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Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:55 am

r&b wrote:
GuitarKing wrote:No I'm not bored with those oldies, Elvis was, and he didn't like doing them so he'd rush thru it or just mumble the words to get it over then he should have switch it. That all I'm saying.



'I am not in the least bit ashamed of Hound Dog and Heartbreak Hotel' So says Elvis at the MSG press conf, yet he performed them terribly with no respect. If you saw any of the 12-12-12 concert, you saw performers twice Elvis' age giving their 'oldie' standard songs the full monty. No excuse.

Elvis gave his oldies 110% when he did the "Comback Special." 69' and 70' were very good also. Professional athletes put 100% in every night out. Run the same plays and same stadiums. What Elvis did was unprofessional. That why I feel I'm going to be disappointed with FTD coming out. I'm happy it's available, and I will savor what I can get out of it, but I know he's gonna take song "off." He'll be on cruise control throughout some of it. :(

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:01 am

Im sure all those on 12-12-12 have been to rehab and sober for many years and rediscovered their music and the love of performing...Elvis never got to that point..

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:28 pm

I'll hope i have mine soon
I found these on website, they sure look good
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Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:46 pm

r&b wrote:
GuitarKing wrote:No I'm not bored with those oldies, Elvis was, and he didn't like doing them so he'd rush thru it or just mumble the words to get it over then he should have switch it. That all I'm saying.



'I am not in the least bit ashamed of Hound Dog and Heartbreak Hotel' So says Elvis at the MSG press conf, yet he performed them terribly with no respect. If you saw any of the 12-12-12 concert, you saw performers twice Elvis' age giving their 'oldie' standard songs the full monty. No excuse.


you cant compare that to elvis, who knows maybe elvis would give alot more care by now. We dont know how elvis would change after '77. when the colonel died 20 years ago who know what impact it would have on elvis maybe he would have then toured the world finally.. dont compare 12-12-12 to something that happened more than 30 years ago.. it was a diffrent time..

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:50 pm

poormadpeter wrote:I think the thing you are missing here is that they are rehearsals and not performances. You cannot judge a man when he is singing to allow himself and the band to rehearse. It was never meant to be heard, and so we should only judge on the live shows and not the rehearsals.


Exactly, and even with some 900 concerts in the 1969 to 1977 timeframe one cannot expect all to rank amongst the best. Elvis in 1972 was à different performer compared to 1969 and from 1973 on health issues got more and more involved. The story written in those 7 years until 1977 is not going to change. Elvis left us with quite some mediocre material, most often never meant for released, but also loads of great recordings. It is up to us whether we want the whole spectrum in our collections.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:41 pm

Moonchild wrote:Im sure all those on 12-12-12 have been to rehab and sober for many years and rediscovered their music and the love of performing...Elvis never got to that point..



I never heard of Bruce Springsteen having an abuse problem and being in rehab. At 63, he still gives 3-4 hour shows. So does McCartney who may have done drugs but I dont think he was ever quite was addicted to anything where he needed help. Elvis didnt care to rock much after 1970 , even if he didnt want to do the 50's stuff , a great single like Promised Land was not done & promoted in concert in favor of ONJ songs and other tripe.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:51 pm

rlj4ep wrote:I really like the 1969 versions of My Babe. Elvis seems really committed in his delivery and the songs rock. I understand that Elvis performed this song at Lake Tahoe in 1971.
As far as Elvis' level of commitment on this particular release, we must keep in mind that it is a rehearsal. I'm ust so glad to be getting this release. Along with the concert it makes a nice edition.

rlj


Same here. In fact "My Babe" would've made a great studio cut during the june 1970 sessions at Nashville, especially minus the pathetic Bobby Morris orchestra. Pity James or Ronnie did not egg Elvis on to wax a master.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:49 pm

Elvis had already released a master of My Babe just a few months before June 1970, why would he cut another one? And the Bobby Morris orchestra was not "pathetic".

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:07 pm

r&b wrote:
Moonchild wrote:Im sure all those on 12-12-12 have been to rehab and sober for many years and rediscovered their music and the love of performing...Elvis never got to that point..



I never heard of Bruce Springsteen having an abuse problem and being in rehab. At 63, he still gives 3-4 hour shows. So does McCartney who may have done drugs but I dont think he was ever quite was addicted to anything where he needed help. Elvis didnt care to rock much after 1970 , even if he didnt want to do the 50's stuff , a great single like Promised Land was not done & promoted in concert in favor of ONJ songs and other tripe.

