never - LP
Tryin' To Get To You - LP, EAP
Hawaiian Wedding Song - LP
Teddy Bear / Don't Be Cruel
My Way - LP + TV, EAP, TIE, TIE LP, TIE VHS
Introduction of singers, musicians
Early Morning Rain (John Wilkinson) - LP
What'd I Say (James Burton) - LP
Johnny B. Goode (James Burton) - LP
TCB Band Theme (Ronnie Tutt)
Bass Solo (Jerry Scheff)
Two Mile Pike (Tony Brown)
I Really Don't Want To Know - LP + TV
Electric Organ Solo (Bobby Ogdin)
The Fly (Joe Guercio Orchestra)
Introduction of father, girlfriend - LP (partial) + TV
Hurt - LP + TV
Hound Dog - LP + TV
Unchained Melody - EAP
Can't Help Falling In Love / Closing vamp


1977 Mailgram.JPG


Phew!
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Re: Painful viewing

Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:43 pm

I'm one of those diluted fans that's craving for an official DVD release of all the material. It's a true Elvis experience. Maybe they should just use the best of Omaha, because there are some weaker moments there. I have a friend that's not a fan. I left a copy of the DA Cincinatti 76 release in his car and he won't give it back. He prefers the 76/77 stuff over the overbearing 69/72 stuff( his words not mine) Most people I know that are not as emotionally involved with Elvis like most of us on here really don't get the drama. They think he looks okay in 77 and the singing is good. I think you can edit EIC SE into a positive special or a dramatic one like they did in 77.

Re: Painful viewing

Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:54 pm

Wiebe wrote:I'm one of those diluted fans that's craving for an official DVD release of all the material. It's a true Elvis experience. Maybe they should just use the best of Omaha, because there are some weaker moments there. I have a friend that's not a fan. I left a copy of the DA Cincinatti 76 release in his car and he won't give it back. He prefers the 76/77 stuff over the overbearing 69/72 stuff( his words not mine) Most people I know that are not as emotionally involved with Elvis like most of us on here really don't get the drama. They think he looks okay in 77 and the singing is good. I think you can edit EIC SE into a positive special or a dramatic one like they did in 77.

These people would be in the minority... as Elvis in 1977 did not look well and his singing more often than not was well below his capability. While I would like to see an FTD release of the audio from the June 21st Rapid City show, I do not welcome an official release of the footage.