You need to take a step back, and pause:

- It's a different era than the '70s. When Elvis returned to the stage, there was a narrow school of thought that music from the 1950s was "kid stuff," and unworthy of a "mature" audience. Artists have since discovered that even their earliest work -- which often seems undistinguished to them -- is deeply appreciated.

- As in many things, Elvis led the way in what to do, and what NOT to do. His poor treatment of himself, later stage appearances and his back catalog is something the great ones today strive to avoid -- Bruce Springsteen being a prime example. I'm convinced that much of what Bruce does at 63 is based on lessons learned on Tuesday, August 16, 1977, when he was 27.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:52 pm

thermoking wrote:I'll hope i have mine soon
I found these on website, they sure look good

I do too! I'm looking in the mailbox everyday lol. Elvis back in Memphis is gonna be great.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:26 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
r&b wrote:
Moonchild wrote:I never heard of Bruce Springsteen having an abuse problem and being in rehab. At 63, he still gives 3-4 hour shows. So does McCartney who may have done drugs but I dont think he was ever quite was addicted to anything where he needed help. Elvis didnt care to rock much after 1970 , even if he didnt want to do the 50's stuff , a great single like Promised Land was not done & promoted in concert in favor of ONJ songs and other tripe.

You need to take a step back, and pause:

- It's a different era than the '70s. When Elvis returned to the stage, there was a narrow school of thought that music from the 1950s was "kid stuff," and unworthy of a "mature" audience. Artists have since discovered that even their earliest work -- which often seems undistinguished to them -- is deeply appreciated.

- As in many things, Elvis led the way in what to do, and what NOT to do. His poor treatment of himself, later stage appearances and his back catalog is something the great ones today strive to avoid -- Bruce Springsteen being a prime example. I'm convinced that much of what Bruce does at 63 is based on lessons learned on Tuesday, August 16, 1977, when he was 27.


Excellent post, Doc.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:51 am

yes great post...... i have a very good seat to see Bruce in Sydney on March 20th...2013.... i am certain i shall enjoy his show!~ 8)

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:55 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
r&b wrote:
Moonchild wrote:Im sure all those on 12-12-12 have been to rehab and sober for many years and rediscovered their music and the love of performing...Elvis never got to that point..



I never heard of Bruce Springsteen having an abuse problem and being in rehab. At 63, he still gives 3-4 hour shows. So does McCartney who may have done drugs but I dont think he was ever quite was addicted to anything where he needed help. Elvis didnt care to rock much after 1970 , even if he didnt want to do the 50's stuff , a great single like Promised Land was not done & promoted in concert in favor of ONJ songs and other tripe.

You need to take a step back, and pause:

- It's a different era than the '70s. When Elvis returned to the stage, there was a narrow school of thought that music from the 1950s was "kid stuff," and unworthy of a "mature" audience. Artists have since discovered that even their earliest work -- which often seems undistinguished to them -- is deeply appreciated.

- As in many things, Elvis led the way in what to do, and what NOT to do. His poor treatment of himself, later stage appearances and his back catalog is something the great ones today strive to avoid -- Bruce Springsteen being a prime example. I'm convinced that much of what Bruce does at 63 is based on lessons learned on Tuesday, August 16, 1977, when he was 27.


Well said.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:10 am

drjohncarpenter wrote:
r&b wrote:
Moonchild wrote:Im sure all those on 12-12-12 have been to rehab and sober for many years and rediscovered their music and the love of performing...Elvis never got to that point..



I never heard of Bruce Springsteen having an abuse problem and being in rehab. At 63, he still gives 3-4 hour shows. So does McCartney who may have done drugs but I dont think he was ever quite was addicted to anything where he needed help. Elvis didnt care to rock much after 1970 , even if he didnt want to do the 50's stuff , a great single like Promised Land was not done & promoted in concert in favor of ONJ songs and other tripe.

You need to take a step back, and pause:

- It's a different era than the '70s. When Elvis returned to the stage, there was a narrow school of thought that music from the 1950s was "kid stuff," and unworthy of a "mature" audience. Artists have since discovered that even their earliest work -- which often seems undistinguished to them -- is deeply appreciated.

- As in many things, Elvis led the way in what to do, and what NOT to do. His poor treatment of himself, later stage appearances and his back catalog is something the great ones today strive to avoid -- Bruce Springsteen being a prime example. I'm convinced that much of what Bruce does at 63 is based on lessons learned on Tuesday, August 16, 1977, when he was 27.


Absolutely. If anyone thinks that "no one" learned from his mistakes, well, here's the evidence to the contrary. It wasn't all in vain.

And yes, at the time, with everything flying by so fast, it must have seemed as though "the '50s" were much longer ago than they actually were. But if you look at many of the songs, many had quite a bit of depth. "Peace In The Valley," "Is It So Strange" and as mentioned, "Heartbreak Hotel." But there were more. "Mystery Train." What he did with "Blue Moon." So many of 'em. Sure, there was some "just for kicks" stuff, but not as much as some other performers of the time, I think. It kind of got into that direction with some of the "Loving You" songs, just some of them. Of course: "Teddy Bear." "Lonesome Cowboy" was not quite right for him. Like that. But there were others that were really incredible, and had amazing depth. In the '70s, one didn't necessarily see the '70s as they would later be seen. What seemed like "depth" then, was often pretension.

So yeah, you do have to look back.

rjm (I love that "thank you" button"!)

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:06 pm

I'm not sure a nearly 70 year old man "rocking" out on something like "Jumping Jack Flash" is the height of dignity. What sense of menace does a 70-year-old bring to "Jumping Jack Flash"? What sense does it make for a 70 year old multi-millionaire to sing a song like "Satisfaction" (not performed at 12-12-12) other than audiences overwhelmingly, desperately wanting to witness the iconic image of the Rolling Stones singing their most famous song? That's an important thing and it's great they give the effort, but inherently that man on that stage could not possibly represent the lyrics in that song. He is old, he has had his every desire in his lifetime satiated. (These concerns apply less to Springsteen because so many of his songs deal with adult concerns or are direct narrative tales.) Mick Jagger and that song do not go together anymore and they haven't for decades. That's kind of the contradiction that Elvis was dealing with in the 1970s with his 1950s hits. He's not 21 anymore, yet he's iconic for these songs and they must be performed even if he doesn't relate to them anymore. Maybe these other performers have found a better middle ground, but it's not as if there were not a legitimate dilemma. If you think about it, a 70 year old Mick Jagger prowling around the stage like he's the hot young wolf is kind of an absurd and pitiful figure. If any of us engaged in the same sort of age inappropriate behavior we would be pilloried. It's not that you should fold up and die or surrender life when you get old, but at minimum you should have learned something. Mick Jagger trying to perform "Satisfaction" the way he did when he was 25 shows us he's gained what exactly?

"Hound Dog" is a perfect example of the dilemma Elvis as the first rocker to maintain a career in the mainstream faced. Elvis initially added the song as a burlesque, a joke, a bit of on stage fun. His outrageous performance on the Milton Berle Show, the performance of a young iconoclast, made sense for a guy who's making his mark by tearing up the system that previously had shut him out. It also demanded a record. The Steve Allen incident added another layer- anger. That force of nature that's on record is a large result of that anger. So what you have is a number added to the show as a bit of fun, a bit of outlandish farce and made into a record very much the sign post of one moment in the singer's life. The record performance is immortalized and frozen in time. (By that I don't mean bound by time, but the same forever and ever.) The singer is very clearly not. So it's a dilemma you have an iconic record and you have a singer who no longer has the power to deliver that song the way he did when he was 21. But it must be performed. Did Elvis want to be 70 years old and still swinging his hips to "Hound Dog" or did he see that as an indignant fate? It's a very important question and it's one that's too often ignored. An important element in the later Elvis' show- and Elvis himself mentioned this in his relatively few press conferences- was to demonstrate that he was not the same man he was in 1956. He had grown, he had learned, he had changed. Maybe sometimes your audience has to move with you.

I interviewed Billy Vera awhile back and he made an interesting comment to me. He said that the 1950s rockers at least wanted to grow up while the '60s rockers acted as if you could stay young forever. I think Elvis' later show, for all its imperfections, was a reflection of that desire, the idea that you couldn't, or more importantly, shouldn't rock forever. In the rock music choices that Elvis made in the 1970s you can at least see that these lyrics relate to a middle aged man. You still get horny. You still have a past, and the country is still full of possibilities as reflected in Berry's "Promised Land." But how many 40-year-olds feel comfortable asking to be someone's teddy bear?

Now this is not to excuse the fact that Elvis, for whatever reason, had a relatively short attention span. He constantly needed new input and new challenges to perform at his peak. Of course, this is another argument against some of the old songs. What did "Don't Be Cruel" have new to offer Elvis?

On some of the tracks, though, other types of context are extremely relevant. In a show that Elvis has decided- again for better or worse- to make about sensory overload, what role does a song like "In the Ghetto" play? And when Elvis is singing 20 songs a night does he really want to tear up his voice with "If I Can Dream?"

The song listing thing is made too much of anyway. He kept the lineup because it worked and there's something like 200 songs that were performed live between 1969 and 1977. That's a big catalog. The intent was not for folks to listen to 100 or 200 shows. If you listened to the half dozen or so (save EIC) that Elvis released in that time, complaints are few.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:20 pm

Elvis was still in good form in 1972 overall. I know I enjoy his work from that year far more than anything Mick has done since he hit his late thirties and I am a big fan of The Rolling Stones through the late seventies. It's valid to say Elvis didn't hit it like he had a few years before, but he still had something in 1972 that was very magnetic and mostly performed very well that year certain oldies excepted. Elvis may not have been changing the world anymore, but 1972 is the last year I can say I feel he was consistently pretty darn solid. I look forward to the FTD. As for "My Babe" the 1969 versions are better, but the live version I heard on the Command Performance boot LP is nothing to be ashamed of and I am pretty certain it will be the same live version on the FTD here.

Elvis Presley was not only a great white R&B performer he was one of the best period. Anyone who can't hear that has some deep prejudice of their own. Afterall is not Charlie Pride a wonderful country singer? Music should be color blind and I still feel that nothing works better to bring people of all backgrounds together.

One last thing fifties rock and roll is fantastic and a lot of early seventies rock music is too. I don't see where one is better personally, just different. Back in 1982 when I discovered him at age six Elvis records like "Hound Dog", "All Shook Up" "Burning Love" and "Polk Salad Annie" exposed me to the best of both and I am forever grateful for that.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:38 pm

likethebike wrote:I'm not sure a nearly 70 year old man "rocking" out on something like "Jumping Jack Flash" is the height of dignity. What sense of menace does a 70-year-old bring to "Jumping Jack Flash"? What sense does it make for a 70 year old multi-millionaire to sing a song like "Satisfaction" (not performed at 12-12-12) other than audiences overwhelmingly, desperately wanting to witness the iconic image of the Rolling Stones singing their most famous song? That's an important thing and it's great they give the effort, but inherently that man on that stage could not possibly represent the lyrics in that song. He is old, he has had his every desire in his lifetime satiated. (These concerns apply less to Springsteen because so many of his songs deal with adult concerns or are direct narrative tales.) Mick Jagger and that song do not go together anymore and they haven't for decades. That's kind of the contradiction that Elvis was dealing with in the 1970s with his 1950s hits. He's not 21 anymore, yet he's iconic for these songs and they must be performed even if he doesn't relate to them anymore. Maybe these other performers have found a better middle ground, but it's not as if there were not a legitimate dilemma. If you think about it, a 70 year old Mick Jagger prowling around the stage like he's the hot young wolf is kind of an absurd and pitiful figure. If any of us engaged in the same sort of age inappropriate behavior we would be pilloried. It's not that you should fold up and die or surrender life when you get old, but at minimum you should have learned something. Mick Jagger trying to perform "Satisfaction" the way he did when he was 25 shows us he's gained what exactly?

"Hound Dog" is a perfect example of the dilemma Elvis as the first rocker to maintain a career in the mainstream faced. Elvis initially added the song as a burlesque, a joke, a bit of on stage fun. His outrageous performance on the Milton Berle Show, the performance of a young iconoclast, made sense for a guy who's making his mark by tearing up the system that previously had shut him out. It also demanded a record. The Steve Allen incident added another layer- anger. That force of nature that's on record is a large result of that anger. So what you have is a number added to the show as a bit of fun, a bit of outlandish farce and made into a record very much the sign post of one moment in the singer's life. The record performance is immortalized and frozen in time. (By that I don't mean bound by time, but the same forever and ever.) The singer is very clearly not. So it's a dilemma you have an iconic record and you have a singer who no longer has the power to deliver that song the way he did when he was 21. But it must be performed. Did Elvis want to be 70 years old and still swinging his hips to "Hound Dog" or did he see that as an indignant fate? It's a very important question and it's one that's too often ignored. An important element in the later Elvis' show- and Elvis himself mentioned this in his relatively few press conferences- was to demonstrate that he was not the same man he was in 1956. He had grown, he had learned, he had changed. Maybe sometimes your audience has to move with you.

I interviewed Billy Vera awhile back and he made an interesting comment to me. He said that the 1950s rockers at least wanted to grow up while the '60s rockers acted as if you could stay young forever. I think Elvis' later show, for all its imperfections, was a reflection of that desire, the idea that you couldn't, or more importantly, shouldn't rock forever. In the rock music choices that Elvis made in the 1970s you can at least see that these lyrics relate to a middle aged man. You still get horny. You still have a past, and the country is still full of possibilities as reflected in Berry's "Promised Land." But how many 40-year-olds feel comfortable asking to be someone's teddy bear?

Now this is not to excuse the fact that Elvis, for whatever reason, had a relatively short attention span. He constantly needed new input and new challenges to perform at his peak. Of course, this is another argument against some of the old songs. What did "Don't Be Cruel" have new to offer Elvis?

On some of the tracks, though, other types of context are extremely relevant. In a show that Elvis has decided- again for better or worse- to make about sensory overload, what role does a song like "In the Ghetto" play? And when Elvis is singing 20 songs a night does he really want to tear up his voice with "If I Can Dream?"

The song listing thing is made too much of anyway. He kept the lineup because it worked and there's something like 200 songs that were performed live between 1969 and 1977. That's a big catalog. The intent was not for folks to listen to 100 or 200 shows. If you listened to the half dozen or so (save EIC) that Elvis released in that time, complaints are few.


fantastic post LTB, I like your way of thinking .......

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:52 pm

A. C. van Kuijk wrote:
GuitarKing wrote:I'm not really judging this rehearsal performance...

Why do so many fans have problems to judge the King? I am an adult and sane person and so I consider myself able to judge what I hear and see. And if a performance is lackluster it is what it is. Unfortunately Elvis sang a lot of songs that way....


Yes he did. Have not heard the rehearsal yet but I am glad the tape is out and I get a chanche to hear it. If it turns out to be lackluster: so be it. Other than on stage he had every right to be lackluster. It was a rehearsal in the first place and he did not have to give it all. Apart from that this was not intented for release anyway so who could blame him for not giving 100%? Of course, concerts performed lackluster are another chapter. People getting only 40% effort for their hard earned money is what we see a lot, especially in the final years. For that is no excuse.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:52 pm

Mike Eder wrote:I look forward to the FTD. As for "My Babe" the 1969 versions are better, but the live version I heard on the Command Performance boot LP is nothing to be ashamed of and I am pretty certain it will be the same live version on the FTD here.



FTD and Command Performance version is not the same.
Lp version is much shorter and from a concert....not rehersal.

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:09 pm

KingElvis wrote:
Mike Eder wrote:I look forward to the FTD. As for "My Babe" the 1969 versions are better, but the live version I heard on the Command Performance boot LP is nothing to be ashamed of and I am pretty certain it will be the same live version on the FTD here.



FTD and Command Performance version is not the same.
Lp version is much shorter and from a concert....not rehersal.

Ah I hadn't looked at the tracklist yet. I mistakenly thought both versions were on it. :oops:

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:39 pm

So is the sound quality of the concert better than the old boot?

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:37 pm

I have just received the new FTD's and I put on the concert CD. Is this a reel to reel recording? It sure sounds so to me. I was expecting another boring soundboard, but this really sounds great, and not least Elvis in top form! So far.... now final on Trilogy and this was a big surprise, to me at least. Great sound, great concert and Elvis in great voice. At the first run I noticed both What Now My Love and My Way as standout performances. This one I'll have to run again!.....

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:08 am

bajo wrote:I have just received the new FTD's and I put on the concert CD. Is this a reel to reel recording? It sure sounds so to me. I was expecting another boring soundboard, but this really sounds great, and not least Elvis in top form! So far.... now final on Trilogy and this was a big surprise, to me at least. Great sound, great concert and Elvis in great voice. At the first run I noticed both What Now My Love and My Way as standout performances. This one I'll have to run again!.....



Yes it is. The boot sounds pretty good but they said this would sound better. From what you have said, maybe it does. :D

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:21 am

bajo wrote:I have just received the new FTD's and I put on the concert CD. Is this a reel to reel recording? It sure sounds so to me. I was expecting another boring soundboard, but this really sounds great, and not least Elvis in top form! So far.... now final on Trilogy and this was a big surprise, to me at least. Great sound, great concert and Elvis in great voice. At the first run I noticed both What Now My Love and My Way as standout performances. This one I'll have to run again!.....

That's great!!I look forward to hearing it 72' style

Re: 3000 South Paridise Road

Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:34 pm

Why is the 2001 theme not on the first disc of 3000 south paradise road? It is on the bootleg release!